Bell Canada To Take Ball, Go Home

lets see almost 1.5 years of 256kbit during anytime when a user wants it.
and they want to tell me and the rest of us they are going to slow us more?
FRAK YOU BELL CANADA
time to leave them for good even that 20$ to teksavvy

They might calculate that they won't make fabulous profits if they have to share. The government should stick to it's position, and announce plans to build out the infrastructure themselves if none springs up. I think Bell would decide they want to be in control after all.

Why should Bell invest billions in infrastructure and then have the gov't force them to sell access to others at cost. That would be a disservice to their stockholders and an extremely stupid action by their management team.

Because Bell built their current infrastructure and their current market valuation with government $$$, therefor with MY $$$. Why should they get a free ride on my $$ ?!?!? It's a god damn monopoly created with the public's $$ and at such it should server the PUBLIC's interests and NOT their shareholder's interests. And if Bell's management doesn't see it that, the government better force them otherwise. Unlike in your corporate America where corporations decide what you get, i still hold a bit of faith that our Canadian government, as bad as it is at the moment, still has a bit of cojones left to actually serve those who put them in power in the first place.

Adi

Check your history books.

Bell only built parts of the network where the Feds gave them money to (ie: rural areas).

The rest of it was through the initial IPO and subsequent 130+ years of revenue.

Excuse me ?! YOU should be the one to go back and read the history books. Bell laid out their analog POTS lines with government $$. Period.

Adi

Seriously? Did you even bother using Google first before posting a reply before I bitch slap you in front of everyone?

Ok, if you insist:
Detailed history of Bell: »www.bce.ca/en/aboutbce/h ··· ndex.php

Copy of 1880 Federal Charter:
»www.bce.ca/en/aboutbce/h ··· ndex.php

"By the end of 1880, Sise had purchased the existing telephone interests in Canada, including those of The Dominion Telegraph Company and The Montreal Telegraph Company. The company offered telephone service in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Quebec, Ontario, and Manitoba and had interests in British Columbia."

"The telephone's success rested on creating a network. In the spring of 1881, the Company constructed the first "long-distance" line in Canada between Toronto and Hamilton. The General Manager was so committed to the project that he advanced the funds from his personal savings to ensure its completion."

"Would-be competitors pounced on the article of the law requiring that all patented products must be manufactured in the country. Sise argued that he was complying with this provision. The government disagreed and on January 24, 1885, voided the Bell patent, ending the Company's exclusive right to manufacture and distribute the telephone."

Enjoy the full article.

Like I said before, the myth that Bell's network was built with taxpayer money is mostly false. I say mostly because in typical Fed fashion, when no one wants to provide a city with a service, they either create a Crown Corp or pay an existing company to provide the service instead. Which is what happened in some cities across Canada.

However, as you can see from the link I provided, Bell got it's initial funding from it's IPO and bought other phone companies in order to expand, then ended up selling all those outside Ontario and Quebec years later when they were strapped for cash.

I hope you enjoyed today's lesson. Class dismissed.

You know, another 2 seconds work and you could have found out that Dominion Telegraph was a department of Public Works organization. They had wire strung all over Canada, up to the Yukon.

Public works.

Government funded. Taxpayer money.

SO, you've managed to prove that from day one, Bell Canada was using taxpayer provided facilities.

quote:

---

The National Bell Telephone Company of Boston eventually took the patent off Melville Bell's hands. The company enlisted the aid of Hugh C. Baker, head of the Hamilton District Telegraph Company, to apply for a charter from the Canadian Parliament. On April 29, 1880, a special act of Parliament incorporated the Bell Telephone Company of Canada.

---

A Charter from whom? Oh yes...the Canadian Parliament. This is that little piece of paper that give Bell the right to string wires all over public land. What other companies have that right? Um...hint: none of the independant ISPs.

Here's another beauty:

quote:

---

In 1990, however, the CRTC ruled that companies could buy time on private telephone lines in bulk from the phone companies and resell it at a discount. Within two years, the resellers had captured two to four percent of the phone companies' long-distance business. In 1992 the CRTC was expected to institute even greater changes in the long-distance market, such as allowing companies to resell discount packages like WATS. Resellers, however, wanted the CRTC to go further and allow them to own their own lines, an idea Bell Canada was fighting. Canadian Business quoted Bell Chairman Jean Monty as saying that '[the presence of resale means Canada already enjoys] a workable balance between competition and monopoly.'

---

Why don't we, as ISP's build out our own wire? Read that.

As far as I know, to become Incorporated you still need some level of government to issue it, so your leap of faith between Bell getting a Charter issued by the Fed as an indication of being "funded" by the Fed is completely wrong.

And although Dominion Telegraph Co was a division of the Government at the time, Bell bought them after the fact.

