Review by dplantz - Location: Roslindale, Suffolk, MA, USA
- Cost: $23 per month (month by month)
- Install: about 5 days
Great Voice Quality, Features that Comcast does not have, great tech support Goes down every so often Great value for the money, us based tech support
| Web-site: Ease of Installation: Call Quality: Reliability: Tech Support: Value for money:
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Update: 10/9/11 Added another adaptor on my network for my Housemates PhonePower Line and everything is working well . I ordered Phone Power after reading the reviews at DSL Reports. I wanted a cheaper phone service than RCN after my promo ran out. I have had voip since 2003 when I got Vonage. I have saved a ton of money using voip and love the features that pots does not have. I have tried many voip companies over the last few years and wish that you could have ported numbers sooner than we could have. Phone Power is one of those set and forget voip providers. I had issues when I got my ata, but tech support got me up in running in less than an hour of re-configureing the hardware. I love the feature set and the fact that I have outgoing caller id with name. I am moving my line back to phone power again, I need the ability to block telemarketers that won't leave messages and call too often, which RCN does not support. I am also getting to ready to move in a few months and want to take my number with me once I move to CO. My number has ported to PhonePower and is working correctly now. It took a day to fix odd issues that happened on the port day. PhonePower customer service reps are very polite and helpful. member for 23.6 years, 8367 visits, last login: a few hours ago updated 12.4 years ago
Review by LeBonier - Location: Forest Park, Cook, IL, USA
- Cost: $15 per month
Works just fine. Device doesn't last forever. Had some policy hiccups, but once the right people hear about issues, they are fixed quickly.
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All issues have been resolved. A bad device was the source of my problem, it had nothing to do with my ISP or connection. I signed up before Phone Power changed their policy to not support wireless connections like Clearwire. I encountered a tech that would not even look to see if there was a non-ISP related issue. It had to be the ISP. That sent me over the edge. Just check the other possible problems, right? No. They absolutely refused. Finally, I got through to Justin Murphy at Phone Power. Immediately he said that he would put someone on it. A tech named Chris contacted me quickly and determined that my device was bad in seconds. New device sent out, quick phone call, service working A-OK. This company cares about its customers and has a good product. Sometimes you hit some stumbling blocks until you find the right people to talk to at companies like Phone Power. All's well that ends well. member for 12.5 years, driveby review (so far) updated 12.5 years ago
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Hot summer.What PhonePower is telling you about VoIP over wireless internet is correct.
I understand that you may have every reason to be quite disgruntled, but it is important to understand that things probably wouldn't be different with any other VoIP provider.
Now:
You said that you discussed this extensively with PhonePower.
Did you discuss it with Clearwire?!
How do you know that this isn't a Clearwire issue, or something that THEY changed?
Are you aware that Clearwire is starting in some areas to offer its own type of phone service?
Are you aware that a while back, the large VoIP company Vonage was in a big fight with Clearwire, accusing Clearwire of blocking outside VoIP? | |
| | nitzan Premium Member join:2008-02-27 |
nitzan
Premium Member
2011-Aug-20 4:25 pm
Re: Hot summer.said by PX Eliezer704:What PhonePower is telling you about VoIP over wireless internet is correct. Not necessarily. I can see quality being very bad at times due to wireless - but the problem he's describing specifically doesn't seem to be related to packet loss or jitter. In all likelihood his adapter is just malfunctioning - it sounds exactly like an issue we've had with a past customer. Replacing the adapter fixed the problem. | |
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Re: Hot summer.Nitzan, that is an excellent point. But the tech support guy (who was very patient) asked the customer to try the adapter on another internet connection, and the customer refused! The closest thing I can do is if you take the adapter to another location with a wired broadband service. If it works fine there, then we know it is the ISP. If it still has issues, then we will be able to effectively isolate the problem. THAT would have sent them down the right road, but the customer wouldn't do it. | |
| | | | nitzan Premium Member join:2008-02-27 |
nitzan
Premium Member
2011-Aug-20 9:00 pm
Re: Hot summer.Totally agree with you, but it took 45 minutes of arguing to get to that point - he could have suggested it immediately. It seemed to me that although the customer was a bit argumentative, the supervisor was more interested in telling him why they can't help him than actually trying to suggest ways to help (like testing the adapter on another internet connection). | |
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John Bishof
Anon
2011-Aug-20 11:15 pm
Re: Hot summer.I understand your points guys, and you aren't wrong... But I don't have another network connection to try it on, and the tech that I ended up working with could see online while he tried to call my house that my adapter was bad. Why not just try helping me with the tools you did have? You can always look at the adapter. If the adapter looked fine and he said, "Hey, I'm watching the call trying to be made...everything looks fine on our end." Then at least he tried to help, spent less time than he did, and he would have ended up seeing the same thing the tech eventually did. It would have saved time, saved face, and fostered a strong customer bond. "We have decided not to support your connection, but you slipped through the cracks...we'll help you anyway." That would have elicited a similarly energetic, but positive campaign on my part. | |
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A few troubleshooting suggestionsThis should not be hard to troubleshoot, but it will take some effort on your part.
