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voip.ms page on DSLReports
Six Month Rating

Reviews:
bullet 288 reviews (260 good) (6 bad)
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Review by bbalasa See Profile

  • Location: canada
  • Cost Contract price not specified.
Good "Nothing"
Bad "Dishonest about business practice"
Overall "Stay away."
Web-site:
Ease of Installation:
Call Quality:
Reliability:
Tech Support:
Value for money:
(ratings well below consensus)

Prior to signing up, i had a lengthy chat with Support - asking everything about the International calls. It seemed ok to me and i decided to give it a try. Created account, logged in, paid $25 (and being Canadian, the HST also). Configured my device (CISCO 122) and tried my cell. Everything looked ok.

Few hours later, my wife tried to call her parents in Romania - the reason we got this service in the first place. Busy tone. And again. And again.

Contacted the live chat support - SURPRISE ! If you want international calls, they require PHOTO ID to be sent to the via email. The "Security" department will review and decide if i am allowed to make the calls or not !

There was no mention of this "little requirement" before signing up or before taking my money ! And no written info on any page on their website that i have read !

I asked for my account to be closed immediately and my money refunded - it took them 30 seconds to get the money, should take 30 seconds to refund ! Wrong: first, we open a ticket to ask you if you really want to close the account. After you confirm, we will refund - just not right now. When ? Remains to be seen.

Bottom line: Dishonest business practice and privacy invaders. Credit card info and confirmation of payments should have provided enough information about me, without the need for a photo attached and information about photo id. I guess is hard to sell or still IDs with only one piece, and no photo. Definitely easier with two pieces and one photo ! And the cherry on top - no mention of this requirement until after you paid !

member for 349 days, 1 visits, last login: 348 days ago
updated 349 days ago

Comments:
PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Graustark
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·Callcentric

Perhaps poorly handled but still a legitimate issue.

This may have been handled poorly on their part, but it is not unusual to have such measures.

Nor should you object to the verification which is as much to protect the customer as to protect the company.

I do agree they should have discussed this with you in your chat session.

-----

This is posted on their website:

Please note that for security reasons, some destinations are locked by default for new accounts.

In order to provide you a full access to all international destinations, our security department requires verification of your ID. This can be provided as a scan of an ID card (full color and high resolution image) matching the address you have provided on file. Feel free to black out any confidential information that does not belong to the verification process. Please submit this information by opening a support ticket.

This is a one time verification only. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Destinations that are locked:

Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Anguilla, Armenia, Australia, Australia Territories, Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Belarus, Benin, Bhutan, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Botswana, Brunei, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Comoros, Comoros, Congo, Cook Islands, Croatia, Cuba, Dem. Rep. of Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Falkland Islands, Faroe Islands, Fiji, French Guiana, French Polynesia, Gabon, Gambia, Georgia, Ghana, Gibraltar, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Guyana, Honduras, Hungary, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Latvia, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Lithuania, Macau, Macedonia, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Mauritius Island, Micronesia, Moldova, Monaco, Mongolia, Montserrat, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Nauru, New Caledonia, Niger, Nigeria, Niue Island, North Korea, Oman, Papua New Guinea, Reunion Island, Romania, Russia, Rwanda, Sao Tome & Principe, Senegal, Serbia, Sierra Leone, Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, Sri Lanka, St. Helena, St. Lucia, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Syria, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Togo, Tokelau, Tonga, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Tuvalu, Uganda, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Wallis & Futuna, Yemen (Arab Republic), Zambia and Zimbabwe.

»www.voip.ms/m/riskyexplanation.php

This type of fraud prevention measure is common for VoIP companies, which are far more subject to fraud than your local phone company which physically knows where you live.
PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Graustark
kudos:6

By the way....

Here is what MartinM of the Voip.MS company said several years ago on this same issue, fraud is just as much of an issue now as it was then:

»Re: Voip.ms and international calling

suppafly
Premium
join:2009-11-27
Reviews:
·Cablemas

1 edit

Reply

Hello

This requirement in order to unlock all the destinations (and having all payment options enabled) is documented both inside the customer portal and also in our wiki.

»wiki.voip.ms/article/Unlocking_A···inations

I apologize if it was a deal breaker for you however all VoIP providers incur into losses due to accounts that are opened and may be used to send payments from many different credit cards. This one time verification only needed to confirm that your name and address match what is on the signup form, the other confidential information can be blanked out.

Regarding the requirement to ask for the ID to unlock destinations, it is only required if the customer wants to have credit card and paypal payments enabled too. If the customer funds his account via Bank Wire or Western Union then we do not request any documentation to unlock all their termination countries.

Just hoping to clear this up for all the readers, so it can be seen that this is not a secret requirement, and is documented extensively and with screenshots in our pages. Limiting our potential losses due to security risks allows us to pass on the savings to all customers, a quick example is our recent lowering of the USA and Canada termination rates for all our customers.

Thank you,
--
Peter Sahui - VoIP.ms
bbalasa

join:2013-12-14
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms

Re: Reply

said by suppafly:

I apologize if it was a deal breaker for you however all VoIP providers incur into losses due to accounts that are opened and may be used to send payments from many different credit cards. This one time verification only needed to confirm that your name and address match what is on the signup form, the other confidential information can be blanked out.

I doubt this is true - you had no problem charging the card, without any verification. And getting the money...
I am using another provider for more than three years - never asked for photo id, ever.

I also got a reply on the ticket - that has nothing to do with what i asked:

Please note that it is not mandatory to send an ID to unlock the additional International destinations (which include Romania), we can unlock them allowing payments via Western Union and Bank Wire for your account. If you would like to proceed with this option let us know, as well advise if you have any additional question. Thanks.

