DarkLogix
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX | Not more 1985
Emanuel Goldstein will save us |
|
tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
 ·Callcentric
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·FrontierNet Intern..
| public shame...?
While Congress frequently likes to talk about passing laws requiring that such systems be purely "opt in" for consumers, the collective lobbying muscle of both the telecom and marketing/advertising industries continually ensures this doesn't happen. In order to prevent such laws from passing, carriers like AT&T and Verizon are trying to push for a self-regulatory system whereby "public shame" would keep them honest about privacy violations.
"public shame" only works for those who have souls. should read:
self-regulatory system whereby "public shame" subscriber loss and lower shareholder returns would keep them honest about privacy violations.
q.
--
those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it... |
|
DarkLogix
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX | ya those soulless Lobbiest |
|
No to ESPN
@sbcglobal.net | Ministry Of Truth and Thought Police
Doesn't Santa Claus work for them? |
|
swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to tubbynet
Re: public shame...?
The only reason any industry ever tries to offer "self-regulation" is to preserve the power to do what the legislators propose to forbid.
The argument that a law is "unnecessary" because the proposed targets are supposedly going to behave is obviously illogical. If they aren't going to do X, then they won't be affected by a prohibition of X. If they object to a prohibition of X, it can only be because they want to do X.
BTW, the likes of Phorm and Nebu-ad - which offer ISPs a share of profits if the ISPs let the companies spy on the ISP's customers and sell targeted advertising - these companies' business model features not only wiretapping, but forgery as well - they actually tamper with data on its way to or from the web users.
Making such conduct subject to fines is not enough - it should be a felony. |
|
SuperWISP
join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY
| Another anti-ISP article from Mr. Bode
Of course, being so sure that ISPs are fundamentally evil, Mr. Bode would never consider the notion that perhaps ISPs monitor their networks to ensure quality of service. Rather, they're doing e-vile spying and selling users' darkest secrets to the highest bidder, of course. |
|
DarkLogix
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX | you must be an enemy of the brotherhood and Mr. Goldstein |
|
tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
·Cox HSI
·Callcentric
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·FrontierNet Intern..
1 edit | reply to SuperWISP
said by SuperWISP  :Of course, being so sure that ISPs are fundamentally evil, Mr. Bode would never consider the notion that perhaps ISPs monitor their networks to ensure quality of service. Rather, they're doing e-vile spying and selling users' darkest secrets to the highest bidder, of course. of course, you are *blatantly* ignoring the fact that many isps have tried to do this (sell browsing history for money) already - british isp bt comes to mind.
of course, you only see what you want to see and have completely missed the first clause of the first sentence of the article posted
Deep packet inspection (DPI) has many legitimate uses on an ISP network
q. |
|
Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
·Time Warner Cable
·Time Warner VOIP
| reply to SuperWISP
said by SuperWISP :Of course, being so sure that ISPs are fundamentally evil, Mr. Bode would never consider the notion that perhaps ISPs monitor their networks to ensure quality of service. Rather, they're doing e-vile spying and selling users' darkest secrets to the highest bidder, of course. soon DPI will be useless by using strong encryption
--
April 2009 (Incoming: 172769 MB / Outgoing: 61092 MB) |
|
birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to SuperWISP
said by SuperWISP :Of course, being so sure that ISPs are fundamentally evil, Mr. Bode would never consider the notion that perhaps ISPs monitor their networks to ensure quality of service. Rather, they're doing e-vile spying and selling users' darkest secrets to the highest bidder, of course. And your implication that there is nothing wrong with DPI is the polar opposite. Quality of service? Joke! Sounds to me like you're in favor of revenue stream at any cost.
In the same category of Ma Bell's "reach out and touch someone." And you know where that brought us, don't you?
The incessant mosquito whine of telemarketers, among others. Futile slap against bloodsuckers only yields 1 in 10 gone splat.
Who thinks telemarketers add to the quality of phone service?
« crickets »
Anyone?
« crickets »
DPI is in the same category. Claiming it's needed for network management, while masking the real reasons ISPs are wetting their pants to put it in place.
Nothing good will come from DPI.  |
|
k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
| reply to Anonymous_
said by Anonymous_ :said by SuperWISP :Of course, being so sure that ISPs are fundamentally evil, Mr. Bode would never consider the notion that perhaps ISPs monitor their networks to ensure quality of service. Rather, they're doing e-vile spying and selling users' darkest secrets to the highest bidder, of course. soon DPI will be useless by using strong encryption ISP to customer: "Why was every single one of your packets encrypted?"
Customer to ISP: "None of your damn business!  *happy face*" |
|
bgraham
join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY
·Verizon FIOS
| Who in Congress can understand anything technical anyway.
ISPs' or anyone making a buck from deep packet inspection will have an easy job convincing congress or any politicians that this is a good thing.
Lobbying with a big wad of $$$'s for a re election campaign to a politician who cannot understand how a cork screw works is a breeze. Tell Andrew Cuomo in New York that it will stop kiddie porn is another sure way to get what the lobbyists want. |
|
birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Anon
Re: Another anti-ISP article from Mr. Bode
said by SuperWISP :"birdfeedr," it sounds as if your name should really be "bird brain." Well, I guess that sets the tone for discourse from you. I apologize for whatever I said to merit that response. I thought I made a couple of valid points. Maybe with a little flair, but valid nonetheless.
said by SuperWISP :Go ahead: go to an ISP that doesn't understand how to monitor its network. You'll get what you deserve: poor service. I'm noting your use of "monitor". That's a major part of arguments against DPI.