Do all incoming calls fail? If not, approximately what percentage have the trouble? Have you noticed any pattern in the failures?
If you have a computer with a mic, please test (at home) with the softphone. If that works, you can use it as a temporary workaround until the problem is resolved. If the softphone fails, try it at a location with wired Internet, to see whether the issue is related to Clear. | |
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John Bishof
Anon
2011-Aug-20 10:51 pm
Phone PowerOk, so after I got in touch with Jim Murphy, it took a tech guy 5 minutes to determine my Phone Power box was dying and that was the problem. The point was that they refused to even start trying other things before blaming Clear. Clear was never the problem and has never had a problem with packet loss. Once someone who cared about the company heard the story, they did well by me. I'm sticking with them since they quickly realized their error. | |
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Re: Phone Powersaid by John Bishof : I'm sticking with them since they quickly realized their error. What an arrogant remark, as was trying to get people fired! You made an error as well, by flying off the handle like some thug from London. If you had followed their suggestion to plug in the adapter at the home of a neighbor or friend with wired internet, then it quickly could have been determined that the ISP was not the problem. That's BASIC VoIP troubleshooting. Calling people "a bunch of lazy jerks" as you did? And I am sure that PhonePower is SO pleased that you have left them with a 20 percent score.... | |
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John Bishof
Anon
2011-Aug-20 11:11 pm
Re: Phone PowerI caused a stink to get service. That was it. It worked. I was right. I don't even care that you are semi-threatening me by putting personal information about me on the forum via googling. If you think what you doing is acceptable conduct, then I definitely don't value any of your opinions or comments. | |
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Re: Phone Powersaid by John Bishof :I caused a stink to get service. That was it. It worked. I was right. There are ways to get a problem fixed that don't involve calling people lazy jerks and trying to get them fired. | |
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John Bishof
Anon
2011-Aug-20 11:23 pm
Re: Phone PowerAnyone who puts more effort into convincing someone they can do nothing, than doing what they can, is a lazy jerk...and they deserve to be fired. They spent company time causing ill will and doing zero work. If they tried and failed, then it would be painfully obvious that they did what they could and it was a problem on my end. Same amount of time wasted as just trying to convince me that they were not "allowed" to help me. If you don't get that, I'm sorry. But that is 100% unacceptable. | |
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John Bishof
Anon
2011-Aug-20 11:36 pm
Re: Phone PowerOk, so PX Eliezer has edited his comments to remove the personal information he causally dropped in his earlier comments. How do I go about complaining about this to an admin? Will it matter that I don't have screen shots? Can they go back and see his edits? What a weird way to spend one's time...
John | |
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Re: Phone PowerJust hit the "Hey Mods" button.
But notice that no one here except you posts with their real name, unless they run a VoIP company as Nitzan does. | |
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John Bishof
Anon
2011-Aug-20 11:50 pm
Re: Phone PowerCause I have nothing to hide. Also, where is this button? I don't see it. It's not like I hold a grudge...you took it down. I'll let it go. But I didn't appreciate the sentiment. Are you affiliated with the company? I like the service, and like I said, I knew this not to be an issue with Clear. I was pissed that they wouldn't even start any troubleshooting with me because it was their policy not to support clear. I had clear before it was their policy, also if you aren't actively signing up, there so no way to find out that they don't support clear via the internet. I did call up to inquire myself, and I was told there would be no issue with the VOIP so long as I had a good connection. They never advised me that they did NOT support Clearwire. I felt I was owed at least some basic troubleshooting effort. Turns out, I was right, there was an issue that didn't involve Clearwire. That's besides the point. This was a customer service issue. It started off a nightmare, it ended very well. | |
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Re: Phone PowerIn direct answer to your question, the button is at the bottom of every post.
And no, I have no relation to ANY phone company or VoIP provider except as a customer.
I have 13,000+ posts on this website on a wide variety of topics, many of which are not related to VoIP. | |
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John Bishof
Anon
2011-Aug-21 12:17 am
Re: Phone PowerSeriously...that button is not there for me. Buttons at the bottom of all the posts I see: to review, permalink, and reply
Even where it says 1 edit, it doesn't click back to the original post. | |
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Re: Phone PowerAh, because you are unregistered. | |
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John Bishof
Anon
2011-Aug-21 6:31 am
Re: Phone PowerGotcha. | |
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We salute you Internet flame guySo lets get this straight you have had the service for almost 3 years and this is the first major problem you have encountered. So that clearly means the service is totally unreliable.
You stated that you never had a problem with call quality but yet you rated that at a zero.
It appears that you barked at the right people and they went against their current policy yet you rate support at a zero.
Your review is not only completely invalid but serves your own purpose which is to complain. Have you ever seen the signs "We reserve the right to refuse service", these came to prominence because of people like you. 3 years worth of quality service that you stated you had no issues with and then you pull something like this.
