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Review by LineNoise See Profile

  • Location: Downers Grove, Du Page, IL, USA
  • Cost: $2 per month
  • Install: about 4 days
Cheap, Reliable, Best support I've come across
Web-site:
Ease of Installation:
Call Quality:
Reliability:
Tech Support:
Value for money:

I am blown away by voip.ms. They're customer support is shockingly good. I've had their service for 9 months now and while we don't regularly use our house phone we've never had an issue when going to use it. Today I tried calling a toll-free number and I received a message that it could not be reached from my calling area. I chatted with support and it was resolved in less than 60 seconds, that's getting to a rep, explaining my problem and having them fix it ALL IN LESS THAN 60 SECONDS. There's been a few times I've been confused about something and chatted with them and they've always taken the time to explain in detail. voip.ms is probably the only company I don't hesitate contacting support because I usually already know more than the support person and spend so much time trying to explain the issue.

UPDATE 8/25/15 - I continue to be a loyal voip.ms subscriber. I started service Jan 1, 2014 and my total cost for 2014 was $49.22! I've since ported my in-laws number over and am sharing an account with them. She was spending $80+ PER MONTH with AT&T! I've lowered their phone bill something like 80% and the only issue I've had was my father in-law activated Do not Disturb on the line. The porting of 2 more numbers is imminent. I'm hoping to utilize their reseller features for these additional lines.

member for 17.7 years, 1546 visits, last login: 89 days ago
updated 8.5 years ago

wideglide36
join:2003-11-08
Altoona, PA

wideglide36

Member

Voip.ms support

I totally agree.

I have contacted support on at least a dozen occasions in my two years as a customer and they have always had the answers I needed.

I can say for a fact, at least in my case, they actually go above and beyond what some other providers do.

Did I mention that they respond quickly?

I'm sure there will be folks who hate their support and think that it's just terrible, but I'm definitely in the other camp.

Just my thoughts......

Review by jef3 See Profile

  • Location: Redwood City, San Mateo, CA, USA
  • Cost: $15 per month
Affordable, full-featured VOIP service
Not much support for the non-technical user
A great choice for VOIP service
Web-site:
Ease of Installation:
Call Quality:
Reliability:
Tech Support:
Value for money:

Unfortunately where we are right now, cell coverage is spotty at best, so we needed something more reliable. While wireline would have been our first choice, AT&T quoted us $48 plus taxes and fees. Comcast wanted and additional $22 a month on top of our Internet plan and another $10 for modem rental, the decision was pretty straightforward to go with a solid VOIP ATA (OBi 202) and a VOIP provider.

Pricing was pretty straightforward for VOIP.ms, with the only "non-obvious" charges being the cost for E911 of $1.50 set-up and $1.50 per month.

I created an account, funded it, and provisioned two DID lines within an hour, including reading what I needed to do on the VOIP.ms website. Zoiper on my Mac was trivial to configure, as was the stock Phone application on my KitKat phone.

There are a lot of "advanced" options available from VOIP.ms, so that takes a bit to wade through and understand. The good news is that most of it is "take it as you need it" and configuring basic service is straightforward. Similarly, the OBi 202 isn't the most user friendly device for the non-technical user. Mango's guide helps a lot if you aren't familiar with the device and terminology. You really want to lock that thing down a lot from its stock configuration!

We're still exploring some of the call-routing and other advanced features available both through VOIP.ms and the OBi 202, but it looks like a very capable set up, for under $75 for CPE and around $15 a month for two lines and "home" usage.

member for 14.9 years, 176 visits, last login: 3.8 years ago
lodged 8.6 years ago


Maxx2006
join:2013-02-02
Guelph, ON

Maxx2006

Member

Voipms

Been with them for almost a year with no problems or complaints except i should have done it sooner.

Should you get telemarketers calling using the auto dial method Voipms's IVR auto attendant stops them all. I would highly recommend this feature. We where hesitant at 1st with my wife looking for a job, but nobody has a problem pushing 1 to talk to us.

Review by mbellaire See Profile

  • Location: Canton, Wayne, MI, USA
  • Cost Contract price not specified.
Good call quality, multiple servers, many features, nice website & info Wiki
ATA setup moderately difficult for non-techies
Good value for the money.
Web-site:
Ease of Installation:
Call Quality:
Reliability:
Tech Support:
Value for money:

My previous VOIP provider made a decision to concentrate on business VOIP and discontinued residential offerings. I did my research and considered many possible VOIP providers. Voip.ms' webpage had a no nonsense business-like appearance, and I liked their straightforward approach to selling VOIP services.

Since voip.ms is a BYOD provider I planned to reuse my Linksys SPA2102 ATA. Once unlocked it was a simple matter to access the voip.ms Wiki to retrieve the needed setup parameters. The registration to the server worked right away, but I did have a few issues, like the phone not ringing properly, but that was a setting in the ATA (I had done a factory reset) not any deficiency on the voip.ms side.

Have been using the voip.ms service now for a little over a month and haven't had any issues, sound quality has been very good. I am not a heavy user, so there may have been some issues that I did not notice.

The voip.ms staff (on IM and the forums) are helpful and try very hard to make sure everything is working the way it is supposed to. The website has an issue tracker (updated often) that lets you know when issues occur.

So far I am a satisfied customer.

8/14/15 Update - No complaints, service continues to work great.

member for 16.2 years, 826 visits, last login: 56 days ago
updated 8.6 years ago


Review by DSX2 See Profile

  • Location: Carterville, Williamson, IL, USA
  • Cost Contract price not specified.
It works as it should.
Nil.
Web-site:
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Call Quality:
Reliability:
Tech Support:
Value for money:

I am not a heavy user of phones, but i have been working in Telcom since 1968. I search for Excellent products for the customer as i have to deal with them.

