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Review by ka4tmb See Profile

  • Location: College Park, Prince Georges, MD, USA
  • Cost: $69 per month (12 month contract)
  • Install: about 43 days
  • Telco party Verizon
  • CLEC party: NorthPoint
Pre Sales information:
Install Co-ordination:
Connection reliability:
Tech Support:
Services:
Value for money:

***UPDATE: (5/11/2001)

XO has dropped the "Home Office" SDSL completely. This is what they called it if your line could NOT qualify for Line Sharing (as in ADSL). Because XO was loosing money, they decided to NOT continue with SDSL at the "Home Office" rates, but instead wanted to charge Business rates at a much higher cost. That means that the SDSL I was paying $69 per month for, would now cost me $199 or more, per month, at LESS than the speed I was getting before, with nearly the same features.

I was told by a Customer Care person at XO, that this was so XO wouldn't go out of business, like many of their competitors. I guess that XO figures that THEIR CUSTOMERS ARE *NOT* IMPORTANT, so they can either cut them off or jack up the rates, instead of offering the customer alternatives UNDER THE *CURRENT CONTRACT*! After all, we as customers are only the ones who make it possible for them to stay in business, so why should they need us anyway???.

Funny. They started out with high praises from me, but now have really screwed themselves on THIS (former advocate's) review (A TREND?).

XO will NOT be reprovisioning my line, NOR WILL THEY EVEN TRY. But they WILL be glad to suck me dry of hard earned dollars for a more expensive line - at a LOWER service speed - if I let them.

(NOTE: Since the line was activated in January, I believe XO Sales and Support both were aware that it's NorthPoint customers might suffer the "cut off" fate, but didn't bother to tell anyone UP FRONT, or to keep them posted AS TIME WENT ON. This shows really POOR operation of the company as a whole, which affects how long a company can stay in business).

My only other comment is to echo what another reviewer said:

"THEY SHOULD BE SUED AND SHUT DOWN".

Guess it's time for a little "Class Action", eh?

***UPDATE: NorthPoint filed Chapter11, and no longer provides DSL to my location, as of 3/28/2001. XO is working to resolve DSL issue and providing temp dialup in the mean time. DSL could be down as long as 30-60 days.***

I requested highest speed up to 640kbps, given my location from TelCo switch (more than 15,000 ft). Verizon would not deliver, since my location could not meet their "640kbps min. standard" for distance. Covad could not deliver, but never said why, just kept cancelling my repeated orders. (Covad and Internet Express in "dispute" at the time). XO Comm had solution using NorthPoint SDSL.

Cost: Hoped for $34.95/mo as Verizon advertises, but had to go with SDSL due to distance, at $69/mo. Previously had ISDN (thru BA) at 128kbps for 2B+D which ran as much as $90 per mo. OUCH!

Order/Install process went without a hitch, start to finish. Equipment is 3Com, connected to 100 Mbps Linksys switch w/four workstations. WORKS GREAT! IP is STATIC (one for each workstation). Simutaneous use of workstations slows DSL down a little, but not much.

Been up and running since 1/18/2001 to date. Have not experienced any known disconnects/down time as of yet.

Tech support and online web hosting crew are tops, know their stuff, and are patient. (That's a plus - I get cranky with "help desk" people who don't know their stuff). Very pleased with XO's tech support as well as sales (pre & post install).

member for 23.1 years, 6 visits, last login: 22.7 years ago
updated 22.8 years ago


DSUSER
@techincorp.com

DSUSER

Anon

XO is not using Northpoint as DSL provider anymore

Last month all new accounts went to COVAD. Call XO and they will confirm.

dreadlord60
join:2000-12-04
Buffalo, NY

dreadlord60

Member

XO is using Northpoint

Covad is shutting down a number of CO's the XO business is going to Northpoint.

princej
@bellatlantic.net

princej to DSUSER

Anon

to DSUSER

Re: XO is not using Northpoint as DSL provider anymore

I use XO with Northpoint. Get facts right! Northpoint came out yesterday to repair my line.
ka4tmb
join:2001-01-25
College Park, MD

ka4tmb to DSUSER

Member

to DSUSER
said by DSUSER:
Last month all new accounts went to COVAD. Call XO and they will confirm.
UPDATE: Got call from XO tonight (3/27/2001). NorthPoint filed Chapter 11 and XO is switching ALL NorthPoint DSL customers to COVAD DSL, if possible. AT&T bought out NorthPoint, but does NOT want the NorthPoint customer base (according to XO). If you have XO & NorthPoint, be advised that you may wind up with XO & Covad. XO is offering temporary dialup service when the DSL is disconnected, for perhaps as long at 30 to 60 days (OUCH!). Top speed for me is 26.4kbps due to poor line quality (Thank you, Bell Atlantic/Verizon!)

Feel free to email me directly if you wish. (agree/disagree/just_blow_off steam).

Thanks,
Steve
mailto:steven@heyde.cncdsl.com
mcaslan
join:2000-06-17
Baltimore, MD

mcaslan

Member

What SDSL speed at 15000 feet...

What SDSL speed do you get at 15000 feet.

