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Review by bbalasa See Profile

  • Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
  • Cost Contract price not specified.
Nothing
Dishonest about business practice
Stay away.
Web-site:
Ease of Installation:
Call Quality:
Reliability:
Tech Support:
Value for money:

Prior to signing up, i had a lengthy chat with Support - asking everything about the International calls. It seemed ok to me and i decided to give it a try. Created account, logged in, paid $25 (and being Canadian, the HST also). Configured my device (CISCO 122) and tried my cell. Everything looked ok.

Few hours later, my wife tried to call her parents in Romania - the reason we got this service in the first place. Busy tone. And again. And again.

Contacted the live chat support - SURPRISE ! If you want international calls, they require PHOTO ID to be sent to the via email. The "Security" department will review and decide if i am allowed to make the calls or not !

There was no mention of this "little requirement" before signing up or before taking my money ! And no written info on any page on their website that i have read !

I asked for my account to be closed immediately and my money refunded - it took them 30 seconds to get the money, should take 30 seconds to refund ! Wrong: first, we open a ticket to ask you if you really want to close the account. After you confirm, we will refund - just not right now. When ? Remains to be seen.

Bottom line: Dishonest business practice and privacy invaders. Credit card info and confirmation of payments should have provided enough information about me, without the need for a photo attached and information about photo id. I guess is hard to sell or still IDs with only one piece, and no photo. Definitely easier with two pieces and one photo ! And the cherry on top - no mention of this requirement until after you paid !

member for 10.2 years, 5 visits, last login: 8.9 years ago
updated 10.2 years ago

PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

Perhaps poorly handled but still a legitimate issue.

This may have been handled poorly on their part, but it is not unusual to have such measures.

Nor should you object to the verification which is as much to protect the customer as to protect the company.

I do agree they should have discussed this with you in your chat session.

-----

This is posted on their website:

Please note that for security reasons, some destinations are locked by default for new accounts.

In order to provide you a full access to all international destinations, our security department requires verification of your ID. This can be provided as a scan of an ID card (full color and high resolution image) matching the address you have provided on file. Feel free to black out any confidential information that does not belong to the verification process. Please submit this information by opening a support ticket.

This is a one time verification only. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Destinations that are locked:

Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Anguilla, Armenia, Australia, Australia Territories, Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Belarus, Benin, Bhutan, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Botswana, Brunei, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Comoros, Comoros, Congo, Cook Islands, Croatia, Cuba, Dem. Rep. of Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Falkland Islands, Faroe Islands, Fiji, French Guiana, French Polynesia, Gabon, Gambia, Georgia, Ghana, Gibraltar, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Guyana, Honduras, Hungary, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Latvia, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Lithuania, Macau, Macedonia, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Mauritius Island, Micronesia, Moldova, Monaco, Mongolia, Montserrat, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Nauru, New Caledonia, Niger, Nigeria, Niue Island, North Korea, Oman, Papua New Guinea, Reunion Island, Romania, Russia, Rwanda, Sao Tome & Principe, Senegal, Serbia, Sierra Leone, Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, Sri Lanka, St. Helena, St. Lucia, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Syria, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Togo, Tokelau, Tonga, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Tuvalu, Uganda, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Wallis & Futuna, Yemen (Arab Republic), Zambia and Zimbabwe.

»www.voip.ms/m/riskyexpla ··· tion.php

This type of fraud prevention measure is common for VoIP companies, which are far more subject to fraud than your local phone company which physically knows where you live.
PX Eliezer1

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

By the way....

Here is what MartinM of the Voip.MS company said several years ago on this same issue, fraud is just as much of an issue now as it was then:

»Re: Voip.ms and international calling

suppafly
Premium Member
join:2009-11-27
97000

1 edit

suppafly

Premium Member

Reply

Hello

This requirement in order to unlock all the destinations (and having all payment options enabled) is documented both inside the customer portal and also in our wiki.