Bravo good sir bravo. | |
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John Bishof
Anon
2011-Aug-24 5:55 pm
Re: We salute you Internet flame guyThank you, thank you! I'm so impressed that everyone has taken so much interest in this. To be fair, this was a total flame, but not totally unwarranted. The first time I have a problem, the answer is that my ISP is unsupported. It wasn't unsupported when I signed up, and it wasn't unsupported when I called in to see if I needed to make any setting changes after switching to clear. The fact that nobody would help me pissed me off, a little bit. I made a stink so that higher level personnel that actually care about their company would take notice. As soon as I did this, I got prompt attention. Once someone took the 3 seconds to actually look at a call trying to be placed to my number, it was quickly discovered that I had a bad device. Once the new device was delivered and set up, no more problems at all. So, it had nothing to do with my ISP, as I had thought from the start.
So, some of you will still think I'm an ass, and that's fine. But I would like to send a thank you out to Jim Murphy for quickly telling someone to look into my issue, and another big thanks to Chris from the tech department who quickly found the issue and corrected it. To the rest of you, thank you for commenting so frequently on my post, I hear that the guys at phone power got a kick out of how quickly people jumped down my throat! | |
| | | cwoodell join:2002-04-24 Ocean Springs, MS |
Re: We salute you Internet flame guyWell John, I see that everyone seems to think you're a real ass. I for one agree with YOU. They acted as if it had to be a problem with your internet service and would not even look at their own service even though their VOIP had been working for quite some time with your ISP. It would seem that they spent more time telling you how they couldn't help than it took to actually fix the problem. I think they just wanted to prove that they were in control. Your actions proved that in fact they were not. It seems that when someone who cared about the company got wind of the situation they showed their tech support people who was really in control and it was the customer. Unfortunately we as a people have grown to expect the lack of service you initially received. What's even more unfortunate is that there are so many people ready to defend that lack of service as evidenced by this series of posts. | |
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topgun
Member
2011-Aug-25 11:43 am
Re: We salute you Internet flame guysaid by cwoodell:Well John, I see that everyone seems to think you're a real ass. I for one agree with YOU. They acted as if it had to be a problem with your internet service and would not even look at their own service even though their VOIP had been working for quite some time with your ISP. It would seem that they spent more time telling you how they couldn't help than it took to actually fix the problem. I think they just wanted to prove that they were in control. Your actions proved that in fact they were not. It seems that when someone who cared about the company got wind of the situation they showed their tech support people who was really in control and it was the customer. Unfortunately we as a people have grown to expect the lack of service you initially received. What's even more unfortunate is that there are so many people ready to defend that lack of service as evidenced by this series of posts. Well sir cwoodell have you never worked in a company where protocols and procedures have to be followed sir? However it is a good thing we have them don't you agree for if not you may wake up and have no money in your bank account? I won't comment on anything else but if the shoe fits.... | |
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old_crow
Anon
2011-Aug-25 7:00 pm
Re: We salute you Internet flame guy"What's even more unfortunate is that there are so many people ready to defend that lack of service as evidenced by this series of posts." | |
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Accurate ReviewBased on the information on your account I can see that the replacement hardware has been setup and the issue is resolved. If you can take a moment to update your review to accurately reflect your experience with Phone Power that would be greatly appreciated.
Also DSM fan brought up good points. Not to say that your complaints weren't valid but your review indicates that the reliability and call quality are 0 which is not the case. | |
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Re: Accurate ReviewUpdated. | |
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topgun
Member
2011-Aug-26 2:02 pm
Re: Accurate Review Best of luck moving forward with PhonePower and glad Chris was able to help you, I have worked with him in the past and I have nicknamed him "data" cause he is very sharp. Jim is also very helpful, responds to emails quickly, and in great detail. | |
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Review by Mazza3 - Location: Chevy Chase, Montgomery, MD, USA
- Cost: $23 per month
- Install: about 7 days
Cust service, reliability N/A so far I'm recommending it
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Faxing and phone service have been working reliably since I got the service a couple months ago. Since I’m not huge on calling into places for customer services, its nice they have the chat option. That works best for me as its quick and I can save the chat later to reference if needed. The reps have always been courteous. Tech support was prompt. I would recommend and have been doing so to family and friends. Got two $10 credits for doing so thus far. 2/11/11 - Decided to go for the "zippy" travel adapter since the softphone hasn't given me any issues. I've been using it for a couple weeks now and it seems to be working fine. I'll have to update later on the longer term quality. Not compatible with macs yet unfortunately. 8/15/11 - The travel adapter has been working well for me. I think I've tested it on enough trips and different internet connections to be satisfied. I really use the home adapter mostly and am happy with that, but the travel adapter obviously required longer to test. I have been able to use it over wireless connection without issue, with enough connection strength of course. Overall, I am happy with Phone Power and have no complaints! I enjoy seeing them roll out new options and seeing what will be coming up. member for 13.2 years, 4 visits, last login: 12.6 years ago updated 12.6 years ago