At 15400 the best speed is 416/416 which under ATM results in 386/386. SDSL has been fantastic for me using the exact same setup, Bridge, and Linksys. We are now using IBS Networks, I decided to stay local trying to enhance my chances for performance and an ISP that focused local.

We had an ISP that went bankrupt late in the year and unfortunately the transfer failed so my circuit was turned down. It took ages to get the new order completed because Verizon kept saying the address was not serviceable. Thankfully Northpoint pursued the case. I mention this because if any further ISP's go bankrupt, the best move is to follow the transfer closely and allow yourself to be part of the 'transferred users'.
ka4tmb
join:2001-01-25
College Park, MD

ka4tmb

Member

Re: What SDSL speed at 15000 feet...

mcaslan:
At approx. 15000 ft. my line tests up to 416 both up and down. The actual average throughput is around 384 down, depending on the site I access and how busy they are.
Steve
mhaque
join:2001-03-23
Hyattsville, MD

mhaque

Member

Covad did the same for me

I'm in Hyattsville, MD (probably not far from you) and Covad did the same thing. Kept cancelling my orders.

Northpoint on the otherhand pushed Verizon and got me the 416k that I ordered. I probably could have gotten higher if I wanted when I talked to the tech.

*sigh* Got a call last night though. Judge threw out the ISP coalitions request to keep the network up for a transitional period so I'll be down for 30-60 days.

If Covad starts cancelling my order again I'll be severly pissed. They're running out the same CO that Northpoint did. If they still complain about distance issues they ought to use better equipment.

Review by leeelia See Profile

  • Location: Chicago, Cook, IL, USA
  • Cost: $500 per month (12 month contract)
  • Telco party Ameritech
  • CLEC party: NorthPoint
pre sales
post sales rep and news
they suck
Pre Sales information:
Install Co-ordination:
Connection reliability:
Tech Support:
Services:
Value for money:

Failed to inform us of Northpoint line that we were on. Just turned us off on April 4th and said that we would be back up in 1 month. Sales rep told me he had no idea about Northpoint, although documents that he sent about Northpoint were dated January. He was a lying sack of garbage I hope they go under.

member for 22.9 years, 23 visits, last login: 22.6 years ago
lodged 22.9 years ago







Review by CFC8 See Profile

  • Location: Palatine, Cook, IL, USA
  • Cost: $400 per month
  • Telco party Ameritech
  • CLEC party: Covad
Good stable line, good speed, good tech support
Originally have Northpoint as CLEC, cost
At the office we LOVE our DSL line - it's great!
Install Co-ordination:
Connection reliability:
Tech Support:
Services:
Value for money:

We first had our XO SDSL line ordered nearly a year ago. Unfortunately, there was a screw up on the order and even though Ameritech came to our building they could do nothing as the address on the order was wrong (go figure). So we had to submit a new order and wait another 8 weeks. So in the August/September time frame of 2000, we finally got our DSL line from XO installed. Northpoint was the CLEC. Things worked well and everyone in the office loved the service. We have about 15 machines all connected via Microsoft Small Business Server. It works well.

The week before Northpoint shut down our support contractor called me with the news that XO informed him that Northpoint was going belly up and that we would lose our SDSL service for a period of about 30 to 45 days while they migrated us to Covad. They then began the process to switch us. I was hoping against hope that the switch would happen before they pulled the plug on Northpoint. It didn't. A few days later, I tried to remotely get in to the network and found it completely down. The next day (a Friday), I scrambled to get everyone back on a dial-up connection (XO gave us free unlimited dial-up). So we went from sharing a 1.1 Mb connection to sharing a 56K connection! Oh well.

Anyhow, i called XO tech support during that time and even though they were busy, they helped me out with some of the e-mail hosting issues, etc during this time. They were good. I think once when I called they said I was #50 in the queue! It didn't take long though. Of course, everyone was calling them that Friday.

That next week we received e-mails from XO on the status of the order. In the middle of the week, we received a notice that Ameritech would be out to install the new line the next Monday! WHAT??? They got Ameritech to do something within a week? Oh my gosh! Sure enough, the next Monday, Ameritech arrived and verified the line to the outside of the building was working.

At that point I installed the inside line to that point in the NIB, and tried to even bypass having Covad come out, but I couldn't figure out how to get our router configured and up and working. Since network support is my "second" job at work, I figured I'd wait until Covad came. We then got a note that Covad would be out the next Monday.

Sure enough, Covad came out and finished there end right on time. Even brought a new Netopia 7200 router (What do I do with my old Netopia 7100 router???). Within about 15 minutes, we were back in business. Aside from a screw-up with our IP addresses on the order, the process went very smoothly. XO tech support quickly corrected the mistake and re-built us into the system.

The total time we were down after Northpoint went belly up was about 11 business days! It was UNBELIEVABLE! I cannot believe how quickly the switch took place.

XO really came through for us and did a great job. We are very pleased.

We are told we have a 1.1 Mb SDSL line, but I can't get it to test more than around 680K each way, I think that may be due to our proxy server, so I should test it on a machine connected directly to the router. Everyone is happy at the office again!

