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Comments on news posted 2009-01-28 18:21:06: Google, in cooperation with academic researchers, the New America Foundation and the PlanetLab Consortium, have launched Measurement Lab (M-Lab). ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

The red hand

This sounds like it'll help people catch Comcast, At&a, Ect redhanded

I wonder does it have a way to export the data it colects for use in showing the proof to people or just run test and look?


zalternate

join:2007-02-22
freedom land

More bandwidth

I think they could use some more bandwidth. Hard to get to the tools and made it to the main site only.
--
Consumer Rights is more than just a suggestion.


Billa9b0ng
Premium
join:2002-04-08
Altoona, PA

...

The ISPs have to be hating this. In my opinion it is a good idea and I'm glad a company like Google is behind it
--
The floggings will continue until morale improves!


hullboy
Premium
join:2000-12-21
Oakland, CA

love/hate

Comcast is going to hate this... and I'm gonna love it!

Can't wait to try this out at home tonight.

The measurementlab.net website is not responding at the moment. So it seems as if many people are just as eager as me to try this suite of tools. I'm glad someone is looking out for the end-user (even if it's advertising related).



POB
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA

1 recommendation

reply to DarkLogix

Re: The red hand

said by DarkLogix:

This sounds like it'll help people catch Comcast, At&a, Ect redhanded

And just what makes you think Comcrap et al. is quaking in their boots? The first time they were caught redhanded, all they received was a slap on the wrist. Sure, they also generated a fair amount of negative PR, but as Comcrap continues to demonstrate time after time, they really don't give 2 shits about bad PR because they'll just hire some journalistic schnook like Dan Roth from a reputable publication to write a feel good article to give weak minded subscribers the warm fuzzies.
--
The Toll

Tracking Lord Stanley


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

1 recommendation

I don't think their quaking but this could be a good tool to use when people think they're being effected

Its the kind of tool that would be nice to have on this site actualy


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

4 edits
reply to zalternate

Re: More bandwidth

said by zalternate:

I think they could use some more bandwidth. Hard to get to the tools and made it to the main site only.
The 2 main tools that are quoted in the news item aren't ready yet - Diffprobe & Nano.
»tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090128/···_testing

What is ready are the Web100 speed test(NDT) which has been around for years and wasn't developed with Google; the NPAD diagnostic test which also has been around for quite awhile, and the more recent Glasnost P2P test developed in Germany for reset conversations that were created when Comcast was reseting conversations of P2P sessions.

»ndt.anl.gov:7123/

»www.psc.edu/networking/projects/···#servers Try Pitts server which is usually up

Glasnost:
»broadband.mpi-sws.org/transparen···mlab.php

--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to zalternate
Dupe post


en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
reply to DarkLogix

Re: The red hand

The vast majority of users could CURRENTLY care less.
Those that are in the industry - techs/geeks/devlopers and those that run the networks and/or pay for it are the ones that will care.

TWC doesn't appear to be throttled
quote:
There's no indication that your ISP rate limits your BitTorrent uploads. In our tests a TCP upload achieved minimal 715 Kbps while a BitTorrent upload achieved maximal 951 Kbps. You can find details here.

* The BitTorrent download worked. Our tool was successful in downloading data using the BitTorrent protocol.

* There's no indication that your ISP rate limits your BitTorrent downloads.

swarto112
Premium
join:2004-02-17
Brookfield, WI

overloaded

The sites are overloaded now the word is out but the besdt tools are not available yet. The others are already available.


espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2

PlanetLab makes for bad source tests

I've actually had a conversation about the problems with using PlanetLab infrastructure for testing discrimination recently.

The Planetlab network is comprised of servers deep within University networks.

A nice list of sites participating in Planetlab can be readily found here: »www.planet-lab.org/db/pub/sites.php My dedicated boxes get polled by planet labs servers all the time; I grabbed a few from the logs that were obvious choices:

planetlab.kalgan.csail.mit.edu
planet1.cs.rochester.edu
planet1.cs.ucsb.edu
planet1.scs.cs.nyu.edu
planetlab-1.ece.iastate.edu

Traceroute to those servers and you will notice they are far beyond the border routers of the Unversity.