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topgun
Member
2011-Feb-16 6:46 am
Online ChatI also like the online chat...sometimes their phone agents get swamped around rush hour and it is much easier to spend 2-5 minutes in an online chat then on hold. | |
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Review by fatuous - Location: Eatontown, Monmouth, NJ, USA
- Cost: $12 per month (24 month contract)
- Install: about 15 days
Great prices, good set of features, g.711 64Kbps codec Has more problems than it should, tech support is hit-or-miss A tremendous VoIP value with a broad set of features, but quality should be better
| Web-site: Ease of Installation: Call Quality: Reliability: Tech Support: Value for money:
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I'm a CallVantage refugee. So my review is mainly going to cover the difference I've noticed between PP and CV. I've had PP for almost 3 months now. It took about 15 days from my order date until PP ported my numbers over from AT&T, which I think is totally reasonable when moving a number from one carrier to another. The PP Grandstream TA is plugged into my Verizon FiOS Actiontec router. I initially had the PP TA in front of the FiOS router, but later changed it because of my particular setup. The PP TA works just the same whether in front or behind the FiOS router. Things that were better with CV than with PP: • Tivo and fax worked fine over CV. Not with PP. In fairness to PP, they don't make any claims that this will work. • PP has echo cancellation problems. As per PP recommendations, lowering the headset volume does typically get rid of it, but with CV, I never experienced echo at any handset volume, and CV was louder than PP, comparing highest volume setting to highest volume setting. • PP plays horrible and annoying music to people that you put on hold. Currently they have no way to disable it. CV's hold was just wonderful silence. • I've noticed 1 major and several minor outages with PP. I never noticed an outage with CV, and I've had CV since it was launched. Reading the forums, it seems like the recent PP outage was an anomaly, and I'm hoping that's true. But since it's me writing this review, and I've only had PP for close to 3 months, and they happened to have a major outage since I became a customer... I'll come back and update my feeling on PP reliability as time goes on. • PP's account management website is functional, but not great. CV's website was much more intuitive and easy to use. Having said that, I get along fine with PP's website. Things that are better with PP than with CV: • PP is cheap if you get the 2 year upfront contract like I did. I'll have to pay some fees again when I reach 12 months like taxes and fees, but at worst, I'll pay less than $300 for 24 months. That's at most $12/month vs. the ~$31/month I used to pay for CV. Those prices are totals that include all the taxes and fees and such, not just the plan price. • PP has the cloned line feature. I needed 2 numbers, so I got 2 lines and I haven't yet had a use for the cloned line feature though I did try it out, and it worked as advertised. So cloned line isn't a needed feature for me, but I could see how this would be great if I only had 1 phone number. • PP uses a Grandstream TA that's very small, which is great. The DLink TA that CV provided was huge and generated tons of heat. So considering the price, I'm happy with PP. But if CV came back tomorrow, even at the $31/month I was paying, I very well might choose to go back to CV. For me, phone service needs to be as reliable as possible, and I'll pay more for that. (Yes I know POTS is more reliable than VoIP for a whole plethora of reasons, but I'm in the business, and I want VoIP.) At the time I ordered PP, they seemed to be among the most reliable VoIP providers. Hopefully that will continue and the recent outage will go down as a one-time footnote in their hopefully long and successful history. April 22, 2010 UPDATE: • PP sends notices before performing maintenance now. This is good. • I haven't had any outages since I wrote this review. Good job PP. • Outgoing Caller ID STILL not fixed despite numerous tech support contacts. PP claims it's the other phone companies who are at fault, but I don't see how it's possible that the other phone companies haven't updated their CALLER ID database for the last 6 months. • Music on Hold makes my caller ID worthless. I'm on teleconferences all the time, so when someone calls my line, I can't answer them because if I do, PP plays music to the teleconference audience. Unbelievable that they still have this issue. July 22, 2010 UPDATE: • Outgoing caller ID was fixed a couple of months ago. Kudos PP! • Music on Hold isn't a problem for me any more. • They had another outage recently. • I've been talking with PP support today. They think my Grandstream TA went bad and they're sending out a new tomorrow USPS priority mail. So including today, that's going to be 4 or 5 days without my phone service. At least I can try to get by with the PP softphone. • Since I got PP, I've worked with several folks in the tech support department. Some of them are top-notch. All have been courteous. • I shouldn't need to talk to tech support as much as I do. The problems I've had, each on their own or in part, are understandable - especially given the low price. But taken as a whole, I've spent allot of time diagnosing issues, working around those issues, and working with PP to resolve those issues. July 23, 2010 UPDATE: • Latency. PP's VoIP gateways are in California and I live on the east coast. This means that to call my next-door neighbor, my voice is routed from the east coast to the west coast back to the east coast. That results in a latency of around 140ms for my voice to reach my neighbor's house. I do wish PP would build an east-coast presence for customers on my side of the country. I also wish that PP would have made it crystal clear when I purchased the service that I should expect high latency based on my address. 140ms latency each way means that from the time I finish speaking, it takes at least 280ms to hear my neighbor's reply. 3/10 of a second is significant, noticeable, and causes awkward moments when having a conversation. PP can easily remedy this by building a POP (Point of Presence) on the east coast. I hope they do soon. member for 14.4 years, 69 visits, last login: 12 years ago updated 12.7 years ago
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moxbox
Anon
2009-Nov-8 1:29 am
phone power and tivoi'm also a CV refugee. i was told by a phone power support person that Tivo should work, but i'm having trouble too.