»wiki.voip.ms/article/Unl ··· inations

I apologize if it was a deal breaker for you however all VoIP providers incur into losses due to accounts that are opened and may be used to send payments from many different credit cards. This one time verification only needed to confirm that your name and address match what is on the signup form, the other confidential information can be blanked out.

Regarding the requirement to ask for the ID to unlock destinations, it is only required if the customer wants to have credit card and paypal payments enabled too. If the customer funds his account via Bank Wire or Western Union then we do not request any documentation to unlock all their termination countries.

Just hoping to clear this up for all the readers, so it can be seen that this is not a secret requirement, and is documented extensively and with screenshots in our pages. Limiting our potential losses due to security risks allows us to pass on the savings to all customers, a quick example is our recent lowering of the USA and Canada termination rates for all our customers.

Thank you,
bbalasa
join:2013-12-14
Mississauga, ON

bbalasa

Member

Re: Reply

said by suppafly:

I apologize if it was a deal breaker for you however all VoIP providers incur into losses due to accounts that are opened and may be used to send payments from many different credit cards. This one time verification only needed to confirm that your name and address match what is on the signup form, the other confidential information can be blanked out.

I doubt this is true - you had no problem charging the card, without any verification. And getting the money...
I am using another provider for more than three years - never asked for photo id, ever.

I also got a reply on the ticket - that has nothing to do with what i asked:

Please note that it is not mandatory to send an ID to unlock the additional International destinations (which include Romania), we can unlock them allowing payments via Western Union and Bank Wire for your account. If you would like to proceed with this option let us know, as well advise if you have any additional question. Thanks.

__
Alex Lopez
VoIP.ms Customer Service

1. In the ticket, i asked for account closure and immediate refund, not for alternate ways for you to hold my money without any reason.

2. If you expect that as a Canadian citizen, providing you a Canadian credit card and address i will pay via Western Union, i think you are at least dreaming. None of the Canadian companies (or even US for what matters) asked for a photo ID to be on file. For the purpose of just dialing an international number, from Canada, i think that the credit card should be enough.

Since you are so active on this forum, maybe you will, this time close the account and refund instead of delaying more.
Mango
Use DMZ and you get a kick in the dick.
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
www.toao.net

1 recommendation

Mango

Premium Member

Re: Reply

said by bbalasa:

I doubt this is true - you had no problem charging the card, without any verification. And getting the money...

Unfortunately, Peter is correct. Fraud in this industry is rampant, and many of the service providers that the members here use have this exact same policy. I realize that customers like you and me who don't want to commit fraud just want a home phone. But one fraudulent transaction can wipe out the profits of hundreds of legitimate customers. (A VoIP.ms rep once mentioned their record was US $10,000 in ten hours.)

I don't disagree with you that it's inconvenient, but I also don't see the service providers changing their policies any time soon. Either we sometimes have to jump through hoops to open an account, or everyone's prices go up to cover the cost of fraud - and people like that even less.
bbalasa
join:2013-12-14
Mississauga, ON

bbalasa

Member

Re: Reply

Mango, what you say makes sense, if i were to believe what they are saying. But facts are:
- I am using VoipGo (now Axsit) for more than three years - their international rates as well as unlimited Canada / US were lower three years ago that Voip.Ms today's lower rates. Axsit Romanian rates are for example $0.019 CAD / min - per second billing, not $ 0.024 US / second billed in 6 sec. increment).
- The only reason i tried this service was international calls. Axsit international, at times (during international holidays mostly) can be difficult to use (calls can be difficult). Never calls to Canada or US.
- I have also tried Vonage (a little older in the business that Voip.ms). Never asked about photo id.
- I had CallSelect as cell phone LD provider (and also as LD provider for home phone, some years ago when i had Bell service) - never asked about photo id.
- I have sent a MagicJack device in Romania (and still paying the account) - never asked about photo id.

Not to mention that any of the well respected merchants that i am dealing on a daily basis have never asked about photo id. And i bought items sometimes a little more expensive than $2000.

