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Review by ripleygin  Posted: 175 days ago member for 175 days, 1 visits, last login: 157 days ago
Emeryville,Alameda,CA
Contract price not specified.
"Not one"
"slow speeds, draconion fair use policy, terrible customer service/support"
"run away from this service as fast as you can"
| Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Mail,DNS,News: (ratings match consensus)
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Not one redeeming aspect to this service. If I had any other option other than dial-up I'd be off this instantly. Actually, dial-up is looking like a pretty good option at this point
Followup comments: | Forums » comments on review of HughesNet Satellite Broadband |
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Review by pistachionut  UPDATED: 177 days ago member for 1 year, 262 visits, last login: a few hours ago
Waverly,Wood,WV
Contract price not specified.
"Rural availability"
"FAP (download cap), Price vs. Speed, Not dependable"
"Alternative to dial-up, browsing/email only, worthless for anything else"
| Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Mail,DNS,News: Value for money: (ratings match consensus)
|
*Updates at Bottom*
Satellite internet is demonized because everyone expects to get the speeds and latency of DSL and CABLE alternatives. Isnt going to happen. Honestly, if you are going with satellite then likely those two aren't options. If you are lucky you may be within Wireless range of a providers cellular internet in an enhanced network.
If you are going with satellite just bear in mind, the download speeds generally prove true except during peak times, and latency is much higher, so expect slight delays when browsing. Also, no online gaming with this service as the pings are way to high. Honestly, I am not disappointed with the service as they pretty much explain all the drawbacks in comparison with more mainstream providers, but I do feel the FAP (fair access policy) is too restrictive and the price for performance is not acceptable in todays market.
Either way, satellite is not a bad option if you dont have any alternatives, just bear in mind the limitations before signing up.
UPDATE: 1-17-09
Just an update to the initial review. Having had Hughes.net for in excess of 2 years I cant complain. Still my only gripes are price and usage limits. Speed-wise it seems excessive compared to DSL and Cable comparatives. Locally you can get DSL at 3Mbps for around $30 and cable at 12Mbs at $70, and neither with any sort of known usage cap. Reliability is good even in inclement weather, and advertised speed is usually close. Yes, tech support is outsourced, but a lot of times problems can be dealt with through whomever did your loca install.
I did switch for a couple months to a wireless provider but it cost more and averaged lower speeds than Hughes.net. The good points were a much better Ping and unlimited download, but I find that over time you get use to the FAP and just adjust your usage around the limit, so I switched back to Hughes to save some money.
I am currently on the HN7000S, with the mid plan, 1mb up. Would like to switch to the HN9000S to stay with current technology but am not going to make the change until they offer some sort of incentive.
If you are considering a switch to satellite this is a good place to check, especially the forums. Seems to be a lot of knowledgable people who can give you a lot of good tips, and most of them seem to concur on one point. Your experience, good or bad, will likey be dependant on the initial install and how well it is done.
UPDATE: 6-11-09
-Reliability seems to be steadily getting worse. Consistently getting sub-dialup speeds both on and off peak times. And remarkably I am running into the circumstances others have reported. As soon as you call tech support an average download of perhaps 75k suddenly jumps up the the 1.5m I'm paying for. I ran concurrent speed tests from trusted sites alongside Hughes version and it mirrored this fact. Their tech support had no explanation, or if they did they couldn't articulate the fact in english. Also, I havent exceeded the FAP for months, so that isnt the issue. Understandably my frustration level continues to rise as the price per performance ratio gets even worse. At this point I can recommend this service as a LAST resort only. DO NOT get yourself into a two year contract unless absolutely no other options exist. I am still using the HN7000S and will never upgrade to a newer modem if it requires another contract. Please, LOOK ELSEWHERE FOR YOUR INTERNET. Satellite isnt worth it.
Followup comments:  Rockin4D
join:2007-10-11 Beggs, OK
·HughesNet Satellit..
·AT&T Yahoo
| dont upgrade to the 9000 I tried it and there was zero improvement. I quit hughes twice last year in 2008 when i had a 7000 in july and again at the end of august after trying out a 9000 for 7 days. I still dont have my own internet to this day. I had the service nearly 6 years and while the best years were 2005 to early 2007 with a commercial dish and plan by 2008 any differentiation between consumer and commercial accounts evaporated as hughes was cramming so many customers on board. So pretty much all their plans are crap and the performance is still miserable. I know because i borrow my neighbors hughes signal and it takes like 30 seconds to log onto a website to merely pay bills. Pathetic.
Wes | |
|  |   ncbarngirl
@Level3.net | Re: dont upgrade to the 9000 Yuck on them!
Had them since 2002, cancelled THEM today! Please, on there upgrades, BS!
I did not mean to vent, sorry! I could just @%%!!&*&^%#@! Feels like a rape by a company! | |
|  toucanne
join:2008-09-07 Pahrump, NV
·HughesNet Satellit..
| HughesNet On the whole, I agree. If you have no choice, it's much better than dial-up, but it is way too costly for what you get. My speeds aren't too bad most of the time. It's FAP that really upsets me, because of its unpredictability. I am extremely careful and still got hit this morning. Don't know what I did, certainly nothing out of the ordinary. Last time, I got huge numbers and suspected a new neighbor, there was no other way it could have happened. I thought I was far enough away from everyone for them to get my signal, but apparently not. So I did what I should have done a long time ago and put on a WEP password. Today, no clue. Customer service is useless. They won't address FAP by email; I have tried and they don't even respond at all. Phone techs overseas stop just short of calling you a liar when you ask how FAP happened. The least they could do is give you a real-time way of monitoring your usage. As it is, their usage meter is 3 hours behind. So I'll wait for AT&T to finally bring DSL to these parts... | |
|   Stuckwhughes
@direcway.com
| Before you 'Upgrade' to the 9000
After filing a complaint with the FCC, I was contacted by a Hughes 'executive customer care' rep who took a month off my bill and offered to release me from my contract, so keep this technique in mind. My issues: I'm a business user and transfer a lot of data; FTP stopped working when I got the 9000. (I got it back using a dos ftp program); Also, I could no longer send e-mails over 1 mb. The customer care rep conferenced me in with a U.S. Tech who admitted that the 9000 has additional latency over the 7000 causing my transfer problems. So I have no solution to poorer performance, but paying 40% more. Now that summer's here I'm also having problems with the 9000 modem overheating and shutting down... never an issue with the 7000, even in the worst Arizona summer heat. The U.S. tech admitted also that the 9000 modem was designed to be more 'stylish' than the 7000, the cabinet is tighter and one fan was removed. Apparently a systemic problem... lots of complaints. They admitted these issues should have been made known to me when I 'upgraded', but obviously were not. My average web browsing speeds probably are a little faster with the 9000, but that's not why I have this service. | |
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Review by hughesnetsu  Posted: 185 days ago member for 185 days, 1 visits, last login: 178 days ago
undisclosed location
Contract price not specified.
"ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HUGHES NET"
"ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HUGHES NET"
"ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HUGHES NET"
| |
Hi, To all the Hughes net sufferers, who have been somehow cheated wrongly informed or have been promised something which was never delivered. I am about to let you know how to give them back, what you deserve. I will let you know, everything there is to know about Hughes net (ISP). This article is referring to the following modem types: DW 4000, DW 6000, DW 7000, HN 7000, HN 7000S and HN 9000. I will discuss about the following: 1. FAP (Fair Access Policy) 2. Slow Speed (slow download/ slow upload/Speed disclaimer) 3. OOW (Out of Warranty work order / Out of warranty Modem) 4. Installers complain (Wrong installation done) 5. Email Issues (Webmail, Configuring Email client) 6. How to speak to advance tech support (Tier III)
FAP (FAIR ACCESS POLICY): This is what Hughes net has to say about it:
Some activities are more likely to exceed the download threshold and trigger the application of the Fair Access Policy (FAP). Several examples are listed below: Full-length movie downloads Peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing programs such as Napster, Kazaa or LimeWire Continuous downloading or viewing streaming media content such as audio or video programming Hosting of server devices such as email, FTP or Web servers Hosting computer applications such as Web camera feeds Automated computer to computer connections used for archiving of local computer content Extensive downloading of Usenet Newsgroups (NNTP) Use of BitTorrent applications Simultaneous file downloads Downloading large files (i.e., file sizes that are close in size to the download threshold of your service plan) Excessive downloading or use of the services described above may cause subscribers to be affected by the Fair Access Policy, or in severe cases, to be terminated from the service.
But for more info about it please visit this link. »www.hughes.com/HUGHES/Rooms/Disp···FA5369]]
The above information is all bullshit. What is FAP actually is, any hughesnet subscriber can only download a certain amount of megabyte in any 24 hrs according to their respective plan. That means that you can only use your internet connect for a certain time only. Now when I say 24 hrs it does not mean one day (Which everyone is confused about). It means your total download or internet usual should not exceed your total download threshold eg: 200 MB in the last 24 hrs. The 24 hrs is a cyclic clock and not a fixed 24 hr clock. When I say download it does not mean you have actually download data. Any internet usage done online eg: surfing website like google, chatting, playing game etc. You have an OPEN Window which is 3 am to 6 am EST. But most of the time the usage data recorded in incorrect. Even when you have turn off the P.C or the Hughes net modem still it will record some usage on it, which stats that the usage is very incorrect.
Now there is a good new for DW 4000, DW 6000, DW 7000, HN 7000 and HN 7000S users. Hughesnets technical support can deactivate the FAP for a customer twice in a month. So you can call the Technical support and tell them that, when the usage page shows data online the P.C and the modem is turned off. You dont use a router and the windows update or any other software update is turned off, because they will try to blame the router or the windows update. The technical support will reset the FAP for you on the call then a there. Do not get off the call until the FAP is deactivated, because if you are informed they will forward the info to someone or some other Dept then nothing is going to be done at all.
MORAL OF THE THIS STORY: Call up hughes net tech support has ask them to reset you FAP as they can do that. Twice in a month.
Slow Speed (slow download/ slow upload/Speed disclaimer): What Hughes net has to say about it? With the Home service plan, you can connect to the Internet with maximum download speeds up to 1.0 Mbps, with typical speeds about 550 Kbps to 650 Kbps during peak times. Upload speeds, which are capable of reaching 128 Kbps, are typically 70 Kbps to 80 Kbps during peak hours.
With the Pro plan, connect to the Internet with maximum download speeds of up to 1.2 Mbps, with typical speeds about 700 Kbps to 800 Kbps during peak times. Upload speeds, which are capable of reaching 200 Kbps, are typically 100 Kbps to 120 Kbps during peak hours.
With the Proplus plan, connect to the Internet with maximum download speeds of up to 1.6 Mbps, with typical speeds about 800 Kbps to 1.0 Mbps during peak times. Upload speeds, which are capable of reaching 250 Kbps, are typically 130 Kbps to 150 Kbps during peak hours.
With the Elite plan, connect to the Internet with maximum download speeds of up to 2.0 Mbps, with typical speeds about 1.0 Mbps to 1.2 Mbps during peak times. Upload speeds, which are capable of reaching 300 Kbps, are typically 165 Kbps to 180 Kbps during peak hours.
With the ElitePlus plan, connect to the Internet with maximum download speeds of up to 3.0 Mbps, with typical speeds about 1.6 Mbps to 1.8 Mbps during peak times. Upload speeds, which are capable of reaching 300 Kbps, are typically 165 Kbps to 180 Kbps during peak hours.
With the ElitePremium plan, connect to the Internet with maximum download speeds of up to 5.0 Mbps, with typical speeds about 2.7 Mbps to 3.0 Mbps during peak times. Upload speeds, which are capable of reaching 300 Kbps, are typically 165 Kbps to 180 Kbps during peak hours.
If you choose to run a VPN over your satellite service, your data speeds may be reduced by as much as 50-75%. In addition, we do not recommend using HughesNet® to run time-sensitive applications that require fractions-of-a-second user inputs (such as twitch gameplay or real-time equities trading).
For more info try this link: »www.gethughesnet.com/faqs.cfm
What I have to say about it: Hughes net connection speed sucks. All the Ads on the Television are lies.
