 
DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey | Tru2way where is it ? Well if Tru2way ever gets here, maybe we can buy a box that works on cable. Until then its a cable monopoly. | |
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 | Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
| Re: Tru2way where is it ? said by DaveNJ  :Well if Tru2way ever gets here, maybe we can buy a box that works on cable. Until then its a cable monopoly. even they comcrap will make you par $3 - $4 a /m for a $50 card and outlet fees. | |
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baineschile
2600
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI | Re: Tru2way where is it ? Uverse, Fios, Satellite....all have to have boxes. Why dont they get sued?
When one had cable, it was possibly to hook up as many TVs as they wanted, without extra cost | |
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aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Tru2way where is it ? With DirecTv you lease them after paying a big upfront fee. But you still don't own them.
said by Eat Me :You can buy boxes from sat providers. FiOS would be covered under cable rules, so any court decision regarding cable would apply to them. U-Verse is an interesting one. They are an IPTV provider, so I am not so sure how they would fall under FCC rules. My guess is the same as another cable provider. | |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | Re: Tru2way where is it ? That is true. They switched to leasing equipment a few years ago, 2005 I think it was. | |
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PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03 | Re: Tru2way where is it ? If it's YOUR box, then yes, you must replace it yourself. If it's THEIR box, they'll come replace it for free. | |
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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19
 ·Comcast
| Re: Tru2way where is it ? It all pretty much works out the same on either side. With satellite, you still have to pay the monthly charge for each receiver beyond the first whether you own or lease. Therefore, you are buying the receiver and still paying a monthly fee. If that isn't double-dipping, I don't know what is.
If you own it and it breaks, you buy another one. That is, unless you have been paying the $5.99 fee for service protection for the last couple of years so that your receivers are covered.
With cable, you pay the rental fee per month and if it breaks it gets replaced for free whether or not you have the extra service plan.
6 for one or half a dozen for the other, as they say. | |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | Leases don't always work that way. If you lease a car for example, you are responsible for the repairs. | |
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| yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON | In market trials in Denver | |
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| | beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH | Re: Tru2way where is it ? Two more points.
1.) Dual cable card rentals will cost nearly as much as renting a box from them.
2.) If consumers figure out a way to get rid of box rental fees, it will just wind up somewhere else. | |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
 ·PenTeleData
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| Re: Tru2way where is it ? said by beaups :Two more points. 1.) Dual cable card rentals will cost nearly as much as renting a box from them. With multistream cards, one card can decode up to 5 streams. Therefore a TiVo HD only needs one m-card. | |
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aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| I pay $2.99 for each of my eight cable cards with FIOS.
When I had six cable cards with Comcast, they charged me zero.
said by beaups :Two more points. 1.) Dual cable card rentals will cost nearly as much as renting a box from them. 2.) If consumers figure out a way to get rid of box rental fees, it will just wind up somewhere else. | |
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| | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Re: Tru2way where is it ? Competition is a wonderful thing. Here, Comcast nicks you for every single one...assuming you can actually get them, which is almost impossible. | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| said by DaveNJ :Well if Tru2way ever gets here, maybe we can buy a box that works on cable. Until then its a cable monopoly. Ya know...
»developer.motorola.com/products/···dch3200/
Kinda looks like a cable card sticking out of the back of this new Moto DCH3200.
Testing maybe?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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skuv
@rr.com
| Re: Tru2way where is it ? Testing?
Cable set-top boxes have been required to have separable security (CableCards) for a couple of years now. All new set-top boxes have CableCard slots.
There is no testing about it, they sit in people's homes right now.
Maybe the particular one you linked to is not available, but Motorola has CableCard settop boxes on the market now, as required by the FCC. | |
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| | | | ja78
join:2005-10-23
Springfield, IL | Re: Tru2way where is it ? all cable cards are 2 way. its the device that they are put in that needs to allow the 2 way communication. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by dadkins :I am looking at a DCH3200 sitting next to my HDTV.   It appears to be a cable card box as per the linked page above. Since the box is capable of OnDemand, does that mean it is using a 2 way cable card? Testing as in, testing the 2 way cards. Thanks! my SA4240HDC has a cable card in it supplied by cox.
technology is there so is GREED so i doubt we'll ever see cable boxes sitting next to the cable modems at the local wal*mart anytime soon.