so is there a way to configure the Tivo to work the the phone power grandstream device? | |
| ddwrt4Sit down and drink with me join:2010-06-09 Albany, NY |
ddwrt4
Member
2010-Jul-23 12:17 am
FYIIn regards to the outage it is explained more in detail: » Re: PhonePower outage July 19?PP had 99.96% uptime in 2009 and support is available 7 Days - 5:00 am - 10:00 pm PST for 12.00 a month with the 2 year special just to be fair... I can understand you frustration when talking to support to resolve issues. However most end users don't realize the complexity of VoIp. » www.voipmechanic.com/tec ··· port.htmI tell everyone that uses VoIp to think of it as an airline operation. PP goes through great lengths to provide the passengers (You and I) with a great experience. Unfortunately there are things that are beyond their control such as: -Firewalls that do not play well with UDP traffic -Congested routers on the public internet to\from PP servers -ISP jitter, max pause, latency, forced idle, packet loss, etc. I guess you can think of these problems as the logistic problems airlines encounter in sky. Then you have airliner maintenance both planned\unplanned and the PP network is no different. It happens and steps are taken to reduce\eliminate downtime but in the end we just accept it. No more then if your flight was canceled because the cabin crew noticed a fuel leak. Moxbox: As far as faxing\using Tivo with VoIp; again there are NO guarantees. You are using older analog modems in a way they were never designed to be used. I tell people if your Tivo does not work with PP, you can use the money you have saved to buy a new one with an internet WAN port. Even then you would still have money in the bank. | |
| | fatuous join:2009-10-04 Eatontown, NJ |
Re: FYII appreciate your taking the time to comment. However I have extensive experience with VoIP and specifically with SIP, as well as with the classic POTS network. In fact I design complicated SIP platforms with such vendors as Acme Packet, Genesys, Oracle, Cisco, etc. Everything I build has had a target of 5 nines (99.999%) availability, and everything I've built has met or exceeded that. In this business, 3 nines (99.9%) is generally associated with bargain-basement service. So PP's reports availability of 99.96% would be about what I would expect for a discount VoIP service.
However my actual measured uptime for 2009 was 99.65%, and that's only including the times when I know for a fact that my PP service wasn't functioning (meaning counting from the time I first noticed the problem to the last time I expreienced the issue), and that the issue was on the PP side (meaning I'm not including problems on the ISP side.
Also please keep in mind that this is a review - not an advertisement or a love letter. I'm a fan of PP and I'm rooting for them, but this review wouldn't be much good to anyone if it didn't accurately portray my personal experience as a PP customer. I've had problems with PP that I didn't have with CV. | |
| | | ddwrt4Sit down and drink with me join:2010-06-09 Albany, NY 2 edits |
ddwrt4
Member
2010-Jul-23 4:43 pm
Re: FYIsaid by fatuous:I appreciate your taking the time to comment. However I have extensive experience with VoIP and specifically with SIP, as well as with the classic POTS network. In fact I design complicated SIP platforms with such vendors as Acme Packet, Genesys, Oracle, Cisco, etc. Everything I build has had a target of 5 nines (99.999%) availability, and everything I've built has met or exceeded that. In this business, 3 nines (99.9%) is generally associated with bargain-basement service. So PP's reports availability of 99.96% would be about what I would expect for a discount VoIP service. However my actual measured uptime for 2009 was 99.65%, and that's only including the times when I know for a fact that my PP service wasn't functioning (meaning counting from the time I first noticed the problem to the last time I expreienced the issue), and that the issue was on the PP side (meaning I'm not including problems on the ISP side. Also please keep in mind that this is a review - not an advertisement or a love letter. I'm a fan of PP and I'm rooting for them, but this review wouldn't be much good to anyone if it didn't accurately portray my personal experience as a PP customer. I've had problems with PP that I didn't have with CV. Thanks and points duly noted. I'm not asking anyone to write a love letter, biased review, etc. I did not know your background and just showing the other side of the coin. You also mentioned a POP on the East Coast to address you problems. However I'm sure you aware that would mean PP would have to recoup the expense. As you mentioned in your review: PP is cheap if you get the 2 year upfront contract like I did. I'll have to pay some fees again when I reach 12 months like taxes and fees, but at worst, I'll pay less than $300 for 24 months. That's at most $12/month vs. the ~$31/month I used to pay for CV. Those prices are totals that include all the taxes and fees and such, not just the plan price. Just playing devils advocate and reminding everyone a company can do alot more with $31.00\m vs. $20.00\m on PP month to month plan. Maybe it's because I come from a military family where my father would say "Your paying 12.00 a month whereas the phone company would charge you $40-$50 a month". So stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about! All kidding aside thanks for the great unbiased review. Hope everything works out for you. | |
| | | | fatuous join:2009-10-04 Eatontown, NJ |
Re: FYIThose are good points, but I would add that having been in this business for a long time, the costs associated with maintenance, technical support, etc. are almost always far higher than the costs spent on hardware, software, space, power, bandwidth, etc.
