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Comments on news posted 2009-05-26 11:04:57: Michael Lynton, CEO of Sony Pictures Entertainment, last week made waves by boldly proclaiming he "doesn’t see anything good having come from the Internet. ..
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Bit
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3 edits | Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? $310M so far, not counting merchandising, future DVD/Blu-Ray, online purchases or rentals, PPV, Pay-TV rights, free-TV rights, or even future box office. Star Wars Ep III had near DVD quality prints available on the internet and it too make ZILLIONS. Every movie that comes out is available via usenet or torrents yet the movie industry during a deflationary recession is doing record business.
Quit bitching about piracy...you make a good movie and it will make hundreds of millions.
And if there is nothing good coming from the Internet, I expect to see all advertising by Sony Pictures, including their website pulled by the end of the day. If it isn't, then he is nothing more but a typical hypocrite using the Internet to make millions every day.
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cdru
Go Colts
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| Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? said by Bit  :$310M so far, not counting merchandising, future DVD/Blu-Ray, online purchases or rentals, PPV, Pay-TV rights, free-TV rights, or even future box office. Star Wars Ep III had near DVD quality prints available on the internet and it too make ZILLIONS. Every movie that comes out is available via usenet or torrents yet the movie industry during a deflationary recession is doing record business. Yeah, but think of the billions it could have made had it not been leaked prior to it's release! | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
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Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
| Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? said by cdru :Yeah, but think of the billions it could have made had it not been leaked prior to it's release! The leak absolutely hurt sales. The only question is to what extent, but to think every single person who downloaded the movie went out and saw the movie is ludicrous. Even if it was a paltry $1M it lost worldwide, that is unacceptable. Would you be willing to give up $1M, even if you grossed $310M? I doubt it. | |
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tomkb
Premium
join:2000-11-15
Avon, OH
clubs: | Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? Maybe they should get some bailout money and a golden parachute. | |
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jhboricua
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Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
| said by Matt :Would you be willing to give up $1M, even if you grossed $310M? Absolutely yes. | |
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Matt
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| Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? said by jhboricua :said by Matt :Would you be willing to give up $1M, even if you grossed $310M? Absolutely yes. I somehow doubt you would willing let that $1M go to illegal means. You'd be on the phone with the FBI in a heartbeat. | |
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jhboricua
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| Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? said by Matt :I somehow doubt you would willing let that $1M go to illegal means. You'd be on the phone with the FBI in a heartbeat. I somehow doubt you're qualified to answer your question for me. I stand by my answer.
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Matt
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| Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? said by jhboricua :said by Matt :I somehow doubt you would willing let that $1M go to illegal means. You'd be on the phone with the FBI in a heartbeat. I somehow doubt you're qualified to answer your question for me. I stand by my answer. I am still entitled to my opinion however, and that opinion is if you were faced with that situation you would not let it go. | |
| | | | | | | | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? Some are not driven by greed and can see the cost of $1million to earn $310 million is simply that... a cost of earning $310million.
Do you want to reduce your cost so you can earn more? Sure, but there will ALWAYS be a cost to make money. They can probably earn everything they lose to pirating and then some by doing 2 things: 1.) Make a better movie 2.) Reduce the cost of making the movie to begin with. Cut all salaries by 10% and/or reduce the cost of movies to the consumer. They can actually control those 2 things. Distribution of content, they will never fully control. | |
| | | | | | | | k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
| said by Matt :said by jhboricua :said by Matt :I somehow doubt you would willing let that $1M go to illegal means. You'd be on the phone with the FBI in a heartbeat. I somehow doubt you're qualified to answer your question for me. I stand by my answer. I am still entitled to my opinion however, and that opinion is if you were faced with that situation you would not let it go. I agree with jhboricua, if you are that foolish to completely ignore the possibility of piracy then you probably shouldn't be selling or making whatever. Piracy is an animal that the more you try to control it, the more it just grows. If you really think you can sell something that wont ever be pirated (or 5 fingered) then I think you need a reality check because this isn't "Matt's honest world" where everyone is honest and never steal from anyone this is the real cut-throat world where your next door neighbor could be a drug dealer and your other neighbor could be a music pirate. Arggghhhh.... (attempt at pirate sounds)
As far as the music/movie industry is concerned, they are sitting on a gold mine. People want to purchase the media. But, convenience beats honesty any day. For example you are sitting in a hotel room - the bell hop says he can bring you breakfast/lunch/dinner to your room but its against the rules (the rules say you have to come down to get it yourself, and lets say your a cute blonde or something...) I would bet ANYONE would accept the offer. You would be foolish not to. I mean, someone bringing your meal to you? Duh!