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if the cableco$ are $o called lo$ing money on the boxe$ why not let them buy their own boxe$?
sorry, i dont buy it.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey | I think Uverse should fall under cable as well. They should have to be able to accept devices like tivo.. | |
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Cavalonte
@charter.com
| It is a crazy thing the cable companies do not force you to subscribe to thier service they also do not force you to rent the box has anyone bother to read the terms of usage upon signing up for cable it states you agree to the terms and conditions. I think I am going to go sue my landlord cause she is charging me rent for a service I use. | |
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quatrix
Premium
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL
| More frivolity "'The rental fees paid by each customer for the set-top box exceed its cost to Comcast or what the set-top box would sell for on the open market,' attorneys for San Francisco resident Lucas Mays claim in the latest suit."
... and? What's your point? Hey, the cable providers are also charging us more for the service than it's costing them. They're actually making PROFIT. Let's sue over that too. | |
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000 | Re: More frivolity Maybe I missed something. Isn't the idea to buy something for less than what you sell it for? | |
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| | probboy
join:2008-01-10
Natick, MA
| Re: More frivolity I think the gist of the argument is that if consumers purchased the boxes directly, the price of the boxes would trend downward. Given an open standard, anyone could manufacture the boxes with all or a subset of features; we'd be able to choose a basic, no-frills box for less than a full-featured box.
Also, the sum of rental payments on the box to the cable company over time could very likely exceed the upfront cost of the box.
Personally, given my experience with Charter's HD boxes, I'd much rather rent them and have Charter swap them out when they crap out. | |
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000 | Re: More frivolity Cable companies count on the revenue of these box rentals. If they start losing the $5/mo per box they will just slip that lost revenue into something else. | |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| Re: More frivolity said by battleop :Cable companies count on the revenue of these box rentals. If they start losing the $5/mo per box they will just slip that lost revenue into something else. Yep. Like $100 for 64 channels of crap. Think about that: 64 channels of mostly reruns for nearly $100 a month if you have to rent four boxes and remotes.
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000 | Re: More frivolity If you don't like it switch to Direct Tv or Dish Network. The longer you complain but continue to pay the rates the longer they will keep it up. Their accounts do not track complaining but they do track lost customers. | |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| Re: More frivolity said by battleop :If you don't like it switch to Direct Tv or Dish Network. The longer you complain but continue to pay the rates the longer they will keep it up. Their accounts do not track complaining but they do track lost customers. Believe me, if it were solely my decision I'd drop pay TV altogether.
OTA + HSI (DSL) + Netflix is plenty enough for me; I don't need the content, and I use that term loosely, cable or SatTV provide at the rates they charge.
Besides, these companies will make up the revenue wherever they can. If enough people elect to drop TV and keep HSI, what do you think happens with HSI rates? 
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| | | | | | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | Re: More frivolity Cable charges a $10 fee for not having TV or phone so they make it up there. DSL providers charge more for Dryline as well. | |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| Re: More frivolity said by hottboiinnc :Cable charges a $10 fee for not having TV or phone so they make it up there. DSL providers charge more for Dryline as well. I'm aware that cable penalizes customers for NOT having TV with HSI, but dry loop DSL does not always cost more (when/where available). It depends on the provider. I don't think Embarq charges you extra for a dryline --if you can get it.
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| | | | | | | | ajwees41
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Omaha, NE
·Cox HSI
| said by hottboiinnc :Cable charges a $10 fee for not having TV or phone so they make it up there. DSL providers charge more for Dryline as well. only some do
Cox Omaha used to charge $10 extra but the HSI costs the same with or without a additional service. | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by battleop :Cable companies count on the revenue of these box rentals. If they start losing the $5/mo per box they will just slip that lost revenue into something else. I'd happily pay a $5 premium to have full functionality with another non-Time Warner box. | |
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KoolMoe
Aw Man
Premium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD
clubs: | Do they? You know that for a fact or just assuming?
While I've read the same thing, I've also read they actually LOSE money on the boxes due to loss, failures, swaps, etc.
