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Review by docbill 
member for 6.4 years, 134 visits, last login: a few hours ago
updated a few hours ago
 Stoney Creek,ON
 $65 per month- (24 month contract)
 about 5 days Bell Canada "Very fast upload rate, all inclusive package" "will be too expensive at the end of the promotion" "would not recommend"
| Pre Sales information:
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It is now 2012 and I am back with Bell again. A door to door salesman sold me on a triple play package free for 6 months. It is however a 2 year contract, which will cost me $300 to disconnect early, and there is a $30 activation fee. I don't really need the satellite TV or the bell phone line, so I am listing the rate at $330/6 for the six months.
First the good:
The install service was excellent. The Bell tech showed up on time, and rewired my phone line. I hadn't used the line in years, when I had cancelled the regular phone line one of the reasons was phone picked-up radio signals and the DSL was dog slow. However, with the new Fibe connection I am getting the advertised 25/7 without the same speed both to Bell's test sight, and my favourite speed test site in the US. The Bell router has wireless N, two USB ports, and four LAN ports. Overall it seems like fairly solid hardware.
Now the not so good:
The technician could only connect the router within three feet of the phone jack. So I had to run my own 100 ft cable to get the connection to my computer. The wireless service seems fair, but not as good as my Asus RT-16N.
Now the bad:
I had to see comments in this forum to learn how not to have a double NAT. Bell seems to cycle my IP address very regularly. That breaks my IPV6 tunnel and causes my VPN tunnels to drop. I have to regularly update sites like salesforce.com which use IP security with my IP address. This also seems to mess-up Bell's bandwidth counter. I have a bandwidth tracker on my modem, so I know exactly how much I use. One one day when they toggled my IP address they list me as uploading 3.2GB and downloading 3.0GB. But my bandwidth counter shows it was really 0.5GB and 0.2GB. I NEVER have a higher upload than download usage. The Bell technician seems to think that meant someone hacked into the Bell wireless router. That is unlikely, as I am the only one in the neighbourhood with the knowledge needed to break SPA security. However, I have switched of the Bell wireless and I will wait to see if that happens again.
Unless I find ways to mitigate the bad, I will probably switch to TekSavvy or back to Cogeco Cable at the end of the six months.
Update: According to the sales brochure I was suppose to get a 125 GB capacity, but I only got 100 GB. I did not feel like arguing so I paid $10 for 80 GB of bandwidth insurance bring me up to 180 GB. At first glance that seems like slightly more than I had with Cogeco, but I have found the Bell bandwidth counter is more inaccurate than Cogeco. So I expect I really will get about 170 GB.
Update: 2012-02-29 Worst day ever. I went to the bathroom and when I returned my work VOIP line lost connection to the conference call I was on. I then tried my personal VOIP line, and that failed as well. I then tried the Bell Canada line. I tend to avoid using that because it is so full of static. But anyway, I got back into my conference and then my internet connection kept dropping for the rest of the meeting. Finally this evening I went to inspect why my line was so full of static. I had previously called Bell for that, but they told me there would be a service charge even though the problem existed since install which was less than 30 days ago at the time I called. Consequently, I decided to find the problem myself. It turns out that the bell technician who wired up the internet and put in the VDSL splitter, had wired the outlet so both the phone line jack and the internet jack were both wired together, and the actual voice line was wired to screws not connected to anything. Whenever I would use the phone, I would get flooded with static, and eventually the DSL modem would drop the connection. Now that I corrected it, the phone is crystal clear. All I can say, is I don't really blame Bell for the mistake, but they should stand by there services. If they do an install and it doesn't work, they should correct the problem they created.
ORIGINAL REVIEW:
In 2002 I signed up for Bell Sympatico DSL service. They sent me a Speedstream 5360 and installation instructions. The network connection worked well, and I paid the advertised price. About a year later, they introduced bandwidth caps. After being presented several large bills, I suspended my Sympatico service and switched to Cogeco. I stuck with Cogeco for about six months, then Sympatico dropped the bandwidth caps and I switched back. When switching back I learned that Sympatico had unsuspended early and been charging my credit card. In the end they offered a few months of discounts. I still probably overpaid some, but it wasn't worth arguing because Cogeco and Sympatico were my only broadband options.
