 
baineschile
2600
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI | Time Sensitive? I can understand most of it, but why are OS updates low on the list?
I suppose most P2p and FTP file movers wont really notice the difference, since most just download, and leave their computer on all day. | |
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christcorp
Premium
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY
 ·Bresnan Online
 ·VOIPo
| Re: Time Sensitive? Too many on the HIGH priority list. Email and IM is not time sensitive. So what if it takes an extra minute or two to receive an email or an additional 5 seconds to receive an IM. This is all for Time Sensitive. No type of file download/upload is time sensitive. | |
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Chasmn84
@comcast.net | Re: Time Sensitive? Last i checked IM stands for "INSTANT msg" not "In a minute msg" | |
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| | | mlundin
join:2001-03-27
Lawrence, KS
·Sunflower Broadband
·Comcast
| Re: Time Sensitive? Indeed - an IM several minutes late is the same as an e-mail. Instead of widening the interstate so that all the traffic that needs to get through can get through, we're going to restrict when and which cars can drive on it? Sounds like a bunch of B.S. | |
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| | | | utahluge
join:2004-10-14
Draper, UT
·Comcast
| Re: Time Sensitive? said by mlundin  :nstead of widening the interstate so that all the traffic that needs to get through can get through, we're going to restrict when and which cars can drive on it? ha
Its ironic you make this analogy. Here, many of the on-ramps have traffic lights so only one car can get on the freeway at a time instead of everyone fighting for a position. | |
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| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| said by mlundin :Indeed - an IM several minutes late is the same as an e-mail. Instead of widening the interstate so that all the traffic that needs to get through can get through, we're going to restrict when and which cars can drive on it? Sounds like a bunch of B.S. Um.. while your analogy DOES work, the intended outcome doesn't.. and, your premise is flawed too.
First off, Instant messages aren't going to take "minutes" to get there.. ever.
Second, widening the freeway.. has been done over time, many times. What happens...? Instead of a 2 lane divided freeway packed full of cars, you have a 4 lane divided freeway packed full of cars. Don't you remember the saying "if you build it, they will come"...?
The way they manage free-ways effectively is to throttle the on ramps, or get businesses to stagger their business hours. Either method provides the same effect. They both simply zipper traffic and distribute the flow of things.
If you widen the freeway, you just have more people trying to fight for the same additional spaces. Use the bay area for example.. you don't want to be on the 880 during the 5 o'clock hour.. it's 5 lanes at some points and it's still crowded. What next? Wide it more? You can only go so far with widening becuase more cars WILL come and there is only so much space.
The content and amount of users on the internet is growing faster than the networks can expand their pipe-lines. And by users, I don't mean households.. I mean "users".. one person can be 5 users if he's running 5 computers and having them perform tasks. (A better description would be "the number of active seats"...) | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
1 edit | Re: Time Sensitive? said by fiberguy :The content and amount of users on the internet is growing faster than the networks can expand their pipe-lines. A truth since long before DPI came along. All this stuff does is squelch/ritard/slow/deny traffic. It makes more room on the network in the same way as delete *.* makes more room on my hard drive!
(actually I want to type rm -rf / but most people won't understand that. [warning - don't try either one])
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
... Should we pay those who are "too big to fail" more money to ensure they stay that way? ... | |
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knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·AT&T DSL Service
| said by christcorp :Too many on the HIGH priority list. Email and IM is not time sensitive. So what if it takes an extra minute or two to receive an email or an additional 5 seconds to receive an IM. This is all for Time Sensitive. No type of file download/upload is time sensitive. Agreed, the list isn't even really a good one. All they have is "God Speed" and "Peon Crawl" at least going by the list. I hope the list is more complex than that. Otherwise, I can already see the network abuse coming (I'll tag all my P2P traffic as VoIP or IM,  )
I can tell you, a good setup to QoS takes a while and a lot of tweaking and testing.
Some examples of what I've had to deal with.
You want to put P2P down at the bottom since waiting an extra millisecond for packets isn't a big deal. You figure out ports, packet size, TOS flag, TCP flags, etc. Works for a little while until some just emulates their p2p to something else. Then you tweak some more, etc. Finally, you figure out that it's just easier to ignore everything you learned and just manage by packet size.