KM | |
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Zen6
@rr.com | Re: More frivolity Theft of converters was a huge problem. In the income based housing complexes we lost 5% of all converters. | |
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| | | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: More frivolity said by Zen6 :
Theft of converters was a huge problem. In the income based housing complexes we lost 5% of all converters.
Sure buddy. So what exactly are you going to do with them? Someone in the ghetto happens to have a Motorola head end in their living room to authorize their stolen box? | |
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| | | | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| said by Zen6 :
Theft of converters was a huge problem. In the income based housing complexes we lost 5% of all converters.
Sorry, dude, but that's the cost of doing business. I'd bet more than 5% just fail on their own. Quit trying to make it sound like this is the customer's fault. | |
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nukscull
@rr.com
| said by battleop :Cable companies count on the revenue of these box rentals. If they start losing the $5/mo per box they will just slip that lost revenue into something else. What are you talking about? Cable companies would LOVE to not have to buy new cable boxes.
Sure, they'd love to keep leasing the same boxes for their $5 - $10 charge per month, but if they could buy less boxes, then they'd make more money. Especially since they wouldn't be responsible for swapping out a dead cable box anymore.
It's not just a lease fee, it's insurance too, that you'll have a new cable box for no charge whenever that one breaks. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by battleop :Cable companies count on the revenue of these box rentals. If they start losing the $5/mo per box they will just slip that lost revenue into something else. *cough cough* gateway fee aka cableco slush fund.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by probboy :Personally, given my experience with Charter's HD boxes, I'd much rather rent them and have Charter swap them out when they crap out. I think that's part of the reason for the lawsuit however. Don't like the reliability of the box or the interface it uses? Then buy another brand ... only, you can't. You're stuck with the Charter box and I'm stuck with the craptastic Time Warner SA boxes. | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX | Like the old man who AT&T gladly kept charging a 2.50 rental fee for a phone for over 30 years. He paid over 900 dollars on a phone that retailed for 20-30 dollars and much less today. | |
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bhan261
join:2001-02-12
New York, NY
| Re: More frivolity Sounds like my mother-in-law. Her comment always was "but if it breaks, they'll replace it for free". It took us years to convince her we could run down to the WalMart and get a replacement for $10 and hook it up in less time than it would take to schedule a visit from the phone company. | |
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| | | jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: More frivolity To say nothing of the fact that it would take a half stick of dynamite and a bulldozer to break one of those old bell phones. | |
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| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
1 edit | Re: More frivolity said by jester121 :To say nothing of the fact that it would take a half stick of dynamite and a bulldozer to break one of those old bell phones. See what happens when a company cares about quality?  | |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA | Any retailer that would be selling these cable boxes would also be looking to make a profit. But without a choice, as a consumer we could spend 3 times the retail price or even more. | |
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| said by quatrix :... and? What's your point? Hey, the cable providers are also charging us more for the service than it's costing them. They're actually making PROFIT. Let's sue over that too. I don't see it as the profit motive as more of false advertising. My local provider advertises a Family Package for around $45 if memory serves correctly. Great! Except I can't actually get the service for $45. If I want all the channels I am paying for in the $45 fee, I have to add a box for $10/month plus if I want to be able to use the box conveniently I have to pony up another $2/month or so for the remote control. Therefor, one winds up paying about $57/month before taxes not the $45 being advertised. The service providers should at least be giving the customers one box for their subscription. Additional boxes should be paid for but if the service requires a box then either advertise the true price with the box or include it in the advertised price.
I do look forward to the day when set top boxes or other cable ready devices are no different than cable modems. You can go out and buy one, register its address on your account and it gets activated. No compatibility issues unless it is not DOCSIS compliant.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | It's not about profit. It's the fact that they are either breaking or circumventing FCC rules. | |
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| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: More frivolity said by Eat Me :It's not about profit. It's the fact that they are either breaking or circumventing FCC rules. No they are not. They met FCC rules. | |
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skuv
@rr.com
| They're not breaking FCC rules.
Do we see Cisco and Motorola selling cable settop boxes to Best Buy, but cable companies refusing to activate boxes they bought at Best Buy?
No, we don't. Because Cisco and Motorola are the ones not selling boxes to retailers so people can buy them.
There are TiVo's available, and the Tuning Adapter has become available for them to enable 2-way communication when a CableCard is used, and cable companies are activating CableCards that are inserted into TiVo's.
