Review by qworster Location: Tucson, Pima, AZ, USA Cost: $48 per month Qwest Finally!!! after 2 months of nightmares it's working ok! They've TRIPLE BILLED me the past two months! A class action suit looks better all the time!

Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Services: Value for money:

Update: December 30, 2001

Finally, after two months and over 25 calls to MSN tech support, MSN DSL seems to be working okay. I'm not getting quite the speed I got with Qwest, but it's close (540 down, 212 up on average on a 640/256 DSL circuit) and reasonably reliable.

Yesterday I got my Qwest phone bill....today I opened it....
The monthly charge to MSN there is:$143.70 or exactly THREE TIMES the proper charge of $47.90. Last month I was away and my roommate paid the bill...I went and looked at that one..SAME THING!! I just assumed that she had made a bunch of LD calls.....

THESE BASTARDS HAVE BILLED ME $287.40 FOR TWO MONTHS OF DSL SERVICE!!!!

To make things worse, Qwest has overcharged me 100 bucks on the Cisco modem. They never gave me the credit for a second modem I returned to them MONTHS AGO (I have their RMA number to prove it..and they acknolowlege that it got sent back...they just REFUSE to credit it...apparently shipping and billing "don't talk").
Is anyone planning a class action suit? I've heard this bantered around... If so, I'm THERE!!!!
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I migrated from Qwest DSL to MSN DSL two weeks ago..

No , let me rephrase that...

I was one of the suckers who bought MSN and Qwest's bullsiht that nothing would change concerning my (former) Qwest DSL circuit. Everything has changed!
Before I migrated, I called MSN and was assured by them that the only difference I would see is that they (MSN) don't support VPN just yet. Otherwise, my connection (640/256) would be identical and might even be a bit faster then with Qwest (average 560k).

Let me put this as succinctly as I can: THEY LIE!!!

First of all, their Usenet is filtered to death. Qwest didn't filter a single one, MSN filters out over half of them! Plus along with the obvious (porno) ones are the not so obvious such as alt.microsoftsucks.

Of course, they do have their own usenet that has virtually nothing useful on it.

At five past midnight on Thanksgiving, my DSL quit. I went to bed. Ten hours later it still wasn't working so I called MSN support, where I was informed that they were having a system wide outage. "OK" I thought. Equipment fails. I can wait.
Near as I can tell, DSL came back about 6 PM, 18 hours later. Problem was, it had very poor speed. In fact, a dial up connection was faster. I called MSN support again and they told me: "Give it a day to come back up to full speed". Fair enough.
I waited another day. No difference. Called them back and got the same spiel. I asked for escalation. They refused. I asked for a ticket number. They refused. They said it was probably Qwest and gave me a number for them. I called it and a recording said they were closed until Monday. In desperation, I called my old Qwest DSL support number and told the person there my tale of woe. He said he believed I was being given the run around by MSN, and gave me the inside Qwest wire line number. I called it and got a real nice guy on the phone. After telling me that I had reached an inside number and he shouldn't even be talking to me he agreed to check out my line. He said it was working fine but that he could see very slow throughput from MSN. I hung up and went to bed.
Now it's Sunday night....almost four days after the DSL failed. My speed is now up to about 210k (1/3 of what I pay for). I called the MSN number again and they tried to go through the same BS they always do (flush your cache, etc.) I'm a radio and network engineer. I know what I'm doing. Don't patronize me, MSN.
Finally...they admitted that the number I had been given was usually for dial up and gave me a broadband number. I called it up and here's what I found:

First of all, unlike Qwest (who guarantee you 80% of the speed you pay for), MSN only guarantees 56k(!!!!) speed on DSL lines!!!! I was stunned when the guy told me that My 200k throughput (1/3 0f what I'm paying for) met their minimum bandwidth for a 640k line!! (now rememember what I was told by them in the first place). So, I asked him: "Why then do you offer (cheaper) 256k service then. It would seem to me that I should at least get service on my 640k line that's faster then 256k!" His reply: "I don't know".

Finally, I managed to get them to escalate my problem (that he claims is no problem). I'll keep you updated as to what happens, though I'm now most certainly going to change over to cable (yes, I know that I can get another ISP, but I really feel like hitting Qwest in their pocketbook for getting me into this nightmare!)..

