 
Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
1 edit | So let me get this straight... ...his defense is "well yeah I did it, but everyone else is doing it!"
Good luck with that.
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Come let us reason together. | |
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 | quatrix
Premium
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL | Re: So let me get this straight... I doubt he can name any "Internet cafe" that's doing this without Comcast's knowledge and getting away with it. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: So let me get this straight... I suspect that those "Internet Cafe's" do not purchase residential service, and most likely business DSL or Cable.
Residential service typically states that the service is not for reselling or redistribution | |
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| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: So let me get this straight... said by en102  :I suspect that those "Internet Cafe's" do not purchase residential service, and most likely business DSL or Cable. Residential service typically states that the service is not for reselling or redistribution Even "Business" cable and DSL don't permit resale. You need carrier/enterprise grade connections, like T1s (which are invariably DSL today) if you want a TOS that allowed resale. | |
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GemSnake
Premium
join:2000-10-19
3rd layer
clubs:  | Re: So let me get this straight... It's all in the ToS | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| It's a civil case, they are suing for damages. If you knowingly share your service with your neighbors they can do the same to you. They won't because it looks bad to sue an individual and it wouldn't be worth the money.
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Come let us reason together. | |
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hootabius
join:2009-02-12
| No one said he was stealing - he is reselling a service that he does not have the right to resell. Much like how it's illegal to rebroadcast sporting events without the "expressed written consent of the [insert league name here]", or by purchasing a CD legally but then copying it and selling it. | |
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| | PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD | Re: Eyes on your Own Paper!! I forgot entirely about that specific. Good find. | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| said by funchords :Comcast, itself, used that defense for Sandvine RSTs in their FCC interference case last year. And that has to do with this case how?
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Come let us reason together. | |
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packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs:
 ·Optimum Online
| Re: Eyes on your Own Paper!! He is referring to the sandvine case that comcast said " everyone else is doing it" - in regards to illicit traffic shaping.
So the double standard needs to stop.
However, I think it's common sense that you can't resell your residential Internet access based on your TOS and AUP.
Secondly it's not theft. It's a contract violation and the only thing that should happen, all the modems should be bricked. He was paying for these accounts remember that.
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Reach out and Tap someone! | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
1 edit | Re: Eyes on your Own Paper!! said by packetscan :He is referring to the sandvine case that comcast said " everyone else is doing it" - in regards to illicit traffic shaping. So the double standard needs to stop. I know to what he refers and yes I agree that it is amusing but again:
What does that have to do with this case here?
The answer is it doesn't have anything to do with this case.
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Come let us reason together. | |
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| | jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
1 edit | As in a legal "case"? No, that was an administrative function and as everyone noticed didn't mean much of anything to anyone except BBR. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Coffee Shops I am guessing that for any retail establishment to do this, they would need to sign up with some sort of business ISP account that would allow for such a thing?
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03
·CableOne
| Re: Coffee Shops Yes, as far as I know. They'd need business class service, and probably have to pay extra for the option of making it available to others.
Starbucks doesn't just get a $40 residential account and hook it up to a wireless router (as this asshat is claiming; "he said Comcast signals are often used to power wireless networks at places like Internet cafes and other businesses that charge users for access"). They probably pay a couple benjamins for it. | |
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| | PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD | Re: Coffee Shops That is correct. I believe Starbucks used to use AT&T DSL lines for theirs. | |
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| | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | Re: Coffee Shops I doubt Starbucks uses DSL lines. They most likely use a T1 provided by ATT. Especially in many areas where ATT Wifi is offered DSL does not exist. | |
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| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Coffee Shops said by hottboiinnc :I doubt Starbucks uses DSL lines. They most likely use a T1 provided by ATT. Especially in many areas where ATT Wifi is offered DSL does not exist. I can personally verify that many of the Starbucks in my area are simply using a DSL service for their WiFi. | |
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| | | | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | Re: Coffee Shops again areas may differ depending on whats available. Try running DSL out in the middle the country where you're lucky if you get 14.5 on dial-up. You're not going to see DSL there. Especially the the only address within several miles. | |
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brandon
Some truth included in this post.
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Hurley, MS
 ·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Coffee Shops said by hottboiinnc :again areas may differ depending on whats available. Try running DSL out in the middle the country where you're lucky if you get 14.5 on dial-up. You're not going to see DSL there. Especially the the only address within several miles. And what would a Starbucks be doing there?
