majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
1 edit | hmm
IT depends on which cable company. Isnt cablevision spending something like only 300 million to deploy docsis 3 and wifi?
Sorry got the figure wrong. |
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OOL Tech1234
@cromptoncorp.com
| YuP! Definitely Cablevision isn't the bad cable provider. They offer great speeds, a good rate and alots to offer. If only Cablevision were to expand, they would definitely steal all of TWC and Comcast customers  One can only hope. |
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highhorse
@rr.com | Ego
This guys is on such a high horse it's unbelievable. |
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dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
 ·Covad Communications
| hold on a minute Verizon
Let's not forget that the reason copper (DSL) is coming to end is that telcos failed to keep up with the maintenance of it and redirect resources to fiber rollouts. Cable companies on the other hand are usually not as old and most cable companies have a fiber backbone. So if the cable companies wanted to end of life cable, they could in theory run fiber to the home as well. With Docsis 3.0 there is a lot of bandwidth to grow into. So spending the money now is probably not a smart business decision. Sorry Verizon. What do your stock holders think of losing so much money to run fiber to each home? |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to OOL Tech1234
Re: hmm
said by OOL Tech1234 :YuP! Definitely Cablevision isn't the bad cable provider. They offer great speeds, a good rate and alots to offer. If only Cablevision were to expand, they would definitely steal all of TWC and Comcast customers One can only hope. Cablevision was bought out in most areas. We used to be Cablevision back in the mid-late 80's here. Time Warner bought them.
What I think is interesting, is the belief that it's easier to deploy to a smaller geographic area. Cablevision could be considered proof of that. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| reply to highhorse
Re: Ego
Yeah right?
The limitations of coax - so why is the connaction between the ONT and the Actiontec done with MoCA, and why is FiOS using cable TV technology to deliver FiOS TV?
Why did FiOS have to drop analog from its TV service? Were they running out of bandwidth like they are throwing pot shots at the cable company for doing? |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to dcdeadbeat
Re: hold on a minute Verizon
While FiOS is expensive and slow to deploy, it offers a significant advantage to any current technology that cable is using, including DOCSIS 3.0.
The full potential of DOCSIS 3.0 is nowhere near what can be offered with a "best effort" FTTP service. But this is like a bidding war at an auction, and Verizon is not going to throw all of their money out there at once when they only have to best, by a smidgen, the last bid made. Unless cable technology has a significant breakthrough, or they themselves spend a ton of money getting fiber to the "last mile", they are going to have to run to the ATM machine several times during this auction before they get to the same level of service the FiOS GPON's potentially offer now.
It's great for many consumers to see this struggle for supremacy between the telco and cable giants. This is especially true now that both phone and TV service are competing on both sides of the fence. While the prices have not come down, at least the technology has greatly improved, at least for a few of us. |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
1 edit | reply to Eat Me
Re: Ego
said by Eat Me  :Yeah right? The limitations of coax - so why is the connaction between the ONT and the Actiontec done with MoCA, and why is FiOS using cable TV technology to deliver FiOS TV? Why did FiOS have to drop analog from its TV service? Were they running out of bandwidth like they are throwing pot shots at the cable company for doing? Guess you never heard of this thing called physics and signal degradation ?
Moca is done only to give the box low bandwidth usage. Perfectly fine. Especially when you control such a short piece of copper.
Ever see the limitations of ethernet on a long run of cat6 ?
Fios dropped analog because they know it was a waste of bandwidth or were willing to take the shot to get rid of the filthy whore that analog transmissions in general are. Plus the fcc gave them a wide open window to do so.
If you look at the fiber specs for the equipment they used , they are definitely not near running out of bandwidth , for them its as easy as adding another shade and using a newer ont on new subs homes.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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CurGeorge8
join:2005-05-02
Pittsburgh, PA
| reply to dcdeadbeat
Re: hold on a minute Verizon
said by dcdeadbeat :Let's not forget that the reason copper (DSL) is coming to end is that telcos failed to keep up with the maintenance of it and redirect resources to fiber rollouts. Cable companies on the other hand are usually not as old and most cable companies have a fiber backbone. So if the cable companies wanted to end of life cable, they could in theory run fiber to the home as well. With Docsis 3.0 there is a lot of bandwidth to grow into. So spending the money now is probably not a smart business decision. Sorry Verizon. What do your stock holders think of losing so much money to run fiber to each home? Are you serious? That's like saying the horse & buggy industry died because they failed to keep up with the current technology (automobile). The fact is, they couldn't keep up, something completely new and revolutionary completely changed the way our society functions. The only thing they could do was to start making automobiles (which many did). The companies that adapted thrived, the ones that didn't failed.
VZ knew the technological limitations of twisted pair copper when compared to coax and emerging wireless technologies. They (and to extent, AT&T) saw the writing on the wall and realized that in a few years, no one would be buying horse & buggies anymore. 5Mbps internet is quickly becoming norm. I'm interested to see what happens to companies like Qwest, Embarq, and other smaller operators fare in the coming years. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
1 edit | reply to BosstonesOwn
Re: Ego
said by BosstonesOwn :
Guess you never heard of this thing called physics and signal degradation ?
Signal degradation has zero to do with available bandwidth.
quote:
If you look at the fiber specs for the equipment they used , they are definitely not near running out of bandwidth , for them its as easy as adding another shade and using a newer ont on new subs homes.