So how exactly are the Cable companies breaking FCC rules?
Unless there is an FCC rule that forces Cisco and Motorola to sell settop boxes to retailers, then it's not the cable companies' fault, it is the settop box makers' fault.
If a customer has a CableCard ready device, the Cable company will activate a CableCard that has been installed. | |
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dathing
join:2002-01-09
Sykesville, MD
| Re: More frivolity I suspect that you've never ordered a cablecard. In my case, It took 6 separate trips from Comcast to (almost) get it working with my TIVO. Discussion boards are full similar cablecard installation issues. The issue had nothing to do with TIVO, but rather that they repeatedly dispatched technicians with Cablecards that had not been provisioned. The process was a mystery to each technician. They literally sent them out with a shoebox full of cablecards which they randomly inserted. He freely admitted that they receive no training and are encourged to instead convince the customer to rent a converter box instead since "cablecards just don't work". I finally found an FAQ online that pinpointed the provisioning issue by explaining how to read the cablecard diagnostic page. I had to train the Comcast technician. The never did get the multi-stream (MCard) working and finally just left me with (2) single-stream cards. That of course created a billing issue that has never been resolved. | |
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| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: More frivolity said by dathing :I suspect that you've never ordered a cablecard. In my case, It took 6 separate trips from Comcast to (almost) get it working with my TIVO. .. and for those peopel that have issues, there are thousands of others that got it done with one trip. I'm not saying cable cards are perfect, becuase they have problems like anything else, you make it sound because people who naturally go to sites to bitch make it out that the whole system is flawed.
Dude, cable boxes are sometimes replaced a few times .... but for ever one bad install, there are probably 9 good ones.
"I had to *train* the comcast technician.." funny.  | |
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| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
1 edit | It's a San Francisco attorney out to make more money to pay for his over priced San Francisco city home. Or, another way to put it, it's another socialist attorney who wants to sue the country out of capitalism into socialism. "How dare they make a profit" he'd argue in court.
As of July 1st, the market opened up to allow for cable card mandates to the providers that were large enough. This was suppose to open up a flood of box makers to come into the market... where are they? (crickets chirping)
The law suit suggest that CABLE should sell THEIR boxes to the market place.. I don't agree. Any electronics maker is perfectly capable of releasing boxes to the market place..
...these suits are a waste of tax payer money.
There's another argument WHY they should not only NOT be sold, but WHY it's actually BAD for consumers... look at Tivo and what's going on with them. Tivo boxes were wiped off the planet, basically, when TWC wanted to upgrade/update their technology to include SDV. When customers purchase their boxes, this sends a mandate to the consumer that they are going to be able to use their equipment until the day it dies. Um.. how is a cable operator supposed to update it's system?
In cases where situations like this has happened, dual technologies preside on the same plant. Anyone who knows anything about cable plant is that the resources are getting cramped so that is out of the question.
If the cable operator wants to update or change it's technology THEY eat the cost of the equipment and they can make the change they need to.. in this scenario the consumer is going to expect their boxes to work.. the shift to consumer based boxes are only going to tie the hands of the cable operators when it comes to options.
I think the best solution is they should tap into the Economic recovery bill and give 50 billion to the cable industry and telephone industry and let them build out fiber to the home.. I know everyone here would like that, right? | |
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| | axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: More frivolity I've got to agree with you here. I think it would be a nice thing for the cable cos to sell to people who want to own them; but with no warranty of any kind, it would make people who don't know the risks very unhappy.
I think the cable co should just relent and sell the boxes, as long as they fully disclose the risks involved. I chose to buy a cable modem instead of renting, but DOCSIS is more universal than whatever cable TV analog is. | |
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fcisler
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY
| More Reliable Box Well I'd want a more reliable box first and also more open/customizable.
Luckily I've had this SA 8300HD last me a fairly long time now...but the 4 previous to this kept dying.
Where any large TV provider will be buying 10,000 of these (guesstimate) they may be able to buy them for $200 each....what do you think they would charge the consumer for ONE? $600? $800?
I would argue that you CAN purchase a TiVO and rent a cable card. I guess that's the issue? Renting the cable card? IIRC, new cable boxes are mandating that they get rid of that access card and are instead going to be issuing cable cards....or am I completely off base?
