Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | Cherrypicking
Copper is not dead because the telcos have universal service obligations.
Of course these are way outdated so it essentially allows them to cherrypick and make sure only the very profitable areas get FiOS. |
|
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | too confusing
So whats the difference between VZ's Voicewing rebrand, FIOS Digital Voice, and FIOS POTS? |
|
Somewhere in WV
@usps.gov |  Verizon deal
Verizon will most likely drop the copper when they are done installing FIOS to gain more profits. Drop the copper and they drop the maintenance and repair cost to maintain them. |
|
bgraham
join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | reply to patcat88
Re: too confusing
Price. 
Voicewing costs $25 tax = $30 per line
My Verizon POTS cost me $125 to $140 a month for 2 lines.
Verizon digital voice costs $45 or whatever. |
|
BigDog
join:2008-12-12
Montpelier, VT | reply to Somewhere in WV
Re: Verizon deal
i dont know that they would want to lose that income, could be wrong though. |
|
bgraham
join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Somewhere in WV
said by Somewhere in WV :
Verizon will most likely drop the copper when they are done installing FIOS to gain more profits. Drop the copper and they drop the maintenance and repair cost to maintain them.
That has to be true but over time the cheaper costs of maintaining fiber will trickle down to the consumer.
I am the lucky guy with the telco poles in my back yard and across the street is the POTS junction box for the neighborhood. Never a day goes by without 2 or 3 trucks working here. |
|
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
| reply to Eat Me
Re: Cherrypicking
said by Eat Me  :Copper is not dead because the telcos have universal service obligations. Of course these are way outdated so it essentially allows them to cherrypick and make sure only the very profitable areas get FiOS. Very profitable areas are anywhere most customers are within six miles line distance from a Verizon central office. Areas where a significant number of customers are beyond six miles but most are still less than twelve miles Verizon will probably find profitable enough for FiOS eventually. Anyplace more rural than that Verizon will probably try to sell off. |
|
Some Guy
@embarqhsd.net
| Umm..
Um... dumb question time... what exactly is wrong with a company wanting to make investments specifically in places where they are likely to see a return on those investments?
You don't see Disney opening a theme park in Alaska or Donald Trump opening a Billion Dollar resort in Montana now do you? |
|
alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA |  reply to patcat88
Re: too confusing
Voicewing, is VoIP and your Telephone Number is built into an IP Address and uses more of the Data Network. FiOS POTS the Telephone Number is built into the Switch and uses the PSTN (Public Switched Telephone Network.) |
|
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
| reply to patcat88
said by patcat88 :So whats the difference between VZ's Voicewing rebrand, FIOS Digital Voice, and FIOS POTS? Voicewing is VOIP service with the "first mile" over the public internet. POTS is over the Public Switched Telephone Network. FiOS Digital Voice will be probably be VOIP service with the "first mile" over a dedicated network just as cable digital voice is. |
|
hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs:
 ·QuantumVoice
 ·AT&T Southeast
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Somewhere in WV
Re: Verizon deal
said by Somewhere in WV :
Verizon will most likely drop the copper when they are done installing FIOS to gain more profits. Drop the copper and they drop the maintenance and repair cost to maintain them.
They can force people to switch too. the line of: we are no longer supporting copper anymore in your area  .
Give them a discount for FIOS the first few months and there you go. |
|
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast
·Embarq
|  Telephone industry is not very creative.
 The telephone industry has shown a lack of creativity. If they made the most of the copper outside plant they have in the ground, they could probably avoid the need to install fiber in many areas. In order to take full advantage of the copper in the ground the telephone companies must look at using copper pairs in a different way. In my view, would be to provide two pairs to each subscriber. The normal network interface would be replaced with modem/VOIP interface that would have the same two RJ-11 Jacks to deliver voice service as does a standard network interface and a Gig-E connection to deliver broadband. The entire bandwidth capacity of the existing pairs would be utilized by the hardware, optimized for the characteristics of typical outside plant. The designer could eliminate the need for local power by simplexing power to the converter over the two pairs. The question is what would be the maximum possible throughput on existing copper pairs if each pair was dedicated to a unidirectional signal. The best part about this arrangement is that it can be deployed on a per subscriber basis as demand necessitates and delays the need to install fiber. |
|
en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | reply to bgraham
Re: too confusing
Sounds sort of about right.