Now lets look at how music/movies are being sold. I can either drive to the store, look through the selection, pick up the DVD, wait in line, and drive back home.
Or, just in about 5 clicks and 20 minutes have the movie downloaded. Best part - don't even have to leave my house or get out of my fuzzy slippers. Gee, let me think here.
This isn't rocket science, it's common sense.
They are starting to move towards it, but, the price models suck. By offering a download model the movie/music industry save a lot of money, but yet they still haven't figured out that they just need to LOWER the prices than what is in the stores then people will want to buy their stuff. Also, removing DRM is good direction to go. Really concerned about people copying your movie/music to different computers/devices? Don't make the movie. You can't stop piracy, you can only hinder it, and yet if you hinder it you only increase it. I'll bet that a good chunk of the people who torrent now probably would have never done it if the **AA didn't sue people. When you have words like "torrent" and "illegal downloading" in the news people will start to wonder and look it up.
But what do I know? | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| Who cares about Wolverine.... This clown is talking in much broader terms. His statement "Freedom without restraint is chaos, and if we don't figure out some way to prevent online chaos, the quantity, quality and availability of the kinds of entertainment, literature, art and scholarship we need to have a healthy, vibrant culture will suffer." speaks volumes about the entitlement attitude that these entertainment executives have!
Think of how many artist, bands, and actors suffered at the hands of the entertainment industries exclusivity. Monopolistic media outlets play the same drivel from crap artists because others are suppressed. Is there really any reason for britany spears to be on the airwaves? These people are clearly stating that they feel they are the only game in town...how Freakin arrogant is that?
Reality TV....John Mayer...movies like Demolition Man w/stallone and the Spiderman series....crap!
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sivran
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Arlington, TX
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| Speaking only of "illegal free downloads," I'd consider it marketing cost, and forget about it. Truly, I would worry more if my movie (software/music/book) weren't being pirated. (assuming I were a creator of such)
I don't download movies too often anymore, but I can name at least one that I torrented and then decided to see in the theater... er, ok, maybe I can't name it specifically. It was one of the new Batman movies. I forget which one.
Real piracy, as in the bootleg DVDs sold at bazaars around the world is a different matter altogether, IMO.
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jhboricua
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| said by Matt :I am still entitled to my opinion however, and that opinion is if you were faced with that situation you would not let it go. Your opinion is dead wrong.
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Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * | |
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DooD
join:2002-02-10
Jacksonville, FL
| said by jhboricua :said by Matt :I somehow doubt you would willing let that $1M go to illegal means. You'd be on the phone with the FBI in a heartbeat. I somehow doubt you're qualified to answer your question for me. I stand by my answer. Yyyaaaaa... I'm going to have to go with jhboricua on this one. Let me just make sure I have your scenario down in relative terms... If I were to see $3.10 on the ground.. but every time I went to pick it up a thief would steal 1 penny from my pocket, I'm pretty sure I'd do it and laugh the whole way to Wendy's. That's threeconomics baby! | |
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joako
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| said by Matt :said by jhboricua :said by Matt :Would you be willing to give up $1M, even if you grossed $310M? Absolutely yes. I somehow doubt you would willing let that $1M go to illegal means. You'd be on the phone with the FBI in a heartbeat. 0.3%? What's the typical shrinkage ratio in retail stores?
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| said by Matt :The leak absolutely hurt sales. Please prove that. Because I know for a FACT that the leak did not hurt sales in any way. In FACT it helped increase sales. | |
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Matt
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1 edit | Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? said by insomniac84 :said by Matt :The leak absolutely hurt sales. Please prove that. Because I know for a FACT that the leak did not hurt sales in any way. In FACT it helped increase sales. Because the companies and independent theaters say so. Please show me your facts that prove otherwise. I'm sure everyone (including Fox) would love to see these numbers and hard facts that would show them how to turn this piracy thing into a revenue generation scheme. If that were the case, don't you think they'd realize that by now? On one hand they are called greedy, yet on the other you say they are letting the potential to make more money slip past them. Which is it?
I am not denying that there is a very, very, small minority who really, truly, want to preview the movie or album before buying it. But the vast, vast majority of people who download movies and music illegally never intend to purchase it. I still think that is what movie trailers, reviews, and album previews are for. But I guess if it helps you sleep at night ...
When I was younger, I was heavily involved in the scene and out of the thousands of people I met, I can count on one hand the number of people who downloaded a movie (only crappy rips then) or a song and then went out and bought it.