You will always face slow connection speed with Hughes net and there is nothing you can do or they can do about it. Because it is that way the system is designed. Hughes net connection is based on SHARED BANDWITH. That means the entire HughesNet customers share the same band with available through HughesNet. So the more customer hughesnet has the lesser speed you individually you will get. Now when you will call Hughes net for any slow connection issue, let it be slow upload or slow download. All they (Tier 1) will do is they will ask you to delete your P.Cs Cache, cookies and browser history. Restart the P.C in SAFE MODE WITH NETWORKING. And at the end they will asked you to run the 5 Web response test back to back (not the SPEED TEST) but the response test. If the Web response test is any where below 12 then they will ask you to run the test for 2 days and call back. What it does is nothing. Just buy time. And when you call back after 2 days and after running the test all you will get is a SPEED DISCLAIMER. That is you will get no more. Because the web response test will most of the time will be below 12. So if you want to get the issue resolved then you have to speak to the ADVANCE TECH support. And the only way you can speak to Advance tech support is when you dont run the speed test. Inform the person that you cant run the speed test. Tell them as soon as you click on Initiate Web Response test you get the error Page cannot be displayed. And so they will transfer you to Advance tech support and then you can run the test and do the troubleshooting that is required. And after that you dont have to speak to tier I as you can refer you case number that you got from Tier III.
MORAL OF THIS STORY: DO WANT IS STATED IT ABOVE AND YOU WILL GET ISSUE RESOLVE OR CANCEL THE CONTRACT.
OOW (Out of Warranty work order / Out of warranty Modem): What Hughes net has to say about it? Hughes warrants to the original buyer that under normal use and wear the equipment used to access the Service (the Equipment), which includes the Indoor Unit (satellite modem), Power Supply, and Outdoor Unit (Antenna & Radio Assembly), will be free from defects in material and workmanship for a standard limited warranty term of 24 months* from the date of activation. Any Equipment replaced or repaired under this warranty will be warranted for the remainder of the original warranty period or thirty (30) days, whichever is longer. This warranty is not transferable. If under normal use and wear, the Equipment becomes defective in materials or workmanship during the warranty period set forth above, Hughes shall at its option and expense, perform one of the following: We will repair or replace the defective Equipment within thirty (30) days of the date the defective Equipment was returned to Hughes designated address at your expense, to cause it to comply with the terms of this Limited Warranty. Reconditioned replacement components, parts, units or materials may be used if the Equipment is repaired or replaced. If service to the Outdoor Unit (satellite antenna and transmitter) is required, Hughes will, at its expense, repair or replace it pursuant to the limited warranty for the first six months after installation. From six months to the end of your limited warranty period, Hughes will cover the cost of the replacement equipment, but the cost of the onsite service technician visit, if necessary, will be paid by you. You may request a price estimate prior to the work, based on the type of the replacement. If your satellite antenna needs to be re-pointed after the first 6 months of service, a standard onsite visit fee will be charged to you. Reconditioned replacement components, parts, units or materials may be used if the Equipment is repaired or replaced. We may upgrade the Equipment to a later-generation product that performs the same function and complies with the terms of this Limited Warranty. THESE ARE YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDIES FOR DEFECTS DURING THE WARRANTY PERIOD IN ANY EQUIPMENT COVERED BY THE LIMITED WARRANTY. To request Limited Warranty service you must contact Hughes Customer Service, toll-free, at 1-866-347-3292 within the Limited Warranty period. For more info check the link: »www.hughes.com/HUGHES/Rooms/Disp···A0297F]]
What I have to say about it: Keep a check on your warranty status check when it is going to expire. People whose warranty status is still active nothing to worry. But for those whose warranty status has expired there are options: 1. Sign up for an Express repair home so instead of paying $125 for the Out of warranty work order you will only pay $99. 2. Ask for credits ask the tech person for credit speak to the sup and his sup till you get the credit that does not mean you get for 1-2 week. Credit means you should get the whole credit for the work order. 3. If there was a tech sent out to your location in the last 6 mths then you have put an installer complain that the installation was not done correctly and they will have to send a tech out free. 4. Speak with the Retentions dpt and ask them to waive off the charge, they can do that.
MORAL OF THIS STORY: HUGHES NET WILL AND SHOULD SEND A TECH OUT FREE. SPEAK WITH A SUPERVISOR AND IF REQUIRED SPEAK TO HIS.
Installers complain (Wrong installation done):
What Hughes net has to say: Nothing they dont have anything to say. But we can get them. What I have to say about it: Well you can only file an Installer complain if the installation was done in the last 6 months. If you think that the installer has not done his job properly, which is true most of the time or if the installer was rude to you. Call up technical support and file an installer complain speak to supervisor in this scenario. What you can do is call them up and tell them that the installer did not install the antenna in the right position, it is pointing toward the tree or something else. The antenna is not fixed right it keeps on shaking or moving when there is wind. The cables are lying in front of the lawn or it is not put underground. When the complain is filed and you are given a case number, you will get a call back within 48 hrs from the install escalation dpt. In this case always speak with a Supervisor.
MORAL OF THIS STORY: HUGHES NET WILL AND SHOULD SEND A TECH OUT FREE. SPEAK WITH A SUPERVISOR AND IF REQUIRED SPEAK TO HIS.
Email Issues (Webmail, Configuring Email client): What Hughes net has to say about it: We dont support this we dont support that.
What I have to say about it: If you face any issue with your email. First check if you are able to access you emails from the webmail that is: »home.myhughesnet.com/ Try to sign and check your email, check if you are able to send and receive emails from this website. If you are then Hughes net will say everything is OK. And will refer you to someone else. So try to configure the Email client (Outlook/ Outlook Express etc) by yourself. If you need help in it try the link: »www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/email/config/ Other than that you will require. Incoming server: mail.hughes.net Outgoing server: smtp.hughes.net Username: (This will be you complete email address) Leave the rest as it is. For more info check other links: »screenshots.modemhelp.net/naviga···clients/ »www.chasms.com/
MORAL OF THIS STORY: TRY TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE BY YOURSELF AND IF HAVE TO CALL TECH SUPPORT SPEAK WITH A SUPERVISOR AS THEY KNOW WHAT THEY DO.