__
Alex Lopez
VoIP.ms Customer Service

1. In the ticket, i asked for account closure and immediate refund, not for alternate ways for you to hold my money without any reason.

2. If you expect that as a Canadian citizen, providing you a Canadian credit card and address i will pay via Western Union, i think you are at least dreaming. None of the Canadian companies (or even US for what matters) asked for a photo ID to be on file. For the purpose of just dialing an international number, from Canada, i think that the credit card should be enough.

Since you are so active on this forum, maybe you will, this time close the account and refund instead of delaying more.
Mango
What router are you using?
Premium
join:2008-12-25
www.toao.net
kudos:13
Reviews:
·AcroVoice
·Callcentric
·Anveo
·Shaw

1 recommendation

Re: Reply

said by bbalasa:

I doubt this is true - you had no problem charging the card, without any verification. And getting the money...

Unfortunately, Peter is correct. Fraud in this industry is rampant, and many of the service providers that the members here use have this exact same policy. I realize that customers like you and me who don't want to commit fraud just want a home phone. But one fraudulent transaction can wipe out the profits of hundreds of legitimate customers. (A VoIP.ms rep once mentioned their record was US $10,000 in ten hours.)

I don't disagree with you that it's inconvenient, but I also don't see the service providers changing their policies any time soon. Either we sometimes have to jump through hoops to open an account, or everyone's prices go up to cover the cost of fraud - and people like that even less.
bbalasa

join:2013-12-14
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms

Re: Reply

Mango, what you say makes sense, if i were to believe what they are saying. But facts are:
- I am using VoipGo (now Axsit) for more than three years - their international rates as well as unlimited Canada / US were lower three years ago that Voip.Ms today's lower rates. Axsit Romanian rates are for example $0.019 CAD / min - per second billing, not $ 0.024 US / second billed in 6 sec. increment).
- The only reason i tried this service was international calls. Axsit international, at times (during international holidays mostly) can be difficult to use (calls can be difficult). Never calls to Canada or US.
- I have also tried Vonage (a little older in the business that Voip.ms). Never asked about photo id.
- I had CallSelect as cell phone LD provider (and also as LD provider for home phone, some years ago when i had Bell service) - never asked about photo id.
- I have sent a MagicJack device in Romania (and still paying the account) - never asked about photo id.

Not to mention that any of the well respected merchants that i am dealing on a daily basis have never asked about photo id. And i bought items sometimes a little more expensive than $2000.

If what their rep said:

11:32:44 AM [Fred] But if you upload the ID I can try to expedite the process.
11:33:19 AM [Fred] The ID only needs to show your picture, name and a valid expiration date. All other information can be blacked out.

I do not believe security is what they have in mind. Somebody trying to cheat, will know that much to fake an ID with an imaginary picture and expiry date, since all the other data can be blanked out.

Therefore, considering all of the above, please allow me to have serious doubts about their reasons.
nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:8
said by Mango:

Fraud in this industry is rampant, and many of the service providers that the members here use have this exact same policy.

While I agree that fraud is a problem - there are other ways to deal with it - we for example almost never ask for a photo ID - the only reason we would is when other means are exhausted and we're pretty certain it is actually fraud - would never ask for ID from a user that seems legit. I'd be glad to share my insight with Martin or someone else from Voip.MS privately if they're interested.

ymhee_bcex
Premium
join:2006-04-21
Tarzana, CA
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·PHONE POWER
·AT&T U-Verse
Just realized that I never gave CallWithUs my address. I paid with Google Checkout or Paypal. And before that, I never gave Betamax my address, either.

So, apparently, there are ways to run prepaid VSP business without the need for address; let alone picture ID.
--
Technical problems are more often than not management incompetence masquerading as technical issues
bbalasa

join:2013-12-14
canada
No online merchant should ever have any of your photo ids on file. Period. Anything else is a huge risk.
Mango
What router are you using?
Premium
join:2008-12-25
www.toao.net
kudos:13

You'll receive your refund.

I have every expectation that you'll receive your refund very soon. I'm sorry you decided not to continue to use VoIP.ms; they are an excellent service provider.
bbalasa

join:2013-12-14
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms

1 edit

Re: You'll receive your refund.

said by Mango:

excellent service provider

From my point of view, an excellent service provider is upfront with all the information. Also, an excellent service provider will actually provide the service after gets your money or promptly refunds your money.
Not the case here. I am happy for you that your experience is different - good luck in the future too.
PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Graustark
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·Callcentric

1 edit

Re: You'll receive your refund.

Unfortunately you do not comprehend the fraud issues involved, which are particularly high in the VoIP calling market to some countries.

Every VoIP provider uses some sort of security screens, or else they end up going out of business.

A basic example:

Harry steals Joe's credit card info, or buys it for a few dollars on a website on the "dark web" that exists for this very purpose. It's big business.

Harry pretends to be Joe, and uses Joe's info and credit card number to sign up for VoIP service.

(Meanwhile, Joe has no idea that his info was stolen. Maybe it was at a gas station, maybe his computer was hacked, maybe one of a dozen other ways.)

Harry makes lots of overseas calls to Burkina Faso.

Joe eventually notices unauthorized use of his credit card, and alerts the bank.

The bank in turn takes the money BACK from the VoIP company, and the charges are removed from Joe's credit card.

The crook Harry [who pretended to be Joe] has disappeared until the next time, and the VoIP company ends up having provided services for free.

SO---Voip.MS is trying not only to protect themselves, but ALSO to protect the "Joes" of this world. Even you.

And---You'll say "why doesn't this same thing happen with Amazon?" But Amazon is DELIVERING something to you at some sort of physical address. That is NOT the case with a VoIP provider.

Finally---Your old VoIP provider may have verified you by another method. Or they may have a somewhat different list of high-risk countries. Or they may just be less diligent than Voip.MS which is indeed a good company.