While I personally don't care whether you steal a movie, or climb into the President of Fox Searchlight's house at night and take his cookie jar, stop lying about the reasons and trying to justify it with lame excuses. Be a man and say "I stole it because I don't like the price." or "I stole it because it's easier." | |
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Cheese
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Naples, FL
clubs:
| Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? said by Matt :said by insomniac84 :said by Matt :The leak absolutely hurt sales. Please prove that. Because I know for a FACT that the leak did not hurt sales in any way. In FACT it helped increase sales. Because the companies and independent theaters say so. Please show me your facts that prove otherwise. I'm sure everyone (including Fox) would love to see these numbers and hard facts that would show them how to turn this piracy thing into a revenue generation scheme. If that were the case, don't you think they'd realize that by now? On one hand they are called greedy, yet on the other you say they are letting the potential to make more money slip past them. Which is it? I am not denying that there is a very, very, small minority who really, truly, want to preview the movie or album before buying it. But the vast, vast majority of people who download movies and music illegally never intend to purchase it. I still think that is what movie trailers, reviews, and album previews are for. But I guess if it helps you sleep at night ... When I was younger, I was heavily involved in the scene and out of the thousands of people I met, I can count on one hand the number of people who downloaded a movie (only crappy rips then) or a song and then went out and bought it. While I personally don't care whether you steal a movie, or climb into the President of Fox Searchlight's house at night and take his cookie jar, stop lying about the reasons and trying to justify it with lame excuses. Be a man and say "I stole it because I don't like the price." or "I stole it because it's easier." "because the companies and independent theaters said so", wheres the facts to back this up? Without facts, what you said is all hearsay as well. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? said by Cheese :"because the companies and independent theaters said so", wheres the facts to back this up? Without facts, what you said is all hearsay as well. My point exactly. Sadly "Matt" didn't get it. | |
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CableConvert
Premium
join:2003-12-05
Atlanta, GA
| Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? The other thing you guys are missing is the ENORMOUS amount of FREE publicity this leak achieved for the movie. They could not have paid for that. I probably wouldn't have even known about the movie had it not been for that. The fact that such a fuss was made about it "leaking" out I can promise you created even MORE INTEREST in the movie. This most likely led more people to want to go out and see it. | |
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vzw emp
@qwest.net
| Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? From my humble point of view, how well a movie does in the theaters is directly proportional to how good or bad it happens to be. The same applies to music. Every movie the publice deems "good" has done well at the box office, despite piracy (i.e. Wolverine, Star Trek, Up will be huge, etc...).
Despite the industry's "outrage" over piracy, I believe it merely accelerates a natural process that has existed for years. I believe piracy merely accelerates the effect of "buzz" on films. Movies/music rely on word of mouth (the aforementioned "buzz"). Studios want people to see a movie and then go back to their friends and tell them how good it is so their friends, based on their recommendation, will go see it as well. But "buzz" is a double-edged sword. If someone goes to see a movie and thinks it's a huge steaming pile of dog droppings, they'll tell their friends that as well. This has happened for years, but usually it happened after a movie's release. Now piracy has made it possible to start this process before a film's release date.
Bottom line: It's a lot harder for a bad movie to rake in the cash on opening weekend because piracy reveals the studio's hand before the cash leaves yours. | |
| | | | | | DarkLogix
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX | The last movie I torrented it was because the store was sold out and I bought it at another store after the torrent finished and I had seen 5minutes
If I'm going to have to drive to two differant stores to buy a movie it better be worth it | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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Tulsa, OK
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| When you were younger, you had a lot less income to pay with, right? I know I did. Hell keeping the car running, paying insurance and gas seems like it took practically everything..... the result was, yeah, you didn't have a lot of money for movies, music, games, etc
Sure, you bought some, and you pirated more. (And "swapped" with your friends, right? The old-school version of P2P)
But let me ask you this: If you (and your buddies) had NOT pirated anything, would of this fact in ANY WAY increased your income and cash on hand so you spent more on movies, bought more games, bought more CD's etc and therefore gave these companies more profit?
No. You'd just of done without. Which is fine. I'm not saying "Piracy is ok if you're broke" but what I am trying to say is the hardline attitude of this CEO and others who think BECAUSE someone pirated something they lost a retail sale is pretty silly.
You can't "lose" money you never EARNED.
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tuaris
You Clicked on the Apple
join:2001-10-19
Naples, FL
| But the vast, vast majority of people who download movies and music illegally never intend to purchase it.
You just said all right their, piracy does not equal lost sales.
