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Comments on news posted 2009-01-08 17:56:32: We recently noted how the RIAA has created an entirely new organization tasked with pushing the idea of collective music licensing, applying a $5-$10 "piracy tax" to consumer broadband bills, regardless of whether you pirate or not. ..
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 voipdabbler
join:2006-04-27
Kalispell, MT
| Adding too many "taxes" will kill off ISPs & broadband. LOL, the whole house of cards will come crashing down. Too many handouts, disguised as content or piracy taxes, will only serve to kill off ISPs and broadband. Economists aren't painting any rosy pictures about how long the recession will last. As more and more consumers either lose jobs or lose confidence that they'll be able to keep their jobs, they'll tighten their discretionary spending. If OPEC and commodity markets try to run up prices, the inflationary upward spiral will only compound the loss of discretionary spending, deepening and lengthening the recession. Broadband is still not an essential like shelter, food, heat and fuel so people will drop it when their budgets are taxed (or their confidence about their ability to keep their jobs is severely shaken). The real interesting thing to see in 2015 is how many ISPs are left--I suspect many here today will be gone by then. We can only hope that many of the moochers that are lining up for our money go belly up by then, too. | |
| | nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
 ·ViaTalk
 ·Comcast
| Re: Adding too many "taxes" will kill off ISPs & broadband. said by voipdabbler  :Broadband is still not an essential like shelter, food, heat and fuel so people will drop it when their budgets are taxed (or their confidence about their ability to keep their jobs is severely shaken). I don't know about that. Maybe I'm too much of a geek, but IMO broadband is an essential. I'd rather eat less than give up broadband.
I don't think the economy is going to get much worse, either. As they say "it's always darkest before dawn". 
--
Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation | |
| | | voipdabbler
join:2006-04-27
Kalispell, MT
| Re: Adding too many "taxes" will kill off ISPs & broadband. said by nitzan :said by voipdabbler :Broadband is still not an essential like shelter, food, heat and fuel so people will drop it when their budgets are taxed (or their confidence about their ability to keep their jobs is severely shaken). I don't know about that. Maybe I'm too much of a geek, but IMO broadband is an essential. I'd rather eat less than give up broadband. I don't think the economy is going to get much worse, either. As they say "it's always darkest before dawn". nitzan,
I wish you were right about the economy, but the most recent economic data, including job numbers, is confirming the worst case scenarios given by a growing number of economists--that the worst is yet to come and 2009 will be worse than 2008.
Given your industry, I can see why you think broadband is essential. Unfortunately for your industry and those dependent on broadband access, the needs of daily life take precedent and broadband just won't be able to rank with shelter, food, heating, energy and transportation. Those are must haves for people to survive. They can dump broadband and always go to the public library to surf if they must.
The most recent unemployment figures will only serve as added shock to those who haven't lost their jobs. There's an interesting article in today's Washington Post about the psychological toll of job losses on those who remain behind at the work place. Expect people to become even more frugal with their money because they're uncertain about how long they may be able to retain their own jobs. | |
| | | | nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
| Re: Adding too many "taxes" will kill off ISPs & broadband. said by voipdabbler :Given your industry, I can see why you think broadband is essential. Unfortunately for your industry and those dependent on broadband access, the needs of daily life take precedent and broadband just won't be able to rank with shelter, food, heating, energy and transportation. Those are must haves for people to survive. They can dump broadband and always go to the public library to surf if they must. To be fair, my industry basically enables people to ditch high-priced phone plans for cheap ones, so if anything the bad economy is a boost to business. Phone is most definitely an essential. 
There's an interesting article in today's Washington Post about the psychological toll of job losses on those who remain behind at the work place. Expect people to become even more frugal with their money because they're uncertain about how long they may be able to retain their own jobs. Economy is 100% psychology. People get worried about the future so stop spending. People stop spending so businesses get no revenue and forced to fire people. People see layoffs and get scared and stop spending. It's all in your mind, so to speak.
Economy fluctuations are just that - this year sucks, next year will be better. Sure, we may have some more rough time in 2009, but I don't see us getting into a multi-year recession. In my opinion we've bottomed out. Now's the time to buy stocks.
Don't get me wrong, industries like auto and housing are going to suck for years to come - but those industries are not the US economy - they're just a small fraction of the economy and it is IT and related industries that will lead the way to the next boom. It's just a matter of time.