How to speak to advance tech support (Tier III): What Hughes net has to say about it: We cant transfer you to Tier III, Sorry you will have to troubleshoot the whole thing again. What I have to say about it: Following are the ways to speak to Tier III: 1. If you have spoken to tier III in the last 7 days refer the case number. And if they refuse to transfer tell them you refuse to troubleshoot and want to speak to tier III only. Speak with the supervisor and he will authorize the transfer. 2. If you have spoken to Tier III much prior to 7 last then. When they ask you to open the System Control Center by: 192.168.0.1. They will ask you to ask you to provide the Transmit status. Give the transmit status as TX code 9. What they will try to do is switch off the modem and restart it. What ever they do you have to say that the Transmit status is still TX code 9. And they will transfer you to Advance technical support. You can try this even during the Troubleshooting.
Other tips for all you Hughes users: IF YOU CHECK YOU SYSTEM CONTROL CENTER (TYPE 192.168.0.1 in your address bar), check your system status. If your TX code is 6 or 7: you need to re point the antenna and at the end send a tech out or speak to advance tech support. 10 or 13: you will need a tech at your location. 9: you need to speak to Advance tech support. 24: your transmit cable or the transmitter has an issue. You need a tech out.
And one more thing: SPEAK TO THE SUPERVISORS as they know what they are doing. And the reps have no idea what the issue all about.
For any feedback or any info contact me on: hughesnetsucks@gmail.com
Followup comments:   HughesNetBites
@ctsmail.net | Hughesnet bites... As soon as my contract expires, I'm getting rid of them. Absolutely the worst customer service I have ever experienced. | |
|  rkeyes
join:2009-06-03 Pulaski, MS
| I agree with the speeds I am a Hughesnet customer and I concur with the speeds listed here. I've suffered with them for over two years. I am down to 63 down and 35 up during peak hours as of yesterday. Calls to tech support are pointless since the tech I spoke to admits they are overloaded and these speeds are the best they can do. Does anyone have any real world information on speeds offered by Wildblue during "peak" hours? | |
|   MMadMan
@myvzw.com
| Another dis-satisfied customer
Thanks to "hughesnetsu" for his/her informative post. That's some good info.
For the last 7 months my download speeds have been clocked at 1.2MB download and 250kbs up for the $70 plan at »www.speedtest.net. Unfortunately, the experienced speed is much slower because download and upload speed does not capture the LATENCY that all satellite systems inherently have. Please consider all options before satellite (especially cellular if available) and if satellite is necessary DON'T PURCHASE HUGHES!
If I could go back and do it again I would not pay $550 dollars up front and $70/month to have terrible customer service, faulty hardware that failed one month after the warranty expired, and perhaps worst of all, installers that did a terrible job penetrating my roof and drilling holes in my walls. I kid not, the installer actually put a cigarette butt out on the newly installed dish and crammed it behind the transmitter. It is here to this day...
Instead of paying for another technician or arguing for a free service call, I'm going to pay the $400 cancellation fee so I will be released from the worst contract I've ever been a part of (Before I thought AT+T was bad but now I might call them up for fun) | |
|  sylent1
join:2008-11-20 Kincaid, KS
| Avoid Hughesnet if you have any other choice I hope that people read this, learn the truth and avoid Hughesnet. I've been a customer since they were Direcway and had connection issues. I was told they no longer supported the DW 4000 and must upgrade. I purchased the upgrade and still could not connect. They sent out a tech that cost $100 and while he was here I found out they had arbitrarily retasked me to a satellite I was not pointed at. So the upgrade and the hundred dollar tech call was solely because of them. These people should be run out of business or get hit with a class action suit that bankrupts them. | |
|   BecW
@direcpc.com
| Yes, HughesNet sucks! For the 3rd time this year, I am having a problem where my usage page doesn't show up. This wouldn't be a huge deal if I wasn't always teetering close to fair access. To top things off, now it is counting usage during the FAP-exempt period into my total usage. I went over FAP at 4 a.m. -- shouldn't be possible! Even if it was possible, 3-6 or 2-7 (the website says different things in different places), I should have full speed during this EXEMPT time. Not so. So far it has been 6 days of talking to incompetant idiots. Even Tier 4 is NOT impressing me. If you have another option, please choose it over HughesNet -- the service really does suck. If I could get anything else, I would. I am lobbying hard for cable. | |
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Review by Road Runner  UPDATED: 185 days ago member for 5.7 years, 345 visits, last login: 2 days ago
Morrilton,Conway,AR
Contract price not specified.
"It beats Dial-Up."
"Having to reboot the Modem often. Tech Support is worthless."
"If any other Broadband was available in my area, I would dump Hughes in a heartbeat."
| Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Mail,DNS,News: Value for money: (ratings match consensus)
|
There are no other options in my area for Broadband or I would jump on it.
I've got the basic package at $60.00 a month.
Ordering the equipment was flawless, but the installer didn't ground the dish right. Found this out a couple of years later when I had another installer to come out to realign the dish. He fixed the ground then.
My first equipment was the DW4000 in 2003. Since then I have upgraded Modems 3 times and currently have the HN7000S Modem.
The good experiences is that it beats Dial-Up. The bad is Tech Support is worthless.
Followup comments:   Outraged
@wiktel.com
| Hughesnet Thank You ..I was just about to sign up for the service .moving to the middle of nowhere .no other option .but after reading all these reviews , looks like i will be emailing my son overseas from the local library computer from now on. Not as nice as IM i admit but better than being robbed. We are on a fixed income and could certainly not afford any of those outrageous prices and fees.We would have gone bankrupt i fear.I sure hope other people take the time to check out these reviews before they too get trapped ..so to everyone who gave us the heads up ..THANKS !!! | |
|  |   Road Runner
join:2004-03-19 Morrilton, AR | Re: Hughesnet Your welcome. Glad I could help!!! | |
|  |   preebo2
@1dial.com
| Glad I could help...I wish I had taken the time to research, instead I swept away by their 30 second love story they call a commercial. They gave examples of how they were up to 50 times faster than dial up and service connection was unlimited.