Why is that significant?

Colleges throttle traffic they believe to be non-critical to academic purposes -- they're open about doing so. Nearly every campus has rate limiting in place to ensure academic network uses are not impacted by recreational traffic.

PlanetLab will undoubtedly find many cases of traffic prioritization, but it will most often occur on the network their test boxes are directly attached to. This testing is no more valid than the tests performed by the researchers at the University of Colorado where they found "evidence" of ISP interference by DoSing their own campus network's NAT gateway.


funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

2 recommendations

reply to Billa9b0ng

Re: ...

said by Billa9b0ng:

The ISPs have to be hating this.
That was my first impression, but the reality is that they're broadband consumers as well -- of backbone companies -- any of which could be cheating them in secret.

This will help keep everyone honest. ISPs, in fact, ought to donate equipment/money/bandwidth/rackspace for their own nodes.

This is very, very, very good for the net.

-- Robb (emotionally whipsawed between Cox and M-Lab!)
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
... Should we pay those who are "too big to fail" more money to ensure they stay that way? ...


noc3x

@charter.com

1 recommendation

Proof once and for all

While many people are looking at this as a "gotcha Comcast", I expect they are looking at it as "bring it on" to prove that they are not throttling based on any applications or services.

The Comcast management system in place is just a congestion management which prioritized average users over hogs in real time regardless of application.

I for one like the fact that my neighbors kid downloading tons of games and blue ray DVDs 7x24 gets a lower priority than my Vonage call without having to use DPI (just based on bandwidth usage). And when his parent tells him to stop because his VPN isn't fast, the system automatically prioritizes the traffic back.

»help.comcast.net/content/faq/Fre···ment#how


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to DarkLogix

Re: The red hand

I've got a lot of hotels on my network with firewalls that do traffic shaping. Do I get a bad rap when one of their guests runs this behind their network where the customer (hotel)is shaping traffic and not the ISP?


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Mostly USA

Anyone notice that the whole world is mostly black except for the USA, specifically the North East and California?

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to funchords

Re: ...

Robb, why do you feel that this is "very, very, very good" for the net? Don't get me wrong, I don't see it as bad, I just don't see any huge benefit.


noc3x

@charter.com
reply to fifty nine

Re: Mostly USA

I thought it was mostly blue


justasking99

@pacbell.net

Net Neutrality

Along with the recent interim appointment of Michael Copps as FCC chairman, this is really good news for Internet users. Remember, the commercial Internet was created by the Federal Government with the High Speed Computing and Communications Act of 1991. The commercial Internet was owned and operated by the Federal Government under the auspices of the National Science Foundation. In 1993 the NSF turned over the Internet to the telcos with the proviso that it be operated for the common good. If the telcos are reneging on this deal, then the time is right for the US Govt to take back control of the Internet and operate it as a public utility for the common good.


funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6
reply to openbox9

Re: ...

said by openbox9:

Robb, why do you feel that this is "very, very, very good" for the net? Don't get me wrong, I don't see it as bad, I just don't see any huge benefit.
Because it sheds light where it is very difficult to see, and encourages honest businesses to stay honest.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
... Should we pay those who are "too big to fail" more money to ensure they stay that way? ...

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
Maybe I'm just a pessimist, but I see the ISPs burying language deeper into the ToS and AUP as the average consumer gets smarter about what s/he thinks they're paying for. Oh well, time will tell.

blips

join:2001-04-17
Addison, IL

1 edit
reply to noc3x

Re: Proof once and for all

said by noc3x :

While many people are looking at this as a "gotcha Comcast", I expect they are looking at it as "bring it on" to prove that they are not throttling based on any applications or services.

The Comcast management system in place is just a congestion management which prioritized average users over hogs in real time regardless of application.

I for one like the fact that my neighbors kid downloading tons of games and blue ray DVDs 7x24 gets a lower priority than my Vonage call without having to use DPI (just based on bandwidth usage).
How do you like the fact that Comcast is going to throttle your Vonage line?