If what their rep said:

11:32:44 AM [Fred] But if you upload the ID I can try to expedite the process.
11:33:19 AM [Fred] The ID only needs to show your picture, name and a valid expiration date. All other information can be blacked out.

I do not believe security is what they have in mind. Somebody trying to cheat, will know that much to fake an ID with an imaginary picture and expiry date, since all the other data can be blanked out.

Therefore, considering all of the above, please allow me to have serious doubts about their reasons.
nitzan
Premium Member
join:2008-02-27

nitzan to Mango

Premium Member

to Mango
said by Mango:

Fraud in this industry is rampant, and many of the service providers that the members here use have this exact same policy.

While I agree that fraud is a problem - there are other ways to deal with it - we for example almost never ask for a photo ID - the only reason we would is when other means are exhausted and we're pretty certain it is actually fraud - would never ask for ID from a user that seems legit. I'd be glad to share my insight with Martin or someone else from Voip.MS privately if they're interested.

ymhee_bcex
Premium Member
join:2006-04-21
Tarzana, CA
·AT&T Wireless Br..

ymhee_bcex to Mango

Premium Member

to Mango
Just realized that I never gave CallWithUs my address. I paid with Google Checkout or Paypal. And before that, I never gave Betamax my address, either.

So, apparently, there are ways to run prepaid VSP business without the need for address; let alone picture ID.
bbalasa
join:2013-12-14
Mississauga, ON

bbalasa to suppafly

Member

to suppafly
No online merchant should ever have any of your photo ids on file. Period. Anything else is a huge risk.
Mango
Use DMZ and you get a kick in the dick.
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
www.toao.net

Mango

Premium Member

You'll receive your refund.

I have every expectation that you'll receive your refund very soon. I'm sorry you decided not to continue to use VoIP.ms; they are an excellent service provider.
bbalasa
join:2013-12-14
Mississauga, ON

1 edit

bbalasa

Member

Re: You'll receive your refund.

said by Mango:

excellent service provider

From my point of view, an excellent service provider is upfront with all the information. Also, an excellent service provider will actually provide the service after gets your money or promptly refunds your money.
Not the case here. I am happy for you that your experience is different - good luck in the future too.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

1 edit

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

Re: You'll receive your refund.

Unfortunately you do not comprehend the fraud issues involved, which are particularly high in the VoIP calling market to some countries.

Every VoIP provider uses some sort of security screens, or else they end up going out of business.

A basic example:

Harry steals Joe's credit card info, or buys it for a few dollars on a website on the "dark web" that exists for this very purpose. It's big business.

Harry pretends to be Joe, and uses Joe's info and credit card number to sign up for VoIP service.

(Meanwhile, Joe has no idea that his info was stolen. Maybe it was at a gas station, maybe his computer was hacked, maybe one of a dozen other ways.)

Harry makes lots of overseas calls to Burkina Faso.

Joe eventually notices unauthorized use of his credit card, and alerts the bank.

The bank in turn takes the money BACK from the VoIP company, and the charges are removed from Joe's credit card.

The crook Harry [who pretended to be Joe] has disappeared until the next time, and the VoIP company ends up having provided services for free.

SO---Voip.MS is trying not only to protect themselves, but ALSO to protect the "Joes" of this world. Even you.

And---You'll say "why doesn't this same thing happen with Amazon?" But Amazon is DELIVERING something to you at some sort of physical address. That is NOT the case with a VoIP provider.

Finally---Your old VoIP provider may have verified you by another method. Or they may have a somewhat different list of high-risk countries. Or they may just be less diligent than Voip.MS which is indeed a good company.

Stay safe.
bbalasa
join:2013-12-14
Mississauga, ON

bbalasa

Member

Re: You'll receive your refund.

I am a software engineer, with some years of experience - that is why i do know that what they request does not prevent fraud in any way.