Stay safe.
bbalasa

join:2013-12-14
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms

Re: You'll receive your refund.

I am a software engineer, with some years of experience - that is why i do know that what they request does not prevent fraud in any way.

11:32:44 AM [Fred] But if you upload the ID I can try to expedite the process.
11:33:19 AM [Fred] The ID only needs to show your picture, name and a valid expiration date. All other information can be blacked out.

If all other data is blanked, how can you confirm that ID as being mine ?

For more details, please refer to my answer to Mango's comment.

And i do stay safe - not sharing info that needs to remain private. As in photo id uploaded over email to a not well known and unsure company / location.
PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Graustark
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·Callcentric

Re: You'll receive your refund.

This issue has been discussed to death on this forum.

For example:
»[Voip.ms] VOIP.MS selectively requires ID card or Passport scans at signup

See ya.
bbalasa

join:2013-12-14
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms

1 edit

To clarify the fraud issues involved - not true and misleading

1. Email is notoriously one of the most insecure meanings of communication in existence today.
2. A photo ID sent over email will be accurate and correct if it is sent by an honest person, not a fraudster. Anybody else will know how to fake a scan of a real ID with any picture and expiry date in the world.
3. If what the customer service rep said is true:
11:32:44 AM [Fred] But if you upload the ID I can try to expedite the process.
11:33:19 AM [Fred] The ID only needs to show your picture, name and a valid expiration date. All other information can be blacked out.
There is no way this can be considered a real or in any way shape or form valid. How can Voip.ms validate this id based on a photo, name and expiry date ? If i provide you with my passport (valid photo ID) do they have access to the Government database to validate ? If the answer is yes, then we have bigger issues. If the answer is no, then there is no way that can ensure that i am whom i said i am. (see previous points).
4. If it were to believe their poor excuse with security concerns, seems strange to me that you can be a fraudster and charge as much as you want on the credit card and spend the whole amount on US / Canada calls - no verification required to take your money.

A golden rule in business says that if you suspect something fishy, you verify first and charge after, not charge first and verify later. By the time you verify, the credit card would have been charged anyway, a fraudulent transaction registered and consumed. That is why you use verified by Visa feature.
PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Graustark
kudos:6

Re: To clarify the fraud issues involved - not true and misleading

Methinks you doth protest too much.

And again:
»[Voip.ms] VOIP.MS selectively requires ID card or Passport scans at signup
bbalasa

join:2013-12-14
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms

Re: To clarify the fraud issues involved - not true and misleading

Thanks for pointing me to a the post you had the same comments. One small difference - that was about an account created via VPN. This was not the case (and btw: somebody there mentioned identity theft issues too).
And yes, i protest - i was taken some money and did not receive the service. In order to actually receive what i paid for, i am asked to allow an intrusion in my personal space and expose myself with very private data in a very insecure way, to a company i know mostly nothing about. And all the explanations (reasons) provided for this have no real base.
You are a happy customer (or employee ?!) - good for you. It is not for me to judge or comment on your happiness.
I am not happy and don't want this type of abuse to become the accepted normal.

cb14

join:2013-02-04
Miami Beach, FL
Reviews:
·callwithus
·T-Mobile US
·localphone.com
·Google Voice
·Callcentric
·AT&T U-Verse
·magicjack.com

Re: To clarify the fraud issues involved - not true and misleading

I agree with you that the ID verification process is somewhat absurd.
And it is certainly true that the company should warn customers that a verification process can be lengthy and complex. In that sense, they are themselves to blame for this.
But it should not bring down their overall rating. To reduce the rating of their web site and customer service is justified in your case. The rest is not.
bbalasa

join:2013-12-14
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms

Re: To clarify the fraud issues involved - not true and misleading

Hi cb14,
the reason i reduced the rating for the remaining categories are:
1. Ease of Installation (50%) - It was easy enough to set up my ATA device and see it registering with Voip.ms however, i cannot comment if the calls would have worked or not since i could not make any calls.
2. Call Quality (0)- from my point of view, since i could not use the call, the quality is 0.
3. Reliability (0). Same as above.
4. Tech Support (0):
- During the first chat i had with their tech support, for more than 20 minutes, before signing up, i have asked about everything related to international destinations, including the possibility of acquiring an DID in the country i was interested in. It was never mentioned to me even once the photo ID issue. That shows me either dishonesty on the support person side or no knowledge in this area.
- Second chat, finding that i cannot make the call i wanted, showed even less knowledge in the area: i was told that i must upload the id if i want the destinations unlocked. Couple of hours later, in the ticked "required" for the account closure and refund (that i have not seen yet), somebody states:
"Please note that it is not mandatory to send an ID to unlock the additional International destinations (which include Romania), we can unlock them allowing payments via Western Union and Bank Wire for your account."
- Although i have asked repeatedly for account closure and refund, nothing has been done in that direction and nothing is being done as we speak. I still can see the full amount available in their admin interface, therefore no attempts have been done to close / refund as i have asked.
Part of the customer support is also the inconvenient time when a customer decides it does not need / want your service anymore and resolve that issue in a timely manner, especially when you are withholding funds with no justification. I have already unregistered my device from their server.
Iscream
Premium
join:2009-02-17
New York, NY
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

3 recommendations

You're soo freaken wrong about security and being upfront with fraudsters!

Take my free advice - stay away from ANY VoIP provider.

You have NO idea of how this service works therefore - leave the VoIP providers alone!
Your only place is with legacy land-line and/or cellular provider - who, by the way, will ALWAYS ask your social security and all other details.