I'd like the option to buy...but now when I look at how much a TiVO costs...then realize that I would have to pay again to get the latest and greatest. The $10 I pay for my DVR will allow me to swap it out for a newer one when available...instead of having to eat a couple hundred each time I want to upgrade.
A TiVO Series 3 is what... $400 to $800? Assuming $500 is a midrange model, that's A little over 4 YEARS of cable box rentals! | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | DUH!
Box? Rent? Uhm, no actually! ;-) |
Yes, a Motorola DCH3200 box with HD programming with no service or equipment charges!
Free HD - no service or equipment charges
Access to over 1,000 HD choices
Over 80 digital channels
Channel 1 On Demand with over 10,000 movies and programs
Over 45 channels of digital music
100% digital-quality picture and sound
Rookies!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH
| Purchased boxes will fail Say you bought a cable box today. What happens next year when your operator upgrades to MPEG 4? Docsis 3? What happens when they go to 1Ghz and your box only supports 850mhz? Who would you complain to when your cable isn't working and the cable co blames it on your box and says you need to buy a new one?
All this happened with DirecTV. As they upgraded their network, it obsoleted a bunch of customer owned hardware. Now they have a rental model which works much better. | |
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RRMAN
Premium
join:2007-04-02
Cleveland, OH | Yawn Yawn! Who cares? Lets waste some more taxpayer money on this stupid crap! | |
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SRFireside
join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX | Re: Yawn Um... lawsuits... civil cases... no taxpayer dollars... | |
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wahtsee
@comcast.net | Re: Yawn who do you think pays for the judges the baliffs and electricity and all the other crap THE TAXPAYERS | |
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maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Yawn said by wahtsee :
who do you think pays for the judges the baliffs and electricity and all the other crap THE TAXPAYERS Not quite. Both parties (defendant and plaintiff) are required to pay court costs. If you win the case however, the court cost can be reimbursed by the losing party. The courts in this country are for a large portion paid by the people who sue and/or are being sued.
That being said, of course there are costs involved in operating a court house, and there are plenty of cases - a great deal in fact - where the representation for the defender and the prosecutor are both government employees. A murder case that has a death penalty involved, where the suspected murderer "cannot afford a lawyer and one will be appointed" (as they say in the arrest tid-bit), will often see millions of dollars of tax payer money fight other millions of dollars of tax payer money, because there is the right to appeal with every death penalty case, and these cases can take many, many years. Some people make the argument that the death penalty is cheap, but it is actually cheaper to lock someone away in maximum security for the rest of his/her life, because of the lawyers fighting each other till the end on tax payer money.
A civil lawsuit like this however, incurs MINIMAL costs from tax payers and is for the most part paid by the free market, which means that if the cable company LOSES, it will be us customers paying the bill. | |
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maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA | There are no tax dollars involved. As a matter of fact, this is free market and capitalism at its finest hour! | |
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anonuser101
@rr.com | The Question is???? Can, you sue people for being dumb anyone know related to this new story let know okay??? "lol" | |
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PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03
·CableOne
| Re: The Question is???? said by anonuser101 :
Can, you sue people for being dumb anyone know related to this new story let know okay??? "lol"
If you could sue someone for being dumb, you'd be bankrupt due to your poor grammar. | |
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markyman
join:2003-10-06
Ashburn, VA
| I don't get it No one is forcing you to get the service or to pay the fees. if you don't like it, then don't get cable. Get Sat, or OTA or listen to the radio
This whole notion about people suing over anything is driving this country over the edge.
I think next, I'll sue toilet makers for having the flushed water go clockwise rather than counter-clock.
The governnment need to put an end to those law suits that don't make any sense. | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| Re: I don't get it said by markyman :No one is forcing you to get the service or to pay the fees. if you don't like it, then don't get cable. Get Sat, or OTA or listen to the radio This whole notion about people suing over anything is driving this country over the edge. I think next, I'll sue toilet makers for having the flushed water go clockwise rather than counter-clock. The governnment need to put an end to those law suits that don't make any sense. Okay you do realize the point that you can buy many brands of radioes, including satellite, which you own. Besides there was a law that said they had to open up to other manufacturers. But the 12 years it taking them to finally release tru2way (ocap) is really been a problem.