Several times in the last few years, Sympatico has notify me my DSL speed was being increased. However, it was 2400 kbps in 2002, and it is still 2400 kbps today. At least Sympatico remained a reliable connection.
However, about 6 months ago that started changing. Every few hours my VOIP phone would beep, indicating the DSL had recycled to a new IP address. I contacted Bell, but they refused to support me unless the modem was plugged directly into my computer. Unfortunately, I do not know how to configure Windows for PPPoE, and I have lost their directions years ago. When I asked them how to connect my computer to the modem, they could not help me. So I just lived with the problem.
Over the months, the problem got worse. Finally, by mid-October the line was recycling every 15 minutes. Since I was convinced the problem had to be either the line or the Speedstream, I decided to search my basement to see if I could find one of the DSL modems I used in Seattle. When I had inquired about using my own modem in 2002, the Sympatico tech had told me no other modem would work with Sympatico. However, after reading discussions on the internet I found that was a lie. In my basement, I found the Speedstream 5260 that had been sold to me by Speakeasy. I unplugged the the 5360 and plugged in the 5260 and found my disconnect problem was solved!
After that, I decided I have to find some other broadband service. I suspended my Sympatico account for six months and I will cancel at the end of that time if I am still happy with my new ISP.
2012-07-27: One week ago I got up in the morning and found my internet was down, and the DSL modem was not getting a signal. After waiting an hour, I called Bell on my cell phone. 47 days prior I had put in a cancel order for my phone line in 30 days and at the same time negotiated a new rate for my internet. It turns out they forgot to note on the cancel order I needed to be put on a dry loop. Bell said they had to send a technician out, so they couldn't come until Monday. Monday morning came along, and bright and early my internet was up. Two hours later a technician showed up, equally confused as to why Bell sent him out to my house, when they just needed to make the change at the office. Bell also made a $165 error in my bill this month, but after talking to them I got an instant credit for part of it. The other part is the termination internet termination fee, which of course I should not have to pay unless I terminate it... So for that they gave me a monthly credit that will balance out should I carry it the full term of the original contract. I'm still keeping Bell, but one more mistake like this and I cancel, no matter what. I already have a second internet connection. I would prefer to keep both, for enhanced reliability, but it isn't worth dealing with repeated mistakes.
2013-04-02 I've dropped Bell and I'm now with Velcom.
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Review by mand
member for 1.6 years, 69 visits, last login: 2 days ago
updated 2 days ago
- Montreal,QC
- $50 per month
- about 7 days
- "Very stable, fast, good services"
- "Price increases regularly"
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2010
I ordered Bell Fibe 10 plan.
Read carefully and be prepared to click few times to get the real price for only one service on Bell's website. That's a bad point.
The plan includes a modem/router/4 port switch that allows wifi B/G and 75 Gb of bandwidth usage that are more than enough for my usage at this time.
I'm happy with the very stable download speed which is 10.5 Mbits (advertised 10 Mbits) but I'm a bit disapointed with the stable upload speed of 0.7 Mbps (1 Mbits advertised). Condition for the speedtests: my everyday network configuration.
I don't like their mail service which is a customized Microsoft Hotmail account. The service isn't bad but I use a mail client to access mail boxes and mail that is spam doesn't show up. It is important to sometimes connect to the webmail to check for false positive spams.
Hotmail doesn't provide IMAP.
2011
Only one time 2 hours of service lost I'm aware of since I'm with bell. Don't now exactly what happened but I restarted the modem and all goes well again. Maybe I could restart the modem earlier to get the Internet back.
The Fibe 10 plan had a total price increase of 3$ this year. That's bad news.
2012
Starting the year there's a new bonus for Bell : 2$ more on the bill for the monthly internet service. This time I called them.
I have now 115 GB bandwidth.
Another bonus for Bell this spring: money savings for each bundled services dropped from 5$ to 4$.
I'm more and more interested to host my little website myself but Bell doesn't allow customers to run servers and they don't provide fixed IPs for residential plans.
I switched to another phone service. Internet download speed fall to 2.3 Mbits one month later. Had to call Bell a friday afternoon for the dry loop. All goes well again monday evening.
Had an issue with lost of service starting end of november. Had to call Bell 3 ou 4 times in 3 weeks and repeat things again. Finally a tech shows up without appointement. The problem was outside.
2013
Price increase on march bill: 3$.
End of march download speed upgraded from 10 to 12 Mbits.