I quickly found out that "always on" connection meant 6 to 20k transfer rate where dial up is an average 40 to 55k. You get faster service most of the time with dial up at less than 15 bucks a month than you will with hughesnet at 70 bucks a month plus a 200 dollar or more setup charge. | |
|   Sticky
@pbtcomm.net
| Wow. I appreciate all this. I have been wanting high speed internet for a couple of years - much in the same way a 15 year old boy wants to move out of his parents house and live with a hot playboy model - it would be awesome, but I've been surviving on occassional dial-up ISPs. It's like going out to the bar to get drunk, only it's one hour before closing time - not enough. I wanted to make sure that I wouldn't be paying 60 dollars just to get callously raped by some India-based made-in-taiwan internet bully. My g/f and her friend say their computers run at about 2 MPS. so I ran some speed tests on my company's work computer to see that it runs about 1 MPS which is decently fast. Some sites claimed to be able to control speeds of up to 10mps for cable internet. I realize the truth of this - if you're patched straight into the main T-line and have an unrestricted modem (or so I've heard). It would be the difference between being hopped up on effedrin and mainlining meth. While you will enjoy the speed of meth, you're a fool to think you can get away with it for long before the police put the pincers on you - and your probability of getting tased is quite high. I'm a gamer, but moved back home in the wilderness, so options were limited. So I reasoned that Hughes net at 1mps for 60 bucks was as well as DSL or cable at 1 to 2 mps for about the same price. I finally broke down and decided to get Hughes net.
But I'm smart. I'm not your average speed junkie. In fact, I don't do speed, but I can appreciate the metaphor. I decided to check out the reviews. Like Don Trump, I'm not likely to feast at a high-end restaraunt before reading the food critics' reviews. Of course, I've made enough spontaneous bad purchases in life to realize the value of reading reviews before proceeding. So, thank you all for these horrible reviews. I now know that I should not invest my money into Hughes Net. It would be a mistake. Like visiting the dentist in "Little Shop of Horrors" or betting on a horse named Limpy at the Churchill Downs. Thank you for saving me from signing a contract with a money-leeching, morally-depraved industry that preys on people in need. You have spared me a horror and saved me from aging an extra 3 years. | |
|  |   preebo2
@1dial.com | Re: Wow. Great post... keep doing your homework before you sign on the line. I wish I had. | |
|   Wild Bill
@bricker.com
| Getting off of Hughes.net I am experimenting with Verizon's new Mi-Fi 2200 hot spot (wireless router about the size of a credit card). I have learned that I have wireless coverage at our remote location now, where I have been on Hughes for the past several years, none of which have been a very good experience. I will check back in a couple of weeks after I have run some speed tests, but for now I am running both systems. Early indications are that I can shut down the Hughes dish and get rid of the slow uploads once and for all. Stay tuned. | |
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Review by jyc_orozco Posted: 191 days ago (review was emailed from domain yahoo.com)
Morgan Hill,Santa Clara,CA
Contract price not specified.
"none to speak of"
"never delivered fast internet as promised even at $85.00 per month!"
"extremely dissapointed and frustrated, no recourse, felt taken."
| Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Mail,DNS,News: Value for money: (ratings match consensus)
|
We opted to pay the additional money ($85.00) per month so as to have an enjoyable web browsing experience. HughesNet never delivered. We complained almost emmeadiately but made the mistake of keeping it untill we just could'nt take it any more. We preffered paying the $300 penalty to get rid of their service and now enjoy much faster internet with competitor at $49 per month! If you have other options, I would reccomend that everyone stay away from HughesNet.
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Review by mom210  Posted: 193 days ago member for 193 days, 0 visits, last login: 193 days ago
Prichard,Wayne,WV
Contract price not specified.
"None"
"Hughes net is horrible"
"considering moving elsewhere."
| Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Mail,DNS,News: Value for money: (ratings below consensus)
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Ok I'm not sure this text box will be large enough to list all the problems I have with hughesnet. First, the installer showed up a day before he was supposed to, (too bad we were home) Then when he ran the line from the dish to the computer, he didn't even leave enough line to move the modem at all, on the outside it comes up from the ground about 4 feet from the side of the house and is pulled tight across that part of the yard like a guide wire on a telephone pole.
AS far as speed goes, by the time you get done with their blocks and slow downs( which I wasn't told about before I bought it), dial up seems fast. 1/2 the time you can't even log in to your accounts. You also have to get up between 3 & 6 am to download anything and you can pretty much forget going on youtube for videos or playing online games unless you want to be kicked off the internet for 24 hrs. Which begs the question....WHAT IS THE POINT OF HAVING INTERNET? Apparently Hughesnet thinks it's customers have loads of cash to blow on a box with pretty flashing lights, because using it for anything else just gets your connection restricted.
Price.....well it's nothing shy of ridiculous(esp. when you don't get much for it) ...59.99 and thats as cheap as it gets.
Customer support.....SUCKS...I have only had hughesnet for about 3 weeks and have had to call customer service 3 times already, all 3 times I got some indian guy with a conspicuously american name, and I'm almost sure the only english word they know is down load manager. All my problems lie in my down load manager apparently....." my internet won't work"........"hmmmm.....oh yes .....download manger"
" I can't log in to my e-mail"........"hmmm....oh yes....download manager" Please explain to me why it is that if I am paying $60 a month for an internet connection, I CAN'T USE IT WHEN EVER I FLIPPIN' FEEL LIKE IT! And who has time to get up at 3 am and take care of everything then? If you download a download manager then you get the boot for the next 24hrs. so that's a perfect solution, customer support, thanks for all your wonderful help...ppppffftttt.!!! I am trying to run a web site here, it's impossible with this company.
IF YOU ARE CONSIDERING HUGHESNET FOR YOUR INTERNET COMPANY.....RECONSIDER, IF YOU HAVE NO OTHER OPTIONS, LIKE MYSELF, CONSIDER SELLING, MOVING AND GETTING ANY THING ELSE.
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Review by flyingrose  UPDATED: 196 days ago member for 5.5 years, 24 visits, last login: 170 days ago
Kaufman,Kaufman,TX
Contract price not specified.
"Hasn't worked well enough to know if it has any"
"Unreliable, slow, 10 hour system outage Sunday; down again Monday"
"HN9000 is FAR worse than original Earthlink equipment way back when!"
| Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Mail,DNS,News: Value for money: (ratings match consensus)
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I do NOT recommend HughesNet for anyone! Even if dial-up is all you can get it is NOT worth the aggravation - and you'll get more done with dial-up! You'll get more work done on dial-up. There is probably an independent wireless company near you but they aren't good at making themselves easy to find. Try the WISP database and Yahoo! Local. Then call 3gstore.com and ask about your cellular wireless options.