11:32:44 AM [Fred] But if you upload the ID I can try to expedite the process.
11:33:19 AM [Fred] The ID only needs to show your picture, name and a valid expiration date. All other information can be blacked out.

If all other data is blanked, how can you confirm that ID as being mine ?

For more details, please refer to my answer to Mango's comment.

And i do stay safe - not sharing info that needs to remain private. As in photo id uploaded over email to a not well known and unsure company / location.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

Re: You'll receive your refund.

This issue has been discussed to death on this forum.

For example:
»[Voip.ms] VOIP.MS selectively requires ID card or Passport scans at signup

See ya.
bbalasa
join:2013-12-14
Mississauga, ON

1 edit

bbalasa

Member

To clarify the fraud issues involved - not true and misleading

1. Email is notoriously one of the most insecure meanings of communication in existence today.
2. A photo ID sent over email will be accurate and correct if it is sent by an honest person, not a fraudster. Anybody else will know how to fake a scan of a real ID with any picture and expiry date in the world.
3. If what the customer service rep said is true:
11:32:44 AM [Fred] But if you upload the ID I can try to expedite the process.
11:33:19 AM [Fred] The ID only needs to show your picture, name and a valid expiration date. All other information can be blacked out.
There is no way this can be considered a real or in any way shape or form valid. How can Voip.ms validate this id based on a photo, name and expiry date ? If i provide you with my passport (valid photo ID) do they have access to the Government database to validate ? If the answer is yes, then we have bigger issues. If the answer is no, then there is no way that can ensure that i am whom i said i am. (see previous points).
4. If it were to believe their poor excuse with security concerns, seems strange to me that you can be a fraudster and charge as much as you want on the credit card and spend the whole amount on US / Canada calls - no verification required to take your money.

A golden rule in business says that if you suspect something fishy, you verify first and charge after, not charge first and verify later. By the time you verify, the credit card would have been charged anyway, a fraudulent transaction registered and consumed. That is why you use verified by Visa feature.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

Re: To clarify the fraud issues involved - not true and misleading

Methinks you doth protest too much.

And again:
»[Voip.ms] VOIP.MS selectively requires ID card or Passport scans at signup
bbalasa
join:2013-12-14
Mississauga, ON

bbalasa

Member

Re: To clarify the fraud issues involved - not true and misleading

Thanks for pointing me to a the post you had the same comments. One small difference - that was about an account created via VPN. This was not the case (and btw: somebody there mentioned identity theft issues too).
And yes, i protest - i was taken some money and did not receive the service. In order to actually receive what i paid for, i am asked to allow an intrusion in my personal space and expose myself with very private data in a very insecure way, to a company i know mostly nothing about. And all the explanations (reasons) provided for this have no real base.
You are a happy customer (or employee ?!) - good for you. It is not for me to judge or comment on your happiness.
I am not happy and don't want this type of abuse to become the accepted normal.

cb14
join:2013-02-04
Miami Beach, FL

cb14

Member

Re: To clarify the fraud issues involved - not true and misleading

I agree with you that the ID verification process is somewhat absurd.
And it is certainly true that the company should warn customers that a verification process can be lengthy and complex. In that sense, they are themselves to blame for this.
But it should not bring down their overall rating. To reduce the rating of their web site and customer service is justified in your case. The rest is not.
bbalasa
join:2013-12-14
Mississauga, ON