I'd recommed XO for business applications anyday!

member for 22.9 years, 5 visits, last login: 22.9 years ago
lodged 22.9 years ago

System

Anon

got lucky

You got lucky. I had lunch yesterday with my friend who works at XO. He made the mistake of selling DSL to his brother. Now the only time they talk is when his brother calls him up to scream at him because no one can fix his DSL line.
CFC8
join:2001-04-26
Palatine, IL

CFC8

Member

Re: got lucky

Well, it helps to have a support contractor who does a lot of work with XO. At least that's what I think helps. Most of his clients use them. Perhaps we got lucky, but I'd rather be lucky than good!
MusicMan81
join:2001-01-29
Manchester, CT

MusicMan81

Member

COVAD WEBSITE WILL REBATE

the router costs....

Surprised XO doesn't tell you that
CFC8
join:2001-04-26
Palatine, IL

CFC8

Member

Re: COVAD WEBSITE WILL REBATE

Interesting. I didn't know that we'd been charged for the new router. It was my understanding it was no cost. I'll have to check into it. Thanks for the heads-up.

Shane XO
@nextlink.net

Shane XO to MusicMan81

Anon

to MusicMan81
Working for XO communications...i know that we did offer free routers while covad was offering the rebate routers. So check your sources again...I think our offer ended at the end of april
Anon
Anon

Anon

Anon

Thank you!!

Those were hectic times for those of us in XO DSL tech support, but the hard work was worth it. Thank you so much, I love working for this company. Take care.

Review by ROKKSTAR See Profile

  • Location: New York, New York, NY, USA
  • Cost: $89 per month
  • Install: about 130 days
  • Telco party Verizon
  • CLEC party: Covad
When it works its great
Since the merger Tech support is non-existent & connectivity has degraded.
"THEY SUCK!"
Pre Sales information:
Install Co-ordination:
Connection reliability:
Tech Support:
Services:
Value for money:

Since the merger with Next link; Tech support is non-existent & connectivity has degraded by 90%.
I'm located 3 blocks for the central office of the tel co. and my service while excellent in the past (till early NOV. 2000) is now spotty at best.

Here's some history: (All quotes are those of XO.COM Tech Support.)

1)4 months from oder date to install completion. this due to Verison.The 13th installer spent 6 hours and finaly got the line in.

2)orderd 768/384 connectivity with 4 static IP's. according to DSL reports line test I get 650/650
perfomance; when the dsl line works.

3)Jan 16 2001 No service "well, we dont see anything wrong here; is your router plugged in?" "oh ok well if it's not up by tomorrw call us."

4)Jan 17 2001No service I requested that they have Covad contact Verison because there had been a Verison truck in the neighborhood. could Verison have cut the wires by mistake. "oh no that could never have happened, we'll call Covad and have them run a test on your line."

5)Jan 19 2001Still no service "We got a call from Covad, it seems one of the Verison field techs cut your DSL line because he did'nt hear a tone on it. We can't realy say when it will be fixed."

6)Jan 25 2001DSL line finaly up again.

7)Feb 6 2001No service I reboot the modem (Speedstream 5250) and the connection is up again. I called XO tech support and asked about replaceing the modem since these symptoms are duplicates of those 6 months prior when Covad needed to replace the modem. a debate over warrenty follwed.

8)Feb 25 2001 Covad replaces the modem.

9)April 6 2001 Dropped connections 6 to 8 times a day they is no connectivity; then after 10 -30 mins the connection is back up.
this has continued to date (4/18/2001)
Tech support says that they will call back and no call is ever recieved.
The tech staff that I do talk to on follow up phone calls seems lost as to what to do; and also tell me that there supervisors tell them to close any trouble tickets after 4 days; even if they are unresolved.

During the writting of this post I again lost my connection.
I recommended Concentric to 40 people last year and they all connected with them. I truly regret that recommendation now.

James NYC.

member for 23.1 years, 44 visits, last login: 16.2 years ago
lodged 22.9 years ago


Review by dreadlord60 See Profile

  • Location: Buffalo, Erie, NY, USA
  • Cost: $69 per month (12 month contract)
  • Install: about 40 days
  • Telco party Verizon
  • CLEC party: Covad
Easy to understand Bill
Poor Tech Support, Folks do not return calls
Say No to XO
Pre Sales information:
Install Co-ordination:
Connection reliability:
Tech Support:
Services:
Value for money:

Update

Shortly after posting my original report, I was contacted by Nicole B. a supervisor with the President's Executive Response Team. She was acquainted with the my dilemma, professional and extremely knowledgeable. I was compelled to give them one more try, following her proffer to see a new install through personally. Further research indicated my DSL circuit was abandoned by Covad without notice.

I was live in 14 days and extremely pleased.

In retrospect, I think much of the difficulty lies with Covad, their whimsical business rules and of course Verizon.

...still with XO. Thanks Nicole.

My experience with these folks is summarized in a letter I just faxed to their CEO.

Monday, December 04, 2000

Nate Davis
President
XO Communications
11111 Sunset Hills Road
Reston, VA 20190-5339

Dear Mr. Davis:

XO DSL service was installed on 16 SEP 00, at my residence. I chose XO based upon my prior experience with Concentric. The web site hosting services have been excellent.