No "Starbucks on every corner" jokes. | |
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| | | | | | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | Re: Coffee Shops it's called a travel plaza. off the Ohio Turnpike. | |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL | Re: Coffee Shops And I bet that there is a town nearby that ATT services, so in turn would service the plaza. | |
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| | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| You're simply making the obvious point.. but I do believe it was said that they ALL used T1, or am I wrong? My point was that the information was incorrect.
Literal terms are not good to use when making posts..
Things like "no one likes that.." or "everyone's going to be.. " are just not accurate and bad to use when making points. | |
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jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ | Stealing? Give me a break. If the WISP is paying for the service then they are not stealing. Are they using their allotted bandwidth? Yes? So what.
If they are reselling service against Comcast's TOS then they should be disconnected. End of story. | |
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| | axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC | Re: Stealing? Give me a break. I don't think a ToS violation makes you liable for damages. Comcast can just end the contract and cut him off. Calling it stealing when he was paying full fare is ridiculous. How was Comcast damaged, exactly? | |
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| | wilburyan
join:2002-08-01 | TOS = Terms Of Service
Abide by the following rules and receive service, comcast is not liable for content... bla bla bla.
Yep... normally disconnecting would be appropriate route. | |
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| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| I suppose the same should be said for when it happens with Video services too? .. a simple disconnection? .. ignore the contract and the rules?
This argument is tiring to hear as a defense. We are a nation of rules and if you don't like them, then you have the right to fight to change them. To simply do as you please, snub your nose, and think you'll just get away with it and a simple slap, such as a disconnect, is a dangerous world you are wanting.
This is MOSTLY going to be a civil matter.. It would be a little different if the guy had residential services elsewhere, hooked up a business class line at buildings, MOVED his residential modems to the service points and sold service, well, then it would be criminal, most likely, as that would also be theft of service.
Comcast is going to win the case, hands down. | |
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jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ | Re: Stealing? Give me a break. In the case of video, the guy would be redistributing which is a criminal issue. The law is clear in this case.
Internet is another matter. | |
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| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Stealing? Give me a break. said by jjoshua :In the case of video, the guy would be redistributing which is a criminal issue. The law is clear in this case. Internet is another matter. No it's not. You're trying to make something black and white and it's not.
I understand that you're most likely someone that believes that TOS agreements are something to wipe one's rear, but they're not.
I spelled it out pretty clearly.... it's the same exact thing, in the end.. it's just covered under different laws and statutes. | |
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jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
1 edit | Re: Stealing? Give me a break. Show me the laws and statutes.
The AUP and TOS are not contracts. Comcast's recourse is to cancel the service and assess any applicable cancellation fees. | |
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| | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Stealing? Give me a break. I'm not going to do the leg work just becuase you say so. You can do it yourself and prove your side.
If you think that HSI is an anything goes kinda service, then please, demonstrate that to us.
You're very confused here in your thinking. There is a difference between criminal and civil.. however, a TOS/AUP is in fact an agreement.. break the agreement and see what happens.
You're also wrong in your thinking about everything having to be defined 'by a law' specifically. If you think that, you're be a fool for your own client. You are in fact entering an agreement by use of the service. If you violate those terms, they can exercise certain rights against you CLAIMED by the agreement that you two entered.
Not everything has to have a law, thank god. | |
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jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ | Re: Stealing? Give me a break. You're the one who made the claim. I assumed that you would know the laws and statues that you talk about. Otherwise, you are just blowing smoke. | |
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Achtzehn
join:2002-04-14
Downey, CA
| shame It's a shame;
This guy is just trying to give a service that Comcast obviously is not offering in the area, and now he's going to get slammed for it and the customers are going to lose their wireless.
The people lose, a crappy ISP gets richer. | |
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K Patterson
Premium,MVM
join:2006-03-12
Columbus, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| What did Comcast know, and when? I am not an attorney, but:
There is a concept called laches. If you have a right and don't take prompt steps to enforce it, you may be barred at a later date from doing so.
When did Comcast learn he was doing this? Where did he find space to locate these modems at the condos/apartments that wouldn't raise eyebrows at Comcast?
He's guilty as hell if these are truly residential accounts, but he might get away with it. He certainly is not going to be allowed to continue the accounts at residential pricing. | |
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dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
| he should read his TOS no ISP allows you to resell your bandwidth unless you are on a wholesale account (and no this is not a business account it is an enterprise level account).