UPDATE 05/23/09 It was bad then and is far worse now. I have not been able to do any constructive work for going on two weeks. Every time my connection is throttled there will be many others cussing HughesNet at Twitter. (Just search Twitter for Hughesnet.) Someone finally started a Class Action lawsuit out in California and it looks like there need to be many more.
Contract price $0 down, $20/month for 24 months to pay for the equipment. Up to 1 meg for $59.99/mo. Reseller did NOT mention $125 cash up front extra for installation even though I specifically asked.
I was on the waiting list to get one of the original Earthlink (Hughes satellite) systems way back when. That system worked well even when it rained and in two different physical locations. After two different local wireless companies and DSL I moved again and went with HughesNet HN9000 and so far I truly regret it. Maybe they just don't have the bugs out of the new satellite(s) yet? Or this equipment?
I've had it a little over a week and so far it has never worked right. Tech support doesn't understand speedtests show "normal" (780.20 Kbps to 1.29Mbps) but pages can take 3-5 minutes to load. The third time I called the recording indicated that the HN9000 system was down for all users. Hours later that message was replaced with one indicating a system outage from midnight until 10 a.m. that night. Finally it worked fairly well - until it started gently raining and it went down again.
Tech support now tells me I've hit the "fair usage" limit and will have speeds slower than dial-up (which I confirmed here) for the next 24 hours - unless I would like to get online from 2 a.m. until 6 a.m. Since I don't download movies, video, books, or any other files of that type I didn't expect to run into that limit. I hit it either trying to update from Ubuntu 7.20 to 8.04 or when using ftp to edit a Web site for some friends. Tech support tells me even if I upgrade to the 3 meg option (at $189 a month!) I'll still hit the fair usage issue.
Trying to send this review, the system went down again. Tech support voicemail is again playing this message (which is the same as the one over the weekend): "We are currently experiencing a degradation of service. This degradation is impacting customers using the HN9000 system on a home plan." Degradation = up and down, doesn't load pages, takes 4-5 minutes to load one page, etc.
Anyone have any inside information on whether they're going to get these issues resolved or I need to take the loss ($125 for pole install) and use the money back guarantee and go with local wireless instead? I went with HughesNet because the local wireless company had a two week backlog and HughesNet was offering a $100 rebate plus $0 down up front which made them less expensive.
Followup comments:  Bluenote
join:2008-01-24 Silsbee, TX
·HughesNet Satellit..
| Tech Support ? flyingrose I feel your frustration all too well. If it is not too late, you may want to reconsider the Hughesnet alternative. I think you have 30 days or so as I recall. Drop it, and try something else if it's available. I am approaching my last two months of the contract and I am looking forward to dropping Hughesnet in the dirt, reasons are too numerous. The first 9 months of the Hughesnet were not all that bad...but then... Janurary started a newer trend of ripping off their customers. I have complained to the BBB and the Atty General of Maryland which finally got some actions taken by customer support if you want to call it that, however, after a month or two the service was back to near dialup speeds most of the time with the exception of say 11 pm to 2 am. I have had tech support here at the house on two occasions, both times for new equipment and a repoint, all to no avail. Overloaded bandwidth is their bottom line. Yes it looks like they have oversold their bandwidth and continue to take on unsuspecting customers everyday, I do know that a business will not last much longer doing people this way. I am exhausted from their BS and intend to go with Verizon...perhaps the dish will make a decent birdbath? Brace yourself for a rough ride, or perhaps learn a new language to talk with their "support" group. I wish you better luck than I had, and hope that your service eventually gets to "Normal" | |
|  |  iansltx
join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO | Re: Tech Support ? Get the WiSP NOW!
99% of terrestrial ISPs (including WiSPs) have better support than HughesNet. Nobody should use Satellite internet unless all other options are unavailable, and they can't amortize a T1 across a few friends... | |
|  |  |  bastnpny
join:2008-05-26 Morgan, TX
·HughesNet Satellit..
| Re: Tech Support ? Run as fast as you can to your nearest wireless ISP. It will be worth it in he long run. You do not want to be stuck in a contract for a service that is not working after only one week. I feel your pain. At least you have an alternative. I lives west of you and have no other alternative right now. | |
|  |  |  |  flyingrose
join:2004-05-27 Lott, TX
·HughesNet Satellit..
| Thanks for the replies Thanks for the replies. I managed to get out from under FAP and upgrade to the $119/mo. 500meg version. Except for having to stay up all night a couple of times to upgrade Ubuntu, I haven't hit the limit.
I would have only been up one night but Hughes failed to actually upgrade me the first time I requested it so I aborted the download to avoid getting fapped again. The Ubuntu update was 600+ meg so I had to download during the window and stay up in case there were prompts to be answered.
I am only averaging 6-9 meg an hour doing research and blogging but that is partially because I have not yet figured out how to get video working under Ubuntu and I've been cautious about downloading anything.
Web designers should include a visible size of any downloads including .pdf files they use online so those under fap can decide whether to access them or not.
While researching I have come across information that makes it appear that limits may be coming soon to DSL and cable too. | |
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Review by MichaelRS  UPDATED: 204 days ago member for 3.4 years, 51 visits, last login: 191 days ago
Half Moon Bay,San Mateo,CA
Contract price not specified.
"Nice speed between 9PM and 8AM"
"Customer No-Service, slower than dial up when you need it, FAP"
"Pathetic, consider moving instead!"
| Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Mail,DNS,News: Value for money: (ratings match consensus)
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No alternative to satellite, T-1 is still a bit pricey (not for long), ProPlan with .98 dish and 2W Transmitter. Order was speedy as to be expected from money thirsty scalpers, install was fine.
HughesNet is disinforming and disingenious about the issues in their system and how they use traffic shaping. Marketing is misleading and deceptive. Advertised speeds are not real. Actual speeds are affected by overloaded transmitters and intentional curtailling as follows:
7:30AM-9:30PM: 32-170 kbps, 9:30PM-7:30AM: 1450-1500kbps
Pick your poison!
Note on Traffic Shaping:
This seems to become a more common practice with Internet providers and HN has a number of relevant patents on that. They do that admittingly in Europe. Also, such thing tagged as QoS is a "feature" in routers such as the WRT54GL or DIR-655 or 825N. There it is used, i.e. with open firmware to prioritize things such as HD media streams and VoIP and gaming. and selectively slow down non-priority content streams.