Which costs money. They are already in the hole $8000 per sub. |
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a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
 ·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Eat Me
The connection between the ONT and Actiontec are in fact done with MoCA, but remember, that coax is a direct line between the two devices... unlike the shared coax that serves hundreds of people with BOTH data and TV service. No one argues that coax has plenty of bandwidth...it's just that coax doesn't have quite the amount of bandwidth to share amongst entire neighborhoods. i.e. a coax connection between the ONT and router is more than sufficient to serve as a link between the two devices, but may not be nearly enough to serve hundreds of people concurrently.
And btw, a fun fact about the use of "cable" topology in VZ's network: Verizon squeezes that entire cable/video signal onto ONE wavelength. The bandwidth on that wavelength is usually just shy of the TOTAL bandwidth available on the outside plant of most cable networks. On FiOS, it's just one of the multitudes of lambdas they could use. Not to mention, this means there is a HUGE amount of room for data/IPTV/VOD.
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vzguy1
@bellatlantic.COM
| reply to Eat Me
said by Eat Me : said by BosstonesOwn :
Guess you never heard of this thing called physics and signal degradation ?
Signal degradation has zero to do with available bandwidth. quote:
If you look at the fiber specs for the equipment they used , they are definitely not near running out of bandwidth , for them its as easy as adding another shade and using a newer ont on new subs homes.
Which costs money. They are already in the hole $8000 per sub.
Ha! where did you come up with that number? It's not even close to what the actual cost are. In the beginning it was never that high. Fiber cost of been going down consistently and the cost to run fiber to a home is roughly $750. Nowhere near $8k |
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a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | reply to Eat Me
Actually, signal degradation indirectly causes a decrease in bandwidth... this is seen in both twisted pair (DSL) and coax (DOCSIS). In twisted pair, as distance decreases, signal degradation drastically increases at higher frequencies, effectively eliminating/attenuating them. And obviously, having your range of available frequencies reduced lowers your equivalent bandwidth by quite a bit, following Shannon's Law. This is kinda the reason DSL suffers on long telephone loops. Add in stuff like load coils/bridge taps and you're in trouble.
In coax, short runs usually don't show much of signal degradation, but on long runs with tons of splitters and old cabling, attenuation/noise can sometimes reduce the available bandwidth noticeably. Not to mention, some of the higher frequencies can also be attenuated, and end up having their energy converted to heat in the coax... this has happened, and was actually a huge issue back when coax was being used in undersea cables (I'm talking way before fiber was even in the labs). They actually had to place inline amps every few miles to get around the effect, but this was a rather expensive solution. |
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submrge
join:2004-10-10
Mine Hill, NJ
| reply to BosstonesOwn
I'd be interested to know (if there are any VZ techs here) what the bandwith is in MHz from the ONT to the STB. I have a feeling it's *similar* to cable - (55 to 870 MHz for the forward signal).
If it is then they have similar issues that the cable co's do with bandwith. |
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a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY | Obviously, the bandwidth is the same as cables, but as my other post states, this bandwidth is being used to deliver video/data for ONE household, as opposed to serving hundreds of homes at the same time. |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
·Verizon FIOS
| Pot, kettle...
This guy = douche.
The copper phone line infrastructure is failing. Has been for years. But they still push it. Where is the 100% FiOS rollout? Still "cherrypickin". (But why not, it helps fun the little guy, when they eventually get there...2036...why that number is in my head, oh yeah, Twin towers...)
Anyway, they are still using the inside Coax for feeding the Fios end unit. If the STB was fiber direct, that would be a first!
Have a good weekend fellow DSLr's. Yay, TGIF!
--
Weeeeeeee! |
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MichaelWacey
OwlSaver
Premium
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| reply to submrge
Re: Ego
Cable systems use one Coax to deliver TV, Internet, and Phone service. So, they are all competing for the Coax Bandwidth.
In FiOS, the TV, Internet, and Phone service are all delivered over their own dedicated Fibre wavelength. In the home, Coax is used for TV and MOCA, Cat5/Cat6 is used for Internet, and Cat3 is used for phone. So, there is less contention for bandwidth.
A true comparison would require looking at the details from the Central Office/Head End out to the home. But, it seems to me that FiOS has much more room for growth. For example, I would expect that FiOS will always have more HD content that is at the same level of compression as the source. |
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PhoenixDown
-- Wants FIOS
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
clubs:  | reply to majortom1029
Re: hmm
Cablevision also owns Lightpath, a CLEC who - in limited markets - runs fiber to the prem for businesses.
I think it would be easier for Cablevision switch over to a 100% fiber network when the time comes. |
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majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
| reply to jmn1207
Re: hold on a minute Verizon
You do realise that cisco has docsis 3 equipment that is a stop gap measure to fttp right. So if the cablecompanies are playing their cards right when they want fttp there will be much less equipment to replace.
So it wont be as expensive for cable companies as you think. |
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majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
| also
Also this guy isnt taking into account the hardware from companies like cisco.
Cisco has docsis 3 equipment that can convert to fttp. IF cablecompanies use this equipment it will only really be a matter of changing the coax runs to fiber and the onts o neach house.
This also means that cablecompanies can start having a high end fttp package and a low and medium end coax package. |
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