--
Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation | |
| SanJoseNerd
Premium
join:2002-07-24
San Jose, CA
1 edit | Horrible Idea If the public won't pay a high enough price for your product so that you can make a profit, that means the public doesn't really want your product. In that case, you have to either:
(a) Improve your product so people are willing to pay more for it, or
(b) Become more efficient so you can be profitable at a lower price point, or
(c) Go out of business and make way for another company to produce a new product that people really want.
These sorts of subsidies just perpetuate products that the public doesn't really want. Even worse, the subsidies consume resources that would otherwise be available for the creation of new products that the public does want. | |
| pshibb
join:2008-11-07 | Does this mean I can ask for an unemployment tax for myself? I can come up with a reason why I career was cut short by the internet. | |
| 
Dryvlyne
Far Beyond Driven
Premium
join:2004-08-30
Newark, OH
| Will we let anything fail? Our country is nothing but a hypocritical joke! We say we believe in capitalism, but we're to afraid to let certain industries fail (i.e. banks, auto companies, etc) if they can't pull their own weight. I'm sure the Internet is going to become the last hope of many industries who feel the American people should subsidize their existence forever. I suppose I should start preparing myself for a future without the Internet because I'll be damned if I'm going to let every industry in this country shaft me via my ISP!
--
In relative terms life is shorter than the blink of an eye. Remember that each and every day because in the end it's not about what you've done but how you've lived.
| |
| megarock
join:2001-06-28
Saint Louis, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| I know what needs to fail... TAXES.
Start by wiping out every government office. Wipe out every monopoly. Wipe out every thing where no competition exists. Kill it all off.
Then start over.
Think of it this way - why do we have a Department of Homeland Security when we have the Defense Department. Isn't protecting the homeland the job of the Defense Department.
Why do we have the Food and Drug Administration but also have the Drug Enforcement Agency and the United States Department of Agriculture. Eliminating the massive bloat of the government itself and all the useless bodies and salaries will in itself lower ever persons taxes so much that any new taxes won't even be noticed.
Then in any case where a corporate entity believes it has the right to have any type of tax for any reason should also not be the only entity of it's type. No more having the RIAA be the only representative of the recording industry. Put competition up against the RIAA and see how long they last. There are only three major labels left - give them the old Ma Bell treatment and make them break up if they want taxpayer money.
Same goes for ISP's who are always trying to put their hands in the till. Ok, fine - here's your taxpayer bailout. But you now have a competitor who will be offered access to the same clients and areas you do.
In short if these people want my money I want competition. I want them to fight for their mere existence and if they can't they need to be gone. I for one have become sick of bailing out every flippin company who has been getting rich for years and finally, when they have one or two bad years, need taxpayer money to survive.
Don't survive - die off and let someone more competent replace you. | |
| | 
Maynard G Krebs
@teksavvy.com
| Re: I know what needs to fail... said by megarock :Think of it this way - why do we have a Department of Homeland Security when we have the Defense Department. Isn't protecting the homeland the job of the Defense Department. Why do we have the Food and Drug Administration but also have the Drug Enforcement Agency and the United States Department of Agriculture. Not to digress, but back until the 1940's it was called the War Department - which is a far more appropriate name even today. 'Defense' is more 'peaceful' sounding than 'War', yet in the years it was called the War Department it was actually much more peaceful and less aggressive.
Despite the peaceful 'defense' moniker, the US has been engaged in an endless series of conflicts since the end of WWII, many of its own making.
As to the DEA, isn't it time to replace the 'war' on drugs with sane policies?
One wonders. | |
| zod5000
join:2003-10-21
Edmonton, AB
 ·TELUS
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| This is so bad? Why should we prop up someone else business? If they'res not enough demand for multiple newspapers in the cities, maybe they'll have to widdle down to one?
Why should we pay for something we don't use?
Piracy tax is one thing... My gut instinct would tell me more people pirate, then would want to read the daily paper.
I very much against this. Most of the stuff in the newspaper is old hat by the time it gets pressed. Internet is about free dissemination of information. You don't see yahoo or google charging me for reading the news on their websites. | |
| johnfc
join:2002-11-23
Gaithersburg, MD | No Way They can shove this tax you know where.....
It is OK for a mismanaged company to tank. Darwin would say "survival of the fittest baby" | |
| 
shimonmor
join:2000-12-30
Sedro Woolley, WA | Who is John Gault? This whole scenario sounds vaguely familiar. Where is John Gault when you need him? | |
| | ross
join:2000-08-16 | Re: Who is John Gault? That must be John Galt's French cousin... | |
| 
pog
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom
| opt out... Any business that wants a piece of this tax should be put in a special IP block. Then, consumers that want to opt out of the tax can be blocked access to those IPs. A win-win!