Still good to very good service with Bell Internet.
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Review by toro
member for 7.2 years, 2401 visits, last login: a few hours ago
updated 27 days ago
- North York,ON
- $57 per month
- about 3 days
- Bell Canada
- "Great speeds, installation was great"
- "Cost is a bit high"
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I'm on Bell Fibe 25/10 and I've only had the service for about 2 weeks. I ordered it using a Dell Grab and Go voucher which gives the first 3 months of service and free installation.
I asked for an evening appointment (after 5 pm) and there was no problem. The tech who came to do the install was great, very professional (unlike other Bell techs I dealt with in the past), he called in advance to let me know he was on the way and came on time. He had 2 hours allocated for it but finished everything in about an hour (he had to change the demarc box because I had an old rusty one).
The service is good so far and I am happy. I am not a heavy downloader, so I think the bandwidth allowance will be fine. I just wanted a higher upload speed than what's available on the ADSL tiers and cable. The only other option was Teksavvy (which has been my ISP for several years before switching) but because of the dry loop fee and mandatory modem rental fee imposed on the Fibe package, it would have costed me about $20 more per month.
Update, 3 months after the installation:
My 3 months of free service are up and I made some changes to my account, namely switched to a plan a bit cheaper, the 15/10 (same great upload speed which is the most important for me at this time).
Unfortunately I can't say the change went through without any problems but all were fixed in the end.
The first problem was a technical one, they set me up with a profile with 8 Mbps upload so since my line could do better before the change, I called and asked to be tweaked. Initially I was told that's the best the line could do, then when I pushed a little bit they escalated it to the second level who said I would receive a call within 24-48 hours. The tech called me about 7-8 hours later and was totally unprepared, he said initially I was on the Fibe 6 package, I told him "that's not true", he said "call our customer service". Then a few minutes later he called again, said I'm on Fibe 15 and he will change my upload speed to 1 Mbps, because there's no such thing as 10 Mbps. I told him to stop, don't make any change and double check, he went and did it anyways and changed my profile from a VDSL to an ADSL one.
I opened another ticket and about 14 hours later my speed was fixed and works great.
The second issue was with billing, they tried to charge me starting 3 months from the day the service was ordered rather than the day it was installed. I opened another ticket (over their chat) and this got fixed as well.
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Review by SPulcini
member for 10.6 years, 97 visits, last login: 25 days ago
updated 31 days ago
- undisclosed location
- Contract price not specified.
- Bell Canada
- "Excellent reliability, good latency, speeds as advertised"
- "Expensive without discounts, non-Canadian technical support"
- "Connection is extremely reliable, tech support is shamefully poor"
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This site doesn't seem to recognise the fact that the Sympatico brand is no longer used, so it seems that this review belongs here.
I have been using Bell's Internet services, under one name or another, for about 13 years. For context, this started when they first deployed the Nortel 1 Meg Modem platform in my area.
Except for performance and reliability problems when the service was first installed (which were caused by our old inside wiring), connection reliability has been outstanding, and speeds received have generally been as advertised. In all the time we have been using the services, I think we have had a few days of total down-time, including the old scheduled maintenance times they used to announce.
Early on, tech support seemed to be offered from call centres within Canada, and was actually respectable; not great, but courteous and tolerable. Since it was out-sourced, it has been useless at best. The only consolation is that the direct support forum is available on this site, and they have generally been quite efficient at addressing my concerns to date.
Up until about November 2012, we were using the Fibe 10/7 service, on their VDSL2 FTTN platform, via the provided CellPipe 7130. Around that time, we received a message that the service would be upgraded to 12 mbps downstream at no charge, and our upload speed would remain the same. A few weeks later, the notification of a $3/month increase was received via e-mail, claiming that it was due to extensive network upgrades.
The reliability of the connection continues to be outstanding, and all speed test results generally show results of at least 12/7 (sometimes *slightly* lower), and latency to nearby sites is usually between 4 and 8 ms.
The problem I am having is not with the service itself, but the pricing. The discount we had been offered expired recently, so we are now paying $15 more per month, in addition to the $3/month increase. Also, they are still charging the old "Upload Speed Upgrade" fee, bringing the monthly pre-tax, total to $62.95 (minus $4 bundle discount). This ends up costing more than we would be paying if they had simply moved us to the newer 15/10 package.