Just in case - Romanian fraud takes the #1 place among all other VoIP fraudsters today!
MartinM
VoIP.ms
Premium,VIP
join:2008-07-21
kudos:3

VoIP.ms cares about its current user base

We have a few countries that are locked due to them constantly being targeted for fraud, the number #1 fraud destination unfortunately is Romania. Only number 1 priority is our current user base. They trust our service and in exchange it's our responsibility to ensure that their VoIP service will last for all the time they remain with us.

When you login to the portal, the home page displays your options and current settings and display "Some Countries locked", and has a link to unlock them. It's a fairly easy process.

While I can certainly understand the frustration, it's really not personal against you. We have hundreds of happy customers dialling to Romania as I am typing this.

A simple private message to my DSLR account would have been faster than your review, and I would have enabled your account in a few seconds.

We do not need to hold your money hostage, the process is automatic for deposits, but requires a manual refund. The reason the staff opens a ticket to confirm you want to close the account is for "Social Engineering" protection for your own protection. So that someone doesn't pretend to be you and come on chat to ask things on your behalf, like it happened to many companies in the past, such as password reset with Apple Inc.

All of this seems complicated at first glance but it was simply just a simple one time verification process for everything on your new account to be unlocked.

You're obviously a legitimate customer, and I feel sorry that this security measure made you feel this way. It was meant to make our customer base feel more secure, not the contrary. Your credit card payment has already been refunded. I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavours and I hope your future VoIP provider brings you the experience you're looking forward to.

Best regards,
--
Martin - VoiP.ms
wideglide36

join:2003-11-08
Altoona, PA

Re: VoIP.ms cares about its current user base

Excellent professional response Martin.

Always taking the high road...........

ymhee_bcex
Premium
join:2006-04-21
Tarzana, CA
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·PHONE POWER
·AT&T U-Verse

Surprisingly, I am with OP on this

Generally, my level of skepticism with people that say "Good: Nothing" in the review before even using the service is very high.

However, this is how I see it:
I give Voip.MS money. That is, I trust that Voip.MS will not misuse my money. I don't see any risk on Voip.ms part.

I had similar situation when I was setting up an account for a cousin in Latvia. Apparently, my US-based IP address triggered some alert and Voip.ms requested similar documentation to what OP is describing. And it was also a deal-breaker for my cousin.

The fraud discussion just doesn't seem relevant! Just stop providing service beyond what's prepaid - and you won't lose a penny. I am, on the other hand, risking that you go out of business, and I will lose the money that I prepaid - and yet you are asking me for some verification! Doesn't make any sense, and it does feel insulting - as well as insulting my intelligence.

That said, I have another cousin who uses Voip.MS and loves it. The sound quality, support excellence, configuration flexibility are absolutely the best! So, "Good: Nothing" grade is ridiculous - especially by somebody who never used the service!
--
Technical problems are more often than not management incompetence masquerading as technical issues

Fibille

@ukfast.net

Re: Surprisingly, I am with OP on this

said by ymhee_bcex:

The fraud discussion just doesn't seem relevant! Just stop providing service beyond what's prepaid - and you won't lose a penny

I like it. Do not allow anybody to put in more than x dollars in 24 hours without the ID check. As long as they stay under the limit or have provided the ID, let them call wherever they want.
Iscream
Premium
join:2009-02-17
New York, NY
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

2 edits

1 recommendation

Re: Re: Surprisingly, I am NOT

Sadly enough, but you're definitely NOT "ymhee_bcex" (Russian for "smarter than all others"). Those who're _smarter_ - study the subject first, then show up their opinion... or not tell it at all.

Unfortunately, the life of service providers or those who sell "negligible goods or service" is much different than the life of Target's execs who won't loose a penny for their crime of not complying with security standards.

For you knowledge - for just a $1 transaction (well, in case of Voip.ms - $25, but that doesn't change the story) which is _DECLARED_ as fraudulent (because of stolen card or just because a "user" wanted so or because bank advised a card holder to do so) - so for just one small transaction - a provider IS PENALIZED by $25 charge-back fee - on top of money already spent by a fraudster.

There is NO "safe" amount of money allowed a day. Not even for one hour! The charge-backs today are coming as soon as within 7 days and span back in past for as long as 6 months!

For you, the "smart one" - for a "safe" Romanian fraud which pretended to be a legit customer who made "just" 4 transactions within a month... each transaction of $5 (an example, Callcentric allows $5 transactions) - "only" $20/mo... which could last 4 or 5 months until real card holder discovered that card is "leaking" - that will be REVERSED and CHARGED-BACK for all those 5 months! Resulting in $100 lost on pure funds spent by the fraudster PLUS 4 penalties a month during 5 months = 20 charge-back fees EACH of $25! Total loss = $100 + $500 = $600.

Unfortunately, I personally CANNOT wish it to my enemies! Nor to our competitors.

A "safe" fraud of "small amounts" slowly spent over multiple accounts of several providers has become one of most vicious nightmares of service providers. The labor in Romania is cheap (same in China, South Africa, Palestine, etc) therefore creating 100 or even 1000s accounts all "funded" by small charges from stolen credit cards - may run undetected during long times thus causing the most devastating damage to service providers who are facing unavoidable charge-back fees imposed by banks (for banks - this is a REAL and HUGE profit center; one of "sources" of 4.1% of economical growth reported today by administration; therefore banks are doing all in their power to convince card holders to declare legitimate charges as "fraudulent" whenever a card is lost or stolen or just whenever a card-holder has a bad mood toward a merchant).

It appears as you're not aware that if a provider went broke (as you wrote about it) while "leaving" your few bucks on their account - you're ENTITLED to call your card issuing bank and telling them to refund (charge-back) your transaction. You ARE PROTECTED, but the service provider - NOT AT ALL. The service provider is always in charge and is the ONLY ONE who suffers from credit card crimes. Why are people so blind to not see that?

