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Comments on news posted 2009-05-06 10:03:30: While 100Mbps just became the high broadband watermark here in the States, Virgin Media in the UK is already testing 200Mbps DOCSIS 3.0 cable connectivity, according to the Financial Times and the Guardian. ..


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium Member
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX

DarkLogix

Premium Member

Hurry up and get here

I want 200Mbps
NbWY1
join:2003-05-23
Columbia, MD

NbWY1

Member

Cable gone wild
glinc
join:2009-04-07
New York, NY

glinc

Member

meh!

FiOS can do 400Mbps!!!

savaged
@drkw.com

savaged

Anon

200 what about 10??

Virgin Media - moving ahead but not finishing the job first. I don't think I'm alone in having problems getting the bandwidth promised. How about they get what they sell now working before doing the next thing. I've had an average less than 2Mbps since starting to pay for 10Mbps three months ago! Infrastructural issues are the cause according to their technical support team. With no fixed dates promised for correction.
BT sent me a cocky letter when I switch from them to virgin media, saying I'd regret it. Guess what, they were right.

Madness
Like a flea circus at a dog show
join:2000-01-05
Lynn, MA

Madness

Member

Geez

Regardless, one is still limited to whatever speed one can get out of the sending server.
psbny
join:2002-01-06
Peekskill, NY

1 edit

psbny to glinc

Member

to glinc

Re: meh!

if fios were to use the same architecture as cable aka shared service they could do 622/155Mb/s with bpon and 2.4/1.2Gb/s with gpon

edit: and that would be for each 32 customers not 250-500

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

jmn1207 to Madness

Premium Member

to Madness

Re: Geez

said by Madness:

Regardless, one is still limited to whatever speed one can get out of the sending server.
One might be limited to a single server, or to perhaps several servers. There is also the possibility of having multiple users.

right
@63.163.65.x

right to Madness

Anon

to Madness
But if you are doing some type of conferencing or VPN with another network that runs at the same speed, it feel like being on a LAN. It would also help for networks which have more than one computer.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

LOL throttling time

Your speeds are useless. with 20mbit plan,

(20/8)*60*60*24*31 = ~6700 GB unthrottled

(20/8)*60*60*11*31 = ~3070 GB per month off peak usage
+
3*31=93 peak GB (much worse than Comcast's rarely enforced 250GB), just 20 mins of flooring your 20mbit connection (3000/(20/8)/60=20)

3070GB offpeak +
or assuming you go over the cap and try to floor it
((11*60)-20[mins of full speed time])*60*(20/8)*.75[throttle]*31[days]*(1/1024)=2200GB per month throttled peak
+93GB unthrottled peak

for a total of 5170GB per month, which means you lost 20% 1-((2300+3070)/6700) of your thearetical bandwidth to throttling
quote:
Bandwidth throttling

The cable broadband services do not have a specific bandwidth cap; however, on 3 May 2007 Virgin introduced "Subscriber Traffic Management" (STM). In particular, between the hours of 10am and 9pm the service provider may throttle down bandwidth for customers "downloading an unusually large amount at these times" (in line with one's package: 500 MB for the 2 Mbit/s package, 2000 MB for the 10 Mbit/s package and 3 GB for the 20 Mbit/s package) such that the speed of one's connection will decrease. To put this into perspective, a 20Mbit/s user is likely to trigger throttling if they download at full speed for approximately 22 minutes during peak hours. According to Virgin Media, this scheme aims to regulate bandwidth usage and to ensure that all customers get a fair share of the service provided. The scheme has been criticised as being overly punitive. Once the download limit is exceeded, the bandwidth throttle remains in place for 5 hours. The actual speed decrease depends on the package subscribed to, and ranges from a 50% reduction for the 2 Mbit/s to a 75% reduction for all others. [54]

A user on the 2Mb package will currently be throttled to 1 Mbit/s (50%) after downloading 500MB between the 4pm and 9pm "peak" window [54].

Virgin Media broadband, based on DOCSIS, runs over coaxial cable television connections in those areas with Cable TV and ADSL lines in areas that do not. Unlike ADSL connections, DOCSIS-based cable broadband remains largely unaffected by line attenuation, and provides long lease-time dynamic (not static) IP addresses to subscribers (based on the MAC address of the client device).