On another pricing-related note, I should add that, at $2.50/GB, their overage rates border on robbery. Combined with their comparatively low monthly transfer allowances and $30/month "unlimited data" add-on ($10/month with three or more bundled services), you either have to have modest transfer requirements, or should probably consider looking elsewhere, if you trust the independents.
I have raised the 12/7 versus 15/10 pricing issue on the direct forum, so we'll see if anything comes of it. I could always consider one of the other DSL providers, given that I already own two working ADSL2+ modems, and may even get a lower monthly bill and more appealing monthly transfer allowances, but I am hesitant, given my previous experiences with trying to change providers.
For those who are curious, I tried two other providers (neither of which exists any longer) some years ago, when Bell first tried usage-based billing. One never got me connected at all, while still trying to bill me. Despite the fact that Bell had done their job (SpeedTouch Home I had purchased had sync; old Nortel to be returned to Bell no longer worked, obviously), they never issued a PPPoE ID or password that worked. The other provider managed to get me connected, and seemed about as good as Bell, at first. Then the capacity and routing issues started. These were all at their end, as I still had sync at the appropriate rates, cell loss rates were reasonably low, and I could usually connect and (maybe) reach their mail/Web server, but not much, if anything, outside their office. With those experiences, I went back to Bell and have had very few problems, other than a bit of congestion around 2005/2006 or so.
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Review by maxboha
member for 331 days, 177 visits, last login: 3 days ago
updated 49 days ago
- Acton Vale,QC
- $70 per month
- about 700 days
- Bell Canada
- "Illimité enfin !"
- "Qualité de la ligne, prix, caps, vitesse"
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Slow Sync rates, habite dans un devellopement résidentiel neuf avec pas de FTTN.
Attachments:
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 | | La faute du gouvernment et du CRTC... Le gouvernement federal devrait exiger que les FDSI offrent automatiquement soit du FTTN soit du FTTH a tous les nouveaux developments.. Peut-etre un Quebec souveraint offrait un meilleur systeme de reglementation, mais faudra retourner presque toute l'infrastructure hydroelectrique aux Autotochtones si le Quebce se separe du Canada. Donc appuies-toi au NPD ou au Parti Pirate pour assurer que les consommateurs canadiens soient traite honnetement.
(Je m'excuse pour les erreurs d'orthographes ou de grammair. Le francais n'est pas ma langue maternelle.) | |
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Review by beoneradio
member for 55 days, 0 visits, last login: 55 days ago
lodged 55 days ago
- Laval,QC
- $56 per month
- (6 month contract)
- Bell Canada
- "bad service"
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they sold me a plan for 6 months 56$ after with out notice my plan change to 79$ told them is too expensive they advice me that i would keep same plan .
Now I received a bill of 177$ for this month really how can that be if I was on vacations.
well they don't care and all they try to do is to sale me more bandwidth.
I am canceling with them .
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| | Stay away from BELL. They are the biggest crooks I just got out of a 3 year contract and i paid through my nose. Never ever trust what they say. You will pay for that big time and when you go back to their crappy customer service, they will simply say sorry but you still have to pay no matter what anyone promised you. | |
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Review by Furious1964
member for 1.6 years, 7 visits, last login: 45 days ago
updated 56 days ago
- Dorval,QC
- $143 per month
- (12 month contract)
- Bell Canada
- "Bandwidth is fast now that throttling is gone."
- "Tech support and reliability is non-existant."
- "NEVER, EVER deal with Bell."
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Never deal with Bell EVER.
Been a client for nearly 20 Years and I placed an order for a FibeTV/Internet/Cell bundle Saturday Feb. 2, 2013. Got a call from a rep on Tuesday about canceling my lan and confirming my order. For some strange reason, the rep canceled that order and I was left waiting like an idiot. Was on the phone for 3 days with 8 different reps trying to get everything settled, but it all snowballed and I ended up canceling everything and trying to go with someone else. I couldn't because of a bankruptcy I had to declare 3 years ago because I lost my job and couldn't pay my bills. I have a good job now (for over 3 Years) but because of that, I can't get my services reconnected and I'm without telephone and soon will be without internet.
So I recommend that people go elsewhere for internet/phone/TV service and give Bell the cold shoulder.