I've seen press releases indicating that PP uses Acme Packet SBCs. Well a single one of those can support more than 10K subscribers, and the costs would be recouped very quickly. So the next time PP has to augment capacity with another SBC, they should put it on the east coast instead of the west coast. The overall costs to install capacity on one coast or the other are not very different - and in fact deploying new infrastructure to an out-of-the-way data center - say somewhere in Kentucky, Pennsylvania, or Kansas - would likely save money compared to the high data center costs in California.
So while it may seem counterintuitive to some, building an east coast POP will not result in a significant change in PP's cost model - but it will result in much-improved customer experience for their customers on the eastern side of the country. | |
| | | | | ddwrt4Sit down and drink with me join:2010-06-09 Albany, NY 1 edit |
ddwrt4
Member
2010-Aug-31 1:31 pm
Re: FYIYou do realize most VoIp providers only have one POP 2 at the most. Jitter and server quality are greater factors in determining QOS then just server location. Remember most people that use PP are on the East Coast. As you add more locations that would also ad more complexity? Maybe I'm old school but I like KISS when it comes to technology. | |
| | | | | | fatuous join:2009-10-04 Eatontown, NJ 1 edit |
fatuous
Member
2010-Oct-13 12:12 pm
Re: FYIIf most PP users are on the east coast, then it makes perfect sense for them to build out an east-of-the-Miss POP.
Latency is a big deal with voice service. I don't want to call my next-door neighbor and have latency as if I were calling Paris or Rome, but that's exactly what I get with PP.
KISS is fine until it isn't. A better adage would be: "As simple as possible, but not simpler."
Without geographic redundancy, you may soon get your wish. The next quake that hits California may very well bring down PP indefinitely. It doesn't get any simpler than that. | |
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fax/latencyGetting fax and modems working over VoIP has more to do with your ISP. Most consumer grade ISPs tend to oversell their networks so the QoS can be low. Most is going to be in the form of high network jitter. A residential grade ISP doesn't guarantee QoS either. Most of the wholesale carriers are premium quality. If the ISP and internet were taken out of the call path, fax should be reliable. Of course there can be other factors such as congested internet routes along the way, but that is he lesser thing to worry about.
Latency was brought up in a later post. Complainable latency is more to do with your ISP or internet connection type, or your ATA's settings than anything else. Of course the internet causes latency, but not that much. Even if you're connecting to a POP cross country, the additional latency is barely noticeable. | |
| | fatuous join:2009-10-04 Eatontown, NJ 1 edit |
Re: fax/latencyI don't have any problems with jitter or QOS (Most of us call it COS these days). I've tested those things and I've had both FiOS and Comcast. Wholesale links aren't some panacea either. Connectivity is connectivity. ALL network connectivity is "oversold" - wholesale, retail, you name it. The idea that a "bad ISP" increases latency is hogwash. A bad ISP may drop packets, but networks don't queue up data for long periods of time waiting for enough bandwidth to let it through. The buffers are tiny and don't contribute significantly to latency. It's the distance the electrons (in copper) or photons (in fiber) have to travel. It's physics. 2/3 C is an average speed of data transmission through copper and fiber media - C being the speed of light - or ~186,000 miles per second. Now most folks calculate the latency by taking the great circle distance between 2 points, but cables and networks don't follow great circles, nor do packet switched network always take the shortest physical distance path between 2 points. For a glimpse at real-world latency , look at this: Global IP Network Latency - AT&T IP Network PerformanceNow the one-way latency from NY to San Francisco is 71ms. So if I make a call to my neighbor through phonepower, my call takes a minimum of 71ms to reach SF, then it takes another 71ms to get from SF back to my neighbor's house. That's 142 ms. Now my neighbor replies to what I said and it takes another 142ms to reach me. And we're just talking about transit time across a Tier 1 ISP - neither of our ISPs and/or telcos are involved yet. ISPs or telcos can easily add another 30-40 ms round-trip total. Add another 20-40ms for the nature of VoIP having to wait for a packet to fill to the packet size and even with small packets with 20 byte payloads, it adds a little latency - especially for heavily compressed VoIP codecs. So you're looking at at least 1/3 of a second minimum between when you stop talking and you start to hear a reply from the other end. Everyone can decide for themselves whether they can live with the latency. But make no mistake - there is going to be easily noticable latency when you make local calls if you're on one coast and your VoIP provider is on the other coast. And with so many VoIP providers to choose from, the best option is to find one that's within a reasonable distance to your primary location. | |
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Too many providers get bad reviews for QoS out of their contMost VoIP providers use many of the same wholesale termination providers. Using one VoIP company vs. the other really shouldn't make a difference in QoS/call quality as long as the bad ISP is taken out of the equation. Many of the wholesale providers are premium quality, except for maybe one at the moment.