A Target store network won't suffer any losses from the [PCI's non compliance] crime made by their "responsible" employees, but service providers will pay by even more of their blood spilled by banks and credit networks (as well as by Pay Pal) while suffering consequences of this fraud. All because "smart" people don't understand how the credit card industry works.

And last - please don't talk here about "merchants knowing their risks and their business..."... otherwise one day you'll wake up to the ONLY AT&T or at&t (already going there) mighty service provider of everything...

ymhee_bcex
Premium
join:2006-04-21
Tarzana, CA
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·PHONE POWER
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: Re: Surprisingly, I am NOT

said by Iscream:

Those who're _smarter_ - study the subject first, then show up their opinion... or not tell it at all.
...
For you knowledge ...

For you, the "smart one" ...

It appears as you're not aware ... Why are people so blind to not see that?
...
All because "smart" people don't understand how the credit card industry works.

And last - please don't talk here about "merchants knowing their risks and their business..."...

Also

said by Iscream:

You're soo freaken wrong about security...

You have NO idea of how this service works

Thank you for sharing your opinion with us peons. While I may even agree with some of what you are saying, your nick ("I scream") tells more about you than mine ever will. And I am not interested in engaging in that type of discussion.

That will be my only response.
--
Technical problems are more often than not management incompetence masquerading as technical issues
Iscream
Premium
join:2009-02-17
New York, NY
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

2 edits

1 recommendation

Re: Re: Surprisingly, I am NOT

Yes, that's right - my nick, "Iscream" was chosen exactly because of this reason - because I'm not silent therefore "I scream" when I see wrongdoings. It (the nick) surely tells about myself - it has been explained to these boards in past.

Therefore when I see [the above] wrongdoings, gross negligence, lack of understanding, blind "voting" - all while appealing to loud "peons" (as you like to say it) - then _I_scream_ - yes, I do. This totally groundless (in both - description and ratings) review and following thread have deeply frustrated myself by its clear appeal to attack a provider who does all in their efforts to effectively service extremely competitive marketing niche and, despite it targeted our competitor - I felt accused in the same, because here (in this niche) we're in the same boat as the competitor affected by the undue review while the same [fraud] is targeting us as well. And unlike others - I don't want to, at one day, wake up to a centrally controlled, manipulated and monopolized reality, both - economically and politically.

P.S. I've "appealed" to your nick because of the picture you have there - which is both forever in my childhood's heart and because I've been impressed by your many other posts on those boards.
javamarket

join:2011-05-20
Reviews:
·Bright House

I'll throw in 2 cents, why not

I have a long tenure in the technology space and hold multiple degrees therein. I work hard at fighting back sarcasm as it is a tool for the week minded. I often find myself failing at the latter. With that disclaimer:

I've had my difficulties with VoIP.ms over the years I have (and continued to) use(d) them. These difficulties have ordinarily been canned answers to technical problems that were never properly vetted or handled by individuals with a skill set commensurate with the issue. Honestly this has increased over time as VoIP.ms has grown, it has not gotten better.

That said, however, in my experience I have not found another VoIP provider that is comparable to the overall experience with VoIP.ms most especially when viewed from a cost / service basis. In addition, a firm not only has a right to try to protect itself from fraud, but an obligation or else it can find itself complicit to the actions.

In respect to this specific event, I believe VoIP.ms goes not only to reasonable but I assert great lengths to make it known that some destinations of telephone traffic are of a higher risk, and (pay attention now) ... new accounts may have these blocked by default. If this causes you a point of frustration, the fault is your own.

When you make a CC purchase or and ACH purchase often these are straight through processes. Refunds are manual. This explains why it takes moments to accept your money and "time" to return it.
inbonobo

join:2001-12-06
North York, ON

Re: I'll throw in 2 cents, why not

I don't doubt voip.ms is a great company. It seems to me that the OP was complaining about is the security check which seems much like "security theater" (look it up on Wikipedia) and the possible ethnic profiling. Nobody doubts that fraud is rampant, the question is to what extent the existing "security measures" protect the provider from fraud more than annoying legitimate customers.

For similar ethnic profiling / stupid security, consider the following goo gl urls: UoIaoj and IAJVPo (these are just the first that come to mind).

Security measures that have no benefit other than delay should be avoided, as they reflect poorly on those who use them: ZNSWcO

(it's unclear to me what's the link policy here so I used the google shortener)

Review by (hidden by request)

  • Location: L4n5r
  • Cost: $10 per month (month by month)
Good "Price and access to features"
Bad "Support, phone quality reliability"
Web-site:
Ease of Installation:
Call Quality:
Reliability:
Tech Support:
Value for money:
(ratings well below consensus)

We at computer geeks on call have multiple clients using voip.ms, overall
we've had an ok experience.

Our main issues
Is that when they transfer the numbers, they don't properly notify bell of
the transfer so that people hooked up to that service area have problems calling in; this has happened twice so far.

Our phones on all servers randomly stop working;
They stop in-between calls; we randomly stop receiving calls.

There support never blaims themselves and always blaims our carriers however this is 50 serperate isps in 50 separate areas across north America all happens at the sametime; I likely think not.



(review was emailed from domain computergeeksoncall.ca)
lodged 1.4 years ago

Comments:

Frazdalo

@37.247.55.x

Bell Always Cancels

Our main issues
Is that when they transfer the numbers, they don't properly notify bell of
the transfer so that people hooked up to that service area have problems calling in; this has happened twice so far.

Any time somebody with a dsl account ports his phone number out of Bell, Bell will not only port the number, but cancel the dsl account, unless the dsl account is with Bell.

