jadebangle
Premium
join:2007-05-22
Olathe, KS
 ·SureWest Internet
·AT&T Yahoo
 ·Comcast
| Not much improvement over docsis 2.0
Even with docsis 3.0 most of us will never see speed of 38/38 offered the cheap company will never allow anyone to have decent upload speed
Its always 10/1, 20/2, 30/3 massive on the download side, pathetic on the upload side
Just because its capable of 100mbps symmetric doesn't mean that cable isp will quickly offer these speed for the average user. The best they can do is 50/10 for 139.95-149.95
This will probably go on for another 5 years before 100/20 pops up for 199.95 
Happy paying extreme price to have decent broadband connection |
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percosan
join:2002-03-13
San Francisco, CA
| The Godfather does not understand D3
There is no 35 Mb/s upstream limitation in the DOCSIS specification. In fact, current certified devices support 4 bonded channels yielding ~100 Mb/s and future devices could add more upstream as requested by MSOs.
Same goes for downstream ... the spec is not the issue. It is the product that Cable sells.
Stan |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| reply to jadebangle
Re: Not much improvement over docsis 2.0
said by jadebangle  :Its always 10/1, 20/2, 30/3 massive on the download side, pathetic on the upload side Please give an example where 2 or 3mbit upload isn't adequate for a residential connection.
Yes, you may be uploading all those 8megapixel images to flickr or posting your kids 2 hour birthday party video to youtube. All those things can benefit from faster speeds and would be nice, but 2 or 3mbits is adequate.
Don't get me wrong, faster is always nicer, but the overwhelming majority of users barely use their upstream now. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| said by cdru :said by jadebangle :Its always 10/1, 20/2, 30/3 massive on the download side, pathetic on the upload side Please give an example where 2 or 3mbit upload isn't adequate for a residential connection. Yes, you may be uploading all those 8megapixel images to flickr or posting your kids 2 hour birthday party video to youtube. All those things can benefit from faster speeds and would be nice, but 2 or 3mbits is adequate. Don't get me wrong, faster is always nicer, but the overwhelming majority of users barely use their upstream now. bittorrent |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | reply to percosan
Re: The Godfather does not understand D3
I thought that the current return path was limited due to noise issues. |
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anony501
@comcast.net
| reply to Eat Me
Re: Not much improvement over docsis 2.0
said by Eat Me : bittorrent
Bittorrent for personal use (e.g. sharing a home video with friends and family) or bittorrent for commercial use, allowing 3rd parties to use (for profit) the ISP bandwidth to share to people you have no relationship with. |
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jadebangle
Premium
join:2007-05-22
Olathe, KS
·SureWest Internet
·AT&T Yahoo
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to cdru
100/20 would be considered generous
Charter offer 60/5
So 100/5 or 100/10 would be the ideal next higher tier if offered in the future
correction, the majority of us have fast download, slow upload. Just because many of us have slow upload doesn't mean that we don't use much of it. It just mean that we can't use much of it even if we want to. It would be a lot faster to download then to upload. It is frustrating for many of us that want to upload large file so many of us do not bother
Not all of us just leech most of us do what is convenient so leeching allow us to absorb huge amount of bandwidth.
Its by design...
Is it possible to give us 5/5, 10/10, 20/20 etc on cable internet? sure its possible but it would mean that you can freely upload as much as you download and that is what they are trying to prevent in the first place
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| reply to anony501
My comment was tongue in cheek.
On a serious note, a lot of people are telecommuting these days and they need the upload to upload large files quickly.
They probably should be using a business account but I doubt that a telecommuter would be able to afford an OC connection to their home.
Cable commercial accounts are out because they use DOCSIS. |
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iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
·magicjack.com
 ·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to cdru
And i suppose 640k oughta be enough for anyone? Seriously.
Want to do fast online backups? Want to grab files fro home at high speed when on the road? Want to have a remote desktop experience that's like sitting at the computer? You need better upload speeds.
If FiOS was here, I'd pay the extra money for a 20/20 symmetric connection, no doubt.
Before you say it, no I'm not getting a business line; they still only have 2 Mbps of upload here. |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| reply to Eat Me
said by Eat Me :On a serious note, a lot of people are telecommuting these days and they need the upload to upload large files quickly. They probably should be using a business account but I doubt that a telecommuter would be able to afford an OC connection to their home. You don't need an "OC" connection to have a fast connection, but yeah, it's not necessarily going to fit under the definition of a residential connection.
Even with telecommuting, the necessity to be uploading large files frequency can be minimized with some planning. And if you are constantly needing to transfer large files, maybe telecommuting isn't the best fit for the job. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| said by cdru :Even with telecommuting, the necessity to be uploading large files frequency can be minimized with some planning. And if you are constantly needing to transfer large files, maybe telecommuting isn't the best fit for the job. Try working in video or audio production.
