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Comments on news posted 2009-03-26 12:07:30: Last year, consumer advocacy group Public Knowledge penned a piece that was by and large ignored by the Steve Jobs-obsessed technology media. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:9

1 edit

2 recommendations

Bravo for uncovering bogus "interest" groups

Well done Karl!

Clearly, we do need competition. It's amazing that so many people don't understand how important competition is.

-Dane


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Pot Meet Kettle

The pork bill itself is a con.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!


baineschile
2600 ways to live
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI

Michigan

I am always tired of Michigan getting butchered on a map. I wish we lived in a nice square state like Wyoming.

Cmon people, we are a MITTEN


baineschile
2600 ways to live
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI

1 edit
reply to DaneJasper

Re: Bravo for uncovering bogus "interest" groups

But should competition be subsidized by the government? Thats a step towards socialization.

Personally, if I started an ISP, i would target areas that would cost me the least amount to wire, with the most amount of homes passed (potential customers). The answer to this? Cities!...and densley populated suburbs around those cities.

Rural living and city living both have advantages and disadvantages; you dont see a lot of competition in any industry in small towns (one walmart, 2 or so chain restruants). Why should broadband be different?


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to pnh102

Re: Pot Meet Kettle

said by pnh102:

The pork bill itself is a con.
Do you mean to imply that flushing trillions of dollars down the toilet is somehow bad??
--
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-


me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO

1 edit
reply to baineschile

Re: Bravo for uncovering bogus "interest" groups

What is the answer to the cost of wiring? Wireless, if someone were to put up a town that serves the city good got the city served, and if the people on the outskirts of town can get the signal got them served too.

And if the Gov is going to give them money to wire more anyway, y should they not use it for that? Its not like the yr not getting money, if they get it to wire more thats what the yshould use it for. I still say wireless would be easier.


en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
reply to baineschile

Re: Michigan

Not quite a mitten.


mr sean
Professional Infidel
Premium,ExMod 2001-07
join:2001-04-03
N. Absentia
kudos:1

It treasures what?

From: »www.connectednation.org/who_we_are/

quote:
INTEGRITY. Connected Nation treasures its corporate credibility. Employees possess a passion for the corporate mission, honesty without hesitation, and respect for all people. Employees maintain a good attitude, a strong work ethic and a spirit for community.
Corporate and credibility, my favorite oxymoron.
--
How you can make the world a Better Place


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:42
reply to en102

Re: Michigan

oven-mitt-esque?


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:42
reply to mr sean

Re: It treasures what?

Do we know what year it was where words no longer meant anything? They really should have sent out a memo.


Mr Fel
Premium
join:2008-03-17
Louisville, KY
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

Claim Otherwise...

There is no claim, at this point it is known fact that Kentucky doesn't have 100% coverage. And at that point I doubt Kentucky will ever have complete coverage. We're too rural a state for just about all ISPs want to go anywhere outside the few cities and several towns. I'd love to see these articles calling out Connected Nation and Connected Kentucky on their bs garner more public attention.


baineschile
2600 ways to live
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI
reply to Karl Bode

Re: Michigan

I dont count the UP. As far as I am concered, they are a hybrid of packer fans/oiler fans (just kidding and BBR members from Sault St. Marie!)


baineschile
2600 ways to live
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI
reply to me1212

Re: Bravo for uncovering bogus "interest" groups

You make a valid point, but lets say we do start an all wireless ISP. If a customer has our product, and its not working properly, we would have to send out a technician to repair it. Obivously, rural areas are still harder to access.


bit_junkie

join:2004-05-04
Maricopa, AZ

Of course they don't....

want the real data to be known, that would mean they would actually have to use any money they get from the government to start building out their networks and start serving places they deem not to be profitable, they just want to pocket the money and move on to something more important, the continued fleecing of our government for the good of the corporate coffers.
No cable or telco should get anymore of our money, by that i mean us taxpayers until each and everyone of them has 100% verifiable and accurate data.


mr sean
Professional Infidel
Premium,ExMod 2001-07
join:2001-04-03
N. Absentia
kudos:1
reply to Karl Bode

Re: It treasures what?