The bottom line: AVOID MSN DSL LIKE THE PLAGUE!!!

needforspeed59 Cruise Ship Just Passing Through join:2001-05-02 La Place, LA needforspeed59 Member 2001-Nov-26 10:59 am Check out Cable Modem service Have you checked to see if you can get cable modem service? Mine was running slow last night... only 1.8Mbps! 2001-Nov-26 10:59 am: · hey mods ·
ITGeekMonkey Orbis Hirsutis Premium Member join:2001-11-06 Wylie, TX ITGeekMonkey Premium Member 2001-Nov-26 3:33 pm DON'T GET BURNED! I'm sure you've read the numerous complaints about DTVDSL. I'd just like to warn you to not give them the chance to steal your precious life force. Please see my comments directly under your review. Good Luck My Friend 2001-Nov-26 3:33 pm: · hey mods ·
SMCinAZ Premium Member join:2000-11-29 Glendale, AZ SMCinAZ Premium Member 2001-Nov-26 3:33 pm I'd dume 'em That stuff is non-sense. MSN is like AOL...sometimes they are ok but you can do a Hell of a lot better, easily. 2001-Nov-26 3:33 pm: · hey mods ·
warnlot join:1999-11-20 Minneapolis, MN warnlot Member 2001-Nov-26 7:38 pm Said it before, switch to cable! In an earlier posting, mentioned how MSN and QWest had totally messed up my conversion to MSN after over two years excellent service by QWest DSL. Have now had RoadRunner service in the Minneapolis area for two weeks and download times are averaging over four times faster than QWest DSL. 2001-Nov-26 7:38 pm: · hey mods ·
andy2lisa join:2001-11-26 Peoria, AZ andy2lisa Member 2001-Nov-26 9:53 pm Just another Fed Up MSN/Qwest Broadband user!! I am sooo sick of fighting w/ my MSN Broadband connection/account - I have had Qwest Deluxe 640 service for approx. 2 years and I loved it - never went down, always 640, easy to administer etc. Ever since I foolishly switched to MSN it has been a nightmare. Once I ran the install CD for MSN, my "deluxe" always on connection started timing out after 20 minutes of non-use, like the 256 service does, and would close after 2 hours of use. But that was small potatoes compared to the crap I've been putting up with since. My connection has gotten slower and slower, even though I am paying for 640. I have had lots of other glitchy problems, and have called them a number of times - I either get the runaround from person to person, or I get a down-right lie about how to resolve - I'm a MCSE certified Network Security administrator, and when I challenge them on how their recommended "fix" will do anything, I just get a bunch of hems and haws, I've actually had someone hang up once. They also use a bunch of techno-babble that I have never heard like "connectoids", frankly I know my way around an IP stack, and any of my co-workers would laugh at this reference. Like so many who have posted here, the last series of straws have been the last week or so - 3-10 connection attempts, sometime getting on sometimes not. Reported speed of 256 maximum etc. Today I get home, and try to connect, and my connection trains and authenticates almost immediately, and reports 640K. I'm thinking that maybe some problems have been resolved. Then the bottom falls out - the home page take 4 1/2 minutes to load. My line is reporting 16db when it usually is 28-31. I then try to connect to a few other sites - they all time out. I ping and tracert to qwest.msn.com - no return on many pings, and the tracert dies out after 14 hops, them just time outs. I call MSN, 1/2 hour wait, and then I finally get a tech. I tried to be cooperative, went through all of their silly procedures like blowing away cookies, cache, history etc. Then she has me go to the dslreports speed test site, it times out, and she says she has to have a test result to elevate!! At this point I explained my background and told her the problem was clearly on their end, and in any instance how could I get a test result, without a connection? She put me on hold, and 5 minutes later she said she could "elevate" this because of my 16db line quality. She then told me "we are kind of sort of backed up at the next level, so it may be 5-7 days - backed up -DUH!!! I hate to move to cable, not because of the service, but because I already have a router for DSL, and I don't want to rent one (or buy one) from COX. I know I can go w/ another ISP and that's probably what I'll do, but I am so fed up that I may make the move to cable just to put this disaster behind. I spend all day working on Networking issues, when I get home I want to have fun, not fight with my ISP. THIS IS NOT FUN, IT'S AGONY!! Post Script: I was disconnected while I was writing this, and when I reconnected I had 27db and 512K - but still absolutely no throughput, have tried to get to the dialup number so I can simply get a dialup number but this times out as well - the review page for dslreports took about 5 minutes to load, but by god I'm gonna get this posted - this just sucks!!! 2001-Nov-26 9:53 pm: · hey mods ·
	qworster join:2001-11-25 Bryn Mawr, PA qworster Member 2001-Nov-26 10:49 pm You should post this as a review.... It's another MSN/Qwest Horror story waiting to make the list... 2001-Nov-26 10:49 pm: · hey mods ·