Comments:
smallj53
join:2002-08-25
Niagara Falls, ON | Your speeds won't be any better with Acanac You have a physical problem with your line. Only Bell can fix that. | |
|  ns
@142.240.200.x | Bell internet customer service - The worst customer service that I have had. For last 7 days they could not restore my internet connection. Calling customer service will tell it will be done in next 24 hour/ 48 hour, I feel they don't know the meaning of hour. Bell customer service has some buch of jokers up to the supervisors. Right hand does not know what the left hand is doing. For last 6 days I have spoken to 28 representatives without any success to my issue. (This might be a record). | |
| | | 1.1mbps isn't even 12 meg speed at 12/1 synch You'd be better off dropping down to 12 meg which is supposed to be 1.4 megabits per second at a 14/1 synch rate. | |
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Review by crumbworks
member for 6.3 years, 35 visits, last login: 54 days ago
updated 57 days ago
- North York,ON
- $36 per month
- Bell Canada
- "Reliable - hardly any downtime"
- "Atrocious customer service - outsourced and often inept; Terrible caps and throttling"
- "Choose Bell only if you have no other choice -- which you probably do"
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Bell Canada is absolutely inept. The only way that the service is tolerable is if you never have to actually interact with them after the initial installation.
Their ineptitude can initially be summed up by one experience: at one point, the local node going into my building was down for a week or so. They sent out the wrong repair team twice for it -- the first technician only trained on home phone repair, the second for satellite service repair. Seriously, are you kidding me?!
If I had one positive, it is that the connection is reliable. I have had rather minimal downtime overall. That one week mentioned above is about the only extensive downtime I've had. Other than that, just a few blips of an hour or so every few months.
Calling them is a joke. You are virtually guaranteed to be frustrated by a whole multitude of things -- from long wait times to useless, scripted responses. I haven't reached someone locally in a very long time, and I wonder: how can someone in India know how to resolve issues for an ISP that doesn't even exist over there? (oh, and as per some policy, they have to tell you that they are in Canada when you ask. Idiocy...)
I've escalated calls before. I end up reaching another guy in India who is often times harder to understand than the first guy.... and the answers I have received from them are just as scripted and useless, and have never helped me one bit.
Their technical support is simply painful. They will never, ever admit that the problem is on their end. They simply tell you to reset your modem/router as if that is a universal resolution for any problem. Even when my old rental modem had smoke coming out of it, the person had the tenacity to ask me to power cycle it. Seriously.
Installing new service is as pleasant as being punched in the face. I helped my friend set up Sympatico last year. They don't even make any effort to help you. They forgot to ship out her modem and when it arrived, it took them weeks to fix some sort of glitch to get it to work. When she called them, their answer was to simply "wait a bit longer".
While I am on a grandfathered service with no bandwidth cap, there is still no excuse for having such ridiculously limitations as a whole. I can say with certainly that since I upgraded from dial-up in 1999, I have never had less than 60 GB total usage per month.
The worst part has to be the throttling. Basically, as I said, the service is tolerable as long as you don't have to interact with them because the connection is usually quite stable, but then Bell thought "let's find a way to screw people over even further" and decided on this massive throttling between 4pm and 2am every day. It is absolutely awful, especially since it affects resellers (like TekSavvy).
To be frank, I am only with Bell because my family has some sort of long-standing loyalty with them and they are too lazy to switch.
When I move elsewhere and leave my family with this grandfathered no-cap service, I am positive I will not go with Bell -- or Rogers even, due to both having a cap. I will certainly be considering TekSavvy due to the overwhelmingly positive reviews that I have read.
All in all, Bell is just a waste of time and money. Their service is worthless.
(Update, 05/2010)
After being with Bell Sympatico / Bell Internet for about 9 years, I have switched to TekSavvy. Bell's connection was reliable, but I switched for the reasons mentioned above. Since it uses existing Bell infrastructure, I get the same reliability without any of the headaches.
(Update 05/2012)
I didn't cancel the unlimited Bell Internet account. I left it to my parents at their place, since it is a nice grandfathered "perk". However, I underestimated the atrociousness of Bell once again: my parents never really review their bill in detail, but I did when I visited them recently. Bell has apparently been increasing the price of their grandfathered DSL plans once every few months in an effort to strong-arm long-time and loyal customers into switching to the capped tier packages.
How much has it risen to, you may ask?