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Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff - Frank Zappa
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| MichaelWacey
OwlSaver
Premium
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Actually, this law suit makes a lot of sense. It is very similar to the suit brought against AT&T back in the 1960's. There two primary suits. One was by an answering machine company (I can't recall the name) and the other was by the founder of MCI. Without these two suits, we would still be renting black phones from AT&T and using AT&T for all our long distance.
I think that cable needs to go the way of AT&T. Cable should just provide a pipe into your house and you can use any equipment that meets the standards. Look at all the phones and long distance providers we have today. I imaging that Cable would diversify in much the same way. | |
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| | travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM | Re: I don't get it Carterfone... and Jack Goeken.
Appropriate of nothing, I went to high school with his son & daughter. Used to spend time at their house after school. They always had cool electronic stuff in the basement. | |
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bac522
join:2003-08-04
Manchester, NH | What does this have to do with broadband? Not sure why this story is appearing here? | |
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PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03
·CableOne
| Re: What does this have to do with broadband? said by bac522 :Not sure why this story is appearing here? Cable companies provide broadband. Also, BBR/DSLR reports on topics regarding all communications companies.
If you don't like it, go here »/join/bac522 and then click the "Remove Me!" button. | |
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Chuckles
Premium
join:2006-03-04
Saint Paul, MN | Said it before... You can buy your own Motorola DCP 501. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| What a Moron What moron would want to own a cable box?
I've already gone through 2 myself. At the very least I can call Comcast and tell them to come give me a new one. And I won't be stuck with a box I can't use on another cable system.
If someone is that gung ho about owning equipment he/she can always go with satellite.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: What a Moron I own seven TiVos and have zero problems. they run circles around the boxes from Comcast and FIOS. Even if those providers gave me free service for the rest of my life if I used their equipment i wouldn't do it. Their boxes are nowhere near as good as the TiVos I have, Even though I pay $24 a month in cable card fees. I would rather do that and pay for my service than use the cable company boxes for free with free service( of course they would never offer this but if they did I would not take them up on the offer)
said by pnh102 :What moron would want to own a cable box? I've already gone through 2 myself. At the very least I can call Comcast and tell them to come give me a new one. And I won't be stuck with a box I can't use on another cable system. If someone is that gung ho about owning equipment he/she can always go with satellite. | |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | I'm enjoying not having any monthly fees for equipment rental. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: What a Moron As I mentioned earlier, I had 2 broken Scientific Atlanta boxes in a row from Comcast. Had I been required to purchase these boxes instead of rent them, I would have been out a lot of money.
Furthermore, prior to our moving to our current residence, Comcast had issued us the far superior Motorola DCT-64xx series boxes. Unfortunately, these boxes do not seem to work with our current Comcast service. Had I had to buy those boxes, I would have been out even more money.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday
join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: What a Moron said by pnh102 :As I mentioned earlier, I had 2 broken Scientific Atlanta boxes in a row from Comcast. Had I been required to purchase these boxes instead of rent them, I would have been out a lot of money. Fair enough. Would a new box have no warranty period?
My deals above were that much money as I wanted the series 3 TiVos and one was expanded. It can be duplicated with 2 new HD TiVos. 1 yr warranty, plus 1 year from credit card free warranty. Odds of a box dying between month 24 and 30 is pretty minimal. I had multiple DOA Motorola Boxes, it took 6 boxes to find 2 good ones. These all showed symptoms by the first week, the 2 left, I then had for nearly two years before I wised up and went Tivo. | |
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| jazzlady
join:2005-08-04
Bartonsville, PA
·ProLog
| Re: Comcast said by baineschile :I have 4 boxes with comcast. One i get for free, the other three (and I just checked my bill) i pay 5.97 for!!! Thats 1.99 per box per month. Thats about $72/year for all three boxes. Why would I go spend 200-400 bucks on something that could break...when if one busts through comcast, I only have to get it replaced? Not worth it to me. My cable company charges $6 *each* for box rentals, and I don't know if they charge extra for the remotes or not.