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| | | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
3 edits | said by Matt : ..But the vast, vast majority of people who download movies and music illegally never intend to purchase it. Thus by your own logic, they lost nothing. Since only if intent to purchase was curtailed is there a true loss to the producer. | |
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ohCrap
@ucdavis.edu
1 edit | Matt...you do realize that after the WorkPrint leaked that numerous posts and FREE publicity went out stating how good the movie was even without the special effects? You don't think that improved sales any? As a matter of fact, I noticed that less commercials went up about the movie...Meaning that they were relying on the pre-release to spread the word of the movie.
The Pre-release didn't hurt sales...It helped it. | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? said by ohCrap :
Matt...you do realize that after the WorkPrint leaked that numerous posts and FREE publicity went out stating how good the movie was even without the special effects? You don't think that improved sales any? As a matter of fact, I noticed that less commercials went up about the movie...Meaning that they were relying on the pre-release to spread the word of the movie.
The Pre-release didn't hurt sales...It helped it.
There were also claims that the "leak" was part of a stealth marketing campaign. What would be better/cheaper than to release a partial print and then start getting free advertising by complaining about it? | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| These are the same movie studios that claim that use "Hollywood Accounting" (see: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting ) to claim that movies which brought in hundreds of millions of dollars in box office revenues actually lost money.
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cdru
Go Colts
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join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| said by Matt :The leak absolutely hurt sales. The only question is to what extent, but to think every single person who downloaded the movie went out and saw the movie is ludicrous. To think that the majority of people who pirated it were going to go out and see it is equally ludicrous. Just like with CD sales, just because a copyrighted work is pirated doesn't mean that there is a sale that is lost.
Even if it was a paltry $1M it lost worldwide, that is unacceptable. Would you be willing to give up $1M, even if you grossed $310M? I doubt it. Yes. I'd file it under the cost of doing business and move on. That comes out to 3/10 of 1%. It will become an even smaller number as revenues increase. Fox puts the loss at $28m, a number that I don't believe but is still less then 10% of revenues.
I won't argue that pirating reduces the studios revenue. But I also am not going to shed a tear of sorrow for any studio. If you look at the top grossing movies of all time, 3/4 of the top 100 are within the last decade accounting for 3/4 of the revenue ($46b). Revenues haven't exactly been hurting due to piracy. The "arts" seem to have more then enough revenue to keep on going. | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? said by cdru :I won't argue that pirating reduces the studios revenue. But I also am not going to shed a tear of sorrow for any studio. If you look at the top grossing movies of all time, 3/4 of the top 100 are within the last decade accounting for 3/4 of the revenue ($46b). Revenues haven't exactly been hurting due to piracy. The "arts" seem to have more then enough revenue to keep on going. I looked at that table before since I figured the numbers were not valid for comparing gross receipts and I was correct. At the bottom of the table is this statement - "All amounts are in USA dollars and only include theatrical box office receipts (movie ticket sales) and do not include video rentals, television rights and other revenues. Totals may include theatrical re-release receipts. Figures are not adjusted for inflation. "
IOW: The figures are not valid for comparing movies that were released in different years (your statement says that 75% were released since 1999 if you count "last decade" as "last 10 years"). That last sentence that I made bold says that the numbers are going to make more recent moves LOOK like they made more money since due to inflation the same number of dollars means different amounts of real value depending on which year you are talking about. You either need to adjust for inflation OR use a constant unit of measure such as Tickets Sold (which would adjust for the real cost or actual price of the ticket vs the value of $1 at the time the ticket was sold/movie was shown).
I am also ignoring the question of if the gross receipts for two movies that were released and screened at the same time but had different ticket prices are a totally accurate measure. Do you count the receipts of a movie that is shown as both 3D and Non-3D (such as Monsters vs Aliens) or on Standard and IMAX as the same movie (thus making the gross from a 3D or IMAX showing contribute more than the same showing on a standard screen) or treat them as separate movies or list a sub-total for the premium version? The latter would option would show a total for gross earnings for rankings and then break down the different versions to show how they contributed to that total. | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? Here's a list that adjusts for inflation: »www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm
Of the top 50 films, only 5 were made after the year 2000. Of course, number 100 (Shrek The Third) made over $336 million, so I don't think studios are really hurting. (Hollywood Accounting notwithstanding.)
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? said by Jason Levine :Here's a list that adjusts for inflation: » www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htmOf the top 50 films, only 5 were made after the year 2000. Of course, number 100 (Shrek The Third) made over $336 million, so I don't think studios are really hurting. (Hollywood Accounting notwithstanding.) Thank you for posting that link. That listing is much more accurate than the other lists that assume that the value of the dollar is a constant and thus a movie whose gross is measured in 1939 $ and earned $X had the same earnings as a movie released in 2007 that earned $X (in 2007 dollars). Counting Average Ticket Prices (as that list does) is better since you are counting the number of times the movie was seen but still does not compensate for inflation (ie: The VALUE of the dollar). Just because you are multiplying the cost of a ticket by the number of tickets (and setting a constant price for all the tickets as an adjustment figure) you do not compensate for all of the difference in the value of the dollar. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by Matt :The leak absolutely hurt sales. Even if this is true, don't most "leaked" copies of movies come from screener copies sent to movie reviewers? Most of these screener copies are watermarked so that it is possible to tell from which original the copy was made.