You can notify Bell all you want that you wish to keep the account and just port out the number, but if your dsl account is not with Bell, it will be canceled.
PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Graustark
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·Callcentric

Not necessarily their fault

You said:

Our main issues is that when they transfer the numbers, they don't properly notify Bell of the transfer so that people hooked up to that service area have problems calling in; this has happened twice so far.

When you say transfer, I assume that you are referring to number portability, also referred to as porting.

Being in the computer field yourselves, I am sure that you will agree that the proper use of technical terms is important for mutual comprehension.

I believe that you are blaming Voip.MS unfairly in that particular area.

This can happen with ANY VoIP provider, and generally it is NOT the fault of the VoIP provider or their CLEC.

Rather, it is usually the fault of the PREVIOUS provider and/or that company's ILEC/CLEC. In your case that would be Bell Canada that has failed to fully or promptly update their routing tables.

Sometimes it could be other LEC companies (such as Telus or Fibernetics) that haven't updated their routing tables....

But Voip.MS and [their] CLEC can't hold a gun to those other companies. Besides, you have stricter gun control in Canada.

Our main issues is that when they transfer the numbers, they don't properly notify Bell of the transfer so that people hooked up to that service area have problems calling in; this has happened twice so far.

Twice is NOT a lot, by the way.

But REALLY----given the pretty good reputation of Voip.MS, and the AWFUL reputation of BellCanada, why do you go off and blame Voip.MS?

-----

I am referring to your specific comments on the number porting. I can't comment on the other concerns that you raise.

Some more info on number portability on the US side, Canada is similar but not identical:
»www.npac.com/number-portability/···np-works

ajhaji
Premium
join:2002-03-02
North York, ON
Reviews:
·AEI Internet
·Anveo
·voip.ms

VoIP.ms and Reliability

VoIP.ms has been having reliability issues, to be sure. One need only look at their problem tracker to see all the outages that have occurred over the past several months. They are working hard on moving their servers away from a troublesome datacenter and into somewhere more reliable.

I have experienced these reliability issues firsthand, especially with the servers in Canada. I've switched to the Houston server and had generally good results.

Before I moved my DIDs away from VoIP.ms, I would occasionally receive a fast busy tone when calling the number from a landline or cell phone. This happened perhaps 10% of the time. For a business, 10% is big enough that you're missing a good chunk of your clients' calls, so I had to move my DIDs over to Anveo. VoIP.ms may have improved this since then, but I have no means of verifying.

Review by sunday8pm See Profile

  • Location: undisclosed location
  • Cost: $5 per month
Good "Tech support answers fast and even deals with your Asterisk configuration problems"
Bad "Call quality went downhill since a few months, some servers are overloaded (newyork), dropped support for international tollfree"
Overall "When my credit finishes, I will take my business elsewhere"
Web-site:
Ease of Installation:
Call Quality:
Reliability:
Tech Support:
Value for money:
(ratings below consensus)

My Other Reviews

·Bell Sympatico
It used to be very good but it degraded very much over the last few months.
I am a light user and I have to contact support at least once a week because I am getting disconnections, unroutable (valid) numbers or poor call quality (value routes sound better than premium routes...)

I am very disappointed with voip.ms and it is no longer my provider of choice.

They force a 25$ minimum top-up amount, they don't route international toll free anymore without warning, calls outside the US/Canada are very expensive when compared to other providers and the premium route really is not worth it.

When I run out of credit, I will not renew and will take my business elsewhere. I am not the only one, many people who were very happy with the service before are doing the same.

member for 4.5 years, 554 visits, last login: 3 days ago
updated 1.7 years ago

Comments:
MartinM
VoIP.ms
Premium,VIP
join:2008-07-21
kudos:3

Standard

Hello,

$25 has alway been our minimum top off. We never expires your balance. Nothing changed there. Same thing since 2007.

I sense that you're angry because you somehow managed to dial some International Toll-Free numbers. This type of Termination has never been advertised nor did we remove anything. If it worked for you somewhere, it may be just luck or a badly configured provider that allowed those calls by mistake. We terminate Canada and USA Toll-Free only. It has been this way since 2007 there's nothing really to tell customers.

It's just not true that people are leaving us, quite the contrary. If you fee like it, let us know what was the international toll-free number that was working so I can verify what provider allowed them by mistake. (Are they even advertised in our rating table?). Perhaps we could see you the route but I don't think our provider intended for this to work.

It would have been a good idea to include the country destination you experienced so many problems with according to what you wrote.

Regards,

--
Martin - VoiP.ms

Review by jkb3 See Profile

  • Location: Oakville,ON
  • Cost: $365 per month
Good "Easy to use interface, call quality, web site features"
Bad "Can't buy online DIDs blocked account for no reason"
Web-site:
Ease of Installation:
Call Quality:
Reliability:
Tech Support:
Value for money:
(ratings below consensus)

Hi Everyone, just wanted to see if anyone else is having this issue with VoIP.ms where they blocked your account so you can't purchase DIDs. I have close to 50 DID's with them and spend on avg $350/mth just on origination and DIDs very little termination. They blocked my account from. When I try to order get the following message:

This account is unable to purchase more DIDs

Please contact support for more information.

Every time I speak with support they don't give me a reason why just say to email them when I want to buy a DID. It's a frustrating and long process trying to go over emails (support ticket) trying to get a DID since you can't pick any more and they assign you crappy DID # so I had to resort to another provider. Maybe someone from VoIP.ms that cares can get this resolved if now I'll be porting out my DID's to a CELC to skip the middle man like VoIP.ms.

member for 12.8 years, 21 visits, last login: 1.6 years ago
updated 2 years ago

Comments:

suppafly
Premium
join:2009-11-27
Reviews:
·Cablemas

Hello

Your account could have been flagged automatically by the system for one of several reasons. We always try to be reasonable, if you would d kindly send me your ticket via PM I will make sure that everything is explained accurately.