You and others make it sound as if Bell was 100% funded and built it's network with taxpayer money which is a complete misnomer and false.

You (Deadpool?) and TK make it sound as if Bell was 100% funded and built using private funds. It wasn't. Not even close.

You (Deadpool?) and TK make it sound as if Bell did not receive and abuse exclusive access to public works and rights of way. Absolutely false.

The well-known BCE "about us" link is hardly a source.

Shill...

I'm sure Execs at Bell would love the Canadian public to swallow that one hook line and sinker.

It's cost + 15%.If the competitors had access to the local loop then this would not be a problem.Its either this or unbundl the local loops like the EU did.We don't wanna be like the US and have just a bunch of monopolies,we want choice.

then starting building out your own company. MOT will sell you some Canopy devices to start doing that.

Um because my tax dollars pay for that infrastructure, and continue to pay for it by funding an agency that invetibly rules in favor of said company?

Here's an idea: How about you learn about Canadian Telecom before sharing your infinite wisdom on it.

Um because my tax dollars pay for that infrastructure

Um, no, customer dollars do.

and continue to pay for it by funding an agency

Um, no, telecom companies do.

that invetibly rules in favor of said company

Um, you do realize that this article is about Bell going to Cabinet to try and get the politicians to overturn a series of CRTC rulings against said company?

Why should Canada allow them to continue to operate in their country?

I say Canada should tell them they are sharing and they are going to continue to roll out the next generation network. And if they don't, then they will be stripped of their current network and will no longer be operating in Canada.

Sorry, forgot, all regulation bad, open market good, right?

If you're going to make that argument do it with fact, it's cost+ basis not just cost, that would be ridiculous.

1st they outsource to people who dont have any idea what they talk about
"5 megabit is 500Kbytes/sec" LOL
scam1
breaching there contracts at will , with no penalties YET if your or i do it we get dinged anyhwere from 100-150$ each
scam2
( would look good that any comapny doing so that also breaches a contract ALSO has to pay that, ya thatwould change things wouldn't it)
NOW they want to drop us to 256kbit speed ( thats the speed full tilt all month to reach a 60GB cap roughly )
Man are they pushing there limits.
Funny how there own service NOW offers 100GB and rogers suddenly offers 95GB
leave bell altogehter DONT GIVE THEM ANYTHING

They are an out of control monopoly that is doing harm to the consumer and by extension, to the Canadian economy.

Adi

If Bell Canada decides to pick up all their marbles and leave, the CRTC could very well fight back by breaking up the monopoly. Open the market to competitors at extremely favorable terms. Bell Canada is going to have to learn that when you are a regulated monopoly, you have to play by certain rules. If you don't like it, then give up your monopoly status and face real competition.

Agree! +1

+2

SHATTER THEM!!

+3!

Amen brother !!

Adi

And the winner is...

+4

Businesses are in business for one reason only, to make as much money as possible. I find it funny that you are so mad that they are acting this way. What were you expecting?

I'm a rogers user I don't see the difference between bell and rogers. I hate rogers and I am leaving them this month, I wouldn't go to bell either. As for competition there is price fixing everywhere. Look at the gas industry, or take a local retailer best buy and it's sister store futureshop. Look at the price fixing of lcd panels that was in the news all the manufactures which were in competition all had artificially high prices.

I know why you guys are mad, it's pointless nothing is going to change. Maybe when the cost of living becomes to high people will stand up or cut back.

I don't feel sorry for bell or any other company. They want to make as much money as possible, there is no social accountability just collusion.

RE: expecting?

Proper (third-party, unbiased) regulation of a monopoly, as defined by our national laws and regulations. I find it funny that a seemingly well-versed pessimist chose to overlook this market requirement.

You can dream all you want. While we are on the topic of expectation, I wish for world peace. National laws another good point I think people should follow them, no more violence crimes, no more companies which scam shareholders.

In today's day and age I think that's an unrealistic expectation.

Yes businesses are in business to make money. In a fair market that is a perfectly reasonable goal. However, when you are talking about a regulated monopoly, the rules are different. Generally, for a guaranteed rate of return, a regulated monopoly is guaranteed an a exclusive market subject to regulation. Now, if said monopoly is willing to forgo their monopoly status and go head to head with other businesses on a level playing field than I see nothing wrong with then trying to make as much money as possible. Their competitors will keep them in line.

That's the thing, you believe in rules. Since when do companies follow rules and regulations. Even governments don't follow their own rules.

You are saying because they are regulated monopoly you expect them to just follow the rules. Rules and regulations will always be broken. Why do you think we have jails and a court system. This is not an ideal world, if Bell can cheat and lie to get ahead sure they will do it. Bell is going to do whatever it takes to take more money, regardless of "Regulations" or "Rules". My point is it doesn't matter if they are a regulated monopoly they are still going to try and do what they want.

people in Canada want the same thing as here. They want the actual last mile providers build out the network and then be forced to sell it to some 3rd party provider for pennies on the dollar and then let them sell it for 110+ mark-up and the actual network owner not make a dime off it.