bbalasa

Member

Re: To clarify the fraud issues involved - not true and misleading

Hi cb14,
the reason i reduced the rating for the remaining categories are:
1. Ease of Installation (50%) - It was easy enough to set up my ATA device and see it registering with Voip.ms however, i cannot comment if the calls would have worked or not since i could not make any calls.
2. Call Quality (0)- from my point of view, since i could not use the call, the quality is 0.
3. Reliability (0). Same as above.
4. Tech Support (0):
- During the first chat i had with their tech support, for more than 20 minutes, before signing up, i have asked about everything related to international destinations, including the possibility of acquiring an DID in the country i was interested in. It was never mentioned to me even once the photo ID issue. That shows me either dishonesty on the support person side or no knowledge in this area.
- Second chat, finding that i cannot make the call i wanted, showed even less knowledge in the area: i was told that i must upload the id if i want the destinations unlocked. Couple of hours later, in the ticked "required" for the account closure and refund (that i have not seen yet), somebody states:
"Please note that it is not mandatory to send an ID to unlock the additional International destinations (which include Romania), we can unlock them allowing payments via Western Union and Bank Wire for your account."
- Although i have asked repeatedly for account closure and refund, nothing has been done in that direction and nothing is being done as we speak. I still can see the full amount available in their admin interface, therefore no attempts have been done to close / refund as i have asked.
Part of the customer support is also the inconvenient time when a customer decides it does not need / want your service anymore and resolve that issue in a timely manner, especially when you are withholding funds with no justification. I have already unregistered my device from their server.
Iscream
Premium Member
join:2009-02-17
New York, NY

3 recommendations

Iscream

Premium Member

You're soo freaken wrong about security and being upfront with fraudsters!

Take my free advice - stay away from ANY VoIP provider.

You have NO idea of how this service works therefore - leave the VoIP providers alone!
Your only place is with legacy land-line and/or cellular provider - who, by the way, will ALWAYS ask your social security and all other details.

Just in case - Romanian fraud takes the #1 place among all other VoIP fraudsters today!
MartinM
VoIP.ms
Premium Member
join:2008-07-21

MartinM

Premium Member

VoIP.ms cares about its current user base

We have a few countries that are locked due to them constantly being targeted for fraud, the number #1 fraud destination unfortunately is Romania. Only number 1 priority is our current user base. They trust our service and in exchange it's our responsibility to ensure that their VoIP service will last for all the time they remain with us.

When you login to the portal, the home page displays your options and current settings and display "Some Countries locked", and has a link to unlock them. It's a fairly easy process.

While I can certainly understand the frustration, it's really not personal against you. We have hundreds of happy customers dialling to Romania as I am typing this.

A simple private message to my DSLR account would have been faster than your review, and I would have enabled your account in a few seconds.

We do not need to hold your money hostage, the process is automatic for deposits, but requires a manual refund. The reason the staff opens a ticket to confirm you want to close the account is for "Social Engineering" protection for your own protection. So that someone doesn't pretend to be you and come on chat to ask things on your behalf, like it happened to many companies in the past, such as password reset with Apple Inc.

All of this seems complicated at first glance but it was simply just a simple one time verification process for everything on your new account to be unlocked.

You're obviously a legitimate customer, and I feel sorry that this security measure made you feel this way. It was meant to make our customer base feel more secure, not the contrary. Your credit card payment has already been refunded. I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavours and I hope your future VoIP provider brings you the experience you're looking forward to.

Best regards,
wideglide36
join:2003-11-08
Altoona, PA

wideglide36

Member

Re: VoIP.ms cares about its current user base

Excellent professional response Martin.

Always taking the high road...........

ymhee_bcex
Premium Member
join:2006-04-21
Tarzana, CA
·AT&T Wireless Br..

ymhee_bcex

Premium Member

Surprisingly, I am with OP on this

Generally, my level of skepticism with people that say "Good: Nothing" in the review before even using the service is very high.

However, this is how I see it:
I give Voip.MS money. That is, I trust that Voip.MS will not misuse my money. I don't see any risk on Voip.ms part.

I had similar situation when I was setting up an account for a cousin in Latvia. Apparently, my US-based IP address triggered some alert and Voip.ms requested similar documentation to what OP is describing. And it was also a deal-breaker for my cousin.

The fraud discussion just doesn't seem relevant! Just stop providing service beyond what's prepaid - and you won't lose a penny. I am, on the other hand, risking that you go out of business, and I will lose the money that I prepaid - and yet you are asking me for some verification! Doesn't make any sense, and it does feel insulting - as well as insulting my intelligence.