I believe the Dutch East India Company was supposed to be responsible for that paperwork...

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to baineschile

Re: Bravo for uncovering bogus "interest" groups

Thats why wireless costs more than wired, WISPs take that(repair men) into account.

moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
reply to baineschile
said by baineschile:

But should competition be subsidized by the government? Thats a step towards socialization.

Personally, if I started an ISP, i would target areas that would cost me the least amount to wire, with the most amount of homes passed (potential customers). The answer to this? Cities!...and densley populated suburbs around those cities.

Rural living and city living both have advantages and disadvantages; you dont see a lot of competition in any industry in small towns (one walmart, 2 or so chain restruants). Why should broadband be different?
At one time, celluar service was regulated by the government. There was a requirement that there be an "A" and "B" system in every market. The "A" system company could NOT have any interest in the local wireline service. The "B" system could have an interest in the local wireline service. Lease rates were also regulated so the "B" system couldn't out price the "A" on the same connections. In my area, the "A" system was Celluar One and the "B" system was Bell Atlantic Mobile.

Sometimes mandated competition is a good thing.


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to DaneJasper
Bravo for uncovering bogus "interest" groups. You mean like Public Knowledge? Brodsky wants a big chunk of that $350 million for his own organization and that may be his underlying bias against Connected Nation.
Public Knowledge has argued that they're derailing more serious broadband mapping efforts already underway in a number of States. That's a big deal, since included in the $7 billion dollar broadband stimulus plan is $350 million to be spent on mapping.

--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA

2 edits
reply to Mr Fel

Re: Claim Otherwise...

If you count satellite broadband Kentucky and the entire country already is 100% covered.


RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2
reply to FFH5

Re: Bravo for uncovering bogus "interest" groups

said by FFH5:

Bravo for uncovering bogus "interest" groups. You mean like Public Knowledge? Brodsky wants a big chunk of that $350 million for his own organization
Well put.

artbrodsky

join:2007-08-30
Washington, DC

1 recommendation

Just so you know, I wrote my first story about Connected Nation more than a year ago, long before there was any thought about a need for the stimulus. see »www.publicknowledge.org/node/1334

I've done several more stories since, which you are free to examine at your leisure.

Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

For $350 Million data should belong to public!

If the Federal Government is going to spend $350 Million of our money on broadband mapping then all data collected should belong to the public and not to any (for or non-profit) corporation. Remember our government is not spending some organization's or corporation's money.


88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

2 recommendations

reply to baineschile

Re: Bravo for uncovering bogus "interest" groups

said by baineschile:

But should competition be subsidized by the government? Thats a step towards socialization.
Oh god you people and your fears of a socialized USA.

A) take off the tin foil hat Chicken Little

B) guess what we already have socialisation with SOCIAL security, Medicaid, Medicare etc. And guess what for most Americans those programs have always existed yet you still think the USA is free, right? You still think it's the greatest nation on earth, right? Wait, how can that be, there's socialization?

C) it's 2009 not 1989 the big mean commies aren't coming to invade us.


S_engineer
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
reply to artbrodsky
Ok, in the interest of time, the whom in your opinion, would be an independant guard or group to give this task to?

goinglike60

join:2009-02-10
reply to baineschile
Access to the internet needs to be treated like infrastructure. Therefore, access to the web needs to be run like municipal utilities (and police, fire, water, sewer, etc.)

No competition. But far cheaper because there are no shareholders demanding and ROI and quarterly dividend checks.

Check out this little town in KY and what they are able to do. »rbg.glasgow-ky.com/2009/03/of-in···gow.html

While our initial gravel driveway connection to the world has now grown from 1.5 Mbps to 150 Mbps...we will be completing our own fiber optic circuit to Bowling Green and, in turn, to an AT&T router which is in Bowling Green. This will finally allow us nearly infinite capacity to the internet.
(BTW: Bowling Green is the home of Connect Kentucky which spawned Connected Nation.)