In the two months following the installation, the DSL connection failed 3 times resulting in more than 20 days offline and requiring more than 30 calls to customer support. This due in no small part to the fact Technical Support rarely returns phone calls. Each incident began with an initial diagnosis of 'Imbalance on the Line .

The most recent incident, lingered for 12 days before Technical Support advised, 'There is voltage on the line . 'You should cancel your account , was proffered as technical support.

I expected someone in the support section to offer me a credit on my account and more importantly to expedite a functional installation. I was offered neither. Instead technical support suggested I talk to 'Billing and then 'Customer Development . Even the salesman who took my original order did not return my call.

I have received extremely poor service from your company. You undertook an obligation to provide DSL service and instead delivered inconvenience. To compound matters, XO never offered to correct the situation.



member for 23.3 years, 59 visits, last login: 20 years ago
updated 22.9 years ago


crazydslguy
@covad.com

crazydslguy

Anon

Who was the backbone?

Who was the backbone provider and which phone company services your area?
System

Anon

It was covad if they were involved.

Xo themselves seem ok, but covad is a joke. They rejected my order saying that DSL was not available in my area, they made up some story about a RSU on the line, which is not DSL compatible, which is not true. XO is trying to work it out with them but they are irritating me to the point of Verizon. They database they use is months old. I even have Verizon saying I qualify and have contacts their but no luck getting covad to wake up. A useless middle man in my opinion, you still use verizon anyways or whever your local telco is.

DSL is all big circle, best suited for those who like to point fingers. If cable is available and you don't need business services, jump on it.

Hopefully you are wrong about xo. Hopefully..

dreadlord60
join:2000-12-04
Buffalo, NY

dreadlord60 to crazydslguy

Member

to crazydslguy

Re: Who was the backbone? Covad

Evidently they accepted the line with the stray voltage on it......And then hid their head in the sand.
kibbie
join:2001-11-19
Canoga Park, CA

kibbie

Member

Nicole B. please contact me!

I wish I could get someone to actually help me like Nicole did you.

I had Earthlink DSL in our NY office and it was OK. We moved a few blocks away and Earthlink could no longer service us. Did a little research and found XO among the short list of providers for DSL. Placing the order was great, communication on the order status great, installed it a day early..great, hasn't worked more than four days since the day after it was installed. This has been SINCE 10/10/2001 (over a month now).

I have called approx three times a day, five days a week for about three and a half weeks to get it resolved. We have replaced the router, the "card" at the C.O. and have done endless tests. Everything they try and do to determine the problem takes days to do. If there service was down I am sure they would have a team of people working on it and it would be solved quickly.

Don't get me wrong...the service reps have friendly, helpful, understanding and so on. My trouble ticket has been escalated so long I need oxygen to breath...Still, no DSL service.

Nicole B. please help me too.

Review by shawm See Profile

  • Location: San Jose, Santa Clara, CA, USA
  • Business customer Business customer
  • Cost: $100 per month (12 month contract)
  • Install: about 75 days
  • Telco party SBC
  • CLEC party: NorthPoint
Good Points? Hmmm... The sales department?
Everything Else
These guys treat customers very poorly.
Pre Sales information:
Install Co-ordination:
Tech Support:
Value for money:

Here is the body of an email which I recently sent to XO. As an ironic (but not surprising) side-note, they haven't responded yet

To Whom It May Concern:

Our experience with XO has been a total nightmare. Last summer we started the process of having XO (then Concentric)install a DSL line at our office. Other than the initial phone call to sign up, I can't say anything positive about the experience.

From the time we called, it took so long (2.5 months) to get the line up and running that we thought XO had lost our order. When the line was finally installed, the technician was very unprofessional and misconfigured the router. It it weren't for our own expertise, the line would never have worked for us.

The new XO DSL line was meant to replace our PacBell DSL, but when we saw how painfully slow the XO line was (for more money), we decided to keep our PacBell line. Our XO line came with a 30-day money-back guarantee and we decided to cancel our service.

I called XO and (amazingly) got through to a live person who was helpful and faxed me the cancellation form. I signed the form and, as requested, faxed it back to XO. Furthermore, we returned the DSL router to XO within the allotted time.

But the fun didn't stop there. We continue to receive monthly bills and threatening emails from XO, never mind the fact that not one packet of data has crossed that DSL line in months! We have made NUMEROUS attempts to clear this matter up, but none of them have proven successful. We have called several departments, emailed, and snail-mailed -- all with no effect. Most every time we call we wait in a phone queue only to be put through to an answering machine. We have left messages and never received a return call. We have spoken to the billing department and they say "we understand your plight, but it's not our department." I have returned bills with notes attached saying "you never rendered us the services for which you are billing," but we continue to receive bills and nasty emails.

In short, the billing department doesn't care and the service department is unreachable.

Please, please leave us alone. Take us off your bills.