That said, I have another cousin who uses Voip.MS and loves it. The sound quality, support excellence, configuration flexibility are absolutely the best! So, "Good: Nothing" grade is ridiculous - especially by somebody who never used the service!

Fibille
@ukfast.net

Fibille

Anon

Re: Surprisingly, I am with OP on this

said by ymhee_bcex:

The fraud discussion just doesn't seem relevant! Just stop providing service beyond what's prepaid - and you won't lose a penny

I like it. Do not allow anybody to put in more than x dollars in 24 hours without the ID check. As long as they stay under the limit or have provided the ID, let them call wherever they want.
Iscream
Premium Member
join:2009-02-17
New York, NY

2 edits

1 recommendation

Iscream to ymhee_bcex

Premium Member

to ymhee_bcex

Re: Re: Surprisingly, I am NOT

Sadly enough, but you're definitely NOT "ymhee_bcex" (Russian for "smarter than all others"). Those who're _smarter_ - study the subject first, then show up their opinion... or not tell it at all.

Unfortunately, the life of service providers or those who sell "negligible goods or service" is much different than the life of Target's execs who won't loose a penny for their crime of not complying with security standards.

For you knowledge - for just a $1 transaction (well, in case of Voip.ms - $25, but that doesn't change the story) which is _DECLARED_ as fraudulent (because of stolen card or just because a "user" wanted so or because bank advised a card holder to do so) - so for just one small transaction - a provider IS PENALIZED by $25 charge-back fee - on top of money already spent by a fraudster.

There is NO "safe" amount of money allowed a day. Not even for one hour! The charge-backs today are coming as soon as within 7 days and span back in past for as long as 6 months!

For you, the "smart one" - for a "safe" Romanian fraud which pretended to be a legit customer who made "just" 4 transactions within a month... each transaction of $5 (an example, Callcentric allows $5 transactions) - "only" $20/mo... which could last 4 or 5 months until real card holder discovered that card is "leaking" - that will be REVERSED and CHARGED-BACK for all those 5 months! Resulting in $100 lost on pure funds spent by the fraudster PLUS 4 penalties a month during 5 months = 20 charge-back fees EACH of $25! Total loss = $100 + $500 = $600.

Unfortunately, I personally CANNOT wish it to my enemies! Nor to our competitors.

A "safe" fraud of "small amounts" slowly spent over multiple accounts of several providers has become one of most vicious nightmares of service providers. The labor in Romania is cheap (same in China, South Africa, Palestine, etc) therefore creating 100 or even 1000s accounts all "funded" by small charges from stolen credit cards - may run undetected during long times thus causing the most devastating damage to service providers who are facing unavoidable charge-back fees imposed by banks (for banks - this is a REAL and HUGE profit center; one of "sources" of 4.1% of economical growth reported today by administration; therefore banks are doing all in their power to convince card holders to declare legitimate charges as "fraudulent" whenever a card is lost or stolen or just whenever a card-holder has a bad mood toward a merchant).

It appears as you're not aware that if a provider went broke (as you wrote about it) while "leaving" your few bucks on their account - you're ENTITLED to call your card issuing bank and telling them to refund (charge-back) your transaction. You ARE PROTECTED, but the service provider - NOT AT ALL. The service provider is always in charge and is the ONLY ONE who suffers from credit card crimes. Why are people so blind to not see that?

A Target store network won't suffer any losses from the [PCI's non compliance] crime made by their "responsible" employees, but service providers will pay by even more of their blood spilled by banks and credit networks (as well as by Pay Pal) while suffering consequences of this fraud. All because "smart" people don't understand how the credit card industry works.