File downloads use large packets, VoIP, IM use really small packets. Small packets are way easier to manage. If someone wants to setup their P2P to travel as a VoIP clone, then they get a massive drop in download speed. The problem basically solves itself really.
With pipe management, it becomes a non-issue with bandwidth allocation. It's too bad really, the big companies always make it sound more complicated or difficult than it is, unless of course they just don't want to give any open source applications for this a try? 
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espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq
| Re: Time Sensitive? said by funchords :What if the file transfer is an Xray? That's a particularly bad example. As someone who works in the healthcare industry, I feel quite strongly about any provider who would roll the dice and hang patient's lives on an Internet connection (a DOCSIS one at that!). We invest quite a bit of effort to ensure we have diverse facility access on our of our private infrastructure so that critical medical data is always accessible. To put yourself in a position where if Cogent & (Anyone) depeer people could die -- you deserve to be sued for every penny you have.
said by funchords :What if the file upload is your advertising proposal for Megacorp and you're competing with other free-lance designers to get your bid in before a 5pm deadline? What if you left the house at 4:45pm to drive to their office in the city but forgot to account for rush hour traffic? Bummer dude!
said by funchords :If your neighbor's household of 9 are all downloading YouTube videos, should your connection go especially slowly because you're arguing politics on Usenet? The bandwidth requirements for text-based Usenet are such that outside of doing a full load of headers of a newsgroup, there is hardly any discernible end-user performance variance between dialup and broadband. You wouldn't generate enough traffic to notice any kind of slowdown.
If you're downloading your porn off Usenet it is closer to a similar scenario, but downloading isn't streaming. It's pretty difficult to grab articles, reassemble them, binhex/yEnc decode them, and feed them to a media player in real time. So difficult, in fact, that I'd argue there might not even be a single person on BBR doing this. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by funchords :What if the file transfer is an Xray? Seriously I would hope my local hospital would NOT be using a residential connection.
What if the file upload is your advertising proposal for Megacorp and you're competing with other free-lance designers to get your bid in before a 5pm deadline? Sound like that guy is working on a busines deal, thus he shoud be using a BUSINESS connection.
If your neighbor's household of 9 are all downloading YouTube videos, should your connection go especially slowly because you're arguing politics on Usenet? Um those 9 can't download more than what the ISPs provides. If you have a 10 Mbps connection that doesn't mean 9 people all sharing that connection can use a total of 90 Mbps. They all have to split that 10 Mbps. By the way all no HD youtubes vids have a bitrate of 320 Kbps, so all 9 downloading youtube vides would use a total of less than 3 Mbps. Oh and you are using an EXTREME example. What % of houses have 9 people living in them? 1/10 of 1% | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| Re: Time Sensitive? said by BF69 :said by funchords :What if the file transfer is an Xray? Seriously I would hope my local hospital would NOT be using a residential connection. C'mon -- the point is that the conveyance generally says nothing of the urgency or importance of the content.
There are exceptions, like BITS, but it holds as a general rule.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
... Should we pay those who are "too big to fail" more money to ensure they stay that way? ... | |
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| iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO | You notice if an IM, e-mail, etc. is delayed. Basically small and latency-sensitive traffic gets prioritized above bulk traffic. Just the way it should be IMO. | |
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NetAdmin
CCNA
join:2008-05-22
| said by baineschile :I can understand most of it, but why are OS updates low on the list? Because the connections for OS updates are nothing more than file transfers. They don't require low delay, low jitter through the network to work effectively, like VoIP or video. An OS update will download fine and work regardless of RTT or jitter.
Don't confuse "time sensitive" on an IP network with time sensitivity in the real world. Time sensitive on a network just means low delay and jitter thresholds, not less urgency.