...$71.95/month, plus $5 for the modem rental, for unlimited 6 Mbps.
What an absolutely unacceptable and abhorrently immoral business practice. In short: I could not let them continue to throw their money at Bell. They are in the process of switching away as well. I'm also doing the same with their landline, where Bell was gouging them as well.
(Update 02/2013)
My parents have been with TekSavvy now for nearly a year and are very satisfied. Absolutely no issues. While it took them a few months for the initial costs to even things out (set-up fees, cost of purchased gateway, etc.), they are now saving an incredible sum in the long run. Bell is dead to us.
Comments:
| |  Thanks for the feedback... really needed that
I work from home (sort of IT-Operations) and throttling is no fun for me.
Thanks for this review and I was almost all set to have them.
Regards. | |
| | | Bell can be good. I've just had a good deal with the bell loyalty department.
I got a 25Mbps download 125GB bandwith Cap for $50 a month.
It is limited for one year, but it's still a lot better than nothing.
Here's a hint on negotiations. Works with me every time.
When they charge you for stupid things, let them do it, but
do NOT use the service. Now let time go by and it flies.
After a while of paying for nothing, it's time for you to strike back.
Do NOT offend the teletobies. If you ever have to say something negative, say that you are very disappointed with Bell. And put a gentle, educated, and a soft tone and beguile them to pity you. And try to minimize your time in the billing/technical support people. It is really a waste of time. Get to the loyalty department and again, be nice. Everyone is defensive when offended. | |
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Review by Tristan
member for 6.5 years, 1154 visits, last login: a few hours ago
updated 60 days ago
- Ottawa,ON
- Contract price not specified.
- "You get access to the internet."
- "Slow access, low caps, high overages, bad service"
- "Teksavvy or Start Communications internet is better, avoid Bell Sympatico"
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2/6/2013
I highly recommend Start Communications for internet service. Going to ask my employer to switch to Start.
2/6/2013
Some of the problems we've had with Bell high-speed over the last 3 years are:
- internet service seems to go down periodically
- email server seems to go down periodically
- a bad Bell wire feed to our building caused our connection to fail. When we were connected to a different pair of wires, we lost half our speed. Took several calls to get it fixed. At one point, I was talking with a call centre employee that admitted she was in Jamaica, and she was most disrespectful. She didn't want to help, and rather cited that the speeds are "up-to", but really the problem was the card Bell connected us to was bad.
- older -
Not a big fan of Bell Sympatico.
Was forced to get DSL because zoning technicalities made it impossible to get Rogers - it's actually Rogers fault that we can't use Rogers, even though Rogers offers service to this building.
Stupid Rogers.
Don't sign up with Bell. Teksavvy is much better, higher customer satisfaction, they fight for their customer's rights. Long story short, Teksavvy cares, and wants your business.
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Review by virago83
member for 69 days, 1 visits, last login: 67 days ago
updated 67 days ago
- Osgoode,ON
- $53 per month
- about 5 days
- Bell Canada
- "Always works!"
- "Cost of service, shadey sales practices"
- "Costs more than it should but it works all the time"
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Will start by saying that I have been a Bell customer for many years. In more recent years was using Bell Sympatico's "Performance Plan" which basically gave me 25G of download per month and although I can't recall the download speed, was acceptable for my use. Then around Sept. 2011 while browsing Bell website I noted that the "performance" plan I was on, no longer existed and Bell was now pushing their various flavors of "Fibe". I contacted Bell and asked to be switched to the Fibe 15/10 Plan which now gives me 80G of download and faster speeds for about same price. A Bell Tech showed up within next few days and set up my new modem, no hassles. I'm getting close to the advertised download speeds which is double what I previously had so no complaints.
What burns me about Bell is that their services, whether its POTS, Internet or Television, is its too expensive. When I call to speak to representative, it's impossible to get anyone who speaks real "Canadian" English. You have to keep on top of your monthly bills because Bell will screw you every which way they can. I've been thinking seriously about switching to another company for phone/internet, ex. Distributel, Techsavvy, etc. to save money but I read as many negative reviews as positive ones. This worries me to no end because as much as I hate Bell's monopoly and costs, I do have to say that their services do work as advertised! My television service is always there, my phone line has NEVER encountered problems and my internet has never crashed or slowed to an unacceptable level. Guess its the old saying: "You get what you pay for"
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Re: email