It is not just about the bandwidth. There are also federal fees and regulations that Comcast must abide by. You can't have just every guy on the corner offering Internet access. These things are highly regulated (think about Child porn and violations of the patriot act on unregulated networks). | |
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avd706
insert annoying animated gif here
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Union, NJ | AUP TOS Does violating the TOS or AUP open you up to civil penalties? | |
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gar187er
Premium Alcoholic
join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE | red dot i wish that stupid red dot on watchtower would go away....been staring at it for about 2 weeks now....thanks clark... | |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| Comcast Also at Fault Comcast is also at fault with this. If you call Comcast Business services they tell you that you CAN RESELL Business Class Services. One rep even says that "it depends on how you interpret the AUP/TOS".
Sounds like Comcast needs to train their reps better because nobody knows anything. | |
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JJV
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Seattle, WA
clubs: | Cap? I wonder how he managed this with out hitting Comcasts bandwidth cap?
It seems like he would get all sorts of mpaa and riaa warnings too. | |
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onemetalhead
join:2007-05-20
Commerce, TX
·Embarq
| resale yes Maybe not the way he's doing it but for instance look at airimba wireless. They buy static ip's put modem to bridge ip's in there equipment and push it out through there wireless in turn reselling it. From what I understand since they are using there own equipment its legal at least through Embarq, which clause may be diff. than stingycapcom. | |
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CanuckIT
@look.ca | OceanNet busted what I would like to know is how he bound the pipes together Kodus to creativity. I guess his lights are out now. | |
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| Gerryw
join:2009-03-13
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: OceanNet busted Can someone explain something to me that has always baffled me...
What is the difference between business and residential dsl service???? Are the lines gold plated or something?
It is just like the telco's that charge higher long distance rates between 9 am and 5pm, because somehow it costs more during that time period. | |
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cameronsfx
join:2009-01-08
Pensacola, FL
·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: OceanNet busted said by Gerryw :Can someone explain something to me that has always baffled me... What is the difference between business and residential dsl service???? Are the lines gold plated or something? It is just like the telco's that charge higher long distance rates between 9 am and 5pm, because somehow it costs more during that time period. Business users usually have an SLA agreement. Service Level Agreements require the ISP to fix it pronto. A T1 for example starts getting credits after 4 hours of downtime.
Cox business has techs that fix it day and night unless some maintenance thing is going on. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| usually it is the service agreement. home service for exmaple if it goes down it is not mission critical and the cable company/phone company gets someone out there for "next available" business class usually it is same day with in a few hours.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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flyer22
@usgs.gov
| I have done this. I wired a 37 unit condo with phoneline networking using a business class DSL. I didn't scrutinize the TOS, but I did ask the customer service and they said no problem.
One way he could get around this is to do the install and maintenance, and have the building pay for the bandwidth. They would then provide it as an amenity. They would no more be selling bandwidth, than they would be selling electricity or gardening services, or any other common use amenity. Another way of looking at it is to forget that it is residential and imagine the building is an office or a hotel. Clearly that would not be illegal to provide internet services to tenants or guests.
He would need a business class service though. | |
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carpent480
join:2007-01-16
O Fallon, IL | LOl look at his website This guy is boned he is doing this all over the country if the locations he claims are correct and involving the owners in it so in all have a feeling he is boned big time | |
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Facekhan
join:2002-05-01
Gaithersburg, MD
| There probably is no actual contract. He could probably argue that what he is selling is access to the WiFi not the internet access itself.
Also it is unlikely he signed or even acknowledged the TOS. This is not the same as rebroadcasting the radio or tv or cable tv since that involves copyright violations. Comcast usually does not require contracts for residential or business cable internet service so I doubt there is actually a signed contract.
Comcast should just cut him off if he bought residential or non-resellable service.
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FaceKhanCitizen Khan dot com | |
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tango65536
join:2001-12-26
Catonsville, MD
clubs:
| So this is the guy.. I remember being down Ocean City and looking for a wifi signal. He had tons of theses routers with the good old standard "linksys" as there SSID. So I clicked on one of them because it wasn't secure and low and behold.. His walled garden asking for membership information. I'm glad he got busted! 
I resorted to tethering my phone anyway. I was just looking for something a little more simple at the time.
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Team Discovery | |
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