So my 3 boxes add up to $216+/year- and that is definitely NOT worth it to me. | |
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| | markofmayhem
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: Comcast Three boxes. So you'd rather pay $900 to $2,400 for those three boxes? That's how much Moto and Cisco sell for! Are you SURE you'll get 4 years out of that "you own it now" box?
The solution is competition. We need more Pace, Panasonic, Sony, Intel, AMD/ATI, and TiVo solutions to lower the price. Guess what... that rental fee will go down too, and if it doesn't? Well, then buy!
Consumers need a faster roll-out of Tru2Way DEVICES. Though, I doubt you'll ever find one at BestBuy. They will be "retail", but will be sanctioned by the cable company and Dish Network and possibly not sitting on a shelf of a big-box retail store for many more years to come. | |
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| | | jazzlady
join:2005-08-04
Bartonsville, PA
·ProLog
| Re: Comcast said by markofmayhem :Three boxes. So you'd rather pay $900 to $2,400 for those three boxes? That's how much Moto and Cisco sell for! Are you SURE you'll get 4 years out of that "you own it now" box? The solution is competition. We need more Pace, Panasonic, Sony, Intel, AMD/ATI, and TiVo solutions to lower the price. Guess what... that rental fee will go down too, and if it doesn't? Well, then buy! Consumers need a faster roll-out of Tru2Way DEVICES. Though, I doubt you'll ever find one at BestBuy. They will be "retail", but will be sanctioned by the cable company and Dish Network and possibly not sitting on a shelf of a big-box retail store for many more years to come. So I'll hook my computer up to my tv and get my content online. My computer can be upgraded any which way I like and I own it.
Consumers are getting smart and realising that the same content they are paying through the nose for is becoming available online and often for free at network sites and other sites like Hulu. And I believe Netflix has an unlimited streaming plan for around $10 a month that includes TV shows.
And when watching a show online- there are a LOT less commercials, and you can watch things when you want to watch them- not when the broadcasters dictate you should.
On top of that, the shows online are in their *proper* aspect ratio- not the center-cut cropped unwatchable crap I am getting from my cable company now.
I watch about 10 of the 70 odd stations I get, yet I still have to pay for all of them. That's like going into a restaurant and ordering a sandwich- but having to pay the same price as a lobster dinner.
I'm sick of it. The cable companies have been getting away with high prices and overcharging for years, and now it's coming back to bite them in the ass.
They're not going to wake up until they start losing customers- which is already happening. | |
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fred is dead
@swbell.net
| said by markofmayhem :Three boxes. So you'd rather pay $900 to $2,400 for those three boxes? That's how much Moto and Cisco sell for! Are you SURE you'll get 4 years out of that "you own it now" box? I think you are off on your (wholesale) pricing by....
about an order of magnitude.
SD STBs cost (well) less than $100.
HD STBs around $120-150
DVR STBs $160- 220
Those are in million quantities.
In retail, the retail cost would about double because of the additional costs involved and the need for a profit margin for a retailer.
Still well short of you pricing.
Doc | |
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gar187er
Premium Alcoholic
join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE | why oh why do these dumb consumers blame comcast!?!? its moto/SA they should sue for not selling to the public....not comcasts fault... | |
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trythisfirst
@comcast.net | also mpeg stream standards may be changing soon as well, comcast is rolling out a new line of boxes. Why buy something that may break/become outdated? | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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i1me2ao
Premium
join:2001-03-03
TEXAS | actually i disagree, this is the purpose of lawsuits. | |
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screavic
Premium
join:2006-08-11
Paron, AR
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
·Alltel Axess
| Fee's Anyone ever think these fee's are to help cover the cost of new development and ideas coming onto the boxes for your personal enjoyment? I also too like the fact that if the box goes fries I can call Comcast to get a new one. That is of course when I had cable in the city.
It was great cause my cable modem went out once and the digital receiver went out once or twice can't remember. I too have to pay a fee with DirecTV even though I went to the store and outright bought them for $100 but that is so they can update your software.
What's next we going to sue the antivirus makers for having us pay $50 for the commercial version and then paying $30-50 a year to addon an additional year of updates. | |
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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| It's worse than cablecard... It's more than CableCards.
It's more than Renting...
Nobody has mentioned the lovely encryption present on "premium" channels...