Regretfully,
Michael Shaw

member for 23.6 years, 9 visits, last login: 18.7 years ago
lodged 22.9 years ago


Review by apclayton See Profile

  • Location: Santa Monica, Los Angeles, CA, USA
  • Cost: $470 per month (12 month contract)
  • Install: about 105 days
  • CLEC party: NorthPoint
None
Horrendous customer support, worst I have ever seen in any company regardless of industry
Absolutely would not recommend XO
Pre Sales information:
Install Co-ordination:
Connection reliability:
Tech Support:
Services:
Value for money:

CRAP!!! XO is nothing but crap. I have left 10 messages with the billing department to tell them that they keep screwing up my bills. Not a single call has been returned.

No letters, emails or phone calls warning of the Northpoint shutdown until about 24 hours before they pulled the plug on all four of my offices.

At least I can have some revenge- I haven't paid my bills for a few months because the bills were incorrect. I owe XO over $1,500, and now there is not a chance in hell that I am going to pay it.

Here's my post from a few months back:

I would absolutely not recommend choosing XO as your DSL provider. I ordered 4 dsl lines from XO at the end of July. The days from order to on were 32,45,99 and 105 days, even though my sales person promised that the lines would be operational in 30-45 days. Every single aspect of my relationship with XO has been terrible.

No one returns calls. Account managers are unhelpful. Tech support gives incorrect info. My sales person took 60 days to figure out that he had transposed two numbers in the installation address (It took 105 days for the line to become operational). Even my invoices are wrong. My sales person promised that the first two months on each of my 4 dsl lines would be free, but XO actually started billing me even before the lines were operational. I have called the billing dept at least 10 times and left 5 messages over the last 30 days, and not a single call has been returned. Now the XO collections dept is sending me emails threatening to disconnect my lines!

And XO's internal phone network is terrible. I have lost track of how many times I have received busy signals or simply been disconnected. I have also experienced hold times in excess of 1 hour on numerous occasions. Without exception, XO is the worst company I have ever dealt with in terms of returning or following up on customer inquiries. For $400/month, XO should at least return one of my calls or emails.

The only good thing about XO is that they offer static ip's.

If it weren't such a pain in the behind I would change to another dsl provider in a second. I have had experience with earthlink, BBN and GTE; although there has been room for improvement, these guys are way way above XO.

member for 23.3 years, 4 visits, last login: 22.9 years ago
updated 22.9 years ago


Dr Dave
@z064221133.lax-ca.ds

Dr Dave

Anon

Obviously an isolated case

Funny, I have no problems getting thru to XO. As a matter of fact, of all the times that I have called them, I don't think that I've ever been put on hold. I don't think that the phone numbers that I have are any different than anyone else's. Hmmmmm.....

As far as installs --- they offer the fastest most competent DSL installs that I've seen yet from a company. As a network consultant, I've seen literally over 50 DSL installs over the last couple years and XO is far and away the easiest, fastest and most competent.

Who's the worst, you ask? PacBell!!!!!
JNanas1
join:2001-03-20
Brooklyn, NY

JNanas1

Member

Obviously you've never called BILLING.

Or you're a plant - plain and simple.

I've called these people no less than 20 times, to no avail. I've also left detailed results in my post below regarding my attempts to get credits for my non-working DSL line.

So if you can get through just fine - call billing for me and fix it, OK?

BurntCricket-NoDSL
@cleveland.oh.amerite

BurntCricket-NoDSL to Dr Dave

Anon

to Dr Dave

Re: Obviously an isolated case

You may be surprised >> you may have "special" phone numbers >> users of Ameritech.net know how much can be done and faster if using the "special" phone numbers, and I am sure all providers do have "hidden" numbers that seem to bypass all the crap.
System

Anon

You sound like you're on the payroll.
eijihirai
join:2001-03-23
San Mateo, CA

eijihirai to Dr Dave

Member

to Dr Dave
Would you be so kind as to post the XO Billing department's phone number that you were able to reach? A lot of us who tried calling their billing numbers would really like to know. Thanks.

abcde
@globalcrossing.com

abcde to Dr Dave

Anon

to Dr Dave
Uh, ok, XO is a fine provider.
System

Anon

What you say is amazing because my experience reflects what most of the people in this forum say. I am not an installed customer, and I plan on staying that way.

I ordered service 3/29. Since then, they don't answer my E-Mails about questions I have concerning the installation. They told me I would be notified in 7-10 days of an installation date but no such luck. I called the support number but they don't have a clue either. I finally got notifed of an install date after I sent a letter begging for an answer to "CONTACT US" on their Website. This would have been a corporate account but I want to keep my job.

Shane XO
@nextlink.net

Shane XO to Dr Dave

Anon

to Dr Dave
The first thing i want to say is that The "billing department" is handled by the TECH SUPPORT people now. So with all the NorthPoint shutdown Tech support has been backed up to people waiting for about 45 minutes. This is not our choice and we are handling calls as fast as we can. If you want to know the best time to call tech support call them after business hours...duh. During the night i will guarantee practically no wait time to talk to a rep...oh by the way...SPECIAL NUMBERS...PLEASE honestly do you think they exist.
JNanas1
join:2001-03-20
Brooklyn, NY

JNanas1

Member

NEVER, EVER GET XO DSL. ESPECIALLY FOR BUSINESS.