Thank you for your cooperation
--
Peter Sahui - VoIP.ms
jkb3

join:2002-02-08
Oakville, ON

Re: Hello

Hi Peter,

I did open a ticket, two actually and you responded to it ignoring the question why my account was suspended from buying DIDs? I even called in for support and the telephone support ignored me and said to just submit tickets. You just said to me in the ticket to send you the, rate center desired and quantity of the DIDs I want to buy. With all the carriers I do business they list DIDs so I can pick and choose instant activation, with VoIP.ms now I have to wait to see if the rate center is serviced then assigned a DID chosen by your staff.

suppafly
Premium
join:2009-11-27
Reviews:
·Cablemas

Re: Hello

Hello

My memory may be failing me, but I do not remember answering this ticket recently, I deal with dozens of tickets every day and I certainly can not recall something that may have happened months ago. I am not aware of your VoIP.ms account or ticket number at the moment, so unfortunately I can not give an accurate reply. If you could send me your ticket number, I will have the sales department reply to your inquiry.

Thank you for your cooperation, you posted here you wanted someone from VoIP.ms to solve this, and that is what im trying to do.

Regards,
--
Peter Sahui - VoIP.ms
jkb3

join:2002-02-08
Oakville, ON

Re: Hello

Hi Peter it's was early 2012, I have been using you guys for a long time and want to continue to do business. I'm not sure if you can get the sales guys to look at the account as you said in the ticket "I do not have information about the status of your account, other than it is able to purchase numbers in the way mentioned above." aka open ticket, wait... and then I'll have a DID assigned.

If you can kindly look into this matter for me that would be much appreciated.

Here are the two ticket ID# 469646 and 525768

Regards,
J
MichelR

join:2011-07-03
Ottawa, ON

1 recommendation

Not a review

I don't mean to be an a**, but that's not a review, it's a question. You should have posted this in VoIP Tech Chat...
jkb3

join:2002-02-08
Oakville, ON

Re: Not a review

Hi Michel,

I would say it's a review as support has been ignoring the questions. So just wanted to write about my experience how it's they deal with problems that are not answered or ignored by support. Like I said in my review call quality is good, price is OK, I have been with them for years so maybe something can be done. Maybe after all there are more clients that were denied access to the full VoIP.ms platform for no reason and support would not fix it. So a public review of the services might get something straighten out.

Regards,
J
rigelex

join:2012-11-13

What is the status of your problem?

Has voip.ms answered your question about why you are not allowed to buy any more DIDs? Someone like you, who spends $350 a month with them should certainly be taken good care of.

If they do not take good care of you, how will they treat the little people like me who spend only a few dollars a month?
Iscream
Premium
join:2009-02-17
New York, NY
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

A review instead of trouble-ticket? - weird at least

I find it a bit strange when a customer, who has happened to be more than 10 years in this forum, where discussions of questions like this one are a regular matter, acts by posting a negative review for a pure technical issue - all instead of attempting to resolve the same issue with help-desk people.

Voip.ms, as most other VoIP providers are facing a huge Internet related fraud risk and exposure on a daily basis.

They have developed and use software that helps them to automatically identify and isolate attempts to [possibly] defraud their service. The whole purpose of using such automated systems - it's to be able to provide service at less cost than it would be should they keep multiple staffers on salary.

Are such systems ideal, always providing 100% protection? - of course not; there are some false positives - then a manual "intervention" is required, but the whole process of manual escalation is by itself a part of isolation of possible fraudsters from normal customers.

Just to hint a bit - do any of you ever attempt to attack a security personnel at airport when they ask you to remove your belts, shoes and/or rise your hands? - unfortunately, this is a very nature of the world we now all live in.

So instead of attacking those who try to minimize your cost of service - you better try to think how you may help them, save their time and improve their security procedures.

A note to a reader - I represent a competing company who also, on a daily basis has to fight Internet fraud. And we also have cases exactly like this one. And we also have "reviewers"who use this forum as a place to trash/bash a provider just because "they can". I'm simply trying to warn people reading reviews like this one - multiple reviews should carefully be read to create an in-dept understanding of how the service works/worked throughout the time and what other people expressed about this same service - please don't rely solely on "experts" whose only goal is to express their childish anger because they couldn't get a toy right at the moment they wanted it (I'm not talking yet about those "experts" who were possibly paid [directly or otherwise] to make their dirty work).
jkb3

join:2002-02-08
Oakville, ON

Re: A review instead of trouble-ticket? - weird at least

Hi Iscream,

Thank you for you reply but if you read the post I did contact help desk person, had multiple chats with them and even phone calls they have denied me the rights and the reason to why I can't buy DIDs. Now I found out it's because a SINGLE DID was ported out of the system after purchase (not ported out by us but my friend with out my knowledge) So If you read the other posts I have been trying to get this resolved since early 2012. After always getting a answer to buy DIDs manually I found it weird when I singed up a brand new account, passed the security check for a new account and I was able to buy a DID. Oddd....

So there was a reason why they didn't want to sell me DIDs but after getting my voice heard publicly some action was done and finally the same support staff that denied me the reason why I wasn't able to buy a DID escalated the issue to his team lead and got it resolved. Odd but true. If you don't believe me I can show you the tickets transcripts and dates so trust me I tried to contact them prior to this and finally something was done so I'm happy that its been finally resolved. If there are more people out there with the same issues I hope they were not blocked with out any notices.

suppafly
Premium
join:2009-11-27
Reviews:
·Cablemas

2 edits

Re: A review instead of trouble-ticket? - weird at least

Hello jkb3.