VOIP.Ms seems to have a good grip on what it takes to deliver a quality product and i wish them well for trying their best to keep it
up to standards.

member for 9.3 years, 845 visits, last login: 1.9 years ago
lodged 8.7 years ago







Review by Rendering See Profile

  • Location: Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA, USA
  • Cost Contract price not specified.
Everything is good with voip.ms
Innovative and Reliable. They go from strength to strength
Web-site:
Ease of Installation:
Call Quality:
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Value for money:

Update 2015 07 12
At this stage of its growth, I hope that voip has matured enough so that a good company is a utility and 'just works'. That is the case with Voip.ms.

SMS continues to be a winner and is still free after 2 or 3 years; the ultra-flexible call filtering continues to keep out the junk while letting through anybody I want to hear from; the utility's geographical redundancy, with its large number of servers, ensures that the calls will always get through. I understand they even have servers in Australia and the UK; I don't need them myself, but they must be handy for overseas travelers.

Update 2014 07 19
Voip.ms continues to be an outstanding value. The sms service has been a great way to get a message simply and easily to friends and family.

The IVR and sub-accounts continue to provide amazing flexibility in handling calls. The time control is a compact, elegant way to filter incoming calls into whatever time slots are convenient for you.

It is hard to believe that anyone could live with pots or even with a simplistic call-handling voip company when a company like voip.ms is available.

I agree they dropped the ball on putting in cell phone confirmation, but that will come eventually, and is minor compared to what they already offer.

Update 2013 04 20
I haven't tried it yet, but the new sms should be useful to me. It is truly impressive how innovative and flexible voip.ms's service is: whether it is the ivr, or sub-accounts, or sms, they tend to stand out from the crowd.

And the basics, reliability and good sound, can be counted on as well.

Original Review
If you want to shut telemarketers and weirdos out of your phone; if you want to keep them from disturbing your tranquility and you want to do it with 100 percent certainty, and you want to do it with minimal effort, than voip.ms is the way to go.

If you want more call-handling features than you can shake a stick at, including IVR, DISA, callback, fine-grained failover, call-forwarding, etc. then voip.ms will do the job for you with a minimal learning curve.

So what do I mean with these jargon words?

whitelisting - you block everybody except:
1. people whose caller id you have whitelisted
2. people to whom you have given an 'extension' number and who enter the extension when prompted.

IVR - Lets you create a recording, a .wav file which you upload to the voip.ms server. You have it set to play when someone calls your number who is not whitelisted.

For example, it might say: Hello, please enter the extension to ring through; otherwise, enter 1 to leave a voicemail.

If you are going to whitelist, you need to have an IVR so the caller has a voice menu instructing him what to do.

DISA
You really need an IVR for this as well. When you call and get the IVR greeting, you enter an extension which asks you for a 'pin' number - a second extension. When you enter that, you are prompted to enter a phone number - call anywhere at voip prices.

It can be very handy if you use your cellphone a lot and want to save on cellphone charges.

CALLBACK
If you call from a number you have entered into the callback directory, you will hear a busy signal. You hang up, and a few seconds later your phone rings. When you pick up you hear a dial tone and can then dial out at voip prices.

FAILOVER
If you call a number and it is busy, or not in service, or otherwise not reachable, the failover will take you to voicemail, or forward your call to another number.

There are many other features of voip.ms that you will probably want to use.

They have had long-standing problems with the Toronto and Montreal servers but it looks like they are finally getting them fixed. I long ago switched to the Houston server and have never had a problem with it.

member for 11.2 years, 24 visits, last login: 8.7 years ago
updated 8.7 years ago


Review by tmcb82 See Profile

  • Location: Hilliard, Franklin, OH, USA
  • Cost Contract price not specified.
Very flexable and reliable.
Pay as you go (not bad just hard to predict)
A great choice for those in need of reliable service with many options.
Web-site:
Ease of Installation:
Call Quality:
Reliability:
Tech Support:
Value for money:

The control panel is filled with all kind of options! It truly puts you in control of how your phone service operates. It is very reliable and has many proxies all over North America to help reduce latency. Finally, to clarify what I put in the bad section. It's not really a bad thing just difficult, because it's pay as you go service your never quite sure how much you'll spend each month. However, their pricing is still very affordable (Roughly, 1000 minutes per $10 depending on the options you select).

member for 21.9 years, 4890 visits, last login: 1 day ago
updated 8.7 years ago


Review by emjayef See Profile

  • Location: Pleasant Hill, Contra Costa, CA, USA
  • Cost: $1 per month
  • Install: about 1 days
Good support, reliability, ease of setup, prices for calls
incoming call filtering too basic
Never had any problems
Web-site:
Ease of Installation:
Call Quality:
Reliability:
Tech Support:
Value for money:

I used to use my internet provider for phone service. But that meant I needed a telephony modem that was more expensive, and the service offered only the basics. But I wanted to keep my ancient landline number even though I had unlimited national calling with our mobile phones because I don't like giving out my mobile number to businesses, and I like to limit calls I get while driving or shopping. However, I hate telemarketers, so I also wanted to eliminated them, especially those extremely annoying recorded calls.

So I decided to try VOIP, and got an Obihai 200 adapter from Amazon. I first tried voip.ms, as their prices and reviews looked the best. But I also tried Anveo, and although their website kinda sucks, I figured it all out and got sold by their incoming call filtering and IVR builder. Using it, I was able to eliminate 100% of the telemarketer calls. They require E911 service, but the total base price is only $2.80, with free incoming calls, which is 90% of what I wanted. voip.ms also has incoming IVR, which can eliminate telemarketer calls, but they don't have nearly as good blacklisting/whitelisting as Anveo, so I only use them for outgoing calls.

I haven't really done the math to find out if it's cheaper to pay voip.ms $1/month for cheaper outgoing calls or not, because I don't make a whole lot of calls. In fact, we could use our cell phones to make domestic calls for free, but I don't want to have my cell phone number listed, so it's sometimes convenient to use my landline number. Also, my wife is from China, and makes calls to China sometimes. We used to use a calling card, but the Obihai device actually can do the same thing, but easier. We can call it from anywhere, and then make a call from the home phone to another number, or even have it call us back and then make a call at the reverse rate (for example, if calling from overseas, it only takes one short call, then the rest of the conversation is at the US rate, which for China is about 1 cent/minute.