Yes, it is true that the latency can be noticeably greater to some people to a cross county pop but only because an overloaded ISP is like a "latency amplifier". When a bad ISP is taken out of the equation, latency improves so that latency difference is not increased enough so that most do not care to notice it. The VoIP provider can provide alternate POPs if they see fit as a band-aid to bad ISPs if they think it helps its customers, but I don't think having a alternate POP for latency reduction should be mandatory as it never really solves enough of the complaints.
I think you're assuming a perfect internet connection as if there are zero processing delays. Even internet backbones have some processing delay, they aren't perfect, but it is so small that an overloaded ISP looks like an elephant stepping on an ant. Do mind you that ping times are never constant especially on a residential grade ISP; things can change minute by minute. Packet loss is another thing, but it is the lesser of the things to worry about. Packets aren't usually dropped, but are delayed, which causes jitter and latency. The ISPs tend to oversell their networks so as long as the throughput is ok, they don't care about jitter or latency. And, the added jitter causes de-jitter buffers to grow further increasing the latency, which I believe growing de-jitter buffers are the larger source of latency.
Fact of the matter is the majority of these "bad VoIP provider" complaints are more to due with the user's ISP than anything else. The overblown latency issue is created in people's minds when the underlying technology that people don't understand is not being perfect tends to self-magnify it when people should be considering their ISP as the problem and not the VoIP provider.
------ Edit: Your quoted 140ms latency is actually pretty good. Not sure what you're complaining about there. If you think your ISP is not at fault, try having PP adjust the de-jitter buffer to have a shorter start size on you PP device while you still had it. This will knock off about 60ms at the lowest setting, is the PP device is configurable like the PAP2. If your ISP is bad after all, doing this will only increase audio loss due to jitter being too much for the buffer. Like if you do have a good ISP, latency from west or east coast difference could shave off another 20ms, but that's small enough not to worry about and just the day to day differences in ping times can obscure that.
There are de-jitter buffers at the exact point where calls are converted to PSTN where you have no control so in effect latency on you send oudio is never the same as your receive audio. | |
| | | | fatuous join:2009-10-04 Eatontown, NJ |
Re: Too many providers get bad reviews for QoS out of their contThe latency issue has nothing to do with the ISP. It's physics. Stop blaming ISPs for physics. | |
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Review by Stally42 - Location: Moriarty, Torrance, NM, USA
- Cost: $17 per month (24 month contract)
- Install: about 4 days
Flexibility, price Great for home or traveling
| Web-site: Ease of Installation: Call Quality: Reliability: Tech Support: Value for money:
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I've had them for about 6 months now. I use it at home primarily with solid service, but did take it with me on a recent longer than normal stay in the UK in hopes that I would be able to still be available at my US number. Happily, it worked great! It was nice for calling back home in the US without international charges as well. As long as you have solid broadband I would imagine it should work fine just about anywhere. Update - I've been continuing to use Phone Power in my travels and am happy to report it has been very handy. I started using the travel adapter they offer and either use the headset that comes with it or plug my own regular phone into it for longer stays. Obviously at some places with horrible internet connectivity it did not work out so well for me, but I'm well aware that voip needs a smooth road to travel through so no fault to PP there. The flexibility this service offers is great. member for 13.1 years, 6 visits, last login: 12.7 years ago updated 12.7 years ago
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Not happy at all, am going to have to change serviceI wanted to like PhonePower and I have spent a LOT of time dealing with tech support to get it right but to no avail.
I've had it almost 3 months now. I hated giving ATT $45/mo for a land line that I only used for local calls so I searched for an alternative and was led to PP.
My problems started immediately. I found the quality so poor at times that I could not even carry on a conversation, the connection was just bad. Let me say here that I have ATT Elite DSL and have no issues at all with streaming Netflix, Pandora and other services and the problems I have with PP are when none of these other services are being used at the same time. I get between 4-6mbps download speed and even the techs at PP agree that everything is set up right and my connection is very good.
What happens is that I get messages on my phone machine that I can't even make out, they are so warbled/broken up. I never got this with ATT. Never.
The same with calls I get from businesses or make to businesses, say a bank or insurance company. I'll call or they'll call and I can barely make out what is being said. I have checked my connection during these calls, reported to PP and they have said "We don't see any problem, we don't know why you're having this issue." After spending hours and hours on this, I've had it.
We also have other issues. This happens constantly: Someone leaves a message on my home machine and as soon as they hang up I get a dial tone sound for 10-15 seconds. This would not be a deal breaker but along with the other problems it's just one more annoyance.
Worse: The Call Waiting does not work and we get calls that go to PP voice mail when we know we were on the phone at that time and we did not hear any beep or indication there was a call via call waiting.