I can't stress this enough - their tech support people are borderline capable, and their billing folks?

Let's put it this way - if you want to speak to billing, write a note, throw it in a bottle, toss the bottle in the river.

At least that way, you have some REMOTE chance of SOMEDAY getting through to them.

I had my personal DSL with them (technically, I still do - it's been down since 2/27, and I haven't cancelled it, simply because I CANT GET THROUGH TO BILLING).

Here's a tidbit - I'm a longtime technical person now in management, and I learned a few solid points from my years behind the screens. Business lines for telecom need to be two things - highly available, and highly supported. Billing is hard enough for a business to handle when it comes to connectivity - why make it worse by dealing with a company that will practically guarantee you downtime, has the worst, most ignorant tech support possible (no Level 3 - how can you have NO LEVEL 3?), and a billing department that - no joke - had an answering machine that was so full it hung up on me every time I called and tried to leave a message.

They must use XO as their carrier.

shane XO
@nextlink.net

shane XO

Anon

Re: NEVER, EVER GET XO DSL. ESPECIALLY FOR BUSINESS.

I want to say one thing...3rd level tech support. WHY? Would you like to see your ticket get passed up to 5 different people before it reaches the repair team...currently we have one level of tech support which they are able to make a trouble ticket with covad on the first call you make to Tech support. We have found that this works more efficient and you are talking all the levels you will need to talk to.

Review by cmanders See Profile

  • Location: San Francisco, San Francisco, CA, USA
  • Business customer Business customer
  • Cost: $400 per month (12 month contract)
  • Telco party SBC
  • CLEC party: Covad
None that I can think of at all.
Hang up on customers. Treat customers as expendable.
If you are a business, think again on relying on this service.
Pre Sales information:
Install Co-ordination:
Connection reliability:
Tech Support:
Services:
Value for money:

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Hi,

Just so that others are aware of what they are getting with
XO/Concentric, I wanted to post this.

The DSL install was done while Concentric owned everything. As of
November, though, when XO took
control a number of very, very bad things have happened to my
service. The first thing is that my reverse
DNS delegation via RFC2317 was deleted without anyone calling me. I
had to prove that it was their fault,
and the technical people are just not that bright. It is very
difficult to even get a Tier 2 technical person to call
you back. It took two weeks, during which time my DNS was not working
for many of the domain names
that I host. It was restored when I sent repeated messages to a
specific person in the technical center, but it
was a battle. I should have taken that as a hint and left their
service at that time, as it got even worse.

A month later I started loosing connectivity for huge time segments,
for no reason. I use SSH to do UNIX
TCP/IP network programming work for people, and my SSH sessions would
be terminated without warning.
In one day, 42 sessions were terminated, causing me to loose alot of
work. Again, they claimed it was me.
As I was armed with traceroutes and pings showing absolutely horrible
timeouts and latency in the middle of
their network (things were fine for several hops outside my network
and then got into the 3000 ms. range for
extended periods...9-20 ms. is normal, but over 1000 is too slow to
even depend on...) they finally, after
logging over 7 Remedy tickets with their help desk, agreed that it
seemed to be their own problem. This led
to another problem whereby (and why it took 5 tickets in the first
place) a Tier 2 technical person would just
close the ticket since they had no idea of how to fix the problem.
Finally, a manager helped and got a FDDI
card on one router changed, which immediately fixed the problem. That
took 6 months and only just was
resolved last week.

Now, I had been told to lodge a complaint with some 'Advocacy' group.
I have now left 71 messages for
them over the 6 months and have yet to receive one call back. There
is no way to complain, no way to get
remuneration for the lost time, and I have recieved extremely poor
service from the technical people at XO.
Compounded with the billing department's inablility to deal with
customers (they have hung up on me 3 times
so far without provocation), I rate their services as follows:
1) Customer Service: F-
2) Connection reliability: D
3) Technical Support: F
4) Value for the money: F

I currently pay (I started DSL service 2.5 years ago) almost $400 a
month for a business DSL. I seem to
have no control over any part of the service, have no way to
complain, and have been told that I am to be
treated as a 'home' user, since they have no special classifications
for their customers. I have just
requisitioned a new DSL line and plan to leave XO quickly. I would
never suggest their services for a serious
business, as they cannot be reliable without channels for escalation.

Horrible service. I just want to make sure that others know of my
experience before they think XO is
anything to consider. To actually hang up on customers is
unexcusable.

Thanks.

Christopher Manders

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member for 22.9 years, 1 visits, last login: 22.9 years ago
lodged 22.9 years ago

mmlugar
join:2001-01-16
Los Angeles, CA

mmlugar

Member

SF maybe?

It must be the people in SF. I am here in LA, started up with XO back in December, and have had ver few technical issues. The install was super-smooth and completely on time. I have called tech support twice, gotten through both times within 10 seconds, and when the call was escalated to a Tier 2 tech, he called me back within 2 hours to resolve the issue.