	jglasma$ I Love The Mods Here join:2001-09-03 Boise, ID jglasma$ to andy2lisa Member 2001-Nov-26 11:54 pm to andy2lisa Re: Just another Fed Up MSN/Qwest Broadband user!! Hey Andy, changing ISP's wont improve line quality. Do what I told you in the instant message I sent you! LOL, has an MSN tech said "sir, I believe we have to change the dilythium crystal in the central office." LOL I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing with you. (stress may cause hair loss and ulcers!) BTW, when I had MSN DSL it worked fine but apparently there was a password issue, so I called MSN tech support and was talking to young girl that sounded like she was 12 (literally) so, I politely asked "ma'am how old are you?" and she said 16... Oh I dumped my MSN DSL because pings to the gateway werent good for gaming so I went with cable. (which isnt very reliable at all! At least here anyways!) good luck Andy! 2001-Nov-26 11:54 pm: · hey mods ·
jglasma$ jglasma$ Member 2001-Nov-26 11:39 pm I can try to help OK I work for Qwest, so IM me your phone number and I'll look for open tickets. BTW, I just fixed this lady in your area today in AZ (480 area code) She said that she had been down for 3 MONTHS!! Come to find out there was an order error and she wasnt even provisioned, had to build the circuit from the ground up (yet MSN was billing her!)...translations, assignments and DSLAM wiring. Had her fixed in like 4 hours. I cant believe we treat our customers like this!!! Honestly folks...the problem is: ALL THE RED TAPE!! Supervisors tell us that we cant talk to MSN customers even if it is a line problem (which we deal with at Qwest) MSN has to call us. The tricky part is narrowing it down to whether it is a line problem or not. The ARESCOM modems wont train (WAN link light will blink) if MSN does not have their username and password set up correctly, unlike the Cisco external modems 675/678 the WAN light will be solid even if the username and password are incorrect. The WAN light will be solid if it talks to our DSLAM. We here at Qwest though dont know a thing about troubleshooting those ARESCOM's though. But I sure try! 2001-Nov-26 11:39 pm: · hey mods ·
	Onegen join:2001-12-16 Chilliwack, BC Onegen Member 2001-Dec-17 1:11 am Re: I can try to help What is scary.At our location,we only have three people (three!) who are willing to call Qwest on a daily basis to follow through. The rest clock in,do their jobs and go home. I'm proudly one of those who will follow through. ~The MSN Insider. "What we have here is what we call an ID10T." 2001-Dec-17 1:11 am: · hey mods ·
System Anon 2001-Dec-31 12:56 pm more msn woes - dsl disconnected Here is a message I posted to MSN today. I had similar migration woes. Now after a month my DSL service has been disconnected. Apparently this is happening to a number of people as the call center rep had a script to read from on it. In addition to the appalingly bad migration and start up experience and lack of control over their system, now I am getting next to no information. Avoid MSN *** My DSL was disconnected without my authorization and from the snippets of information I get from 'customer service', without anyone on your end recording why. Now I am told it will take a month to reconnect. This is outrageous. I can get no one with any authority or information to talk to me, as your reps just read from their scripts and say they have no way to tell me anything else. I have yet to receive any communication from MSN as to why my service was disconnected, when it will be reestablished, or what steps you are taking to keep something similar from happening again. I am an instructor for Univeristy of Phoenix in Telecommunications and this will be an excellent case study for my classes on why customer service is important in their jobs as IT professionals. I will be forwarding my experiences to DSL Reports, Robert Cringely, and anyone else who can help publicize the atrocious lack of quality in your service, with the hope that others will not be duped by your failure to provide decent service. 2001-Dec-31 12:56 pm: · hey mods ·
	DUDE5X join:2001-12-24 Norfolk, NE DUDE5X Member 2002-Jan-2 7:21 am Re: more msn woes - dsl disconnected Same problem I had. 2002-Jan-2 7:21 am: · hey mods ·
got_f_ed @hsmnet.com got_f_ed Anon 2002-Jan-7 3:57 pm I just migrated Last Wed night I just migrated to MSN from Qwest.net last week. I've only had DSL for about 5 months but in that time I only had one small connectivity problem. In the last 5 days of being an MSN customer I've had 6 outages. on top of that, they filter and block non-MSN smtp traffic (meaning that I can't send email from my yahoo POP3 account). I decided to have my internet service pointed to black-hole.com (a local ISP that I've had great service with) but I came to find out that because of the deal between MSN and Qwest....I no longer have ANY control over what I do with my line. The only way is to call MSN and cancel my service (which will cancel my DSL line through Qwest) and place another order with Qwest for a new DSL line and point the service elsewhere. If we look at the breakdown that's 15 business days for DSL circuit deconstruction (Qwest can't touch it during that time) + 15 business days for DSL circuit reconstruction and I'm off. Thank god Roadrunner is coming out on Thursday morning. Talking to one of the MSN techs I found out that MSN exec's have no plans to alter their strategy of deliberatly lying to customers and that a part of their strategy is control (odd behaviour from Microsoft), and a major point of control is making it as hard as possible for people to change their service. I mentioned that someone will probably file a class-action lawsuit in the next 6 months over this one and the tech agreed. 2002-Jan-7 3:57 pm: · hey mods ·
your comment..