One should be able to buy a newer DVR/DVD-R device that tunes these digital channels, without a cable card, and without ANY monthly fees.
I can't believe Tivo is still so popular. Personally, I don't see the point in subscribing to a freaking guide.
Panasonic DVD burners w/built in hard drives seem like an awesome idea - you buy the device, it catches the guide info from cable or OTA, and you're free to record/burn whatever signal passes into that box.
Why can't we buy such a device that operates on a cable network? Encryption. Fear. Greed. Ignorance.
There's no technical reason a digital tuner could not be added to existing products, like a Panasonic DVR/DVD-R device. ...Even if it had to be "authorized"
If you pay for HBO, for example, and the cable company authorizes your acct. for this, why shouldn't ANY device be capable of receiving it?
We can buy a modem from WalMart for crying out loud, and have that activated in seconds and be surfing the web.
Why should a person not be able to buy a DVD-R or DVR or combo, bring it home, call up the cable company, and have that device be authorized for use on their acct (for "premium" channels...)??????
Sure, there are conveniences associated with renting a DVR, and it's also true that it's more "suited" for the service, with OnDemand, etc. but that's not the point.
There is also a downside to renting.
I have a Cox DVR - works great most of the time. Nothing wrong with it so far. Sure it's not the latest/greatest, but it does what it should, has dual tuners, and is supported by Cox - if it dies, I can get another, no big deal...
If I wanted to dub shows from its hard drive though? Some can be... others simply cannot due to the encryption present in the signal coming over the firewire link.
I understand the "premium" channels want to protect their content, sure, but this (encryption) is an impediment to fair use in my opinion. What's so wrong with wanting to dub off a show, or a movie, to free up hard drive space? The dub, or even DVD backup of said show/movie will probably be viewed once or twice and the media would be re-used. That's all most people want - is for these digital devices to behave like their analog ancestors...
Tivo does also have a simple transcoding built in from what I hear - that sounds cool too. Why shouldn't a media center/PVR type system be able to be authorized in some fashion, say a login, and also do transcoding/transfer to other devices (with NO monthly fee's other than the electricity associated with running the device...).
ATI has a USB tuner out w/cable card compatibility - screw that. Sounds nifty and all, but don't want the monthly fee associated with renting authorization... that's absurd... Should be able to buy a tuner card of ANY brand, authorize it, and just go. No extra cards, no extra anything, just plug it in, tune in, and watch/record as desired...
All these extra "gotchas," restrictions, contingencies, incompatibilities, not to mention service fees, guide fees, outlet fees, gateway fees, or whatever other fees I've missed, have really made all this digitization of video far more complex, convoluted, frustrating, and generally less intuitive than analog methods.
A DVD-RAM disc, for example, could be used to dub things off temporarily, watched, and re-used. The HDD would still be used to cycle things through a little less often, like if you're out of town...
More power to these people - I hope they win and that cable companies are forced to provide more open access. It would probably end up being a good thing for them in the long run...
I also hope Tivo changes - the fees for a guide are absurd, IMO, but their product is indeed kind of nice...
Either way, the "choice" would be nice to have. I don't see a problem with renting a DVR - I was one of the very first people in the area to get one, as I'd somehow made their list, and was offered one as soon as it was available. Was awesome, even with the 2nd tuner disabled - got enough of a taste of how cool the technology was...
The biggest problem is "content protection" - and I doubt that even the cable companies care for it all that much themselves... Authorize a tuner/DVR/DVD-R(AM)/combo device and be done with it. If people want to make them, sell them, and then buy them, why not. | |
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Thinkofthis
@optonline.net
| the problem i'm on cablevision, i have the triple play with family cable, and payed around $48 for the family package, now, they moved the most watched family channel package channels to encrypted digital, supposedly, i'm still on the same tier, and should get the same channels as i did before, BUT, now i need to rent a digital box for all six t.v.s as we all watch different channels, and the effect is the price of the family channel package has gone up by 1-1/2 times..and this was all done without any regulation, like it slipped by.. and there isn't any way around it, any solution would require renting from somebody.. it is the fact of this huge price increase, with no way around it that is unfair.. if they used traps as they had before for family cable, they wouldn't have to encrypt those channels, and they could be received by a digital t.v. but NO, they didn't do that.. | |
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