It almost sounds like we're dealing with 2 different companies.
cmanders
join:2001-04-09
San Francisco, CA

cmanders

Member

Re SF maybe? Or, is it the upper mgmnt or billing?

Nice to hear something good about them.

> ]It must be the people in SF.

I doubt that. I think it is 'scope', and I am certain of the 3 main things I said. Verified from 6 months of trying, unfortunately. I actually think that my experiences corresponded with XO taking things over from Concentric. I really never had a single issue with Concentric. They were terrific!

> I am here in LA, started up with XO back in December, and have had ver few technical issues. The install was > super-smooth and completely on time. I have called tech support twice, gotten through both times within 10 > seconds, and when the call was escalated to a Tier 2 tech, he called me back within 2 hours to resolve the > issue.

I signed up 2.5 years ago and 32 days was 'standard' at that time for installation times. The install was fine, the sales people were Ok, and even when I have had *minor* problems their Tier 1 and 2 were completely responsive. In fact, I would think I should add that the general people were very good on rudimentary problems. I think the issue is how you use them. If it is a Business DSL (mine is) you will start to see signs when you run your own Internet services and rely on the connection. The connectivity, as I stated, was *fixed* in my case (which _is_ location specific) when I provided overwhelming proofs of a very detailed and technical nature. Traceroutes and pings with timestamps. Until I did that they even denied there was any issue at all (even though they seem to use SNMP on the routers...ironic, that...;)

Mainly, my problem is summarized as:
1) the billing department _did_ hang up on me three times without provocation. In fact, they were rude each and every time I have called. One time (one of the 3 calls they hung up on me) they told me that I need a new ISP....
2) there is NO escalation past Tier 2 and, basically, no way to complain. I think that is everywhere, as I have had to call the 'Advocacy' department on the East Coast (it is a 512 number, not even an 800 number) and they are not calling back. Period.

I think if you run into a really hard problem, like in my case it was 'routing' or 'reverse DNS delegation', that this is where they start to suck.

All I wanted was someone to lodge a complaint with. To improve their process was my first attempt, as I hate moving ISPs for my business. It is alot of work. And usually causes alot of disruption. So, I always give people and companies more than 1 or 2 chances. Actually, I play like batting. 3 strikes and you are out. In this case they even got one 'ball', plus the three strikes, which is why I am complaining on a website and not to them directly. There is just no way to complain to them directly. And, since there is little chance of being heard or re-imbursed, I can get cheaper DSL these days anyway elsewhere...

> It almost sounds like we're dealing with 2 different companies.

Actually, I think it sounds about right. As a regular user, I might not have noticed anything (not assuming your DSL is *business*-class as you did not state that [it is more expensive, after all]). It was after my circuit was unreliable and I wanted to complain that my problems started. For 6 months service was very, very poor (which, again, is as you say, location-specific), but it was I that provided enough details (in over 20 emails and over many months of different technicians) and proofs that something was changed on the router that fixed my problems.

I still wanted some refund (hey, at $400 per month and several months without service who wouldn't) and that is when I really got rude service. They hung up on me three times without me doing anything myself rude at all. Actually, it is a fact that there _is_ no channel for complaints at all (though they claim this 'Advcacy' group will, but you have to get a call back before that is happening). I left 70+ messages for their complaint department over the last 6 months, and not even one phone call back? What is up with that?

You might like the service, but I think the upper management is pretty lame. As a business I would never hang up on my customers and I would also be more responsive, as I have, and had, some good feedback for improving their ability to deal with my type of situation. Anyway, I think it is what you rely on them for that differs in our experience with them. As a manager, I would also want to know my people are hanging up on my customers. So far, not even one phone call back, though, from the Advocacy group means they are either overwhelmed by complaints or they don't care to know.

Try DNS (both forwards and reverse), and/or have a billing problem. I think that is where you will find yourself feeling similar.

Meanwhile, I hope you enjoy your services and that they clean up before you run into the same. I would not recommend them to my own friends, though. I want to know that they actually care about their customers before I recommend anything. And, unfortunately, I have not felt that the upper management cared. Again, not the technical people, as they seemed ok, for the most part.

Cheers!
mmlugar
join:2001-01-16
Los Angeles, CA

mmlugar

Member

It must be the people in SF. I am here in LA, started up with XO back in December, and have had ver few technical issues. The install was super-smooth and completely on time. I have called tech support twice, gotten through both times within 10 seconds, and when the call was escalated to a Tier 2 tech, he called me back within 2 hours to resolve the issue.

It almost sounds like we're dealing with 2 different companies.

Fenral
join:2000-06-26
Owings Mills, MD

Fenral

Member

Re: SF maybe?

Well you sort of are dealing with 2 different companies, xo and whats left of concentric inside of xo. If you manage to get ahold of one of the holdovers from concentric you normaly won't have a problem. However when they became xo, they lost a lot of good talent and the remaining staff is just (CENSORED). I've had more or less the same problems he has had with them, sence they became xo, and I am in Maryland so it's not just the people in SF. I'm now in search of a better isp... or maybe a T1 instead of dsl!

Phoenix
JNanas1
join:2001-03-20
Brooklyn, NY

JNanas1

Member

I can't wait to see XO listed on FC. I really can't.