And last - please don't talk here about "merchants knowing their risks and their business..."... otherwise one day you'll wake up to the ONLY AT&T or at&t (already going there) mighty service provider of everything...

ymhee_bcex
Premium Member
join:2006-04-21
Tarzana, CA
·AT&T Wireless Br..

ymhee_bcex

Premium Member

Re: Re: Surprisingly, I am NOT

said by Iscream:

Those who're _smarter_ - study the subject first, then show up their opinion... or not tell it at all.
...
For you knowledge ...

For you, the "smart one" ...

It appears as you're not aware ... Why are people so blind to not see that?
...
All because "smart" people don't understand how the credit card industry works.

And last - please don't talk here about "merchants knowing their risks and their business..."...

Also
said by Iscream:

You're soo freaken wrong about security...

You have NO idea of how this service works

Thank you for sharing your opinion with us peons. While I may even agree with some of what you are saying, your nick ("I scream") tells more about you than mine ever will. And I am not interested in engaging in that type of discussion.

That will be my only response.
Iscream
Premium Member
join:2009-02-17
New York, NY

2 edits

1 recommendation

Iscream

Premium Member

Re: Re: Surprisingly, I am NOT

Yes, that's right - my nick, "Iscream" was chosen exactly because of this reason - because I'm not silent therefore "I scream" when I see wrongdoings. It (the nick) surely tells about myself - it has been explained to these boards in past.

Therefore when I see [the above] wrongdoings, gross negligence, lack of understanding, blind "voting" - all while appealing to loud "peons" (as you like to say it) - then _I_scream_ - yes, I do. This totally groundless (in both - description and ratings) review and following thread have deeply frustrated myself by its clear appeal to attack a provider who does all in their efforts to effectively service extremely competitive marketing niche and, despite it targeted our competitor - I felt accused in the same, because here (in this niche) we're in the same boat as the competitor affected by the undue review while the same [fraud] is targeting us as well. And unlike others - I don't want to, at one day, wake up to a centrally controlled, manipulated and monopolized reality, both - economically and politically.

P.S. I've "appealed" to your nick because of the picture you have there - which is both forever in my childhood's heart and because I've been impressed by your many other posts on those boards.
javamarket
join:2011-05-20

javamarket

Member

I'll throw in 2 cents, why not

I have a long tenure in the technology space and hold multiple degrees therein. I work hard at fighting back sarcasm as it is a tool for the week minded. I often find myself failing at the latter. With that disclaimer:

I've had my difficulties with VoIP.ms over the years I have (and continued to) use(d) them. These difficulties have ordinarily been canned answers to technical problems that were never properly vetted or handled by individuals with a skill set commensurate with the issue. Honestly this has increased over time as VoIP.ms has grown, it has not gotten better.

That said, however, in my experience I have not found another VoIP provider that is comparable to the overall experience with VoIP.ms most especially when viewed from a cost / service basis. In addition, a firm not only has a right to try to protect itself from fraud, but an obligation or else it can find itself complicit to the actions.

In respect to this specific event, I believe VoIP.ms goes not only to reasonable but I assert great lengths to make it known that some destinations of telephone traffic are of a higher risk, and (pay attention now) ... new accounts may have these blocked by default. If this causes you a point of frustration, the fault is your own.

When you make a CC purchase or and ACH purchase often these are straight through processes. Refunds are manual. This explains why it takes moments to accept your money and "time" to return it.
inbonobo
join:2001-12-06
North York, ON

inbonobo

Member

Re: I'll throw in 2 cents, why not

I don't doubt voip.ms is a great company. It seems to me that the OP was complaining about is the security check which seems much like "security theater" (look it up on Wikipedia) and the possible ethnic profiling. Nobody doubts that fraud is rampant, the question is to what extent the existing "security measures" protect the provider from fraud more than annoying legitimate customers.

For similar ethnic profiling / stupid security, consider the following goo gl urls: UoIaoj and IAJVPo (these are just the first that come to mind).

Security measures that have no benefit other than delay should be avoided, as they reflect poorly on those who use them: ZNSWcO

(it's unclear to me what's the link policy here so I used the google shortener)