Review by andynyc14 Location: Astoria, Queens, NY, USA Cost: $39 per month (12 month contract) Install: about 46 days . . .

Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Services: Value for money:

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your comment..

Review by vvv00 Location: Denver, Denver, CO, USA Cost: $30 per month Install: about 3 days Qwest Lowest rate I could find; tech support by phone 24/7 provided by phone company. No direct contact, everything goes through the phone company; it's MSN therefore it's evil.

Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Services: Value for money:

I think the service is called MSN Premium; and there's a lot of Windows software that comes with it, but I use Mac OS X, so I have no idea how the software is.

I had a non-phone company ISP for a couple of years, but tech support was getting lax (see my review of VCN), and I was paying more. Now tech support is 24/7, and I pay less. Hate to say it about the big, evil MSN, but the value seems better. (Alternate views, constructive criticism welcome.)

your comment..

Review by shadowshark Location: Lake Orion, Oakland, MI, USA Cost Contract price not specified.

Value for money:

no longer have this service Comcast has been my provider for years now

dmkknife join:2002-08-25 Clarkston, MI dmkknife Member 2002-Aug-25 10:29 am MSN VS Comcast Hey, I'm in Clarkston, MI, and If you have been having good luck with MSN's DSL I would recommend you continue to use their service. I have been calling Comcast about the Cable IS for over a year. All I have received so far are delayed dates. First it was Nov. 01, then, Feb. 01, then March 02, then June 02, ETC. Steer clear of Ameritech DSL, SUCKS BIG TIME. KM 2002-Aug-25 10:29 am: · hey mods ·

your comment..

Review by danawhitaker Location: Urbandale, Polk, IA, USA Cost: $38 per month Install: about 14 days Qwest Connection was stable. DSL train speed tanked like a rock in 2007 and techs offered no solution. It depends on your situation. A year ago, I wouldn't have switched for the world.

Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Services: Value for money:

I originally ordered the 256/256 plan in late August of 2001 for $39 per month with no contract. My connection was up and running on September 11, 2001. I ordered the service through the website, and received the modem from MSN very quickly (Arescom 800 modem). I now have the 640/256 package, which costs $49 per month (I made this chance in August of 2002). The upgrade was delivered as per the quoted delivery date.