Virgin Media reportedly started conducting trials of a 100 Mbit/s broadband service on its cable network in April 2006.[55][56]

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi ··· rottling
Araiden
join:2008-04-12

1 edit

Araiden to Madness

Member

to Madness

Re: Geez

Well, that's considering your only accessing one thing or one server. What about people with home networks, boxes that can stream hd movies, netflix, amazon etc. You can have up to 4 boxes per house. That doesn't include gaming, people surfing the web, downloading things. It's definately over kill at this point but I could probably use a 20 meg connection in my house with all the stuff going on we love the internet. And as bandwidth increases you will see more and more things there to take advantage of all that bandwidth. I for one am excited to see companies offering speeds like this.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

SimbaSeven to glinc

Member

to glinc

Re: meh!

The problem is..

Will Verizon actually offer those speeds?
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88 to right

Member

to right

Re: Geez

said by right :

But if you are doing some type of conferencing or VPN with another network that runs at the same speed, it feel like being on a LAN. It would also help for networks which have more than one computer.
Whats the upload? Internet says the upload for any single TCP download is 3% of the download speed/data.
200*.03=6mbps, not good news.
dlewis23
join:2005-04-18
Boca Raton, FL

dlewis23

Member

Can servers provide it?

Short answer NO.

At the moment 200 Mbps internet anything is pretty much useless because most servers can't provide it as they are only connected at 100 Mbps. Even servers with a 1 Gbps connection could then only have 5 people downloading at max speed at any one time.

This also sucks at the server end because computers that have this connection that get taken over can now take down the average server by them selves.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

wifi4milez

Member

said by dlewis23:

Short answer NO.

At the moment 200 Mbps internet anything is pretty much useless because most servers can't provide it as they are only connected at 100 Mbps.
Some are connected at 100Mbps, however most are connected at 10Mbps or less. Sure its cool to have 200Mbps (yes, I would want it) however as pointed out its nothing more than bragging rights at this point.

jadebangle
Premium Member
join:2007-05-22
00000

jadebangle

Premium Member

If I could get 100mbps for 89.99 a month that would be the best thing in life...
50mbps for 49.99 a month will do as well...
Its not just speed the price as to be right too

jlivingood
Premium Member
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA

jlivingood to dlewis23

Premium Member

to dlewis23
said by dlewis23:

Short answer NO.

At the moment 200 Mbps internet anything is pretty much useless because most servers can't provide it as they are only connected at 100 Mbps. Even servers with a 1 Gbps connection could then only have 5 people downloading at max speed at any one time.

This also sucks at the server end because computers that have this connection that get taken over can now take down the average server by them selves.
The other interesting question apart from servers at one end and the access network at the other end is the (1) regional networks that are traversed and (2) backbone links that are traversed. Both of those need enough capacity as well.

While it is interesting to hear of something like 200Mbps or 300Mbps or whatever, if you aggregate all of those customers into a 1G or 10G regional network, it's not so meaningful. Thus, access network speeds need to be matched to regional and backbone capacity in addition to the capacity of the servers someone is trying to reach.
Filoteu
join:2004-02-12
Ohio

Filoteu to dlewis23

Member

to dlewis23
It's not useless. Imagine a family of five or six that are heavy leechers. Simultaneous maxed out downloads happening at the same time would saturate that pipe.

Ikyuao
join:2007-02-26
Wichita, KS

1 edit

Ikyuao

Member

TCP memory buffer issue

This won't give you lots of bandwidth unless you need set up a special TCP memory buffer be very large in order to have efficient bandwidth use so on vista with TCP normal parameter setting will give you lots of bandwidth speed as well as linux does that too so however server TCP buffer need be set up be large in order to provide physical 100 Mbits bandwidth or more bandwidth at long distance link of internet networks as well as clients needs be to have large TCP memory buffer too also.

And DOCSIS does not control buffer nor does not manage any TCP sessions so responsible is up to operating system and user as well.

anonbandwidthhog
@solidspace.com

anonbandwidthhog to Araiden

Anon

to Araiden

Re: Geez

Right, I am on a 30/5 connection via cablevision
and I routinely max out the upload and I have maxed out the download a number of times, usage in the 20-30mbit range are common for me.