I accept, as does Karl, that there may be a positive use for DPI. Let's call it "management". So far, DPI management is innocuous until it is used to deny subscribers use of the system as it is marketed. I am not arguing for or against caps or throttling. That's a different issue.
If an ISP plans on using DPI, and can assure it's subscribers how it will be used, and for what purpose, and can assure it will not be used for as-yet unspecified purposes, maybe i can make an informed decision.
But, answer me this, why is it that the major ISPs already have in place language in their TOS that says they may use traffic for third-party use?
Trust me, management is the code word justification for the real desire. Revenue stream. |
|
mod_wastrel
join:2008-03-28
·magicjack.com
| reply to Anon
You don't need to know anything about the user data in packets to effectively monitor and manage any network.
Of course, when you resort to personal attacks on those who disagree with you, you obviously must be clueless to begin with... so, you're what? 8? |
|
james
join:2001-02-26
antarctica | But then again, Big Brother probably used lawnmowers, too...
*looks nervously at lawnmower* |
|
SuperWISP
join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY
1 edit | reply to mod_wastrel
Re: Another anti-ISP article from Mr. Bode
"My computer says it can't find thisparticulardomain.com."
"I'm trying to reach this Web site, but all I'm getting is a blank page."
"My computer is acting funny. Does it have a Trojan horse program in it that's sending out spam or something?"
"Is my computer infected with the Slammer worm?"
"Tech support? My connection is slow. Is my son running that illegal nut-teller program again?"
...
"Sorry, but we can't help you. Congress outlawed the basic network administration tools that would allow us to look at network traffic in detail and tell you." |
|
Aozora
join:2008-11-28
·Comcast
2 edits | reply to SuperWISP
said by SuperWISP :Of course, being so sure that ISPs are fundamentally evil, Mr. Bode would never consider the notion that perhaps ISPs monitor their networks to ensure quality of service. Rather, they're doing e-vile spying and selling users' darkest secrets to the highest bidder, of course. That will be the day I see elephants flying incredibly fast through my window.
You do not have to be cynical to see reality. Next you are going to say the ISP was spoofing packets to ensure my safety too. |
|
SaveTheNet
join:2009-04-17
·TekSavvy Solutions..
4 edits | So did hitler
But should we just ignore what Hitler did, just because he too had a lawnmower.
Hitler also ate food just like us and believed in a better world.
But should we just ignore it.
As much good could come from DPI , 1000x as much bad could come from DPI
Should we all just blindly trust those, who have already lost our trust.
Traffic shaping can be summed up best with this.
"Throttling will only ever have one purpose.
When a company cannot afford to upgrade their networks and must deceive their customers into believing they are getting an upgrade in speed.
When that is not actually possible and to appear to be competitive in a market they cannot compete in."
and that ^ is the best thing that can come from DPI, if you can even consider that good. |
|
birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to SuperWISP
Re: Another anti-ISP article from Mr. Bode
said by SuperWISP :1. "My computer says it can't find thisparticulardomain.com." 2. "I'm trying to reach this Web site, but all I'm getting is a blank page." 3. "My computer is acting funny. Does it have a Trojan horse program in it that's sending out spam or something?" 4. "Is my computer infected with the Slammer worm?" 5. "Tech support? My connection is slow. Is my son running that illegal nut-teller program again?" ... 6. "Sorry, but we can't help you. Congress outlawed the basic network administration tools that would allow us to look at network traffic in detail and tell you." 1. Reboot your modem/router then try again.
2. Reboot your computer then try again.
3. Call our premium support helpline for $19.95 per incident.
4. Call our premium support helpline for $19.95 per incident.
5. Our system shows you are getting the bandwidth you are provisioned for. Service is "up to x/y mbps." Reboot your computer and try again.
6. In order to answer your questions, we can run some system tools that will look at all the data that's crossing your modem. It might show some sensitive data such as passwords and accounts. Will you authorize us to use these tools to diagnose your connection? You may terminate the diagnostic sesion at any time. We cannot initiate it without your permission.
SuperWISP. I get your point. I've never invalidated your point of view. Sometimes it is possible to solve network problems by looking closely atthe packets. I've worked with CommView and Wireshark to analyse and solve problems.
1 to 5 are typical tech support at the level 1. If you get past that level, something like 6 becomes operative. I've called for tech support, and this is real world experience.
You're talking about tech support. Karl's article, plus the referenced WSJ article are talking about something else entirely.
quote:
The negative uses of DPI have led to hearings this week in Washington exploring how broadband ISPs use the technology, and whether stronger privacy guidelines are needed.
quote:
The focus of the hearing was on new efforts by Internet providers to collect and share data on consumers' behavior to target online advertising and by cable companies to target ads at subscribers via their set-top boxes.
Are you sure you understand what I am talking about?
We're not on the same page, and there's no requirement to do so. But man, I don't think we're in the same library. If ya know what I mean. |
|