From the other angle, any consumer that pays a tax benefiting a certain industry should, by all rights, have full access to all that industries content. Pay an RIAA tax? Then get all the music you want at no extra charge... legitimately, without fear of the law.
--
My Site | |
| | nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
| Re: opt out... said by pog :From the other angle, any consumer that pays a tax benefiting a certain industry should, by all rights, have full access to all that industries content. Pay an RIAA tax? Then get all the music you want at no extra charge... legitimately, without fear of the law. Lol. No worries, if the RIAA ever passes this crap, they're going to tax you because everyone obviously pirates Britney Spears CDs. Society should pay for this, because it's not fair for Britney to live in a $50mil house instead of a $60mil house, and it's most certainly not fair for the record label executives to own 2 yachts and a plane when they clearly should own 3 yachts and 3 planes.
And then they're going to sue you because, hey, you're pirating. It's illegal, right? oh, that tax? no it doesn't apply to THIS album.
What? want to actually buy the CD? it has pretty pictures in it! we'll give it to you for a bargain at $20! what do you mean expensive?! what, are you one of those PIRATES?!?
RIAA, MAFIAA, Newpapers, USF, and pretty much ANYONE that wants to levy more taxes on me - you know where to shove it, and you know where to go. Can't operate at a profit? then don't operate.
And don't get me started on bailouts... the government is basically giving away OUR taxpayer money. If a company who's been around for 100 years cannot operate at a profit then clearly there's a lot more going on behind the scenes than a bad economy. More like bad management and stealing from the share holders.
--
Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation | |
| | | 
GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Re: opt out... Several great comments in this thread Nitzan.
Several folks have said before, if you're going to levy a tax on me for pirating music then a case could be made that I am actually entitled to download at will.
I've long said when they hold the Grammy's at the LA VFW hall then they can tell me they're out of money. When they show up at the red carpet in a Yugo, wearing dresses from WalMart...then we'll talk.
On the topic at hand with newspapers, we used to subscribe but all it did was sit on the floor under the cat's litter box. It was a cost I didn't need to pay. Besides, if I really want a paper - mostly for ad circulars, I'll buy one at Starbucks or whatever. | |
| NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Buggy whips, anyone? It's a good thing we didn't have the Internet around when cars took off. Imagine the buggy whip industry demanding a tax on automobiles, just to keep them afloat!
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
| TheMG
join:2007-09-04
Edmonton, AB | Isn't the decline of newspapers to be expected though? The internet wins as far as convenience and effectiveness in getting your regular morning news.
The newspaper I find is just crammed with ads and lots of stuff I don't care about to have to flip through. Hardly convenient. | |
|
hANOVER fIST
@columbia.edu
|  Maybe they should think about TELLING THE TRUTH
Their poor sales have EVERYTHING to do with our "watchdogs" becoming stenographers for the scumbags occupying our government.
For example:
The retail stores are decrying "low sales" this holiday season...but can they not make a correlation between job losses and people making more prudent decisions with their remaining monies? There seems to be a disconnect here, but let's go to a more cogent example.
Georgia attacks Russia...yet, our news organizations report EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE - and are caught when interviewing a 12-year old girl rescued by the Russian troops.
Here's another:
Israel was engaged in a cease-fire with HAMAS. The truce was broken by Israel, yet all that has been report in the "mainstream" media is that HAMAS broke the cease-fire!
This is just ridiculous.
Is there any reason to support a business that DOES NOT HAVE YOUR BEST INTEREST AT HEART?
I believe the PEOPLE have spoken. | |
|
al_23
@verizon.net
| ISP Tax All the newspapers have to do, is stop putting their news on line.
I'd do know for sure, that I can hardly afford my ISP payments as it is. The internet is really for the rich, while I'm getting poorer all the time. The day the ISP cos. start charging such a tax, is the day, I will close my account. I'd cry, but that is the bottom line. I'd close my account, at the same time, telling the ISP co. why! | |
| apollo80
join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA
| In reference to the "piracy tax"... um...ok. I don't pirate music, movies, etc. off the internet.
But with such a 'piracy tax', now I will. (no, not really)
Hey, otherwise would be taxation without representation, wouldn't it? :> (I know taxation without representation was meant specificly for something else, but you get the point).
Such a tax would seem to make it sound LEGAL to download illegal files.