The only problems I have had are fairly small, and often not the problem of MSN. One was a major outage that lasted 12 hours on Thanksgiving Day of 2001. The other problem was that my connection was completely unstable (on again, off again) for about a week in early April. This turned out to be a problem with the line on my end, and was easily resolved after I contacted Qwest and had them come fix it. Since then, my connection and speed have been absolutely stable, and my IP address has not changed since April 3rd.

I would definitely recommend this service to other people living in/near the Des Moines area who are able to get it.

UPDATE: I cancelled my service with Qwest as of February 11th, 2008. Late spring and early summer of 2007, I began having numerous disconnections and speed problems with my connection after my phone line was cut for the 5th or 6th time. Long story short, Qwest came out, put a new NID on the house, and told me that there were too many errors on my line and the only option for me to was to drop the 1.5/896 speed tier down to 640/256 or 256/256. This was not an option for me, as I do a signficant amount of downloading and uploading. Since one of my chief complaints WAS in regards to speeds being too slow, that seemed illogical to suggest anyway. I kept my 1.5 service against the advice of the tech dispatched to my house and the tech he called. It rarely trained higher than 512kbit, although the upstream continued to train at around 800kbit. I called several times over the next few months but was given no other solution than to drop speeds. The connection was at least stable, meaning I wasn't disconnected multiple times per day, but incredibly slow. Mediacom finally made an offer that I could no longer refuse.

msft msn rok join:2002-10-05 Salt Lake City, UT msft msn rok Member 2003-Sep-14 8:10 pm location is everything we're fortunate to live behind the central office or we would have 256 up & down. 2003-Sep-14 8:10 pm: · hey mods ·

your comment..

Review by otterwhf Location: Cheyenne, Laramie, WY, USA Cost: $47 per month (24 month contract) Qwest Faster (?) than dial up MSN tech support is NOT. Have been on phone for over 4 hours trying to get my FASTER premium service...not I am down to 81 Kbit Bleah

Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Services: Value for money:

I used MSN regular, which is better than dial-up. I then opted for MSN Premium which has never worked properly. The current speed rate is 81 Kbit/sec with a ping time of 998ms! Weekends are even worse, if that is possible. I have been speaking with a "tech" for over 4 hours with no improvement or satisfaction. I gave up and have been trying to "fix" it myself. It is MSN that is the culprit.

your comment..

Review by OldschoolDSL Location: Holyoke, Hampden, MA, USA Cost Contract price not specified. Install: about 1 days Verizon Its normally free with other ISP's and comes with free safety tools no comment (n/a at this time) It's great as an add on, but I wouldn't pay for it

Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Services: Value for money:

My review speaks for The MSN Premium Software and not MSN as an ISP directly It was offered to me for free via Verizon DSL

MSN (Microsoft Network) first made its public day view at the start of Windows 95. It was a cross of trying to offer something for the business world, which did not want something an flaky as AOL, but user friendly and eye catching for the home user as well.

MSN Explorer for the most part, started off the "kick off" for MSN Premium over time. Which when first released was free. MSN Explorer allowed the user to access their Hotmail.com or MSN.com e-mail, directly through their computer with the look and feel of normal e-mail, as you would in Outlook or in today's Mozilla Thunderbird. As they improved the browser they also included Messenger (know known as MSN Messenger), Encarta Online, MSN Money, and many more.

Today with a wide range of other useful services included into MSN Premium, Microsoft has also partnered with McAfee to help secure people's pc's with McAfee Anti-Virus and McAfee Firewall. To much of many people's surprise, they have also teamed up with Webroots Spy-sweeper to improve users awareness of spy-ware, ad-ware, and root-kits. This was unexpected as Microsoft is currently offering their own free program, Windows Defender.

Over all, I would say it does make things a little easier for users who do not want to visit Hotmail.com and have to log in and wait for pages to load. It's also cool they've included Webroots & McAfee into the deal. However its best as an add on.

As much as I do like it, I do not ever see myself paying for this. Most of the Premium content and services, I can now get for free. I no longer use McAfee, as I paid for Kaspersky (Kaspersky.com) and Webroots does make for a nice add on, but if I had to buy it I would and could do so cheaper then MSN. I normally use AIM, Google, or Skype over Messenger. And most of everything else they offer I could get else where.