Local governments belong in the business of providing access to ALL citizens of a community. The local community can then decide if they want to pay for a "gravel road" or "superhighway."

goinglike60

join:2009-02-10
reply to S_engineer

who should do mapping????

A university.

goinglike60

join:2009-02-10
reply to Mr Fel

Wireless High Speed???

If you are thinking of today's technology, you might be right about never getting 100% coverage. But if Kansas is offering WiMax, Kentucky should be able to handle it also. »tinyurl.com/decdu4
Line of sight is no longer a restriction...

Rural Telephone Service Co. in Kansas said its Nex-Tech unit is readying the service for small cities in its Kansas service area that haven't been served by DSL, fiber, or other broadband technologies. Many of the towers for the service were installed in six to eight weeks by Redline Communications Group, the company said.

goinglike60

join:2009-02-10

No such thing as "BROADBAND"

It's an arcane term.

"Basic Broadband" is only 768K (FCC)

This is another trick Connect Kentucky and Connected Nation is trying to pull. To every elected official, "broadband" sounds like it's fast, fast, fast, because they compare it to Dial-up.

If we can't change the conversation and talk specifics about download/upload speeds, let's at least call it "wideband" to refer to what we all enjoy: cable or T1 or better.


radiowebst
Brian Webster

join:2009-02-02
Cooperstown, NY
reply to Sammer

Re: For $350 Million data should belong to public!

And lets keep in mind a pdf map is not access to the data. The raw data and GIS files should be publicly available. All other mapping data paid for with US taxpayer money is available at no charge. Any information collected as a result of the funding should be the same. There are many ways to map this coverage without having to resort to a method where they must execute an NDA.

You can pick on Karl if you like, but in the end the real data needs to be public if funded by taxpayers. That way others may examine the information and or conduct their own studies. This argument of free access to the data has been in the GIS mapping industry for years. In the end the information is released with no strings attached. Fortunately with 350 million available, that is enough money to take on some of the labor intensive tasks that would be required to create a publicly available dataset that is accurate.

An easy fix for this problem would be to make sure that whomever receives this money will be required to release the raw data and GIS files, not just make some lame web interface that you can examine a single point or address at a time. If those conditions were in the terms of the funding, Connected Nation might not do the work.

SuperWISP

join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY

PK has been trashing Connected Nation for years

Public Knowledge -- an inside-the-Beltway lobbying organization funded by GoogleClick -- has long been trashing Connected Nation without good reason and merely seems to be continuing this vendetta (see »blog.apt.org/my_weblog/2008/01/d···-co.html for a history) with this latest salvo. Above all, it says, it doesn't want Connected Nation to do broadband mapping because it might keep some providers' private data, well, private.

There’s a good reason why ISPs — especially small, rural, and competitive ISPs — do not want precise maps of their coverage areas published: it enables anticompetitive tactics. Given detailed information about competitors’ coverage areas and sites (especially wireless ISPs’ towers), large incumbent carriers can precisely target anticompetitive tactics (e.g. predatory pricing, long term "lock in" contracts, etc.) at the areas which competitors serve, while not losing money on other areas. And since our country’s current broadband policy does nothing to aid these competitors in any way, they’re vulnerable. Want a duopoly? Gather competitive intelligence, at government expense, for the big guys — who will use it to wipe out all competitors. On the other hand, if you want users to have a choice of providers, or to foster the deployment of broadband to unserved or underserved areas, you’ll advocate exactly what "Connected Nation" does: map the general coverage areas but aggregate the information so that it cannot be used to harm competition. And keep the detailed, sensitive information that providers can't risk publishing under NDA. It just makes sense, and it's the only way to ensure that providers will be able to fully cooperate with a mapping effort.