I can see it now...someone faces a lawsuit from the xxAA for downloading something illegal, and uses as a counterdefence that, upon reading they were being charged a piracy tax, assumed that pirating was legal. Kind of like NOT knowing a cup of coffee at McDonalds was hot, burning yourself with it, sueing, and making it known to others now that coffee is HOT... | |
| chronoss2009
join:2008-09-23
·TekSavvy Solutions..
2 edits | reason they really are failing comes form 1st reply Like he said everyone is realizing now that Hollywood and its corporate buddies are ONLY using the media papers to spill out there propaganda and lies and misleading crap.
The facts are quite easy to see, Stephen Harper going to CTV to release news ( aka globe media and just look at bottom of ctv.ca website to see whose in control...)
It is a symptom of the greed to control everything and as fascism dictate you must control the media , and have allies in corporations, when that is achieved you can do anything you like even in a so called democracy , as you can simply bribe off the politicians.
Some of the most recent Obama appointments are now showing Joe biden and friends influence. Same old Same old , only now the hollywood people that sued YOU all are second in command. God help you all should anything happen to Obama and Biden takes over. It would be a complete screwing of your economy and you might as well take your clothes off and hand them back there owners your knew slave masters ...hollywood
Also not even this place is immune to it, and watch how political stuff gets them neo cons all a rolling.
January 27th isn't far away and then its OUT the door with hollywood in canada. Don't hit your butts on the way out neither.
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Also i have said it like hte guy above if you dont pirate why do you need highspeed, ( are you lying to us and just aying that? so you can secretly encrypt stuff and get things anyhow?) or using a way that shirks the throttling)
If you do just email, visit a few websites and get a linux cdr now and then ( after all they don't update linux that you have to download a WHOLE cdr every few minutes)
you don't need high speed we can then throttle you and you should not whine. in fact you could end up paying less then as you are going to be exempted, if you get caught however doing shit then you get one of them 20000$ anti circumvention fines as you have in effect circumvented a lock meant to keep you form an action ( aha didn't think that bill c61 just mean file locks and digital locks did ya )
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ALSO to the guy above
it is not illegal to infringe copyright
it becomes a civil matter that is dealt with accordingly, as I pay the cdr levy and have a set sitting here, i am paying for the right to download and place what i wish onto those cdrs. thus what exactly am i doing that's illegal?
EXACTLY. this way you directly go at people using cdrs and if you apply with proof enough that you aren't dropping copyrighted stuff onto cdrs you can get your cash back Mister i have millions a pictures to place on 5 billion cdrs.
It gets a bit old and crass to say i dl linux and oh but what about me putting family pics on a cdr.
The fact that you say it tells me something. you have ABSOLUTELY no clue how many thousands of images you can place on one CDR, literally enough for a few hundred families photo albums. and if your smart you can get into image compression and OMG even more space. | |
| axiomatic
join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX | I do not support this. I have never read newspapers, ever. Why should I be taxed for something I have never used? Something stinks. | |
| WiMax
join:2003-07-12
Welland, ON
·Cogeco Cable
·Vonage
| Piracy taxes already exist Anyone that has ever been to Canada and purchased any recording media, (cassette and video tapes, CDs, DVD's) pays a piracy tax. We Canadians were and still are totally against it but the music industry convinced the government that they were losing lots of money to music pirating. So here I am, Joe consumer, I buy a CD and use it to store computer data. Guess what? I STILL pay the piracy tax. And to add insult to injury, the distributors of all music and videos, many of whom are the same companies that asked for the hidden tax, pay the piracy tax but they already add anti-piracy encryption to their titles! Then, of course, we get taxed on all this again when we buy the title. The purpose of the tax was to make sure that artists were getting their fair share. It's not a secret that the music and video industry is pocketing all of the money that is directed to them and giving NOTHING to the artists. It's all a big scam, and these industries wonder why there is piracy in the first place. Duhh!
Oh and the end of this article said that ISP bills would become top-heavy by 2010? Once again the author is not in Canada. Our telecom bills are so top-heavy already, we can barely afford any telecom services here. Example... (Americans please be seated so you don't get a concussion when you fall over): I have cable Internet "Lite" from a major Canadian company. UP TO 640kbps down, UP TO 150 kbps up, 10Meg cap, 100Mb email storage, no web space, virus scanning from server side is optional. The price: $34.95/mo plus $30 installation. This is about par with any company across the country because we have virtually no competition here. That has occurred because our government is in bed with the big telecom operators and protect them. Don't EVER let your government set up an agency whose job it is to regulate the workings of the marketplace. We have such an outdated and out of touch government owned agency called the CRTC. | |
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