In truth, I use it only to view my MSN account without having to visit their web page.

UPDATE - 09-17-2007 - MSN now being fully replaced by Microsoft Live or known as Windows Live. The MSN Browser service is still out there, but I've ended my service about 1 month ago. The above all remains true.

~ END REVIEW ~ 09/17/2007

your comment..

Review by bilydkid1970 Location: Ogden, Weber, UT, USA Cost: $45 per month Install: about 7 days Qwest 1.5M down/ 1M up Fast Connection - Easy Setup - Cheap Price and Now it's Cheaper none Just Get it.

Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Services: Value for money:

Below the asterisks is my last review. Since then, things have gotten even better. With a one year agreement, your monthly payment is now 25.99 plus taxes and fees for this same connection. In regards to the "what about ports other than 80" question posted previously - I can open and close all the ports I need just fine with my actiontec modem. If you're like me and must have a landline phone at home, there's no cheaper alternative than Qwest/MSN DSL where it's available. They offer faster connections now for a little more money, but I'm very content with 1.5 mbps. My bottom line is still the same...Just get it.

-BdK
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This was easy to set up. The connection is alot faster than dialup. There is no contract required.

I've had a 640K line, the 256K for awhile, and now qwest/msn have dropped their prices again! $40 plus tax for 1.5 mebabits down and 1 megabit up!

DSL is inching closer to cable speeds, and I'm not sharing a line like cable subscribers do. My bandwidth is MINE. I have 1.5 megabits 24/7.

This package is a winner.

Just get it.

-BdK

mezner1 join:2001-08-14 Layton, UT mezner1 Member 2003-Oct-20 12:21 pm Msn=not good at all I was trying to go with msn at one point they sent the self install out to me I plug the modem in to my nic card and followed all the inst in the leaflet they sent out, nothing happens called tec support 13 times was on hold avg of 45 min each time. They say there is a problem on the line call back next day if it is not working, this goes on tell the give me the tier 3 support, guess what they were not to sell to my area for another 4 weeks, cancel send back modem qwe$t send me a Cisco 640 modem hook it up call my isp and wow it works m$n SUCKS just more money for Billy gate$. 2003-Oct-20 12:21 pm: · hey mods ·

botkiller join:2004-04-19 botkiller Member 2004-Apr-19 11:41 pm yah, but what about ports other than 80? I love the 1.5mbit connection, I am on the qwest service as well, but have you had the same problem I have had, where I cannot use any other ports other than http: ports? IRC won't work, no filesharing, nothing, and as I understand it, this is something that msn is in control of, not the user... therefore, we are not using a true internet connection, just some uber fast web browser... have you had this problem, or might it only be here where I am?? 2004-Apr-19 11:41 pm: · hey mods ·

your comment..

Review by Dave Steggs Location: Grand Island, Erie, NY, USA Cost Contract price not specified. Verizon CLEC party: Verizon None Bad interface, popup blocker dosent work, email is hard to check At least its free.

Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Services: Value for money:

I got msn with my verizon dsl (wich btw is awesome!) and i hate it. I never use it to browse, bacause i hate the interface and the popup blockers are bad. Also the download manager is horible! So instead i use Mozilla Firefox. But unfortunatley it is the only thing i have for e-mail.

Update: i just tried to log on for e-mail and it gave me an error... friggen hate this thing

Rob A Adjusting Premium Member join:2005-01-17 Pompton Plains, NJ Rob A Premium Member 2006-Aug-8 1:04 pm Atleast it's free And you get a choice whether to use it or not. I just use the account for free antivirus and firewall, but never actually use the software too. 2006-Aug-8 1:04 pm: · hey mods ·

your comment..

Review by thorgod Location: Socorro, Socorro, NM, USA Cost: $45 per month (30 month contract) Install: about 5 days It's DSL It's expensive It's quick, and you pay for it

Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Services: Value for money:

I really wish I could have a naked DSL setup, but the local phone company denies any such thing is possible. The line goes out at least once every two weeks, maybe more. But hey I've got DSL in the middle of no where, so good.

your comment..