I've probably given too much information already. The bottom line is that it's cheap enough and good enough to keep, even if it would be slightly cheaper to not use them.

Also, they have a pretty good wiki with lots of useful information on setting up devices to work with them. Made it really easy to set up a sip phone app on my cell phone that worked right away.

member for 16.3 years, 956 visits, last login: 1.3 years ago
updated 8.8 years ago


Review by gogogadget See Profile

  • Location: undisclosed location
  • Cost Contract price not specified.
Good value for the money
Irresponsible handling of sensitive customer data
Serious problems with security [see thread]
Tech Support:

When porting a DID from Verizon, voip.ms repeatedly asked me to send highly sensitive information (SSN and Verizon login/password) via unencrypted email. This data could be used for a variety of malicious purposes:

- Taking over credit accounts (many firms assume they've verified your identity if you know just the last 4 digits of somebody's SSN)
- Creating new lines of service on my VZ account and running up long distance bills calling Uzbekistan
- Hijacking other lines on e.g. a family share plan
- Snooping through old call records and billing history

voip.ms not only wanted me to send this in the clear via email; they also wanted to store this sensitive PII forever in their support ticket database, which large numbers of (non-US!) employees can access.

Since some of this information truly is needed to port a number, I offered to furnish any necessary identifying information directly to Verizon or to their carrier, but voip.ms refused my offer and insisted on handling and storing my personal information directly. Which I don't trust them to do, given their sloppy security practices.

EDIT:

I have been informed that another voip.ms customer raised a similar issue two years ago, this time about sending ID documents in the clear over email: »To clarify the fraud issues involved - not true and misleading

And sure enough, in his thread "the usual suspects" chided him for trying to protect his privacy, and complained that his overall rating was not high enough. Deja vu.

member for 8.8 years, 24 visits, last login: 8.8 years ago
updated 8.8 years ago

PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

1 recommendation

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

An overdose of umbrage.

Security is important, but your response is disproportionate.

As a practical matter, unless you are a member of the royal family or a presidential candidate, no one is going to be snooping on your e-mail.

Similarly, you've totally trashed Voip.MS but that rings hollow unless you can come up with another VoIP provider who handles these matters to your exacting standards. I don't think you can.

In other words, you fault them for not meeting some ideal which in all likelihood does not exist.

-----

They probably would have been amenable to sending them the data some other way.

And did they ask for your full SSN, more likely just the last 4 digits. That's not trivial either, but much less of an issue than the full SSN.

By the way, major players such as Verizon Wireless and AT&T have been hacked too.
gogogadget
join:2015-05-07

gogogadget

Member

Re: An overdose of umbrage.

said by PX Eliezer1:

Security is important, but your response is disproportionate.

In this day and age it is inexcusable for a tech company to have such poor security standards.

As a practical matter, unless you are a member of the royal family or a presidential candidate, no one is going to be snooping on your e-mail.

No - the opposite is true for identity theft. It's very hard for somebody to impersonate Hillary or Marco, but very easy to impersonate you or me.

A company with poor security procedures like voip.ms is an attractive target for hackers, because they know exactly where to look to find a veritable goldmine of customer data. Which they can resell en masse on darknet markets.

Similarly, you've totally trashed Voip.MS but that rings hollow unless you can come up with another VoIP provider who handles these matters to your exacting standards. I don't think you can.

I don't know of any other VoIP provider with similarly poor security. Do you? If so we should get them fixed too.

Haven't ever seen any security issues with Google Voice.

They probably would have been amenable to sending them the data some other way.

They weren't. As the review said, I repeatedly asked for this.

It seems like this company just doesn't have a working escalation path on tech support tickets, in general.

And did they ask for your full SSN, more likely just the last 4 digits. That's not trivial either, but much less of an issue than the full SSN.

I addressed this misconception specifically in my review. If everyone uses "just" the last 4 digits to verify my identity (and indeed, this is widespread), then it doesn't matter much whether the bad guys have 4 digits or all 9 digits.

By the way, major players such as Verizon Wireless and AT&T have been hacked too.

When they have a vulnerability, people expose it and it gets fixed. For a famous example, do a search for AT&T and Weev.
YourHonor
join:2015-05-15
Beverly Hills, CA

YourHonor

Member

Re: An overdose of umbrage.

In my opinion, these concerns voiced by gogogadget are very simple to understand, very specific, and very legitimate. So let's try not to downplay them with opinions about the value of SSN/SINs, irrelevant comparisons to security practices of unrelated companies, ad hominems and so forth. It really surprises me that so many responders (including Martin) seemingly fail to understand the very basic problems being described here, because what has been exposed are very clear security malpractices on the part of voip.ms. I am also very surprised, Martin, that you don't deny these things are occurring while at the same time defending your security practices. Most of your points are totally unrelated to the actual complaint here.

Now, I myself am a voip.ms customer, but I can absolutely guarantee that I would not be if it had meant exposing personally identifiable information in this manner. A request on the part of voip.ms (not Verizon!) to transmit such information via clear text email is astounding. Storing of this data in a ticket system accessible to employees (in a foreign country for those of us customers in the US), is likewise unacceptable. Thankfully this requirement was not a part of my port in, because I never would have complied if it were.

Martin, open question to you: What assurances can you give those reading this thread that you will come up to speed on modern security practices, address the specific issues raised here, and de-risk your current and potential future customer base going forward? I haven't seen you adequately address the very specific security holes being broached in this thread, yet.

Thank you.

Cyber2000
@telus.net

Cyber2000 to gogogadget

Anon

to gogogadget
I'm certain that the mobile phone you're using right; iPhone, android and windows have the least amount of security but you continue to store sensitive info. Just ask Sony why they ditched iPhone and went back to Berry.
YourHonor
join:2015-05-15
Beverly Hills, CA

1 edit

YourHonor

Member

Re: An overdose of umbrage.

said by Cyber2000 :

I'm certain that the mobile phone you're using right; iPhone, android and windows have the least amount of security but you continue to store sensitive info. Just ask Sony why they ditched iPhone and went back to Berry.

How can you possibly be certain of where gogogadget stores his sensitive information when he hasn't discussed it at all? You can not. And thus your post is pure conjecture, which even if true is entirely irrelevant on the basis of adding absolutely nothing of value or even remotely related to the voip.ms security concerns raised in this thread.
I love voip
join:2015-05-17

I love voip to PX Eliezer1

Member

to PX Eliezer1
said by PX Eliezer1:

Security is important, but your response is disproportionate.

As a practical matter, unless you are a member of the royal family or a presidential candidate, no one is going to be snooping on your e-mail.

Similarly, you've totally trashed Voip.MS but that rings hollow unless you can come up with another VoIP provider who handles these matters to your exacting standards. I don't think you can.

In other words, you fault them for not meeting some ideal which in all likelihood does not exist.

-----

They probably would have been amenable to sending them the data some other way.

And did they ask for your full SSN, more likely just the last 4 digits. That's not trivial either, but much less of an issue than the full SSN.

By the way, major players such as Verizon Wireless and AT&T have been hacked too.

I totally agree with 100% of what you said but why do you have so many posts in this thread. Are you getting paid by the word?
Mango
Use DMZ and you get a kick in the dick.
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
www.toao.net

Mango

Premium Member

Scan of a phone bill

Typically a scan of a phone bill is sufficient for porting a number. Is there a reason this was not acceptable in your case?
gogogadget
join:2015-05-07

gogogadget

Member

Re: Scan of a phone bill

I uploaded the signed scan, but they opened a ticket and claimed they needed SSN + login + password for mobile accounts. Which is fine, but a site that collects that kind of highly sensitive PII needs to ensure that they have correspondingly high security standards in place.
MartinM
VoIP.ms
Premium Member
join:2008-07-21

MartinM

Premium Member

Re: Scan of a phone bill

All of our emails are handled through SSL TLS, our staff receive a security seminar on a monthly basis regarding social engineering, phishing and other security issues. The security in of servers is borderline obsessive compulsive. Techs don't even have access to their own passwords. The system handling the tickets is via high encryption. There's 1 independant security firms scanning us every month for vulnaribilities, and we are certified (Required for handling payments). We scan our servers on a monthly basis for vulnerabilities. Our senior system administrator scans our servers on a monthly basis both internally and externally for vulnerabilities and we're subscribed to all blogs and newsletters from the OS, PBX, SIP Switches etc that we use within our network to be aware of any potential security issues that may arise.

SSN is already mentionned in the LNP form if it's a mobile phone, but your provider asked us to provide the extra piece of information that made you nervous. As a matter of fact, we have never have a customer information compromised.

I'm sorry that our security was not up to your standards.

Best regards,
gogogadget
join:2015-05-07

gogogadget

Member

Re: Scan of a phone bill

said by MartinM:

All of our emails are handled through SSL TLS

Nope, sorry, you failed right here. voip.ms support emails are sent in the clear, i.e. there is no use of PGP or S/MIME. Unencrypted email provides no privacy for the contents and so it should never be used for sensitive PII.

This is Infosec 101.

our staff receive a security seminar on a monthly basis regarding social engineering, phishing and other security issues.

Yet they ask for sensitive PII via cleartext email. Sounds like a good topic for the next training course.

The security in of servers is borderline obsessive compulsive. Techs don't even have access to their own passwords. The system handling the tickets is via high encryption.

This is basically techno-babble nonsense.

And as I pointed out earlier, large numbers of employees have access to the ticket database, so that isn't an appropriate place to store SSNs or passwords.

There's 1 independant security firms scanning us every month for vulnaribilities, and we are certified (Required for handling payments). We scan our servers on a monthly basis for vulnerabilities. Our senior system administrator scans our servers on a monthly basis both internally and externally for vulnerabilities and we're subscribed to all blogs and newsletters from the OS, PBX, SIP Switches etc that we use within our network to be aware of any potential security issues that may arise.

The problem with computer security is that you can go through the motions and do "most" things correctly, but any little mistake can still result in an incident.

Suggest adding this to your monthly seminars too.

As a matter of fact, we have never have a customer information compromised.

You can't really make such a statement if you're having people send sensitive information unencrypted, because you have no way of knowing how much of it might have been covertly logged.

It is unfortunate that your company is in denial about its security problems. My hope in posting here was that the situation would be escalated to somebody who has the background to realize why security isn't up to snuff, and the authority to fix things.
MartinM
VoIP.ms
Premium Member
join:2008-07-21

1 recommendation

MartinM

Premium Member

Re: Scan of a phone bill

There's no "Techno-babble", we're compulsive and it's required.

With all due respect. Nobody cares about 4 random numbers of a SSN that was a field required in the HTTPS form of the LNP you filled.

We invest a lot of money in our security, you can throw it in the garbage by opening an account on DSL Reports and rate us zero percent, that doesn't change the fact we have ported over 50,000 numbers with zero security incidents.

Your accusations are uncalled for, but I'm all for freedom of speech, even if that doesn't mean it's true.

Best Regards,

crazyk4952
Premium Member
join:2002-02-04
united state
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite
Ubiquiti UniFi AP-LR
Polycom VVX300

crazyk4952 to gogogadget

Premium Member

to gogogadget
These are all very valid points.

I would never send sensitive data via email. Claiming that email is secure because it is "handled through SSL TLS" shows an alarming ignorance as to how email works.

I also agree that a ticket system is an inappropriate place for sensitive information.
YourHonor
join:2015-05-15
Beverly Hills, CA

YourHonor

Member

Re: Scan of a phone bill

said by crazyk4952:

These are all very valid points.

I would never send sensitive data via email. Claiming that email is secure because it is "handled through SSL TLS" shows an alarming ignorance as to how email works.

I also agree that a ticket system is an inappropriate place for sensitive information.

Absolutely agree. A few folks seem to get it.
I love voip
join:2015-05-17

I love voip to MartinM

Member

to MartinM
said by MartinM:

All of our emails are handled through SSL TLS, our staff receive a security seminar on a monthly basis regarding social engineering, phishing and other security issues. The security in of servers is borderline obsessive compulsive. Techs don't even have access to their own passwords. The system handling the tickets is via high encryption. There's 1 independant security firms scanning us every month for vulnaribilities, and we are certified (Required for handling payments). We scan our servers on a monthly basis for vulnerabilities. Our senior system administrator scans our servers on a monthly basis both internally and externally for vulnerabilities and we're subscribed to all blogs and newsletters from the OS, PBX, SIP Switches etc that we use within our network to be aware of any potential security issues that may arise.

SSN is already mentionned in the LNP form if it's a mobile phone, but your provider asked us to provide the extra piece of information that made you nervous. As a matter of fact, we have never have a customer information compromised.

I'm sorry that our security was not up to your standards.

Best regards,

I don't always use voip service, but when I do, I only choose providers such as voip.ms who handle all of their emails through SSL TLS. Thank you sir for your borderline obsessive compulsive approach to security.
taoman
Premium Member
join:2013-09-13
Seattle, WA

1 edit

taoman to gogogadget

Premium Member

to gogogadget
Surprising. I ported a mobile number from Verizon to VoIP.ms in December. They needed the last 4 of my SSN and my Verizon account security password (PIN), not the login ID or the login password. All this was handled via the VoIP.ms LNP system on their web site. E-mail was never involved.
MartinM
VoIP.ms
Premium Member
join:2008-07-21

1 recommendation

MartinM

Premium Member

Re: Scan of a phone bill

After verification, was able to track down the port with the LNP staff.

This is the quote from the carrier: "we will need the last four digits of the customer's social security number, the account number and the account password/pin"

It's clearly indicated in the LNP form that last 4 digits of SSN is required. I'm sorry that this made you feel insecure. I feel the review is unfair, as it's a standard procedure with many carriers. This is not to steal your information, it's a security measure put in place by carriers to actually prevent your number from being stolen, not the other way around.

In other words, it's for your own security

VoIP.ms will never ask you for a Login.

Sorry again that you felt insecure about the whole process.

Regards,
gogogadget
join:2015-05-07

gogogadget

Member

Re: Scan of a phone bill

said by MartinM:

It's clearly indicated in the LNP form that last 4 digits of SSN is required. I'm sorry that this made you feel insecure. I feel the review is unfair, as it's a standard procedure with many carriers.

To reiterate: the concern is with voip.ms' improper handling of the personal data, not with the request itself.

If you're going to request sensitive PII you need to step up your security game. Period.

This is not to steal your information, it's a security measure put in place by carriers to actually prevent your number from being stolen, not the other way around.

In other words, it's for your own security

I know voip.ms has no control over this part - but I care a lot more about getting my SSN pilfered than somebody taking over my old cell number.

Wouldn't you? (Or if you're Canadian, maybe this is less of a problem there.)
MartinM
VoIP.ms
Premium Member
join:2008-07-21

2 edits

1 recommendation

MartinM

Premium Member

Re: Scan of a phone bill

We never asked for your SSN sir, Verizon, ___your provider___ wants the four last digits to allow the port out.

Verizon only requires the last 4 (as mentioned when porting mobile numbers, the field available to fill directly in the HTTPS LNP form in the customer portal. I'm failing to see any potential security issues here. Thank you for your understanding.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

Re: Scan of a phone bill

Thanks, Martin.

We know that you run a good shop.
PX Eliezer1

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

Journey's End

So if you did not port to VoIP.MS then where [did] you port to, and was it any much different?

(My bet would be: probably not).

By the way, your American SSN or Canadian SIN is not worth much on the black market, just a few bucks.

OTOH, your medical records probably sell on the darkweb for about $75.

-----

Good luck with your next port.
gogogadget
join:2015-05-07

gogogadget

Member

Re: Journey's End

said by PX Eliezer1:

So if you did not port to VoIP.MS then where [did] you port to, and was it any much different?

(My bet would be: probably not).

Not really sure why you're claiming "Journey's End"? I've been a loyal voip.ms customer for nearly 5 years and I'm still hoping my case gets escalated to somebody who understands the concern.

Obviously MartinM has stated his viewpoint (i.e. "nobody cares about pilfering your SSN, it's just a couple of random digits") and it's clear that we will not see eye-to-eye on this matter. We can let the readers decide whether I'm overreacting, or if voip.ms has serious problems in the way they view customers' private data.

By the way, your American SSN or Canadian SIN is not worth much on the black market, just a few bucks.

It's worth a heck of a lot more than that to me.

cb14
join:2013-02-04
Miami Beach, FL

1 edit

2 recommendations

cb14

Member

Re: Journey's End

Good heaven. Are you really going to tear down a good company just because of your irrational paranoia? Do you know where else your SSN is stored, in a very full and unencrypted form, accessible to any insider and often, through not properly secured office networks, to outsiders? Do you know that all doctors offices, employers you ever dealt with, rental agencies/ landlords/ real estate firms, title companies and whoever else has it? Often with other information like DL/ID number, DOB and whatever else needed for identity theft? There is a reason why it costs only a few bucks on the black market.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

Re: Journey's End

^^^ This.
gogogadget
join:2015-05-07

gogogadget to cb14

Member

to cb14
said by cb14:

Good heaven. Are you really going to tear down a good company just because of your irrational paranoia?

Who's "tearing down" anyone here? My complaint was factual and very specific.

Do you know where else your SSN is stored, in a very full and unencrypted form, accessible to any insider and often, through not properly secured office networks, to outsiders? Do you know that all doctors offices, employers you ever dealt with, rental agencies/ landlords/ real estate firms, title companies and whoever else has it?

Actually, aside from employers you are wrong on all counts.

Some of us actually take steps to protect our personal information. Even if you don't, you need to respect that.

cb14
join:2013-02-04
Miami Beach, FL

cb14

Member

Re: Journey's End

said by gogogadget:

Actually, aside from employers you are wrong on all counts.

I am giving up. We apparently live in different countries, or, more likely, in a separate universe.
gogogadget
join:2015-05-07

gogogadget

Member

Re: Journey's End

said by cb14:

said by gogogadget:

Actually, aside from employers you are wrong on all counts.

I am giving up. We apparently live in different countries, or, more likely, in a separate universe.

Tip: when somebody asks for your SSN, try leaving it blank. Challenge them if they persist; be firm. This almost always works:

»www.clarkhoward.com/10-w ··· y-number

It probably won't work if they have to report information to the IRS (e.g. to send you a 1099), but doctors / rental agencies / landlords / real estate firms / title companies (i.e. 83% of the companies on your list) do not.

You could have mentioned banks, but we both know that banks have much more stringent security requirements than voip.ms.

cb14
join:2013-02-04
Miami Beach, FL

cb14

Member

Re: Journey's End

said by gogogadget:

Tip: when somebody asks for your SSN, try leaving it blank. Challenge them if they persist; be firm. This almost always works:
but doctors / rental agencies / landlords / real estate firms / title companies (i.e. 83% of the companies on your list) do not.

Wrong. Every landlord/rental agent doing background check will need your SSN. Those who do not, you better put in a fake one before you argue it.
Most Realtors will require it as well, BTW refusing to give your SSN in a real estate purchase/sale transaction will have dire tax consequences for you( non resident withholding). In doctor's offices- if you pay cash up front, you will get away with it, otherwise, generally not. There is also no law which says that you have to have an ID on you or that you have to have an ID at all ( at least in the US) but try to argue it to a couple of aggressive cops at 2 A.M.
To get back to the original point : Most idiots out there will not bother to read you "review" , they will just see the lowered general rating. I am not a customer of VoIP.ms nor otherwise affiliated with them, but they are a good business trying to survive in the world of corporate giants and they deserve fairness. Unfortunately that seems to be a strange concept to you.
gogogadget
join:2015-05-07

gogogadget

Member

Re: Journey's End

said by cb14:

said by gogogadget:

Tip: when somebody asks for your SSN, try leaving it blank. Challenge them if they persist; be firm. This almost always works:
but doctors / rental agencies / landlords / real estate firms / title companies (i.e. 83% of the companies on your list) do not.

Wrong. Every landlord/rental agent doing background check will need your SSN. Those who do not, you better put in a fake one before you argue it.

In many cases they can perform a credit check without SSN.

You indicated earlier that you are not very concerned about the safety of your personal data, so it is surprising that a few posts later you are claiming to be an expert on the matter. Have you actually tried leaving the SSN field blank, or are you just making wild assumptions?

Also, nothing keeps you from furnishing a copy of your credit report to the prospective landlord alongside the completed application, and this often saves you from paying the application fee. This is especially true when dealing with smaller operators, like homes listed on craigslist or zillow.

Most Realtors will require it as well, BTW refusing to give your SSN in a real estate purchase/sale transaction will have dire tax consequences for you( non resident withholding).

A real estate purchase is not a taxable event.

In doctor's offices- if you pay cash up front, you will get away with it, otherwise, generally not.

No doctor has ever insisted that I fill in the SSN field. Also please see the article I linked to in my last post; it corroborates my experience.

There is also no law which says that you have to have an ID on you or that you have to have an ID at all ( at least in the US) but try to argue it to a couple of aggressive cops at 2 A.M.

Who ever said anything about giving your personal information to "a couple of aggressive cops"? You're trying to change the subject.

To get back to the original point : Most idiots out there will not bother to read you "review" , they will just see the lowered general rating. I am not a customer of VoIP.ms nor otherwise affiliated with them, but they are a good business trying to survive in the world of corporate giants and they deserve fairness. Unfortunately that seems to be a strange concept to you.

As indicated earlier I would love to rewrite my review to say: "voip.ms had a couple of security hiccups initially, but once advised of the problems, they were promptly resolved." Making this port happen is a win-win situation.

But that's probably going to require help from somebody other than MartinM, who is clearly out of his depth (and in denial) on security and privacy topics. And obviously isn't the right guy to be handling customer service escalations either.

arpawocky
Premium Member
join:2014-04-13
Columbus, OH

arpawocky to gogogadget

Premium Member

to gogogadget
said by gogogadget:

You could have mentioned banks, but we both know that banks have much more stringent security requirements than voip.ms.

The Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) requires financial institutions to have a Know Your Customer policy. That generally involves at least some PII. Then of course the bank probably wants to protect itself from customers that are a bad risk, so it might want to check your credit at certain points in the banking relationship. There are also certain transactions that require a tax id (such as cash transactions > $10,000.00. The CTR form asks for a tax id). If you have a deposit account, and the bank pays you interest, it needs your tax id certified on a W-9 (aka signature card), otherwise it is required to do backup withholding. So, the bank pretty much needs your SSN or other Tax ID to do business with you.

But, and here's the kicker, banks will sell all your PII in a hearbeat. Yes, banks are required to have privacy policies, but those policies don't have actually let you limit sharing.

Telecommunications carriers and Interconnected VoIP providers on the other hand, have to safeguard your info, even against 'data brokers' (data brokers == the same ppl your bank will sell your data to, legally).
said by gogogadget:

To reiterate: the concern is with voip.ms' improper handling of the personal data, not with the request itself.

If you're going to request sensitive PII you need to step up your security game. Period.

Regarding the last 4 digits of your SSN: VoIP.ms requested this via a TLS protected porting request form, correct? Sounds like the correct procedure to me.

Regarding your Verizon account password: VoIP.ms is trustworthy - BUT - that doesn't matter because any time you share any password, you change it afterwards, right? I mean you do practice the basic infosec measures you preach about right? So, it kindof becomes irrelevant that they requested your acct password via a ticket, since you're gonna change it anyway after the port completes, and since you would NEVER use the same password for multiple services.

Regarding your concern that VoIP.ms employee's will have access to your PII: VoIP.ms is a VoIP provider, besides have access to at least some Personally Identifiable Information (PII) like your phone number and email, they also, by necessity, have access to your call records.

Either you trust them with this info or you don't.

Personally, I'd be more scared about Verizon having access to PII..

BTW, you do know that Verizon's support is outsourced all over the globe, including countries with privacy laws even worse than the U.S.'s already weak rules, and that even outsourced employees have frighteningly easy access to pretty much everything. Turnover in these outsourced locations is insanely high. Background checking is minimal. Drug tests are performed, but the results go unread. (yes, I have some actual knowledge of this).

I think your fears may be slightly misplaced...
gogogadget
join:2015-05-07

gogogadget

Member

Re: Journey's End

said by arpawocky:

said by gogogadget:

You could have mentioned banks, but we both know that banks have much more stringent security requirements than voip.ms.

The Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) requires financial institutions to have a Know Your Customer policy. That generally involves at least some PII. Then of course the bank probably wants to protect itself from customers that are a bad risk, so it might want to check your credit at certain points in the banking relationship. There are also certain transactions that require a tax id (such as cash transactions > $10,000.00. The CTR form asks for a tax id). If you have a deposit account, and the bank pays you interest, it needs your tax id certified on a W-9 (aka signature card), otherwise it is required to do backup withholding. So, the bank pretty much needs your SSN or other Tax ID to do business with you.

That's all true, but it doesn't give voip.ms an excuse to be playing fast-and-loose with customers' sensitive personal data.

Regarding the last 4 digits of your SSN: VoIP.ms requested this via a TLS protected porting request form, correct?

Initially, yes. After I left that blank, they repeatedly requested it via email, and provided no way to return to a TLS-protected form.

Regarding your Verizon account password: VoIP.ms is trustworthy

[citation needed], especially after reading MartinM's responses in this thread.

- BUT - that doesn't matter because any time you share any password, you change it afterwards, right?

I don't share passwords.

But most users are far less paranoid than I am, and customer-facing services need to do their utmost to protect these users from making bad choices (such as responding to a cleartext email with their SSN).

In my experience, companies that don't share this mindset often have poor internal security controls. It is an indication that they just do not take the matter seriously.

Regarding your concern that VoIP.ms employee's will have access to your PII: VoIP.ms is a VoIP provider, besides have access to at least some Personally Identifiable Information (PII) like your phone number and email, they also, by necessity, have access to your call records.

Either you trust them with this info or you don't.

Security isn't always black-and-white. I don't care if they see my voip.ms call records or my IP. I do care if they see my SSN or my other accounts.

Personally, I'd be more scared about Verizon having access to PII..

BTW, you do know that Verizon's support is outsourced all over the globe, including countries with privacy laws even worse than the U.S.'s already weak rules, and that even outsourced employees have frighteningly easy access to pretty much everything. Turnover in these outsourced locations is insanely high. Background checking is minimal. Drug tests are performed, but the results go unread. (yes, I have some actual knowledge of this).

Well, for one thing, I'm canceling the Verizon account, hence the number port.

The other thing to consider is that Verizon is an enormous, high-profile company. There is always some level of "megacorp dysfunction" to worry about, but at least you can be reasonably assured that their shortcomings are well-documented because they are simply too big to fly under the radar screen.

OTOH a rinky dink outfit like voip.ms could be a complete mess on the inside, and that still wouldn't attract any press coverage because not many people know who they are.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1 to gogogadget

Premium Member

to gogogadget
said by gogogadget:

Not really sure why you're claiming "Journey's End"?

Just trying to figure out who you ended up porting to.

I have had experience with multiple companies, VoIP.MS runs a good show.

Comparisons (especially negative ones) should be based on sufficient sample size rather than unrealistic expectations.
said by gogogadget:

I've been a loyal voip.ms customer for nearly 5 years....

Would have helped your case to state that very salient point upfront, and to rate the OTHER aspects of Voip.MS (not just give them a zero on tech support) if you are a long-term customer. But then, this after all was more rant than review.
said by gogogadget:

I'm still hoping my case gets escalated to somebody who understands the concern.

Oh yes, I think that the owners will be incredibly eager to help someone who publicly trashed the company.
gogogadget
join:2015-05-07

gogogadget

Member

Re: Journey's End

said by PX Eliezer1:

Comparisons (especially negative ones) should be based on sufficient sample size rather than unrealistic expectations.

As mentioned above:

1. Google Voice protects customers' PII far better than voip.ms (and hires people who actually understand rudimentary security concepts).

2. I'm not comparing voip.ms to anyone; you brought it up. I'm just asking them to correct one obvious weakness.

3. To many security-conscious users, an error of this magnitude and the dismissive response overshadows anything else I could say about the company, pro or con.

Oh yes, I think that the owners will be incredibly eager to help someone who publicly trashed the company.

I would be more than happy to revise my posting if somebody addresses the problem.

For MartinM's benefit, here are two things that won't convince me to change my review:

1. Starting an online pissing contest on my thread.

2. Telling me I'm an idiot for trying to protect my SSN from improper disclosure.

KevNYC
Premium Member
join:2002-03-31
Seattle, WA

KevNYC

Premium Member

Never thought I'd see VoIP.ms in the unhappy section of reviews...

...then I read this thread. Seriously? You sir don't belong in the internet. I trust VoIP.ms with more of my personal information than Comcast. Another vote for Martin/VoIP.ms, you're probably lucky to not have this customer.

••••••••
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

1 edit

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

Undercuts his own case by vituperation.

The OP wrote a review of Voip.MS---that's how we all got here.

This whole page relates to his review.

He could have started a thread in the Voip forum, but instead wrote a review, which is perfectly fine.

But when writing a review, it is customary to give numeric scores on multiple points:

Web-site:
Ease of Installation:
Call Quality:
Reliability:
Tech Support:
Value for money:

The OP despite being a Voip.MS customer for several years, rated ONLY on Tech Support (giving a zero) and deliberately omitted the other five categories.

In doing so, he ensured that the numeric score would be a zero, thus pulling down the company's ratings.

So regardless of anything else, to me this looks like a vindictive drive-by rant.

Whatever legitimacy the OP's points may have (and I don't think they have much), they are undercut by the OTT attack on the company and its personnel.

••••••••••
CatsEyeX
Premium Member
join:2014-08-20
Alviso, CA

CatsEyeX

Premium Member

Do I Have This Right?

Do I understand correctly that all Voip.ms wanted was the last 4 digits of his social security number to do the port? Not his full social security number?

•••••••••

DaSneaky1D
what's up
MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou

DaSneaky1D

MVM

Why not simply request a new DID from voip.ms?

It seems that you've walked into a whole lot of drama over trying to port a mobile number. Would getting a new DID get you to the same end result?
gogogadget
join:2015-05-07

gogogadget

Member

Re: Why not simply request a new DID from voip.ms?

said by DaSneaky1D:

It seems that you've walked into a whole lot of drama over trying to port a mobile number. Would getting a new DID get you to the same end result?

Not really. I already have several other DIDs from voip.ms. I wanted to port my old mobile number and transparently redirect callers to another line.

DaSneaky1D
what's up
MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou

DaSneaky1D

MVM

Re: Why not simply request a new DID from voip.ms?

Fair.

Thanks for the reply!

Review by serco See Profile

  • Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada
  • Cost: $5 per month
  • Install: about 1 days
The best value home phone service
Is it not for people without a minimum of VOIP knowledge.
Web-site:
Ease of Installation:
Call Quality:
Reliability:
Tech Support:
Value for money:

I was on Videotron. $34.00 monthly. I switch to VOIP.MS with a OBI200 adapter and now I only pay less than $5.00 monthly for my home phone and all my Canada and USA call are considered local calls.

Their support is awesome, on phone, by email or by chat.

member for 21.4 years, 1781 visits, last login: 2.4 years ago
lodged 8.8 years ago







Review by MacGyver See Profile

  • Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
  • Cost: $13 per month
  • Install: about 6 days
Economical, beats POTS with a stick
No incoming flat-rate option, priced in US$,
Serves my needs!
Web-site:
Ease of Installation:
Call Quality:
Reliability:
Tech Support:
Value for money:

My Other Reviews

·TELUS
I signed up for the service and grabbed an urban phone number for 99 cents a month. It was up and running in about 10 minutes!

I also ported a phone number from my CLEC to voip.ms which took six days. I received regular updates from voip.ms via email on this process. So I didn't need to keep checking a website to see what was going on.

Once I had tweaked my ATA device as per voip.ms' recommendations, the service works perfectly. I have had a couple of dropped and garbled calls; however I am unsure if this is voip.ms or something to do with my ATA/QoS settings, or the other person's crummy cordless phone. I'm still learning.

The configuration website offers so many options, it can be confusing. Anything you could want: call forwarding, ring groups, failover, voice mail, CID filtering, you name it. Take advantage of the great tech support if you can't figure something out. I have certainly learned a lot by using this service about routing telephone calls, ATA settings, telephony terminology. I'll never take a POTS line for granted again! The configuration page on the website lets you know at a glance if your DIDs are registered, so there isn't any guessing. This was very helpful to aid troubleshooting when I was trying to open ports in my firewall.

After my first month, I discovered that the incoming rate would be billed at 1.49 cents per minute because my existing number was in a rural area. If I had taken a new urban number, incoming rates would have been 1.0 cents per minute. This has caused my monthly savings over POTS to be a bit less than I had anticipated. If you receive a large number of calls or take long calls on a "rural" number, you may wish to look at other providers with flat rate options for incoming and outgoing.

If somebody calls me and I have the call filtered out via caller ID to anything other than "hang up", I still get billed a tiny amount even if my phone doesn't ring. But I love looking at the call logs and seeing how many telemarketers are wasting their time trying to call!

Although this company is based in Montreal, they bill in US dollars, which is something to be aware of if you live in Canada and have to live with the fluctuating exchange rate. It would be nice if they had an option to pay in Canadian dollars. The 30% exchange rate premium charged by my credit card hurts.

I have been extremely pleased overall with this service. My only regret is that I didn't dump POTS years ago and go this route. I'm saving $350 a year over regular phone service.

member for 22.4 years, 10878 visits, last login: a few hours ago
updated 8.8 years ago

MartinM
VoIP.ms
Premium Member
join:2008-07-21

1 recommendation

MartinM

Premium Member

DID Rate

Thanks for your objective review of our services.

Regarding the rate of your number, if you can pass me in private the number, I'll gladly check with our carrier if we can give you the 1.00/0.01 rate.

Regarding the Canadian exchange rate, we monitor it closely and if one day we find that it's impairing our rates, we'll find a way to charge our Canadian offerings in Canadian dollars or the equivalent in US Dollars. It's a potential problem we're aware of and we'll be ready to act if the need arises.

Regards,

MacGyver

join:2001-10-14
Vancouver, BC

MacGyver

Re: DID Rate

Thanks Martin for your concern and reply, it is great to do business with a company that isn't afraid to take advantage of this website, too!