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"This is a bus. You know how big a bus is?" | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| Re: Time Sensitive? said by NetAdmin :said by baineschile :I can understand most of it, but why are OS updates low on the list? Because the connections for OS updates are nothing more than file transfers. They don't require low delay, low jitter through the network to work effectively, like VoIP or video. An OS update will download fine and work regardless of RTT or jitter. So will E-mail.
said by NetAdmin :Don't confuse "time sensitive" on an IP network with time sensitivity in the real world. Time sensitive on a network just means low delay and jitter thresholds, not less urgency. Don't confuse a protocol with urgency. You can't tell whether or not I'm streaming if I'm using FTP as a protocol. The newest generation of P2P uses are On-Demand streaming -- Cox's plan threatens that.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
... Should we pay those who are "too big to fail" more money to ensure they stay that way? ... | |
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NetAdmin
CCNA
join:2008-05-22
| Re: Time Sensitive? said by funchords :Because the connections for OS updates are nothing more than file transfers. They don't require low delay, low jitter through the network to work effectively, like VoIP or video. An OS update will download fine and work regardless of RTT or jitter. So will E-mail. Yes, it will. Which makes me wonder why email is lumped in with "time sensitive" when it is not.
Don't confuse a protocol with urgency. You can't tell whether or not I'm streaming if I'm using FTP as a protocol. The newest generation of P2P uses are On-Demand streaming -- Cox's plan threatens that. I don't confuse protocol with urgency. At the same time, no one should be doing real time streaming with FTP. FTP is not designed for real time streams, FTP is designed for non-realtime, delay insensitive file transfers. Use the protocols as they are suppose to be used and you don't have problems.
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"This is a bus. You know how big a bus is?" | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: Time Sensitive? said by espaeth :said by funchords :The newest generation of P2P uses are On-Demand streaming -- Cox's plan threatens that. Seriously? So what happens when there are too few seeders or the seeders become overburdened with supplying a collective bit-rate high enough to maintain streaming? That sounds like a complexity nightmare guaranteed to produce dismal results in real-life usage. COX deprioritizing/delaying it sure isn't going to help. 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Time Sensitive? ... and simply increasing the capacity will also make things work fine as they used to.
So, instead of just increasing capacity(widening the highway) we put in delays(metering lights)?
Stopgap approach?
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | Re: Time Sensitive? Adelphia sound familiar? 
Thanks espaeth! | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| said by dadkins :... and simply increasing the capacity will also make things work fine as they used to. So, instead of just increasing capacity(widening the highway) we put in delays(metering lights)? Stopgap approach? EXACTLY -- and keep in mind that most of these ISPs are going to be applying for stimulus money to expand their networks. So how do you want them spending it: on actual expansion or on more ramp meters?
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
... Should we pay those who are "too big to fail" more money to ensure they stay that way? ... | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| said by espaeth :said by funchords :The newest generation of P2P uses are On-Demand streaming -- Cox's plan threatens that. Seriously? So what happens when there are too few seeders or the seeders become overburdened with supplying a collective bit-rate high enough to maintain streaming? That sounds like a complexity nightmare guaranteed to produce dismal results in real-life usage. The CNN example mentioned in the original article is just one example.
As for the rest of it, think of it as server-assisted P2P or peer-assisted client-server. It's happening now and it works.
I'm sure you'll find my multicasting message to TK a little later, but I see this as a workable way around the problem that you like to highlight broadcasting using unicast streams (although real multicast would still be more efficient) and desirable.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
... Should we pay those who are "too big to fail" more money to ensure they stay that way? ... | |
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baineschile
2600
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI | You just figure that MSFT would have more leverage with most large ISPs | |
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NetAdmin
CCNA
join:2008-05-22
| Re: Time Sensitive? said by baineschile :You just figure that MSFT would have more leverage with most large ISPs This type of QoS arrangement will have little affect on MSFT users' ability to download patches.
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"This is a bus. You know how big a bus is?" | |
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| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| said by baineschile :I can understand most of it, but why are OS updates low on the list? I suppose most P2p and FTP file movers wont really notice the difference, since most just download, and leave their computer on all day. Um.. think again oh wise one. FTP is used for FAR more than just the occasional file movers. FTP is used by people who manage websites and are work - at - homers. And, don't give ma any smack about "get a business account" because the TOS doesn't call home workers "businesses"...