Same can be experienced on HN when attempting to download YouTube or other media clips as opposed to HTML pages. What HN does is to evaluate and monitor the respective streams and then selectively slow down streams they deem wasteful (torrents, video, VoIP, all etc.) as opposed to plain HTML pages (which is why they like to fool you into taking time on loading yahoo/google pages).
In realizing that HN does this and is likely doing it on a individual IP# basis (i.e. the punish individual users for bad behavior) this whole satellite internet thing has run its course and hits a brick wall.
Update:
Tech support budged after calling Executive Customer Care and determined that my equipment is fine and they will move to a different satellite. Satmex 6 is a terrible satellite and they have 8+ transponder on Satmex 5. I am now there where I started 6 years ago with a DW4020. Speeds are decent even at 4PM PDT (700-1.5 down). I did fork over the extra money for 2-Day service and the installer for the repoint was indeed out three days later (Wed-> Fri). He was the one who did the original install and does a fine job.
Attachments:
Followup comments:  oscarwilde1
join:2008-10-08 | A tad more detail for the technically deficent? If you don't mind, could you elaborate on what the graph represents, for the not quite bright of us who know Hughes.net does not work as advertised, but have no idea what this means? With,uh, crayons? Please. | |
|  MichaelRS
join:2006-06-10 Half Moon Bay, CA
·HughesNet Satellit..
| Legend The chart represents the download speeds at various times during the day over a very recent seven day period. Essentially you see that from 7:30 AM to 9:00 PM this system here is down to 56-180kbps downlink speed, whereas, magically, just a few minutes earlier or later, respectively, the downlink speed is at 1500kbps. With 5% accuracy the data matches HN's own speed test, but this data here is from automated testing. This may not apply to everyone, but is current on the SatMex 6, 1250 MHz transponder. -- HN7000S - Satmex 6 - was 1210, now 1250 (May '08) - 0.98m / 2W dish - HughesNet ProPlus | |
|  |  oscarwilde1
join:2008-10-08 | Re: Legend Thank you very much for explaining. "oops, people are using it! Turn it down until they go away!"  | |
|  |  flyingrose
join:2004-05-27 Lott, TX
·HughesNet Satellit..
| Re: Which is the good satellite you're on now?
Michael,
Could you please be specific about what satellite you are now on and how to display what satellite I am currently on? I do not see the information displayed as someone in another thread described.
Whatever HughesNet satellite I am currently on is terrible. I have been unable to do constructive work for over a week and have a collection of their case numbers to show for it. I had one of the original two-way Earthlink dishes and moved it to another location and had it pointed at the same satellite and never had these issues back then.
I have had the HN9000 equipment for less than a year; it has never worked really well and lately it doesn't work more than it does. When they throttle it they don't mess around - pages won't load, everything times out, work is lost and receive and transmit errors climb.
I have tried to get transfered to second level three times tonight. Each time I wait over 10 minutes and get disconnected. If I can find out what satellite works I'm going to see if I can get moved to it. | |
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Review by oscarwilde1  UPDATED: 205 days ago member for 1.1 years, 117 visits, last login: 44 days ago
Hallsboro,Columbus,NC
Contract price not specified.
"its all we can get"
"everything"
"Severe pain and suffering daily"
| Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Mail,DNS,News: Value for money: (ratings below consensus)
|
I pay $119 a month for pro plus from hughes.net. I also have a fatal neurodegenerative disorder. The hughes.net is more painful. And slower. All I can do is wait and pray for DSL.
Feb. 2009 We now have DSL. Thank God. Trying to get Hughes.net to cancel service is (of course) turning into a nightmare. We just had to fax them a written request to discontinue service (on "company letterhead"), they refuse to allow us to return the equipment for a $200 rebate (as it states we are supposed to be able to do on their website). We're really not looking forward to weeks of wrangling just to get them to turn it off and bill us the $400 fee...take my money let me OUT!
Feb, later -after being still unable to connect with a human who can cancel service,and getting cut off multiple times I contacted FCC, State Attorney Generals office,The Congressional Internet Caucus Advisory Committee and pretty much anyone else who would hold still long enough -finally obtained a US number. Person at US office seemed oddly clueless about actual conditions in the field, but attempted to be helpful after some blustering (our accounting dept is female and felt blustered at, I was simply annoyed). Service is now supposed to be canceled, and we are supposed to be allowed to return equipment. Removed authorization for payment from credit card. This required more faxing. Quite a process! Reminds me of Hotel California "You can check out any time you like/But you can never leave"
March-NOW we're getting somewhere-I think? Got mailing labels from Hughes. with a peculiarly phrased but informative letter, and a separate bill for $375. Packed all equipment sufficient to survive a direct hit from a nuke and sent it back (with tracking, of course). Perhaps this will end soon...or not...the letter indicated that the equipment was to be replaced which makes me worry that more will appear. I'm amazed that the process is so adversarial.
Whew! finally...it looks like we've been credited for the equipment, and will only owe $175 . The main thing I learned from this experience is to contact the US office directly when discontinuing service. All you will get from overseas customer service is confused and highly irritated. Once my stress related rash clears up, Hughes.net will fade to nothing but a bad dream....
NOOOOOOO! The nightmare continues...Its been over two months since I was finally able to cancel service. I paid what they asked, I returned the equipment carefully, I thought it was over....but no... Now they have started sending me paper bills for $-200 (negative two hundred dollars)That is right, negative. I'm doomed, doomed as doomed can be. I just know they are going to take me to a collection agency for my negative balance (that sounds insane, since a negative balance means that they owe you, but I know people who have been sent to collections for hospital bills with a negative balance, instead of getting a refund, its the way some systems treat any outstanding balance). I'm terrified of calling them to ask them why they are doing this.
Plus any inquiries will take hours, if not days, on the phone.
There is no escape.