ALSO: I call to leave a message on my phone at home (the PP phone) and it sends me to the PP voice mail instead of to the home machine. This happens when no one is at home using the phone so I do not know why it goes to the PP voice mail instead of the home answering machine. All I know is that because of this, my wife does not get the message I leave at home because she does not check emails.
ALSO: Although most of the time when I call my friends the connection is pretty good on my end, they report that it sounds as if I'm in a barrel, echoey, distant. They say it's "okay" but not good.
The fact is that as soon as I get my money back via the offer I bought the device with, I am cancelling my service and seeking another service. Maybe no VOIP will work, but I'm going to try at least more. I can tell you I will never pay ATT $45/mo again for a land line that I use only for local calls and I will not use Phone Power.
Maybe Phone Power works well for many people. All I know is that for me it's been a giant pain in the *ss and not a worthwhile experience. | |
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Review by bbwithdrawls - Location: Vanleer, Dickson, TN, USA
- Cost: $8 per month (24 month contract)
- Install: about 5 days
more features than my old att @90.00 mth,customer service is outstanding hadnt seen any yet impressive for the cost , I would highly recomend and do frequently
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I recently had a T1 installed and soon after made the jump to Voip , I researched a lot here on dsl reports and kept coming back to phone power , I was paying 90.mth for att unlimited long distance , after phone power easy and quick install i was up and running in minutes ,quality was great after playing with this , this has twice the features that my old ATT service had , fail safe # and visual voice mail and the best feature is the fax catcher , one thing I have to mention is the customer service , if I call its answered in minutes , I can go to the web page and get a chat in minutes , I couldn't do that with ATT and the forums here on DSl reports are great , I cant say enough , I got mine in July and I figure I'm coming up up on 3 mths , at 90 mth I have paid for it already and i still have 21 mths left of free service, I did feel bad when canceling my service and they asked what they could do to keep me , I said lower the price to 8.00 mth , that went over well bottom line is it is working well for me , features are great , customer service is great ,price is awesome , updated 07/2011 coming up on the first year of service and I cant complain , cant say there have been outages that I,ve noticed at all , every blue moon I have to unplug my device and plug it back in and all's well, I'm running this on a T1 and occasionally I notice when I'm downloading something big or using communicator thru my vpn at the same time I hear it breaking up a bit , the only complaint I can come up with at this point is the marketing for customers after the 2 years are up , new customers get all the breaks and good deals and the old loyal customers are just forgotten about , thats why so many switch services , Directv is a another good example , after your a customer you have to call and beg for deals , the new customers get all the breaks , I guess my point is there is nothing to keep me from shopping around after my 2 years are up, course that is still a year off , maybe they;ll take a hint ?? member for 15.5 years, 1853 visits, last login: 2.1 years ago updated 12.7 years ago
ddwrt4Sit down and drink with me join:2010-06-09 Albany, NY 1 edit |
ddwrt4
Member
2010-Sep-23 9:40 pm
Right On Piss On The DeathStarVerizon trys to win me over on their new promo frequently. I tell them okay you can have me back... I want Caller ID, Visual Voicemail, Call Waiting, 3 Way, Web Cpanel, Call Hunt, Simu-Ring, Free international minutes, and Unlimited US calling for 12.00 a month w\taxes. Sometimes they ask whom I'm with and when I say PhonePower they make a comment like "how do I get in touch with them" haha! | |
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Review by gbuffum - Location: South Burlington, Chittenden, VT, USA
- Cost: $10 per month (24 month contract)
- Install: about 3 days
Good quality and great price SIP credentials not exposed, multiple network internal setup confusing to customer Definitely better than what I've had in the past
| Web-site: Ease of Installation: Call Quality: Reliability: Tech Support: Value for money:
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The voice quality is much better than what I had with ViaTalk. I have had good customer support so far. Setup was very easy. Having two lines is a plus also (ViaTalk had same setup with provisioned adapter). It appears they have two different networks set up internally, with features available only on one or the other network. This was a bit confusing at first as it took me some time to peruse the web site FAQ/documentation to determine what star codes worked on my network. If you are not concerned about having SIP credentials, I highly recommend their service. I have Comcast high speed internet in VT and it seems to work great so far. UPDATE 6/17/2011 ---------------------------- Phone Power is still working great. I have not had any major problems with this service since I signed up, and would definitely recommend their service to those looking for an inexpensive 2 line out phone system. Phone Power's international rates are very reasonable - they appear to be less now than when I signed up. Now that they have SIP credentials, I can now take Phone Power with me when I leave the country on my Android phone using wifi. member for 20.4 years, 368 visits, last login: 2.8 years ago updated 12.7 years ago
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CCEber
Anon
2011-Jun-30 8:55 am
I can't get connected to Phone Power this morning?Did they go out of business? Their website is down. Their phone number on my billing statement disconnects. My home phone is saying device not recognized.
I got billed for June but not July. Does anyone know what's going on? | |
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