FTP and Computer Updates are two things I think are going to bite them in the ass. P2p, however, violates the TOS and should be throttled .. NOT STOPPED, but throttled.
Personally, cox has it wrong, again. They need not decide and play god on what traffic gets priority over others. Maybe all I use my connection for is FTP work/tasks while others may surf YouTube all day..
They need to simply stick to their TOS.. ban servers, and if they still need to take a network management approach, they should take a look at Comcast's new system which actually does make sense... that is, if they NEED to actually install throttling systems. | |
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| | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP
| Re: Time Sensitive? said by fiberguy :Um.. think again oh wise one. FTP is used for FAR more than just the occasional file movers. FTP is used by people who manage websites and are work - at - homers. And, don't give ma any smack about "get a business account" because the TOS doesn't call home workers "businesses"... Yes, the extra five seconds it takes to transfer an entire website will be murder.
If your software is so poorly designed that it won't let you work on another site while one is uploading, you need new software that takes into account the intended use of the protocols it supports. FTP is not supposed to be low delay. In the distant past it was run over cheaper links than more time sensitive traffic so as not to interfere with people's telnetting.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. | |
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| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Time Sensitive? Hi there. When you come home from mars, let us know, okay?
What does MY FTP program have to do with Cox giving ALL FTP TRAFFIC slower priority? or slower speeds?
When you can answer that, or what really will be happening is you back pedaling your comment, please let me know.
Next time, a suggestion... actually read the topic and the posts you reply to. | |
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| gopnick
join:2005-01-07
Benton, AR
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Network neutrality absolutists will go nuts over this said by TKJunkMail :On the other hand, Free Press's Scott is a moron if he thinks a good network mgt system is one where every user gets to decide how the network should be managed. Perhaps if the management of Cox's bandwidth is the only thing they are concerned about. But, if you're concerned about what happens to individual users when their connection speeds drop to 500 kbps instead of 10 megs, user-controlled QoS management might make sense. A user could prioritize VoIP traffic, for instance, so that everytime dad hits refresh on the Drudge Report, mom's call doesn't digitalize...  | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Network neutrality absolutists will go nuts over this said by gopnick :said by TKJunkMail :On the other hand, Free Press's Scott is a moron if he thinks a good network mgt system is one where every user gets to decide how the network should be managed. Perhaps if the management of Cox's bandwidth is the only thing they are concerned about. But, if you're concerned about what happens to individual users when their connection speeds drop to 500 kbps instead of 10 megs, user-controlled QoS management might make sense. A user could prioritize VoIP traffic, for instance, so that everytime dad hits refresh on the Drudge Report, mom's call doesn't digitalize... A user can still manage his own traffic up to the point of the home router. But once it gets on the ISPs network and the internet at large, the end user doesn't get to decide how that is managed - that would be chaos.
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| Re: Network neutrality absolutists will go nuts over this said by TKJunkMail :A user can still manage his own traffic up to the point of the home router. What's the point if the next operator up the chain just un-does all your hard work?
said by TKJunkMail :But once it gets on the ISPs network and the internet at large, the end user doesn't get to decide how that is managed - that would be chaos. That's the Internet!
Look, if you turn this over to the user, the app vendors will respond and the chaos will harmonize quite well. Users are going to do one of three things:
1. Most will use the applications they use without modification. Therefore the apps will be responsible for opening sockets with the right DiffServ markings. They will do this because it's in the app's best interests not to cheat -- nothing works well on a congested network.
2. Some will stick with older technology that just marks everything as "best effort."
3. Some users will cheat by marking all their traffic as "urgent." This can be managed by providing a small quota for the highest-precedent DiffServ marks and after that quota is consumed, ignoring those marks from that customer (treating that traffic as the default Best-Effort). If the cheating is egregious, kick the user off the net -- that's been the custom of the Internet since the beginning.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
... Should we pay those who are "too big to fail" more money to ensure they stay that way? ... | |
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roachxp
join:2004-05-26
Milford, MA | P2P video How about P2P video like CNN is starting to use and some other sites? | |
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| | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| Re: P2P video So now you get to determine what is the best and proper protocol for an application?