There are people doing that from home and who need all the upload they can get.
In any case the problem is not a broadband class warfare between "residential" and "business" connections because business connections are often based on the same limited DOCSIS and ADSL standards. |
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jesseb_66
join:2002-12-06
Tucson, AZ
| reply to jadebangle
I bought an hd Camcorder a few months ago we upload all the time. We just had a baby girl and post videos for the fam back East in MP4.
It can take awhile I ussually start uploads before work and let em run from there.
The demand for higher upload is comming.just because you can't think of a need doesn't mean there isn't.
ISP's had better start getting ready. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| said by jesseb_66 :I bought an hd Camcorder a few months ago we upload all the time. We just had a baby girl and post videos for the fam back East in MP4. It can take awhile I ussually start uploads before work and let em run from there. The demand for higher upload is comming.just because you can't think of a need doesn't mean there isn't. ISP's had better start getting ready. Home security, control and surveillance controlled via the internet is also on the rise. |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| reply to cdru
said by cdru :Please give an example where 2 or 3mbit upload isn't adequate for a residential connection. Offsite Backups for one...
3 computers here in this room.
Sure would like to do monthly offsite backups - but at 10-18GB for each computer(that comes to something like 30-54GB), 2mbps would be painful.
I have 2.2mbps(nominal) upload now... but I don't want to trash my connection for hours.
2mbps = 900MB per hour
5 hours = 4500MB
12 hours = 10800MB
24 hours = 21600MB
48 hours = 43200MB
This is under ideal conditions with no other connection usage.
So, for me to backup my machines I would have to possibly upload for 50+ hours and not use the connection for anything else otherwise it will take longer?
Uhm, yeah. 
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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NetAdmin
CCNA
join:2008-05-22
| reply to percosan
Re: The Godfather does not understand D3
said by percosan :There is no 35 Mb/s upstream limitation in the DOCSIS specification. Technically correct. The DOCSIS 3 spec has a ~30mbps upstream limitation per channel. The change is that DOCSIS 3 supports channel bonding. If a provider only uses one upstream channel, by spec they are limited to ~30mbps.
--
"This is a bus. You know how big a bus is?" |
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Chris 313
Come get some
Premium
join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast
·Charter Pipeline
·Comcast Digital Vo..
·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to dadkins
Re: Not much improvement over docsis 2.0
said by dadkins :said by cdru :Please give an example where 2 or 3mbit upload isn't adequate for a residential connection. Offsite Backups for one... 3 computers here in this room. Sure would like to do monthly offsite backups - but at 10-18GB for each computer(that comes to something like 30-54GB), 2mbps would be painful. I have 2.2mbps(nominal) upload now... but I don't want to trash my connection for hours. 2mbps = 900MB per hour 5 hours = 4500MB 12 hours = 10800MB 24 hours = 21600MB 48 hours = 43200MB This is under ideal conditions with no other connection usage. So, for me to backup my machines I would have to possibly upload for 50+ hours and not use the connection for anything else otherwise it will take longer? Uhm, yeah. Yes, I agree with that. What happens when you have a backup that's a little over 100GB. THAT would be truely painful, wouldn't it? |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| said by Chris 313 :Yes, I agree with that. What happens when you have a backup that's a little over 100GB. THAT would be truely painful, wouldn't it? EXACTLY!
What if you had two computers... 
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | reply to NetAdmin
Re: The Godfather does not understand D3
Is anyone currently using channel bonding for upstream? Someone posted here yesterday that no one has ever got it working. |
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jadebangle
Premium
join:2007-05-22
Olathe, KS
·SureWest Internet
·AT&T Yahoo
·Comcast
| reply to NetAdmin
said by NetAdmin :said by percosan :There is no 35 Mb/s upstream limitation in the DOCSIS specification. Technically correct. The DOCSIS 3 spec has a ~30mbps upstream limitation per channel. The change is that DOCSIS 3 supports channel bonding. If a provider only uses one upstream channel, by spec they are limited to ~30mbps. Are you saying that only 1 channel is used per subscriber? I thought they use 4 normally and 8 with channel bonding. To give us speed of 152mbit/108mbit
The latter will never be used, just some theory on a spec sheet
Its 27mbit per channel, 30mbit is theoretically speaking much like a harddrive that is advertised as 100gb but is really 93gb. |
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Phil
Rojo Sol
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to cdru
Re: Not much improvement over docsis 2.0
said by cdru :Please give an example where 2 or 3mbit upload isn't adequate for a residential connection. Varies from one person to the next, but gaming servers, P2P, FTP server, streaming content from home, online backups, etc.. There are numerous reasons justifying faster uploads. |
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