+9000

That my neighborhood will never be upgrade now. Bell sucks, has for the past few years, and will until everyone is long dead.

Maybe the government should use some of that stimulus and just rebuild the entire network and let Bell Canada rot in hell.

Bell has no choice but to invest in their Next Generation Network. The cable companies are their real enemy. They're being quite disingenuous when they claim that allowing competitors access will deter them from making new investment.

They also claim that the 7, 10 and 16 meg profiles are offered *Only* on their Next Generation Network, which of course is complete nonsense. They offer these profiles from Host based DSLAMs as well.

You cannot get 16 meg off DSLAM for the person that said that.

That threat sounds like economic terrorism to me.

It's time corporations thought about their customers and the country [or countries] they operate in before their bottom lines. If they can't do that, they should be run out of business.

Rogers and Bell own most popular media outlets, I'm sure this won't make the news with the exception of the CBC. Monopoly is a understatement. Funny how Corporations can hold the Public/Government hostage and most people won't even hear about it.

Um..someone for the love of God PLEASE explain to me what good it is to have a Fiber connection that is CAPPED and THROTTLED by Bell?!?

To control the flow of information (not being a dumb pipe). To not invest in upgrades... anything is better to them than investing.

Profits...

Sounds like the USA we will only build out a new network if we don't sure it. Okay. ATT, VZ you get what you want. Everyone else, you get screwed, even if you have a cable company that wants to service you, because they hit their 30% market cap, but that's okay because many one day you'll have U-Verse.

When I was in college I had a blue box that allowed me to make free phone calls, among other things. I built mine in a pocket calculator case. When you turned it on, the display said FUCH BELL (the best K you could make with a seven segment display). Seems to me that phrase is as relevant now as it was over 25 years ago, at least in Canada!

The margins on Broadband are very low. Those that think they are not are not informed.

The infrastructure, maintenance, transport, provisioning, billing, and support costs with providing reliable high speed access, especially in a country as widespread as Canada are huge.

The illusion that the telcos are making fantastic profits is plain wrong - look at their annual reports. Flat revenue growth and raising costs.

An investment of billions by a private enterprise should be left alone for them to use. Thats the only way there will be an incentive to invest.

If there were so much profit to be made why wouldn't there be a list of companies providing this service and investing in fiber?

You keep forgetting that CapEx for Canada per person is WAAAAYYY higher than in other countries.

Given the large land mass and dispersed population, Bell's investment is much less efficient than in the US (where the same geography has 10x the population). As a result, Bell should be allowed to keep more revenue if they're going to wire the country end-to-end.

Why don't the small ISPs start laying cable instead of bottom-feeding and complaining?

because that would make sense and nobody wants that. they want the big evil Bell and Roger's Family to do that. Besides companies like Teksavvy would have to spend money and we can't have that because they're too busy working on their own Dish TV services.

You are right if you take rural regions into account, but urban zones are not that dispersed. By saying US has 10x the population for the same geography, you also take allot of un-occupied territory into account. Those zones don't need and don't have any wiring at all. In the end, that doesn't really make sense.

Back 4-10 years ago, the ISPs were actually offering a better service and there were less users. No cap, no throttling, just a little less speed. Does that cost more in wiring for more users in urban centers that already had broadband anyway? I don't think so. Does it cost more in server equipment? Surely. But that didn't stop them from investing even more in electronic equipment and technology that actually undermine the quality of the service for their customers.

Technology is probably the reason why they didn't put restrictive measures at the start. I remember Videotron not being able to monitor traffic usage for some types of modem back then. The same goes for throttling.

The Speed competition between the ISPs probably helped to create that. 'We have more speed, we are the fastest.' But written in very small characters on the bottom of the screen it says, 'Your restricted to only 20gig a month, but probably don't give a fuck since your only an average user that only wants his webpages to load as fast as possible.' More speed, less usability. I'm just speculating, but that's pretty much what it looks like.

Back some years ago, you had the choice to have the fastest capped shit, that offers special features, like being able to watch secret webcams in reality shows like Star Academy and Loft Story(let me laugh) with Videotron, or have less speedy, uncapped service, without special features from Bell. The choice was clear, Bell all the way. That was the good old days, now it sucks everywhere you look.

you know all this bickering about where th money came from is pointless bell built it or bought it and there for they own it, this whole they uses money from government so the government should be able to tell them what they do with it is no different then some one getting a grant from the government to start up a company cause they developed the perfect replacement for windows then told they have to share the code with competitors, to put it simple bell owns it and should not have to share the network with other company's if they wanna provide the same services they should build there own network,