Just like it says in the article... let the Standards body make the standards, let the application owners make the applications to adhere to those standards. If those 2 are in line, then leave it the hell alone. | |
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digitalfreak
join:2005-12-09
49533
| Re: P2P video said by Skippy25 :So now you get to determine what is the best and proper protocol for an application? Just like it says in the article... let the Standards body make the standards, let the application owners make the applications to adhere to those standards. If those 2 are in line, then leave it the hell alone. That's TK for you. Just ignore him. | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| said by Skippy25 :So now you get to determine what is the best and proper protocol for an application? Just like it says in the article... let the Standards body make the standards, let the application owners make the applications to adhere to those standards. If those 2 are in line, then leave it the hell alone. No I don't get to determine it. But I do get to give my opinion - like it or not.
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MarkyD
Premium
join:2002-08-20
Oklahoma City, OK
clubs: | I'm not sure if this is a byproduct of throttling... But my usenet downloads via giganews have slowed to about 1MB/sec in the last week. I'm not in the trial area, but I used to be able to sustain 2MB/sec at all times via giganews.
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| bluedyedvd
join:2007-04-15
Overland Park, KS
| Re: I'm not sure if this is a byproduct of throttling... said by MarkyD :But my usenet downloads via giganews have slowed to about 1MB/sec in the last week. I'm not in the trial area, but I used to be able to sustain 2MB/sec at all times via giganews. companies like giganews better start offering free ssl or they are going to loose alot of customers | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| As it should be This is how network QOS is supposed to work. You guarantee user experience, IE Interactive stuff that people tend to stay at the computer or television for. The rest of the "It can wait" stuff gets marked down to bulk.
As for p2p video, it's unfortunate that it's not easy to classify. Wait for p4p to come out which would allow the companies involved to mark the traffic from their p4p edge devices for better access.
Network QOS is not a net neutrality issue unless you're prioritizing a competitors voip or video traffic. A lot of ISP's now have direct peering with companies like Google and Youtube so traffic to them does not go intercarrier and cost them a arm and leg.
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs: 
| I think that Robb Topolski should just run on out and buy himself a 5,000.00 a month internet connection that does everything he wants it to do and stop expecting so much from a 42.95 a month residential one instead.
These ISP's like Comcast, COX..Time Warner give an AMAZING amount of access, speeds..and service for very little money compared to what it would cost someone if they were buying it individually. The ONE and ONLY reason it costs what it does is because everyone else is subsidizing the kind of outrageous usage that people like this are expecting..but not paying their fair share for.
The solution to their unhappiness is VERY simple.
Just call AT&T or level 3 or whomever..and order up their own backbone to their bedroom...and cough up the money to satisfy all their worldly bandwidth desires and pay the thousands of dollars per month it would take to do so.
Until then, assuming their budget is only 40 a month instead..they should be happy with all that they get which is so much..for the one dollar and change a day they pay for it.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! | |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: I think that Yeah, got forbid these companies not sell what their networks can't support. | |
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| Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| Really? Because I would be willing to bet you if ISP's didnt exist and we HAD to buy or own connections individually from dumbpipes we would still be paying about the same as we are today.
Simple economics. If they want to sell it, then they have to bring it to a price point that the masses will buy it at. It is clear, that point is about where it is.
The big problem is that we have to deal with monopolistic ISP's that you enjoy defending (as you are one of them) that want to be something other than the dumbpipes you are. And yes, whether you want to be or can admit you are, you are nothing more than a dumbpipe.
So stop trying to act as though you own the internet along with the content that goes across it and start doing what you should be doing: Provide an internet connection and passing packets as you get them, as soon as you get them, to the destination they should be going to. Nothing more and nothing less. If it takes the FCC and Congress to make you shutup and do your ISP job, then so be it. | |
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zsh
@cox.net
| Really? I pay around $130/month for a dedicated server with a 100mbit connection and 2.5TB bandwidth. In comparison, Cox gives me a 10mbit connection for around $50/month.