It's not about single transfers but entire network usage.
I have 3 desktops
1 media server,
PS3
XBOX360 with netflix streaming/xbox live
plus a laptop and multiple users.

they are going to offer 100/15 and if I had the extra cash I'd get it

how knows I might get it anyway lol

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine to psbny

Member

to psbny

Re: meh!

said by psbny:

if fios were to use the same architecture as cable aka shared service they could do 622/155Mb/s with bpon and 2.4/1.2Gb/s with gpon

edit: and that would be for each 32 customers not 250-500
Shared among 32 customers, 2.4Gbps GPON is around 400-480Mbps.

FastiBook
join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA

FastiBook to glinc

Member

to glinc
In my area the number of lines to backbone per user i've been told is capable of faster than that. In fact, they could do gigabit for 2% of customers while keeping everyone else at the current tiers.

The conduit pipes they use to connect the curbside boxes to each other and to the nodes are 4 inch diameter, the wires they use between boxes are quarter inch by 8th inch. You do the math.

- A
ViRGE
join:2002-10-25

ViRGE

Member

How Does 200Mbps Work Exactly?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought DOCSIS 3 could only bond up to 4 channels. 38x4 is 152Mbps, not 200Mbps.
jpr281
join:2006-01-12
Shirley, NY

jpr281

Member

said by ViRGE:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought DOCSIS 3 could only bond up to 4 channels. 38x4 is 152Mbps, not 200Mbps.
Europe has a different DOCSIS than the US.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DO ··· ed_Table
mc5w
join:2002-06-14
Columbus, OH

mc5w

Member

Yeah Right

One problem is that you would need at least a 3 trillion instruction per second supercomputer just to run an antivirus program that processes 200 Mbps.

So, you have bottlenecks at both ends. Now all I have to do is overcome the $0 per hour bottleneck and move out of my siste's house.

The matter that viruses drive CPU upgrades is out of hand. What some IT professionals tell me is that 90% of viruses come from Maxisquash er I mean Microsoft as that is how the H-1B people have been extorting green cards and citizenship from Uncle Sam. High Tech wanted people who are required by the government to work for the same company for 6 years and High Tech got what they wished for. High Tech should of been more careful of their wishes.

jap
Premium Member
join:2003-08-10
038xx

jap

Premium Member

upstream,upstream,upstream

All this talk about mondofast downstream. Over, say, 30Mbps down I'm happy but I want it near symmetrical. 30/20 is far more appealing to me than 60/10.

Hpower
join:2000-06-08
Canyon Country, CA

1 edit

Hpower

Member

Yea seriously. I am tired of seeing 5000000/1 speeds. lol I would be much happier with 30/20 myself compared to 50/5. But, I guess its just cheaper for the ISP's stand point of providing faster download than upload. I remember when my friend had 512KBPS SDSL and I thought that was the way broadband should be
LiamCo
join:2009-05-02
Aurora, CO

1 edit

LiamCo to mc5w

Member

to mc5w

Re: Yeah Right

Not to sound rude but do you really understand what you are talking about? Antivirus programs don't inspect data bit by bit. They use virus definitions, to compare each file to known virus profiles. You wouldn't be doing realtime monitoring of the data as it's coming down the pipe. That's not what AV protection does. After each file is completed, that's when the virus scanner looks at it and sees if it fits a virus profile. The only way your av would be struggling to keep up is if hundreds of files were being downloaded per second, which doesn't make sense unless you are trying to download a book page by page or something.

If your theory were right, people with older computers wouldn't be able to download anything on a 10mbps connection, which obviously isn't the case.

I don't know where you get your information from, but it's flatout wrong. And the concept is flawed at the basic level of how virus scanning works.

Viruses have NEVER driven cpu upgrades. Data intensive applications like videogames and media creation programs do. Unless you are doing a full scan of your computer, virus programs take up a negligible amount of processing capacity, even when downloading large files at high speeds.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

SimbaSeven to FastiBook

Member

to FastiBook

Re: meh!

Multiple and/or redundant pipes to each node.

That makes sense. But when will they offer it?

Eagles1221
join:2009-04-29
Vincentown, NJ

Eagles1221 to LiamCo

Member

to LiamCo

Re: Yeah Right

Liam its possible to scan for virus patterns at wire speed. Some Cisco switches and my old Alteon firewall did it. As soon as it sees a pattern in the stream is turns off that connection - even before the file is done downloading.