»FCC Doesn't Like Comcast's New Treatment of VoIP

quote:
the FCC is surprised to learn that Comcast's new system impacts competiting VoIP products, but doesn't degrade the quality of Comcast's own Digital Voice service.


noc3x

@comcast.net
said by blips:

How do you like the fact that Comcast is going to throttle your Vonage line?
This is nothing more than political spin. You could also say

•the 7x24 DVD home store downloader on your DSLAM is throttling your Vonage line. Although fair share congestion management actually helps this.
• your FiOS neighbors that are running VoD's is throttling your Roku netflix.
• your Uverse neighbor that is running 3 TVs with HD programming are throttling your Hulu

It's a slippery slope and there is not perfect solution. So far I think what is out there today is getting closer and better than last year.


fatness
subtle
Premium,ex-mod 01-13
join:2000-11-17
fishing
kudos:14
reply to Billa9b0ng

Re: ...

said by Billa9b0ng:

The ISPs have to be hating this.
I wonder what their reaction to it will be. I doubt they'll claim it's proprietary information being released to the public (since too many people would laugh out loud). My guess is that they'll develop their own, competing measurement "tools" which will show provider-friendly results. Probably consisting of an animated .gif.
--
goodbye dad

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to noc3x

Re: Proof once and for all

Your reaching there. It is one thing to allow the laws of physics control the line. It is another thing to attempt to control the the line yourself.

The laws of physics will surely control the traffic 100% of the time. If too many people are on the system and it causes too many problems then user's leave the system freeing up the bandwidth and thus reducing the problems. The providers shouldn't be trying to figure out how to stuff more people in there by limiting the current ones. They should either expand their network, or allow it to naturally settle on X number of users.


jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
reply to justasking99

Re: Net Neutrality

said by justasking99 :

... then the time is right for the US Govt to take back control of the Internet and operate it as a public utility for the common good.
That's a chilling sentiment. I, for one, am not in favor of socialized broadband, and find it laughable that any thinking person would want to hand control over to the government.

Anyone following the news in New York, where the government is attempting to regulate sugar pop and salt content in food? Don't think it's a leap for some elected nanny to decide that gaming is a bad idea, or that anime isn't good for you.

mlundin

join:2001-03-27
Lawrence, KS
reply to en102

Re: The red hand

While admitting that you have a problem is usually the first step to resolving that problem, I would say that KNOWING you have a problem is the first step to admitting it. The vast majority of users CURRENTLY have no idea why some things work better or faster than others on their broadband connection. Here's to hoping that these tools can/will spread knowledge that things could be better...


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to swarto112

Re: overloaded

They aren't overloaded. Your ISP is just degrading your connection to them.

SuperWISP

join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY

Not measurement tools; propaganda tools

The "M-Lab" measurement tools aren't accurate. I tested their "NDT" tool on a 3 Mbps connection, with no NAT, and it reported a downstream throughput of 39 Kbps. It then froze up and didn't finish whatever other tests it was intended to perform.

Clearly not ready for prime time.

But of course, this doesn't matter. These "tools" aren't serious measurement tools; no one who is in the business of actually providing broadband service (in other words, no one who really understood how to build such a tool) was involved in writing them. They are, rather, propaganda tools put forth by advocates of Internet regulation (aka "network neutrality"). They're designed to find fault with broadband connections, even if they actually work quite well, so that their authors can yell for regulation of the Internet.

devnuller

join:2006-06-10
Cambridge, MA
reply to fatness

Re: ...

said by fatness:

I wonder what their reaction to it will be. I doubt they'll claim it's proprietary information being released to the public (since too many people would laugh out loud). My guess is that they'll develop their own, competing measurement "tools" which will show provider-friendly results. Probably consisting of an animated .gif.
I would think it is very similar to speedtests, customer polls, etc. Although people can come up with negative speculation on how they think IPSs would react, but that is what it is.

mwa423

join:2008-12-14
Cincinnati, OH

Slammed already!

I tried most of the servers to find out about my ISP and many were too busy to test my connection. I guess it's the digg/reddit/dslreports/etc. effect.