I can't tell you how utterly USELESS their people have been.

At least you managed to get to Level 2 - I get stuck with their Level 1 support people, who think that PING was an old video game.

Their backbone is seriously on it's way out - here in NYC - during peak periods (and some other times) - the connection just goes to HELL. The worst - they knew all about it, yet somehow managed to schedule THREE visits from Covad to check my line. All when they knew that it was an issue with all of NYC.

Stay FAR, FAR away from these folks. And I'd be suspicious of a few of the posts on this board - seems like the XO people are crawling on to make sure their terrible company doesn't reveal it's true ugly self.

XOhater
@63.91.x.x

XOhater

Anon

Someone broke into one of the machines that I ran off my DSL service and installed a warez server, which I did not know about. XO communications received reports from someone that this server was running and disconnected my service -without- notifying me. They just pulled the plug.

When I called customer service, It was only after a half hour of waiting did I find out why I had been disconnected, and after calling them about 30 times, did I get a number for their abuse department.

They directed me to network abuse, who directed me to customer service! Their 'network abuse' department would not return my phone calls (two months of trying) and customer support knew nothing about what had happened to my account.

After wondering if they were going to come after my business for activities on my network or not, I called in a disconnect order that was finally processed 4 months later (although, I was not charged for any services after the disconnect)

Worst of all, I was business customer! They cost me a serious amount of money because they dropped my entire circuit; all 8 of my static IP's!

JubalHarshaw
@subnet-138.med.umich

JubalHarshaw

Anon

Re: Avoid XO at all costs.

I agree there is no excuse for the way you've been treated by XO ... but in regards to the "warez server" I would recommend securing your systems a little bit better ... anytime you are on a public IP address you are at risk ...

Review by Jake3590 See Profile

  • Location: Longmont, Boulder, CO, USA
  • Cost: $69 per month (12 month contract)
  • Install: about 60 days
  • Telco party Qwest
  • CLEC party: NorthPoint
Service is at rated speed and reliable
extra 30 day delay due to Qwest delays in removing bridge taps/load coils
decent service, fastest I can get currently
Pre Sales information:
Install Co-ordination:
Connection reliability:
Tech Support:
Services:
Value for money:

I ordered iDSL 144/144 service on 10/10. Once (finally) Qwest installed the line and outside ISDN box, I received my modem (Copper Mountain CopperRocket 201iDSL), hooked it up myself, and was up and running almost instantly. XO was good about sending email updates etc., However their estimated dates were always wrong, the stuff was actually installed before they said it would be. Works good, 4 ips is nice, and the redirect of my web address from Network Solutions occurred almost instantly. I would like more speed for the money, but at around 17,500 ft. from the CO, I guess this is all I can get for now. AT&T is upgrading the cable system as we speak, and Adesta communications is installing a fiber-to-the-curb system (estimated time to completion-3 years), so I may have some other options soon. On-line admin options for email accounts etc. work flawlessly. Pretty happy, other than I need more speed/lower ping for online gaming.

PostNP Postmortem:

1st they lied about reprovisioning my line with Covad, then, as a home Office user, they're just cutting me loose. No options. They don't offer "upgraded" service at my locaton, and 56K dialup is my "downgrade" option. I may keep them for web-hosting, but I'm pretty irritated at my post-NorthPoint treatment. Poor communication, no options, no help.

member for 23.2 years, 82 visits, last login: 12.9 years ago
updated 22.9 years ago

System

Anon

17kf faster speed?

Sorry buddy, but being 17kf out from the CO, it's going to be pretty difficult to get any thing faster than IDSL..... 192kbps and 384kbps max distance is 15kf....sometimes over depending on loop quality... question, is your line straight copper, or on electronics? aka repeaters?

Review by cyberus See Profile

  • Location: Holland, Ottawa, MI, USA
  • Cost: $89 per month (12 month contract)
  • Install: about 75 days
  • Telco party Ameritech
  • CLEC party: Covad
Tech was on time for install(s), no bull info from him.
BS from tech support as to why speed rarely exceeds 50% of 1500/384 bought.
Not sure they were ready to support the SOHO they were selling me.
Pre Sales information:
Install Co-ordination:
Connection reliability:
Tech Support:
Services:
Value for money:

Ordered the 728/128, discontinued before install so got the 1500/384, actually getting the 728/128 speed most of the time.

4ip# static, 5 mailboxes and web space @ $89 month. Efficient 5260 bridge.

Ordering was easy, install was ok, still trying to get the speed I'm paying for.

A little worried since the discontinued the SOHO package I have that I'm going to get dumped if I make too big of pain of myself.

member for 23 years, 165 visits, last login: 22.5 years ago
lodged 23 years ago


JubalHarshaw
@subnet-138.med.umich

JubalHarshaw

Anon

ADSL

Unfortunately for you ADSL is a "best effort service." ... as a previous Concentric employee (I left right after they became XO) I know that you are only guaranteed 128/64 by their contract. ADSL speed rates can vary due to many factor, line quality, distance from the CO, bad luck, bad weather, bad equipment ...