I am very glad the issue is now resolved. We look forward to keep providing you with a good service for your end customers, we appreciate your continued business.

We also see that you have been porting more numbers to our network on the last days, we thank you for your continued trust in our company and in the value of our service, we will do our best to meet your expectations.

It is also my knowledge you now have a direct contact for one of our supervisors at technical support, we understand business customers may have different needs/requirements than a home customer.

Thank you for your patronage,
--
Peter Sahui - VoIP.ms

XCOM
digitalnUll
Premium
join:2002-06-10
Spring, TX

hu?

I am not one to be jumping on reviews and commenting BUT... This review makes no sense at all... Is sad to know the reviewer is been here for 10yrs and has no clue what he just did. This is not a review.
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$
aleyn

join:2002-12-31
Waterloo, ON

Re: hu?

I think it's a review and have found this thread very helpful to evaluate voip.ms. An observation of a customer service problem through it's cycle is probably more useful than even a technical review as I'd like to assert that primary reason many of us are not using traditional telcos is, in fact, the attrocious customer service that they provide. If voip.ms provide notably better customer service (they unquestionably do!), then they deserve more business, but we won't know any of this without direct and blunt discussion and observation of the handling of customer service problems.

Review by mikeima See Profile

  • Location: South Hadley,Hampshire,MA
  • Cost: $2 per month (3 month contract)
  • Install: about 999 days
Good "Cheap; great customization"
Bad "AWFUL SERVICE"
Overall "bad call routing; skip this one"
Web-site:
Ease of Installation:
Call Quality:
Reliability:
Tech Support:
Value for money:
(ratings well below consensus)

I really wanted to give voip.ms a try. Their pricing and customization is great, and the subaccounts allowing multiple devices is a great feature. However.. their service is awful. The time to connect a call is painfully slow, but the inbound routing is what made me drop them. I worked with them for 3 months to correct the problem; but ultimately they said I was lying. The problem was when someone called the call would not connect and just drop. All of their tests worked (loopback etc) but after 10+ people have told me that they could not connect (including 2 of my own cell phones on different networks) The fact that voicemail didn't even connect meant it was their problem but working with their chat service proved to be an exercise in futility. At one point they called me to test the line and told me they could not talk to me that I had to use chat to communicate with them. That's just poor service.

I switched to callcentric and have had ZERO problems with call connects. (I have had 5+ years of experience with voip providers in a business setting)

member for 2.6 years, 0 visits, last login: 2.6 years ago
updated 2.6 years ago

Comments:
grand total

join:2005-10-26
Mississauga
kudos:2

Contract?

You had a 3-month contract with VoIP.ms? I wasn't aware that a contract was even possible.

N9MD
Too busy to chat
Premium
join:2005-10-08
Boca Raton, FL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Callcentric
·VOIPO
·CIKTEL Telecom

Re: Contract?

said by grand total:

You had a 3-month contract with VoIP.ms? I wasn't aware that a contract was even possible.

No ... the reviewer stated: "I worked with them for 3 months to correct the problem..."

Review by andrew00david See Profile

  • Location: Beaverton,Washington,OR
  • Cost: $20 per month (month by month)
Bad "bad customer service in dealing with delayed order of phone-line"
Web-site:
Ease of Installation:
Call Quality:
Reliability:
Tech Support:
Value for money:
(ratings well below consensus)

July 7th I bought credit and ordered a new york, argentine, and german phone line. the new york and argentine numbers came quickly, the german line took a few days before i got an e-mail requesting evidence of german residency (which apparently is standard procedure, so why it took several days to get to the point of requesting it i don't know - slow customer service already). i send it to them within 5 minutes of their request e-mail, and get no reply. a day or two later i ask for a status update, i don't get it. a day or two later i ask again, i get no reply. i try phoning but don't reach them. i use live-chat, i get someone who makes it sound like it's not a big deal, they're working on it. i say, it is a big deal, noone has even replied to my request for a status update. he says people are working on it, that the right department has it. i say, i have been waiting now days and days for a status update, for a number i ordered last week, and noone has even bothered to reply. that a web site launch and ordering of business cards/flyers are delayed, and i need at least a reply with an update as to the status. he says fine, 24hours (this is in the morning). I say no, have someone reply today. He says ok. I wait - no reply. Then i wait an entire additional work-day - still no replies. I mail again during their supposed customer support hours - no reply. I try live-chat but give up after waiting awhile on hold. I still have no reply, so I just mailed them asking for a full 100% refund on all money i have sent them, and a cancellation of all phone lines (I don't want just the german line, i want a solution for all 3 countries - i maintain residence and business operations and regular travel in all 3 .. not that it really matters! my main problem here is not some bureaucratic delay, it is that i receive not even the basic courtesy and politeness of replies, both promised and requested, to my problems. i am being ignored.) i mentioned in one of my mails or chats from 1-2 days ago that i would, if they did not bother to send me some type of reply or status update that day (and i gave them an extra day), take my complaint to the public voip forums, but that i really hoped it wouldn't come to that. well, it has.

p.s. since i assume that voip.ms will reply to this forum, which is public, even though they did not ever bother to reply to my queries and requests on their internal mail-ticketing system - i have no interest in fixing my problems by public forum. i gave your people several chances to fix the problem in the appropriate manner - in private and within your system - and now i am just relaying my experience with your service, and expecting a complete refund of all money sent and cancellation of all lines and services. i will not reply again to this message on the forum except if there is some problem in receiving a refund from them, in which case i will post it. i sincerely hope not.

p.p.s. the 3 or 4 test calls i made on the service did work great. i'm sure their actual service is quite functional, it's just their customer service and lack of respect to me as a customer that was not good.

member for 3.3 years, 1 visits, last login: 3.3 years ago
lodged 3.3 years ago

Comments: