Review by newf 
UPDATED: 360 days ago
member for 1 year, 70 visits, last login: 346 days ago
 Brampton,ON
 $37 per month (24 month contract)
 Bell Canada
 "None, so far."
 "See comments."
 "A waste of time and money."
| Pre Sales information:
Install Co-ordination:
Connection reliability:
Tech Support:
Services:
Value for money:
(ratings below consensus)
|
We called Bell, regarding our long distance plan, and were solicited for the Sympatico High Speed. We were told it was 7MB down, 4MB up and the cap wasn't mentioned. It wasn't until more than three weeks later we learned the up is a maximum of 1MB. I doubt this was an "honest mistake" as the lady, we were speaking with, told two of us the same thing and confirmed it. Also, when I informed the lady we didn't want the $10.00 "optional" services package, she attempted to give me the impression it was required.
The modem arrived, within a few days. We had a DSL connection but were unable to connect to the 'net. After more than an hour, support escalated and second level decided the problem was a defective modem. The replacement arrived, within a few days, and we, still, had a DSL connection but were, still, unable to connect to the 'net. Calls to support were long and fruitless until the fourth or fifth attempt, when a supervisor decided they'd send a technician to our residence. I pointed out that, since we had the DSL connection, it was unlikely the problem was at our residence but he insisted; an appointment was made, for the following day, during a five hour window. When the technician did not arrive, I called support and was told another appointment would have to be made. I asked to speak with a manager and was transferred. I asked for the number of the executive office and was given a number which, later, proved to be the "general manager's support line"; not the executive office. This lady asked for an opportunity to rectify the situation and, again, insisted on sending a technician to the house, even though I, again, told her the problem was very unlikely to be here. Another appointment was made, for the following day.
The following day, the technician arrived. After spending three hours, here, he was unable to connect, to the 'net, even using his own laptop and a new modem. At 4:30 PM, on the Fri. of the Labour Day weekend, after having been on the phone, for more than an hour and a half, with support, the test centre and his supervisor, he informed me that the problem was "a defective port at the central office". He, also, informed me that he was not allowed into the central office but a "ticket", to have the problem corrected, had been entered. Since it was a long weekend, I didn't expect the problem to be corrected until the following Tue. When it wasn't, I called support and was told, by the fellow I spoke with, that he'd look into it and call me back, within an hour or so. That was the last I heard from him.
Again, several calls, to support, were long and fruitless until the Fri., when a girl I was speaking with, asked me to hold for two minutes and left me listening to the most awful music for three quarters of an hour, when I hung up, called back and asked for a manager. The fellow I was, finally, put through to, apparently, made one call and I had a connection to the 'net; three weeks after receiving the modem.
Later that evening, I noticed my 7MB download speed didn't appear to be much better than my 1MB cable connection download speed so I did a few tests and all were under 1MB. I called support and was told I'd been "set up on the wrong profile" and that this would be corrected within 24 to 48 hours. The following Mon., I checked and the speed was, now, almost 3MB. I called support and was told this would be corrected within 24 hours; it hasn't.
During all of this, almost thirty calls have been made and I've spoken with more than two dozen people, at Bell Sympatico; five of whom weren't worse than useless. Several of the techs I spoke with had me right clicking on my LAN connection and trying to click on "Properties", even though I'd told them it was a wireless connection and, while my computer has a NIC, it's disabled. The last fellow that subjected me to this told me I'd have to trust him and he knew what he was doing. That same fellow told me he'd discussed the problem I was having, connecting a second computer, with his supervisor, and they'd determined the problem was my "operating system" and I'd have to take it to a shop, to have it repaired. Neither he nor his supervisor would explain why I had no difficulty with the wireless cable connection nor why the other computer, with the same operating system, had no problem with the wireless Bell connection. When I called back, the following day, the young lady had me disable security and I was able to connect. It didn't occur to me, 'til after she'd hung up , that all of my neighbours are, now, able to connect, as well.
I've been forced to answer the same, useless, questions, almost, every time I've called and been forced to perform the same, useless, procedures. I have a news flash, for anyone from Bell Sympatico support, the answers don't change, if it didn't work the first three times, it likely won't work this time either and taking a minute or two to read the tickets, rather than subjecting your customers to this sort of treatment, would go a long way to improving the perception that you're a bunch of morons. I've been left on hold, for up to three quarters of hour, numerous times, been hun...sorry, I meant "accidentally disconnected" several times, subjected to the worst customer service I've ever encountered and had messages left on the "general manager's support line", "Bell Sympatico supervisor desk" and "executive care" lines ignored.
To-day, I spoke with a fellow, in billing, at great length and in consuming detail, in an effort to get this resolved. I informed him that, when I spoke with the manager, at the end of the second week, she had offered me three months of free service, followed by three months at $19.99. Also, that, when I spoke with customer service, a week after that, the fellow I spoke with was to have an additional three months free service authorized. The fellow I was speaking with confirmed that those notes were on the account. I, then, advised him that, in addition to six months free service, followed by three months at $19.99, I wanted either the speeds I had been promised or to be charged for the speeds I was receiving; now about 3MB down and 500k up. I suggested that, since 5MB down/800k up with 100GB cap and 5MB down/800k up with unlimited cap were advertised for less than $20.00, $24.95 would be more than reasonable. He told me he agreed, would have to have this approved, by his supervisor, and would get back to me. Shortly afterwards, I received a call from a young lady who identified herself as a supervisor, then, informed me that I was only "eligible for 1MB", had been put on "the 6MB profile" and asking if I had confirmation numbers, for the customer service concessions I'd been offered. I asked if she'd spoken with the fellow I'd been talking with, earlier, and she told me she had. I asked her to clarify the situation, with him, and get back to me. She replied that she couldn't as she was "busy". I, then, told her that I'd had enough and she could either get the situation resolved or deal with my lawyer. Years ago, when a well known cable ISP was sued, it smartened them up, for awhile; perhaps, it'll work for Bell Sympatico, as well.
In the meantime, a few suggestions, for Bell Sympatico employees:
1) Don't ask how you can offer me excellent service; it's become obvious that you can't and your asking is like rubbing salt into an open wound.
2) Don't ask if you can help me with anything else; you haven't helped me with this and, again, your asking is like rubbing salt into an open wound.
3) Don't apologize; after the first two or three, they're, pretty much, meaningless.
4) Thank God for your job 'cause if you were doing what you're qualified for, you'd be down at the end of Yonge St., with a squeegee.
****** ADDED 9/12 1600 EST ******
I've just checked my speed and it's gone up almost 2Mbs. Still way under the 7MB, I was promised, but we're getting there.
****** ADDED 9/13 2355 EST ******
Earlier to-day, Bell Sympatico left a message asking that I call the business office with a reference number they gave.
I called and the fellow I spoke with claimed to have no idea what I was talking about. When I asked to be transferred to a manager, he decided he could help me.
Here's the Readers' Digest version of the hour and three quarters long conversation. He managed to find both notes where I'd been offered a three month concession and gave me a reference number confirming I'll receive six months of free service and three months at $19.95. It went downhill from there.
I repeated, for the umpteenth time, that I wanted either the 7MB down I'd been sold or to be charged for what I was receiving. At that point, he told me he'd done a "line test" and I was only "eligible for 1MB". A Bell Sympatico employee can correct me, if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that people in the business office aren't able to conduct line tests. In any case, he was unable to explain why, if that were the case, I've consistently gotten around 4MB, since the last time I bit...sorry, I meant "complained". I, finally, told him I'd had enough and he could either leave it to the Courts to decide what ought to be done or refer it to his manager and get back to me. He told me he was leaving, shortly, but would discuss it with his manager and get back to me to-morrow.
A couple of people have suggested that insisting on either getting what you're sold or on paying only for what you are getting is somehow wrong. Also, that, when you're screwed over, you should just tuck your tail between your legs and slink away. Personally, I can't understand how people like that are able to live with themselves. Do they not understand that it's that attitude that allows Bell Sympatico and others of their ilk to get away with treating people, as they do?
In any case, 5/800, which is a bit more than I'm getting, is less than $20.00 per month, with no cap. Bell Sympatico has a 60GB cap but isn't competitive. In the event they're unable or unwilling to provide me with the 7MB, they sold me, I think my offer to pay $24.95 per month, for what I'm now getting, is more than reasonable.
Here are my line stats and speed test results.
twdsm.attenuation_ds = 36.19;
twdsm.attenuation_us = 22.00;
twdsm.margin_ds = 18.00;
twdsm.margin_us = 15.00;
****** ADDED 9/14 1830 EST ******
The fellow I spoke with yesterday who told me he'd call back to-day didn't. Considering BS's performance to date, I'm not surprised. On the plus side, I'm now getting almost 5Mbs down.
My only concerns, at the moment, are wanting what I was sold and BS presumably expects me to pay for or being charged for what I'm getting. That and the continued unacceptable customer service.
I believe I've detailed the customer service issue sufficiently. Likewise the connection issue but I will just summarize that for emphasis.
1) I was solicited for and sold a package which was described as "seven megabytes down" and "four megabytes up".
2) I believe this is what BS refers to as the "Performance" package and understand it may not even be available.
3) I learned some three weeks later that the up could not be more than "one megabyte".
4) Initially I was set up on a one meg profile.
5) After complaining several times for more than a week my profile has been upgraded two or three times and is now at six megs.
6) I am now getting approximately five down and 600k up.
Having been unable to find anyone at BS, in a position to rectify the situation, with the brains God gave geese, after trying for more than a month, I'm sending the following e-mail message to President, Bell Residential Services:
***************************************************
I appreciate you're busy and this is not a matter you should even be aware of, much less involved in. Having attempted, though, to resolve a dispute, with your staff, for more than a month, and being unable to do so, even after speaking with more than two dozen of them, I thought it should be brought to your attention.
Rather than attempting to detail the situation here, I would ask you see the review, of Bell Sympatico, I've posted at "Broadband Reports" »Review of Bell Sympatico by newf
Any assistance you may be able to offer would be appreciated and I do apologize for imposing.
***************************************************
I will be pleasantly surprised if this accomplishes anything.
Over the weekend, I'll be compiling a list of other discussion boards, newsgroups, mailing lists et cetera where posting "The Sordid Saga of Bell Sympatico" would be appropriate. Any suggestions would be appreciated and anyone, as disgusted with BS as I am, who'd like to volunteer their assistance, welcomed. Please e-mail dymajywyqarupomo@tempomail.fr
****** ADDED 9/16 1730 EST ******
Yesterday, I received an IM from, I believe, one of "Don's team of firefighters". I responded that I'd prefer to keep my dealings with BS "on the record", offered to give him my "b1" number and requested permission to post the content of any IM's. To date, I haven't received a response to that. Before anyone comments that this is being done on his own time blah blah blah, I'm aware of that and am not complaining; just updating the situation. Again, I'll be, pleasantly, surprised if this accomplishes anything but, based on my experiences so far, am not expecting it will.
****** ADDED 9/17 2250 EST ******
Earlier to-day, I spoke with the member of "Don's team of firefighters", for a couple of hours, and it was a treat; I think my BP went up twice and then only a couple of points...much better than the near fatal conversations I've had with many BS employees. We left it that he was to discuss the situation with management and get back to me to-morrow. He's the third BS employee to tell me that but the first I'll be surprised if he doesn't.
****** ADDED 9/18 2359 EST ******
I didn't hear from the member of "Don's team of firefighters". Before anyone comments that this is being done on his own time blah blah blah, he was at a BS facility during the hours long telephone conversation we had and he's a support person so, AFAIC, he wasn't doing me a favour; just his job. At this point, I'm still not complaining as there may be a good reason for his not having gotten back to me as he said he would...even though he has my telephone number, two e-mail addresses and, initially, contacted me through the board. I can't imagine what it would be as he was on the board this evening but, always willing to give the benefit of the doubt, I'll wait another day before I admit I misjudged his character and write him off as just another BS'er.
****** ADDED 9/19 1800 EST ******
I just learned that the member of "Don's team of firefighters" did call last night at around 2000 EST. I've returned his call and left a message on voice mail.
****** ADDED 9/20 2100 EST ******
I finally managed to speak with the member of "Don's team of firefighters" and he tells me BS management would prefer to have the issue settled by third parties.
During our conversation, he brought up my canceling and I've made it as clear as I possibly can that I AM NOT CANCELING. He, also, brought up the three months reduced price and six months of free service. Again, I've made it as clear as I possibly can that THE THREE MONTHS REDUCED PRICE IS A BS PROMOTION WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUE at hand and THE SIX MONTHS OF FREE SERVICE ARE CUSTOMER SERVICE CONCESSIONS GIVEN BY BS IN PARTIAL COMPENSATION FOR MY WASTED TIME, THE INCONVENIENCE I'VE EXPERIENCED AND THE HORRENDOUS CUSTOMER SERVICE I'VE BEEN SUBJECTED TO in obtaining a connection to the 'net WHICH, AGAIN, HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUE at hand. In fact, THE CONCESSIONS WERE GIVEN BEFORE I WAS EVEN ABLE TO CONNECT TO THE 'NET.
He, also, gave me another version of what the price should be. The lady I spoke with, when we ordered the service, told me the price was $49.95, less $10.00 since I didn't want the "optional" services, less a $5.00 "bundle discount" for a total of $34.95. The fellow I spoke with tonight told me the price is $47.95 (he repeats this several times and the $49.95 figure isn't mentioned), the first lady I spoke with li...sorry, "made a mistake" and the $10.00 for the "optional" services isn't included in the price but I would get a $5.00 "contract discount" and the $5.00 "bundle discount" is OK for a total of $37.95. I'm not going to quibble over $3.00 but it's a nice example of the conflicting stories one gets when dealing with BS.
To summarize just the salient points:
1) BS solicited me for and sold me a seven meg service which I learned later there was no way they could provide as the only CO available to me isn't equipped for it
2) I'm receiving an average of fifty-seven per cent of the seven meg service they sold me
Since BS has chosen not to resolve the matter by either giving me what they sold me or accepting my offer to pay for what they gave me, I'm left with no alternative but to continue the "battle of attrition", as it's been called. To-night or to-morrow, I'll be sending an e-mail to a few of the larger media providers detailing my issue with BS and asking if they'd be interested in bringing BS' current questionable practices and their problems to the attention of the public. Over the weekend, I'll be drafting complaints to the CRTC, Council of Better Business Bureaus, Industry Canada (Competition Bureau), Ministry of Government Services (Consumer Protection Branch) and Ministry of Consumer and Commercial Relations. In the event the matter's unresolved within whatever time frame is established by taking the foregoing actions, I'll be instructing my lawyer to proceed.
The fellow I was speaking with asked me to have a look at their terms which I did...again. He's not a bad guy so I refrained from asking why, after BS being wrong about pretty much everything they've told me, he'd think I'd believe they were right about this. Their corporate counsel looks like a bright, intelligent young lady. I find it difficult to believe that after soliciting me with what I'm pretty sure amounted to a fraudulent misrepresentation of their service and selling me a service they couldn't possibly deliver, she'd want to go before a judge and argue I've received equitable consideration. Oh well, perhaps they're hoping the judge is a shareholder. 8-þ
****** ADDED 9/21 2350 EST ******
I've been in touch with one of those "larger media providers" I mentioned and their consumer advocate is supposed to be getting back to me on Tue. It'll be interesting to see if BS tries to justify charging people for seven of something when they're only giving them four or they just cover their faces and run, shouting "No comment! No comment!". I, also, want to see how they handle the question of selling a service that they couldn't, possibly, have provided.
****** ADDED 9/25 1110 EST ******
I guess, this afternoon, I'll find out if I'll be getting my "fifteen minutes of fame". In the meantime, I've sent the following e-mail to Michael Sabia.
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Approximately two months ago, Bell solicited and sold us a service we later learnt was not available, in our area.
Dealing with Bell, over the past several weeks, has been an absolute horror story and we have been unable to obtain any satisfaction in respect to this issue. I have received no response to an e-mail message sent to Kevin Crull more than a week ago.
At this point, I am speaking with a nationally televised consumer advocate and my lawyer. I have, as well, drafted complaints to the CRTC, Council of Better Business Bureaus, Industry Canada (Competition Bureau), Ministry of Government Services (Consumer Protection Branch) and Ministry of Consumer and Commercial Relations. Before committing to these actions, I am making one last appeal, to Bell, that this situation be rectified.
In the event you require detailed information, please see my review of Bell Sympatico at »/comment/63838
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****** ADDED 9/27 2240 EST ******
To-day, Kevin Crull's office called and left a message. It was too late to return the call, by the time I received it, but I'll give them a buzz to-morrow.
I won't speculate on why it would've taken almost two weeks to respond to my e-mail and I'm sure it's a co-incidence they did so the day after Michael Sabia would've received the e-mail I sent him. It'd be pretty pathetic if you had to go to the President and Chief Executive Officer of Bell's parent corporation in order to get a response, from them.
Anyway, the "four megs" up was mentioned and they assure me their staff will be "coached" so that doesn't happen again. Not even a suggestion it hadn't been said so I suspect they've listened to, at least, some of their tapes. As I've posted, though, unless or until this reaches the media or a Court, the "four megs" is a non-issue. They can't provide it so the only use it has is as evidence they misrepresented the service we'd be provided.
The fact the "seven megs" isn't available, in my area, was mentioned. IMNSHO, this is an admission that they sold me a service they knew they weren't able to provide. At no time did they tell me this and took it upon themselves to give me something other than what I'd been sold, without my knowledge and/or consent.
The "discount" and "six months service" were mentioned. As I've posted many, many, many times, neither has the teeniest, tiniest, least little thing to do with the issue at hand as they are totally unrelated. I really have to wonder why anyone, with a double digit IQ, would have difficulty understanding that.
The "up to" was mentioned. IMNSHO, that works for ten, fifteen, maybe twenty percent. For forty or fifty, it doesn't. If this winds up in the media, it'll be interesting to see how they justify charging people for a "seven meg" service when they're providing a "one or two meg" service. If it gets to a Court, I really hope that's their defence.
The offer to release me, from the contract, without a cancellation fee was mentioned. Mighty nice of them since they enticed me into it by misrepresenting their service and, IMNSHO, aren't providing me with the consideration I contracted for so wouldn't be entitled to a cancellation fee, in any case.
Anyway, not wanting to be accused again of, as Deadpool put it: "...you're not even willing to meet Bell halfway and come to some sort of compromise." I will, as I said, call back to-morrow but, at the moment, it appears they're the ones with the attitude of, again as Deadpool put it: "my way or the highway" and that just doesn't work, for me.
****** ADDED 9/28 1030 EST ******
This morning, I see this, from Deadpool: "So what does your speed test look like now?"
I figure the question wouldn't have been asked without a reason so I check and, wonder of wonders, it's magically gone up by almost 1Mbps to 5.4Mbps. I check my cap and, as I expected, I'd been put on the eight meg profile. I posted to that effect and that, so long as my speed remained in this range and nothing that'd already been agreed to was changed, the matter was resolved, so far as I was concerned. Anyway, I check about an hour later and I'm back on the six meg profile and the speed's back to what it was so the matter's not resolved. At the moment, I'm trying to decide whether to be bothered calling the fellow at Kevin Crull's office or just carry on with "Plan B" as it appears, in spite of the suggestion that I'm "not even willing to meet Bell halfway and come to some sort of compromise", BS has no wish to resolve the matter.
****** ADDED 9/28 1405 EST ******
"Plan B" likely won't have any effect for a few weeks so I was wondering what to do in the meantime when I noticed this thread »Peter Silverman (CityTV) vs. Bell Sympatico Well, you see my reaction. Anyway, I couldn't reach Peter by phone so am sending him this e-mail:
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Mr. Silverman...
I've just seen your "The Internet Computer Connection" piece and thought I'd let you know that Bell Sympatico has not "changed their policies". They are still lying to people, screwing them royally and jerking them around mercilessly. For numerous examples, please see »Bell Canada
My own review of my recent and ongoing experiences is at »Review of Bell Sympatico by newf
Regards
*****************************************************************************
****** ADDED 9/30 0930 EST ******
A few people have commented that they feel sorry for level one reps because of the abuse they suffer at the hands of subscribers. Personally, I don't. If they know what they're doing and are making a legitimate effort, I think it unlikely they'd be subjected to any abuse. If they don't or aren't, they shouldn't be there and wouldn't be subjected to any abuse. A couple of people have commented that they're just doing what management tells them to. That "I vas yust followink orders" doesn't work, for me. Even in the military, a private soldier isn't obligated to obey an illegal order. If management is telling them to lie to subscribers and they were terminated because they refused, they'd have good grounds for a wrongful dismissal suit...well, maybe not in India but that'd be their problem.
One guy I do feel sorry for is the Bell VP in the Silverman video. Have you seen the articles on the Sex Pistols button? I suppose it could be argued that he gets the "big bucks", for dealing with that type of situation. IMNSHO though, there's no amount of money that'd make it a well paid job. Anyway, I sent him the following e-mail:
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Hi Mark...
They say "bad publicity is better than no publicity" but I imagine you'd disagree, after the past couple of weeks. On the plus side, I don't think even KFC's "I like the hat" ad has a chance, against you guys, for the coveted "Advertising Faux Pas Of The Century" award. Might've been better if you'd put it off 'til Yom HaShoah but Rosh Hashanah was good.
Seriously though, after seeing the reports of that ad and watching your little get to-gether with Peter Silverman, I couldn't help feeling sorry for you so thought I'd give you a "heads up", so to speak. Have a look at »Peter Silverman (CityTV) vs. Bell Sympatico.
A "media campaign" is phase two of my ongoing attempts to obtain satisfaction from Bell Sympatico. In the event that should fail, phase three is complaints to regulatory agencies and, if necessary, phase four and my last resort would be legal action. Initially, my intention was to deal with Wendy Mesley, whom I believe you know. That, though, will take several weeks and I'd prefer to get this settled sooner rather than later so, upon learning of this Peter Silverman, decided to give him a try, first.
I understand Bell Sympatico's position is that their use of the phrase "up to" permits them to provide a subscriber any service they like and charge the subscriber for whatever service they've sold him or her. Personally, I don't believe that will stand if tested, in Court, but I guess that's why we have judges. In any case, I'm sure we can agree it wouldn't stand in "the court of public opinion". Additionally, there's the matter of Bell Sympatico's soliciting for and selling a service which they aren't equipped to provide and providing the subscriber a service of lesser value, without the subscriber's knowledge or consent. This has been done to too many people for any reasonable person to believe it is anything other than an ongoing operating practice.
What, if anything, you choose to do with this is entirely up to yourself; as I said, I felt sorry for you and wouldn't want to kick a guy when he's down...unless I had to. In the event you decide to rectify the situation, please just send me an e-mail message, letting me know that you've either put me back on the profile I was switched to, briefly, on the twenty-eighth or will be charging me for the service you're providing. I've spoken with dozens of Bell Sympatico employees, over the past several weeks, and all it's accomplished is to raise my blood pressure about ten points. A message, from Jean Francois Lafontaine, telling me Bell Sympatico has done this or that, when this or that have absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand, didn't do a whole lot to lower it.
Regards,
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****** ADDED 10/02 2350 EST ******
Yesterday, two phone messages were left by a fellow from BS. I returned the calls earlier to-day and am now certain BS is trying to kill me by raising my BP to the point a major artery ruptures.
The fellow tells me he's calling in response to the e-mail I sent Mark Langton, to explain their position. Does anyone else have a problem understanding, from the e-mail message I sent Mark Langton, that I know what their position is and I didn't want any more telephone calls from them? Is that harassment?
Anyway, he comes out with some bs about my wanting to be "compensated" for the speed issue. Does anyone else have a problem understanding, from the e-mail message I sent Mark Langton or my review and posts that I don't believe they could ever "compensate" me and, at this point, all I want is to be given something close to what they sold me or to be charged for what they're giving me; I point that out to him. Then he tells me that the offer they've made is the best they're going to do. I point out to him that they haven't made any offer; just given me the same promotional discount everyone gets and given me two customer service concessions. I repeat and emphasize that the two customer service concessions were given prior to my being connected, realizing I was being shafted and have absolutely nothing to do with the present issue; I then repeat that I want either something close to what I was sold or to be charged for what I was given. His response was that I got what I was sold. I point out to him that:
1) BS sold me four megs up and my understanding is that isn't even possible
2) BS sold me seven megs down and my understanding is BS isn't even equipped to provide that in my area, other than by putting me on the eight meg profile
3) BS represented the service as "seven megabytes download" speed NOT seven megabits per second sync rate
4) BS has me capped at 6,016kbps
His response is: "it's up to".
I reply that as I said, in my e-mail message to Mark Langton, I'm aware that's their position but don't believe it's defensible either to the public when this gets on the air or to a judge in the event it reaches a Court. His response is that we live in Canada so I'm free to pursue those options but I got the impression he wished that weren't the case.
I'm sending a copy of this post to Mark Langton not because I think it'll accomplish anything but I don't want anyone to be able to say they didn't know what was going on or the writing was too small (inside joke), when the proverbial excrement hits the proverbial fan.
****** ADDED 10/08 0820 EST ******
To-day I see my first bill since buying the BS Internet access and, true to form, they've screwed it up pretty much every way possible.
1) There are charges for "Internet" even though I was given two customer service concessions equalling six months of service. There's no room for a claim of "misunderstanding" as, in addition to the conversations with the employees giving the concessions, they were subsequently confirmed during conversations with two other employees and a reference number was given.
2) I'm being charged $47.95 plus a $2.00 "Modem Lease" per month even though I was told initially that the charge would be $34.95 per month and subsequently by another employee that the first had made a "mistake" and that the charge would be $37.95 per month. Also, as I've mentioned, they haven't given me the service they sold me. Nothing was ever mentioned by BS about a "Modem Lease". There is a credit reducing the charge to $19.95 (three months sales promotion) so it's possible this is just convoluted accounting but, knowing BS as I've come to, I doubt it.
3) I'm being charged for the period of 28 August to 8 September, during which I hadn't even been able to connect due to a "defective port at the CO".
4) I'm being charged a $15.00 "Bell Sympatico modem shipping fee" which was, also, never mentioned. I wouldn't have agreed to this as I pass a Bell store frequently and would've picked up a modem there, if possible, or purchased one from Canada Computers for $20.00, if not. Also, I asked the employee who solicited me if there were "any other charges" and her reply was "no".
Rather than spending another hour and a half or two hours on the phone and again running the risk of a coronary, I'm deducting the "Internet" charges from my payment and sending a copy of this post to Bell's management.
****** ADDED 10/12 1210 EST ******
I see CBC's "Marketplace" is doing a piece on DSL providers. I understand CITY may be doing one, as well. 8-þ
Attached images and files
Followup comments:  Jorge23
join:2007-09-11
Toronto
| Re: Newf I'm glad I found this website, I've had a lot of the same issues, not nearly to your extent, but problems nonetheless. I'm going to plug this website around to a few others I know who are with them, they'd love to throw in their 2 cents on the atrocious customer service they've also received from Bell. | |
|  | newf
join:2007-09-11
Brampton, ON
 ·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Newf quote:
they'd love to throw in their 2 cents
Every little bit helps. I was talking with my lawyer, earlier, and he wants a $1,500.00 retainer, to initiate an action. He says, though, he can, practically, guarantee a settlement or judgement and that it'll more than cover any expenses. | |
| | | 
travisc
join:2001-11-09
Port Perry, ON | Re: Newf Spectacular review. Thanks for that. | |
| | | | newf
join:2007-09-11
Brampton, ON
·Bell Sympatico
edit:
September 12th, @02:06AM
| Re: Newf De nada. If you liked the review; you'll love the book. It's a transcription of all the calls. Due to its' realistic nature, it does drag, in spots, and there's a great deal of repetition but the humour, I think, more than compensates. The working title is Excellent Service? but I'm toying with Free S&M Phone Sex, Ye're A Wee Bit Old To Be Believin' In Leprechauns and BS, for Bell Sympatico, of course. | |
| | 
Sick of Symp
@bell.ca
| Sorry, didnt know where to reply I am getting overbilled also. They won't discount, just send back an autoresponse. I just cancelled my Bell cell phone because of Sympatico and I will never use Bell for anything again. The sad part is that it is their own poor policies and it has nothing to do with their employees. They have execs that are morons. How do you screw up a company that had such a good rep. | |
| |
TurboPoster
@cgocable.net
| BS Employees The BS employees (not the Soups) are trained according to a standard 8 step script. There is no permission for them to express any humanity. They come across unfortuantly like mindless automatons. It's not their fault. They are simply doing their job in accordance to proper BS decorum and training. No one want's to lose their job, so they simply do what they are told to do are are permitted to do. | |
| 
DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| And a lawyer will help? ROTFL! Your lawyer is taking you for a ride. $1500 and you might get a small settlement after an exchange of letters. Bell, like most companies have a major legal firm on retainer. This won't change a single thing and it won't change your situation (which appears to be distance related with those speeds). Enjoy!
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. | |
| | newf
join:2007-09-11
Brampton, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: And a lawyer will help? We'll see. In any case I won't be accepting a "small settlement". Having the two dozen Bell Sympatico employees I've spoken with over the past month subpoenaed and listening to them try to explain the drivel they've subjected me to while they're under oath as well as listening to the recorded calls will I think be worth the price of admission. Regardless of whether or not I recoup the expenses incurred I expect I will enjoy; I can pretty much guarantee I'll enjoy it a lot more than I have the past month dealing with Bell Sympatico outside of a Court. | |
| | |
DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: And a lawyer will help? said by newf :We'll see. In any case I won't be accepting a "small settlement". Having the two dozen Bell Sympatico employees I've spoken with over the past month subpoenaed and listening to them try to explain the drivel they've subjected me to while they're under oath as well as listening to the recorded calls will I think be worth the price of admission. Regardless of whether or not I recoup the expenses incurred I expect I will enjoy; I can pretty much guarantee I'll enjoy it a lot more than I have the past month dealing with Bell Sympatico outside of a Court. If they even appear. As I said, you will be facing a major Canadian law firm. I trust you have deep pockets. Even in Small Claims Court.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. | |
| | | | newf
join:2007-09-11
Brampton, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: And a lawyer will help? said by DKS :
If they even appear. As I said, you will be facing a major Canadian law firm. I trust you have deep pockets. Even in Small Claims Court.
Will you please stop. Even you have to have some idea of what happens to people who ignore a subpoena and as I've told you I won't be facing anyone. The lawyer representing me is more than competent and is confident he'll obtain a settlement or judgement well in excess of any expenses incurred.
Since you seem so concerned about my financial situation I will say that even if I should have to pay all costs it won't be necessary to hold a tag day to help me out. Also while Law Society regulations don't permit Ontario lawyers to act on a "contingency basis" he and I have a "side bet" that'll mitigate my loses if he loses. Feel better now that you know this isn't gonna hurt me regardless of how it goes? (that's a rhetorical question; I really really do not need to hear from you again) 8-þ | |
| | | | | BoxerJoe
join:2007-08-14
Hamilton, ON | Re: And a lawyer will help? Ever try issuing a subpoena to someone in India? Have fun. | |
| | | | | | | newf
join:2007-09-11
Brampton, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: And a lawyer will help? said by movin on :
Its funny you know...the people who threaten about having a lawyer....what their lawyer is supposed to have said/indicated blah blah
why do you have to tell everybody about just do it!!
I don't know if you haven't read the posts or just aren't able to understand them but legal action is the most time consuming and expensive of the actions I stated I'll be taking. It will, therefore, be the the last. I don't "have to tell everybody" but am doing so as a "public service", so to speak.
quote:
You won't get what you think you will either especially If you called them first
Oh ya, I will but, since you have no idea what I think I'll get, there isn't much point in your commenting on it.
quote:
PS: Since you are smarter than us..you've indicated in a couple of posts that you must be..you certainly give that impression that you are the sharpest knife in the drawer or feel you are
Please don't blame me for your feelings of inadequacy. That's something you may want to discuss with a mental health professional.
quote:
Psst...You won't have all the bell reps subpoenaed either buddy.
Your point? I didn't suggest I'd attempt to "have all the bell reps subpoenaed", buddy.
quote:
Your lawyer won't likely be allowed to do that let alone the whole cost of the project to you vs what you actually will get.
I have no idea what it is you're trying to say here. Perhaps you could repost when you're sober?
quote:
Judges are pretty astute not just YOUR small box you live in way.
Having lived with a judge for a number of years, I've got a pretty good idea what they're like. I'd point out, as well, that we wouldn't be dealing with the Criminal Court judges I expect you're familiar with.
quote:
You do have an inordinate amount of time on your hands but oh I forgot you are smarter using it than us commoners.
As you say, it hasn't taken much of my time, yet. You really ought to do something about that inadequacy issue. Even if it's justified, parading it like that can't be healthy.
quote:
If I was you I'd use the spare time to go play with your Grand kids
Thanks for the suggestion but their mom gets pissed off if I keep them up on school nights.
quote:
No Grand kids? Some Community Volunteer projects.
This is a Community Volunteer project.
said by BoxerJoe :
Ever try issuing a subpoena to someone in India?
Nope and don't intend to. Fortunately, the only people I think would need to be subpoenaed are in Ontario.
quote:
Have fun.
Thanks, I am. | |
| | | | |
movin on
@rogers.com
 from:
DKS
| Re: And a lawyer will help? Not my inadequacy at actually yours...why?
After all I took the proactive move and got a better way faster ISP.
BS can go pound salt and not waste my valuable time.
Its called the competitive free market.
yes people do vote with their wallets.
BS don't care?
Wrong. They do after a lot of wallets "vote".
While you choose the reactive mode and just sit and languish about it.
And type the bravado that you haven't taken the inclination to legally challenge.
Wheres it got you so far?
Other than a stating your dissatisfaction no where at all.
"Having lived with a judge for a number of years"... your typed words
Oh boy tell us your little legal tidbits... oh wow you got clout in the legal system.
BS exes read this they must be a shakin'!!
"You've got a pretty good idea of what judges are like"?
You do?
You know how ALL the judiciary thinks?
Wow...now I do feel inadequate...
Your're clairvoyant.
Then pray tell where is your lawyer? whats taking you so long to get your ends?
You must know with all your supposed insider info that you win hands down? | |
| | | | | | newf
join:2007-09-11
Brampton, ON | Re: And a lawyer will help? said by movin on :
Wow...now I do feel inadequate...
Just now?
I'm sorry I don't have time to respond to your asinine drivel, in detail, again. | |
|
sickofwhiners
@bell.ca
| Poor Connection You act like having a broadband internet connection is a god given right. I understand that dealing with a company can be frustrating but it's really not necessary to insult the people who are just doing their jobs.
Look, the service either works or it doesn't. If it doesn't then you should be credited. If you're still dissatisfied (you seem like the type that always will be) than SWITCH COMPANIES. If there are no alternatives to Sympatico than move to an area that has better service so your precious internet will work. Honestly, anyone that spends this amount of time dealing with a company has bigger issues than just a bad connection.
Maybe someday when the world is perfect and there are no starving children, wars or diseases, every internet connection will work flawlessly. Until then, no one wants to hear your whining. | |
| | newf
join:2007-09-11
Brampton, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Poor Connection Do you really not understand what I've posted or are you another troll or as you're not registered the same troll?
I've never insulted anyone who's done their job. In fact I've never insulted anyone who hasn't done their job although I can see how some of the observations I've made about those who haven't may have been construed as such.
I'm easily satisfied. All Bell Sympatico has to do now to satisfy me is give me what they sold me or charge me for what I'm getting. Does that seem hard to you?
I still have my cable connection and could tell Bell Sympatico to pick up their modems break them into tiny little pieces and shove each individually where the sun doesn't shine. Having been jerked around by Bell Sympatico for more than a month though that ain't gonna happen.
It appears to me as though Bell Sympatico intentionally sets people up on lower profiles than they're sold and in many cases paying for or otherwise overcharges them then expects they'll react as you and DKS suggest should they become aware they're being screwed. Judging from the majority of posts in this forum it works for them; not this time.
I don't have a poor connection. If I can get away from responding to nonsense I'll be updating my review and will post my line stats. In the meantime I'd suggest that if you happen upon something you don't want to see or "hear" you click on something you do.
Me? I'm sick of ***holes...and trolls. | |
| | 
root9
join:2005-04-08
Kitchener, ON
edit:
October 20th, @03:10AM
| RE: sickofwhiners
"You act like having a broadband internet connection is a god given right." It sure is when you're PAYING for it. If you are not getting what you pay for it's called FRAUD.
tudmax,
Senior Network & Systems Analyst | |
|
sickofwhiners
@bell.ca
| also.. I'd like to add that although I’ve heard of similar experiences to Newf's(all of which were resolved with less conflict) I’ve had Sympatico for a couple years and have had no problems whatsoever.
Also Newf, you do know that when they say 7Mb down/4Mb up, it's implied that it’s BITS not BYTES. So, divide those figures by eight and you get the actual rates (approximately). If you were aware of this please omit, however, you did use a capital M'B' in your comments which does denote bytes, hence my explanation. | |
| | newf
join:2007-09-11
Brampton, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: also.. said by sickofwhiners :
I'd like to add that although I’ve heard of similar experiences to Newf's(all of which were resolved with less conflict) I’ve had Sympatico for a couple years and have had no problems whatsoever.
The conflict hasn't been my idea. If I could've done Bell Sympatico's job for them I would've by now just to get this done with. Unfortunately I can't and haven't been able to find another way to motivate them to do it. I'm sure not everyone has the problems I've had but it's apparent many do and the problem here is nothing other than incompetent employees.
said by sickofwhiners :
Also Newf, you do know that when they say 7Mb down/4Mb up, it's implied that it’s BITS not BYTES. So, divide those figures by eight and you get the actual rates (approximately). If you were aware of this please omit, however, you did use a capital M'B' in your comments which does denote bytes, hence my explanation.
Thank you but I was aware of the distinction and that the divisor is 875.
I've tried to use MB for megabyte when reporting conversations as that's the term used by the majority of the Bell Sympatico people I've spoken with and Mbs for megabits per second when posting my own comments. Regardless that's not an issue. | |
| Binoo
join:2007-09-06
Canada
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bell Sympatico
| Down With Bell I can relate to much of what you're saying. I've had Bell harrassing me for over $600.00 I don't owe them and they ripped me off several hundred dollars [approx. $600.00] for jack installations.
I hope you're able to get what you want in your court case.
Maybe they can pay most of your $1 500.00 amount with some of the money they've dicked me out of! Hehe.
Good luck! | |
| | newf
join:2007-09-11
Brampton, ON
·Bell Sympatico
edit:
September 15th, @06:32AM
| Re: Down With Bell Thank you. For the past several years, Bell's been responsible for equipment only up to the demarcation point. Jack installations would be the responsibility of the subscriber and Bell would charge unless there were some arrangement. I believe Bell has an obligation to make the subscriber aware of this.
If you believe you don't owe them, they owe you and/or you're being harassed, you can file a complaint with the CRTC and Ministry of Consumer and Commercial Relations. Also, you could use the Small Claims Court which doesn't require you to have a lawyer. The last time I took that route, it was $50.00 to file the claim and $100.00 to put it on the trial list. All costs are recoverable if your claim is successful and the $100.00 is only required if they file a defence. If they don't, you have a default judgement in, as I recall, twenty days.
Good luck, to you. | |
| | | 
chrispi5
join:2004-07-11
Toronto, ON
edit:
September 16th, @06:58PM
| Re: Down With Bell I kind of have the feeling newf, that it is not possible to make you happy. Sorry.... You now have good throughput, free service for six months, reduced rates for another three months. Why do you have to be so vindictive and vengeful? I have had my great sum of issues with Sympatico but, in hindsight I could have just left. No drama, no hissyfits that waste even more time... All over what... A misspoken number (4Mb) and my own ignorance and failure to read the Terms of Service? You must be bored...
I intend no disrespect newf but c'mon, they did not run over your dog and burn down your flower garden... relax. There are avenues that are available in this forum to resolve all the issues you were having, unless of course, you enjoy the conflict.
--
‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’
-Edmund Burke
**** 73 posts since Sept 11th... Get out more dude!...Playin with ya, so don't sue me k? | |
| | | | newf
join:2007-09-11
Brampton, ON
·Bell Sympatico
edit:
September 17th, @08:02AM
| Re: Down With Bell said by chrispi5 :
I kind of have the feeling newf, that it is not possible to make you happy.
I've posted, more than once, that all BS has to do to make me "happy" is give me what they sold me or charge me for what they're giving me. Once again I'll ask, how is that unreasonable?
quote:
Sorry.... You now have good throughput, free service for six months, reduced rates for another three months.
I don't have what I was sold and BS is presumably expecting me to pay for, the reduced rate for three months is a BS promotion and the six months free service doesn't even come close to compensating me for the weeks of my life BS has robbed me of, not to mention the treatment they've subjected me to.
quote:
Why do you have to be so vindictive and vengeful?
I'm not vindictive and vengeful; I quit shooting as soon as they stop moving. Once BS gives me what they sold me or agrees in writing to charge me for what they're giving me, I'll probably not bother with them.
quote:
I have had my great sum of issues with Sympatico but, in hindsight I could have just left. No drama, no hissyfits that waste even more time...
That's an odd thing for someone who has: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." as his sig, to say.
quote:
All over what... A misspoken number (4Mb) and my own ignorance and failure to read the Terms of Service?
You may've been too ignorant to read the TOS; I wasn't. When a company's employees are telling customers or prospective customers something substantially different from what is stated in the company's TOS, I'd call that "misrepresentation"...or lying. The "4Mb" wasn't "misspoken"; it was said, repeated and confirmed. In any case, neither the TOS nor the "4Mb" are, presently, an issue so why, other than to "muddy the waters", mention them?
quote:
You must be bored...
Not at the moment.
quote:
I intend no disrespect newf but c'mon, they did not run over your dog and burn down your flower garden... relax.
And I haven't blown up any of their facilities...I am relaxed.
quote:
There are avenues that are available in this forum to resolve all the issues you were having, unless of course, you enjoy the conflict.
I assume you're referring to dealing with "Don's team of firefighters" by e-mail or the forum that no one but they and the poster can see the posts in. I've expressed my opinion that this is nothing more than an attempt, by BS, to reduce the amount of their "dirty laundry" that's aired in public. Having dealt with several BS departments, for five weeks, I'm not really inclined to waste any more of my life, dealing with another. You may have noticed, though, that I am communicating with them and "no", I don't enjoy the conflict. I enjoy letting someone jerk me around and screw me over, for weeks, even less though.
quote:
**** 73 posts since Sept 11th... Get out more dude!...Playin with ya, so don't sue me k?
There are many posters who have more than 73 posts since Sept 11th. I've been out twice, to-day. I only sue people if there's a reason...and I'm confident judgement can be enforced. You seem better able to compete than the last couple of BS shi...sorry, I meant "members" who wanted to play but it looks like checkmate, in one.
Now, I have a question for you. Since it's obvious that subscribers screaming bloody blue murder, when there's a problem with BS, is likely to result in BS doing something about it, why is it you and a few others here are so interested in keeping people quiet by deriding them, suggesting they not make public posts and/or suggesting they take their business elsewhere? | |
| | | | |
chrispi5
join:2004-07-11
Toronto, ON | Re: Down With Bell I rest my case....lol | |
| | | | | | newf
join:2007-09-11
Brampton, ON | Re: Down With Bell said by chrispi5 :
I rest my case....lol
You haven't made a case to rest. | |
| | | | | | |
chrispi5
join:2004-07-11
Toronto, ON
| Re: Down With Bell You have already made it for me... You, as it appears, do not want a resolution short of money in your pocket. It would appear that you think your leisure time is more valuable than everyone else's. No one forced you into your battle of attrition. If someone can not provide you the service you expect, find some one who can. You chose to waste your time, you were not forced. Just speculating here... Does your "side bet" with your "Lawyer" not in itself circumvent the whole spirit of the "contingency basis" rulings. This is beginning to sound like an ambulance chasing / money grabbing plan launched intentionally.
I am not against you newf.... It is just that some of the rationale seems a little "George Bush" when it comes to an adequate and measured response to a customer service issue. A little too "planned out" if you know what I mean.
--
‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’
-Edmund Burke | |
| | | | | | | | newf
join:2007-09-11
Brampton, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Down With Bell said by chrispi5 :
You have already made it for me...
I don't think so but we can post a poll if you like.
I was going to refer your post for moderation as "blatant trolling" but think that I may be able to respond without being rude.
In the first place, I'd be happy as a pig in excrement to pay for the 7 megs IF I WERE GETTING IT or even close to it. I'd be thrilled to pay for what I am getting which is 4Mbs down and 600kbs up but close enough to the 5/800 profile that I don't have a problem calling it that.
BS forced me into the "battle of attrition", as you put it. The issue is not, nor has it ever been, that BS can't provide me with the service I expect. As I've posted a number of times, I'm willing to accept that they're unable to give me any better than they are, at present. The issue is that they expect me to pay for something they're not giving me.
Yes, I was forced but I'm not wasting my time; I'll, eventually, get either what they sold me, charged for what they're giving me or the satisfaction of having caused them many, many, many times the aggravation they've caused me.
I resent being compared with Dubya. He started a fight with someone much, much smaller than himself for no good reason. I'm fighting back against someone much, much larger than myself for a very good reason. The issue isn't just "customer service". My first few responses were "measured" and ought to have been "adequate"; at this point, we're into "massive retaliation".
This isn't about the money; it's the principle...something you're, apparently, incapable of grasping. If this does wind up in court, I'll likely recover a fair amount in damages. I'd be happier, though, if they were to call to-morrow and agree to the $24.95. This would be $150.00 which I suppose you'd consider "money in my pocket"...that's cost me ten times that to get. Not a good ROI, in terms of money, but the satisfaction of knowing I wasn't a gutless, sniveling chickensh*t is priceless.
Your question as to whether the "side bet" circumvents the whole spirit of the "contingency basis rulings" isn't one I can answer. My personal opinion is that it does but whether or not it's a violation of the regulation is something I have no idea of and, since the regulation doesn't apply to me, no interest in. I suspect it doesn't or it's unlikely to have been made. If you wish, I can give you the contact information for the disciplinary committee of the Law Society of Upper Canada and you can inquire. | |
| | | | |
cheapskate
@bell.ca
moderated:
September 17th, @04:00AM
| said by newf :I've posted, more than once, that all BS has to do to make me "happy" is give me what they sold me or charge me for what they're giving me. Once again I'll ask, how is that unreasonable? You're getting Internet for FREE, is that too high a price for what you're getting? Do you want them to goddam PAY you to use their service? | |
| | | | | | newf
join:2007-09-11
Brampton, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| Re: Down With Bell said by cheapskate :
You're getting Internet for FREE, is that too high a price for what you're getting?
I assume you're referring to the six months of service BS has given me as a customer service concession. That has a value of approximately $210.00 if I were getting the service they sold me which doesn't appear likely to happen. Even at minimum wage that doesn't come close to compensating me for the time they've forced me to spend dealing with this. Again, not to mention the treatment they've subjected me to.
quote:
Do you want them to goddam PAY you to use their service?
Considering the service I've received from them, to date, they ought to. | |
| | | | | | | | | newf
join:2007-09-11
Brampton, ON | Re: Down With Bell said by DKS :
Bingo... 
I see you're not only not a lawyer, you're not a bingo player either. | |
| 
Kardinal
431st Air Demo Sqdn
Premium
join:2001-02-04
N of 49th
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| What billing point would make you happy?? said by newf :I've posted, more than once, that all BS has to do to make me "happy" is give me what they sold me or charge me for what they're giving me. Once again I'll ask, how is that unreasonable? You've posted this statement several times, including after saying that you are now on a 6M profile (by your own words). If the service is up to 7M, you seem to think that either (a) you get the full rate or (b) you get some sort of discount because you aren't getting the top speed offered in some areas.
I guess the question that I, along with a few others, would like to know is "what do you think would be a reasonable price for what you are getting?". This question does not include any of the free service you have been offered, reduced rate you have been offered nor any of the time you have spent up to now on the phone/email/posting here. It's a simple question:
How much do you think you should be paying every month for the service you have now?
The reason I make this question so specific is because you seem to think you should get a discount on an "up to" service because you don't accept the concept of "up to" applying to you. That's not a flame BTW, it's just the impression I'm getting from your many posts and the review above.
--
All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to s |
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