Plus Cox, according to their TOS, actually has a 60GB download cap. Sorry to say... but the speeds are in no way amazing for the money. | |
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jaynash
join:2009-01-28
Lowell, MA
| Protocol or Publisher Profiling? My question is this; how will they decide the published content is a "software update"? Is Cox going to target the publisher of the content (OS providers may be the most obvious)? Does anyone have info on this?
I'm also concerned about "time sensitivity" assumptions for the same protocol vs. publisher profile reasons. Consider a healthcare related example; bug in software that manages drug database or patient monitoring tools. Would 4 hours matter? I'm not sure. A bit more detail on the scale of time-sensitivity is called for by Cox. At least so content publishers that are affected can set expectations for consumers who transit Cox networks. | |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
1 edit | What Gives Cox the right to decide??? Hey ROB! It's their network! Not yours! That's what gives them to the right. The same as you get to decide at home what programs you give on your network get QOS they get to decide as well. Don't like it, don't use them. Be glad they're giving VoIP time sensitive.
And as always; if you're not happy with something; build your own and compete. | |
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bluedyedvd
join:2007-04-15
Overland Park, KS | a easy waty to all this shit if you want all this caping throttling shit to go away and even lower pricies is require cable compaines and telco to share their lines | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| Nothing New Cocks Orange County has been doing this for the past 6 months. If you try to watch or listen to anything on YouTube, or any streaming video/audio between 5-8p any given night, you can't do it because it won't download the stream. This latest "management" system is just another fuck you to the subscribers from Cocks.  | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Would you rather have caps? It seems this is a better( if less than perfect ) solution to network managment than caps and overage fees. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Everybody except web-only users should BOYCOTT Cox This is pure NONSENSE - who the fuck they think they are?
If I PAY for this fuckin' connection then I WILL decide what's more important within my bandwidth limits, NOT THEM.
It's the same fucked-up greedy MF coporate brain-damaged mentality that appears everywhere in cablecorpses - see WIRED's excellent article about that PoS Comcast and its rotten head: »www.wired.com/techbiz/people/mag···nroberts
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[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE] | |
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lordoflighta
join:2008-03-09
Phoenix, AZ
·Cox HSI
| Certain thing can afford delays I don't know what Cox plans, but the truth of the matter is that certain things can afford to wait. An FTP of anything can afford some delay and will still get where it needs to, as long as all packets get where they need to they will be ok. A case where getting all is important.
Now if you are having a voice or video conversation they have to get there in order and not be retransmitted, but you can lose packets and it still works, provided too many packets are not lost. A case where getting all is not as important ast getting them in order is important.
Listening to music or watching a video, you can afford to buffer, so all packet are fairly important and need to be received but you can delay some and still all will be received, you can even lose a few with no major impact.
Being a sick person I would rather have the whole MRI get to where it is going with a delay rather than get the MRI right away missing a few pixels.
Still I am glad I am not in Kansas or Arakansas. | |
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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| Is anyone else... Surprised by the inclusion of VPN on that list?
Well, being a Cox customer (in KS), I guess it's good to know what their plans are.
Sure was nice of them to let me know (/sarcasm).
Regardless of how I feel about all this, it really does tick me off that there's no notification unless it's somehow not going to happen here (yeah right).
Maybe it won't affect me much personally, right away, or in the future, but this sounds like quite a change.
I expect the 'ordinary' "BEST EFFORT" from the ol' internet... This "better" than "best effort" sounds like a pretty big change that I think we deserve to know EVERY detail about.
I don't care how mundane or "trivial" it might be, customers should be informed first, and have access to any and all technical details concerning changes to how the service interacts with the rest of the known internet.
The point about traffic review and customer expectation is also very vague. We should all be VERY aware by now that things are constantly changing on the 'net. How often and how fast can Cox adapt? How often and how fast WOULD they adapt if they even cared to?
Also, yes, I do expect all traffic to be speedy and "best effort" as it can be...
Who is going to decide what constitutes an "update" and from what sources? Would a download of, say Windows 7, or SP3 for XP, or a Linux distro be lumped in to that category?
At the very least, I hope they provide some good information about what exactly they're doing to our internet connections................................
As usual, BBR / DSLReports rocks for bringing such info to us. | |
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Network neutrality absolutists will go nuts over this