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate"
Followup comments:   Hazy Arc
join:2006-04-10 Greenwood, SC | I don't know whether to laugh or what... Not making fun of your situation or anything, but I'm sorry...your comment is quite funny. | |
|  |  oscarwilde1
join:2008-10-08 | Re: I don't know whether to laugh or what... Thanks! Glad I hit the right note!  | |
|   jadebangle Premium join:2007-05-22 Olathe, KS | Thats pretty bad company and expensive too
nearly 4 time as much bad review as good one 100+ positive 400+ negative I wonder how they stay in business | |
|  |  oscarwilde1
join:2008-10-08
·Embarq
·HughesNet Satellit..
| Re: Thats pretty bad company and expensive too said by jadebangle :I wonder how they stay in business They only operate in areas where people have absolutely no alternatives for internet service. If any other form of internet becomes available,people cease to use them. | |
|  |  |  darkmagic
join:2009-02-17 Waterville, VT
·HughesNet Satellit..
| Re: Thats pretty bad company and expensive too they stay in business because for some of us, they are the only option. That and whenever anyone tries to get out of it, they come up with all these bogus fees for early termination so people stay with them. You'd think they'd change with all the complaints, but nothing gets done about it. They get away with it | |
|  |  |  |  channelzero0
join:2008-12-15 Lincoln, MO | Re: Thats pretty bad company and expensive too "...take my money let me OUT!"
LOL it must be pretty bad. I came within a few hours of calling Hughs and getting there internet before I came across Altell and have thanks my lucky stars ever since. | |
|  |  |  |  |  darkmagic
join:2009-02-17 Waterville, VT
·HughesNet Satellit..
| Re: Thats pretty bad company and expensive too our service was out for 2 wks (2nd time in 6 months). They credited us $32, but a week later tacked on another month's bill of $74.99. We got talked into upgrading the modem which took almost 3 weeks to get here. We haven't hooked it up for fear we will lose what slow service we already have lol. I ask if it can get any worse, but after reading alot of these posts, I KNOW it can and prob will. I just have a feeling once we plug in that modem (a modem I didn't need since my internet magically came back on once i agreed to upgrade), I have a feeling we will end up having to contact useless tech support who prob won't know how to set up their own modem | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  channelzero0
join:2008-12-15 Lincoln, MO | Re: Thats pretty bad company and expensive too These satellite companies sound like the same scum coming from those "check into cash" and cash advance stores.
The Italian mob prolly have better codes of ethics than these sat internet companies. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  channelzero0
join:2008-12-15 Lincoln, MO | Re: Thats pretty bad company and expensive too WE THE PEOPLE ARE PISSED!!! | |
|  |   suomynonA
@direcpc.com | By being one of the few providers to people like me who have no choice whatsoever... it's satelitte or nothing, hell even dialup for us requires a long distance call now. the last of the local dialup providers sunk last month. | |
|  |  |  channelzero0
join:2008-12-15 Lincoln, MO | Re: Thats pretty bad company and expensive too That amazing, I was under the impression that there were still local dialing numbers anywhere in the States. | |
|   Tech
@comcast.net
| people are dumb Those of you bashing tech support because your too stupid to set up the equipment can piss off. We work hard to help customers, but some are so slow in the brain the simplest task is painstaking
How but you read and educate yourself on what satellite internet is before you sign the contract? Durrrr | |
|  |  oscarwilde1
join:2008-10-08
·Embarq
·HughesNet Satellit..
2 edits | Re: people are dumb It is the installers responsibility to "set up" the equipment, not mine, I'm just the consumer . Hughes.net is not exactly forthcoming about the drawbacks to the service, if they were more clear about its limitations perhaps people would not be so disappointed. Their ads are highly misleading. Also, who is "we" and what do you feel that you do to help consumers? How does the consumer get in touch with you to receive this help? I never spoke to anyone in the US prior to discontinuing service, indeed I had no idea how to contact them as that information is not readily available, nor did I have any idea who installed my first dish, as they insisted on being paid in cash and left no contact info. | |
|  |   preebo2
@1dial.com
| Durr... I read the contract and have a copy of it and it has nothing about Fair Policy Use.... You are a moron and the truth hurts about customer service. That's why you are so pissed.
TEKSPORT wut be number? ID too or propblem?
Can you understand that? That is what English speaking people have to deal with when they pay an outrages price for a product that claims to have customer support.... DUUURRRRRRR
Get a life Tech and start treating customers fair and honestly instead of calling them dumb. It only shows how stupid you are. | |
|  |  |  oscarwilde1
join:2008-10-08
·Embarq
·HughesNet Satellit..
| Re: people are dumb said by preebo2 :
Get a life Tech and start treating customers fair and honestly instead of calling them dumb. It only shows how stupid you are. I actually think its quite nice of him to give potential customers an idea of what they can expect from customer service.  | |
|  ruckusronn Premium join:2009-03-28 Montague, CA | and I was gonna get hughes net?...don't think so! ..real sorry ya had to go through all that,makes hari-cari sound like fun! guess i'll stick to my tried and true small telecom company. its slow 1.5mbps but always there! slow and steady wins the race right? good luck! | |
|  |  oscarwilde1
join:2008-10-08
·Embarq
·HughesNet Satellit..
| Re: and I was gonna get hughes net?...don't think so! said by ruckusronn :.. guess i'll stick to my tried and true small telecom company. its slow 1.5mbps but always there! slow and steady wins the race right? good luck! Hey,that is faster than I ever got on hughes, and I was paying $119 a month. You're certainly making the right descision sticking with your current internet provider. | |
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Review by cliffclof  Posted: 210 days ago member for 210 days, 0 visits, last login: 210 days ago
Gabbs,Nye,NV
Contract price not specified.
"Any good points about this company came from a subcontracted installer."
"Router/Modem has limited options - Tech Support is not smart or very helpful - Structure of company is lame."
"Not unless you have to. Look hard for alternatives."
| Pre Sales information: Install Co-ordination: Connection reliability: Tech Support: Value for money: (ratings match consensus)
|
I considered T1, DSL, ISDN, and Others.
Am currently looking into more options now. The quick version, latency is high mostly from Hughesnet's data center being on the east coast and routing through BFE's to get anywhere. Speed of a single file request is fast when you pay for it. They advertise with yahoo using their DNS servers when you type in wrong addresses. Key websites sometimes think you are a bot or hacker because of the network structure. Tech support is not much support. The company seems very disorganized. They make you test your speed with their speed test, which is fast, but is inside their datacenter before you seem to be throttled down accessing the internet. I'm not sure if half the people working for them have heard of space.
Overall don't expect a lot and you'll be satisfied. It is much faster than dial-up and worth the switch if you can afford it. Be prepared for some headaches.
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