On AT&T it is (or was) pretty similar:
POTS: $40/month + $5 Canada ~= $58/month
former Call Vantage = $25/month + tax
Uverse voice (in the few Uverse arease that actually carry it) = $20-$40/month. |
|
tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
 ·Hollis Hosting
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to Mr Matt
Re: Telephone industry is not very creative.
Couple of issues with your proposal.
In most areas outside plant does not have enough capacity to deliver two pairs to each customer.
Even if it did distance limits still apply. ADSL2 cranks up the upper DMT frequency bound from 1.1 to 2.2 MHz to deliver blazing speed but only very close to CO. Rather then using each pair in one direction it makes more sense to bond multiple channels. This is a less expensive performance upgrade path.
Operating Expense (OpEx) of fiber is substantially lower then copper. Actually pays for itself after a decade or so.
Copper does not have enough bandwidth to deliver multiple high definition video channels.
In my opinion fiber; point-to-point fiber or passive optical network (PON) are the only long term solutions. Fiber is not as costly as people think, it is cost effective in greenfield areas. The problems for Telcos is huge capital cost for massive upgrade to outside plant that has not been fully depreciated. That said I think Verizon will be in a very strong position a few years down the road. Makes me sad to be in NH where Verizon sold off New England to FairPoint.
/tom |
|
rdmiller
join:2005-09-23
Richmond, VA | Confusing
This is very, very, very confusing. What we need here is more speculation. |
|
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | reply to Some Guy
Re: Umm..
Does Disney sue the hell out of anybody who tries to build their own theme part in Montana -- simply because Disney might want to someday? Not a very good metaphor...particularly since theme parks are not increasingly essential infrastructure. |
|
en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to Mr Matt
Re: Telephone industry is not very creative.
And they don't do this now because...
They can milk the infrastructure paid for by tax dollars (vs their own investment).
AT&T is attempting to get a bit of 'best of the both worlds' by reusing copper.
They don't _have_ to upgrade any customers - and can milk the CO to death, while tacking on VDSL on the last mile and milk those customers for IP services.
In Los Angeles area, they've milked it all...
Uverse for TV/Internet
POTS for phone
Allowing them to collect all the junk fees/taxes AND still charge/deliver internet+TV. |
|
wev567
join:2006-02-25
Pittsburgh, PA
| reply to Mr Matt
Nice idea, but the expense of Gig E NIDs, the complex coordination needed between the two pairs, and the lack of spare pairs in most areas are the most obvious problems. And how much extra power will be going thru these pairs? It's mostly 24-26 gauge wire. |
|
Some Guy
@embarqhsd.net | reply to Karl Bode
Re: Umm..
What would you propose then?
A government takeover of the broadband industry?
I don't see the problem so many people on this board tend to have with capitalism. |
|
David
No,there is another.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
clubs:
 ·DIRECTV
·magicjack.com
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to Mr Matt
Re: Telephone industry is not very creative.
said by Mr Matt : The telephone industry has shown a lack of creativity. If they made the most of the copper outside plant they have in the ground, they could probably avoid the need to install fiber in many areas. In order to take full advantage of the copper in the ground the telephone companies must look at using copper pairs in a different way. In my view, would be to provide two pairs to each subscriber. The normal network interface would be replaced with modem/VOIP interface that would have the same two RJ-11 Jacks to deliver voice service as does a standard network interface and a Gig-E connection to deliver broadband. The entire bandwidth capacity of the existing pairs would be utilized by the hardware, optimized for the characteristics of typical outside plant. The designer could eliminate the need for local power by simplexing power to the converter over the two pairs. The question is what would be the maximum possible throughput on existing copper pairs if each pair was dedicated to a unidirectional signal. The best part about this arrangement is that it can be deployed on a per subscriber basis as demand necessitates and delays the need to install fiber. Kind of like a really big CAT5e network?
--
If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this.
Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!!
|
|