Is Sony going after the people who leaked this movie? If not, why not?
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| | | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
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| Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? said by pnh102 :Even if this is true, don't most "leaked" copies of movies come from screener copies sent to movie reviewers? Most of these screener copies are watermarked so that it is possible to tell from which original the copy was made. Is Sony going after the people who leaked this movie? If not, why not? Of course not. These people are needed to get these movies into theaters.
Plus, screener copies (or booker copies) aren't completed movies. They are missing music, special effects and the audio and film polishing to make it look good. | |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| said by Matt :The leak absolutely hurt sales. The only question is to what extent, but to think every single person who downloaded the movie went out and saw the movie is ludicrous. Most likely true, although the internet isn't and never will be to blame for that.
People make the choice to upload it in the first place, and they aren't average joes out there doing that. It's someone who has access to that film beforehand.
Heck, it's also true that many don't go and see a film based solely on the trailer. If I don't like it in those couple of minutes or less, I won't go see it. Money "lost."
Anyway, just going out on some tirade about the Internet is old news and old tactic. Unless they plan on pulling all of their online presence I don't see them as being overly genuine here.
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? Which is why I think there's a shred of truth for both sides of that.
There very well could be some who saw it via DL and then didn't go see it. But...then again I could see the trailer and have the same reaction. NO SALE either way.
However, I know there are some folks out there who DL instead of going to a theater just because they can. So yea, there might be some sales loss there.
I just don't happen to think it's as large as they like to make it out to be.
Of course they never take economic situations into account either, in fact they ignore it and spin the results to their side of the story. Quite classic.
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TheGlobalMind.com / Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? / Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson / Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. | |
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Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
·VOIPo
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3 edits | Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? This leak made huge news...free publicity and advertising for the film.
Meanwhile this Sony hack says nothing good came from the Internet when Sony Pictures makes billions from their Internet related activities, particularly as an advertising vehicle for their big budget films which get their HYPE solely from the Internet buzz, trailers and screen-shot leaks.
This is just more of the same flawed logic that had movie studios in the 80's crying like school girls over home video, saying it will mean an end to the movie business. In reality it turned into a venue where movie studios can DOUBLE the revenues on a movie or give a box office bomb like Office Space an all new life.
Thankfully the Sony marketing department is far smarter than their idiot CEO.
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL | Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? Bingo. They just love to talk out of both sides of their mouths.
Cry "pirates" on one hand and rake in the publicity on the other.
And then you've got the shills who get on here & whine about piracy. | |
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lolwutanon
@suddenlink.net
| It absolutely hurt sales? You prove no details, facts, or figures but insist on speaking in absolutes. I, along with the entire movie making industry, are more then willing to give up 1m$ after grossing 310m. Clearly you aren't familar with hollywood accounting, 1 million is a triffle. And it wasn't an entire loss. It was in more ways then one, a form of marketing.
It is a given that not everyone who sees the movie online is going to go to the movies too, but the reverse is also the same. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be a dvd industry. Lots of people go to the movies for different reasons and it might not just be to see the movie. If guy A sees the movie online and tells person B about it, maybe A and B will go see it in the movies together the next day. Shazaam, 1 leaked vid turned into two sales.
Stop thinking in absolutes, presenting your opinions as facts, and generally arguing with fallacies. This isn't some kiddy forum for teenagers to debate warez and l33t haxx. We are mostly adults capable of rational thought and thinking outside the tiny little box the industry PR machine would love us to never escape.
Leaked vids result in both gains and losses, like any form of advertisement whether they are intentional or not. As the industry isn't no where near of being close to going out of business, then clearly pirating is not a big of a problem as people like Mr. Lynton are trying so desperately to imply. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| said by Matt :The leak absolutely hurt sales. And this theory is based on....
BTW - Pulling a stat out of your ass doesn't count.
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milnoc
join:2001-03-05
H3B
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by Matt :Would you be willing to give up $1M, even if you grossed $310M? Studios spend a lot more than that just to promote a movie. That 1 million could almost be categorized as a viral marketing budget, since it does attract more people to the theater. But is it enough to recuperate that 1 million? No one has ever bothered to check that out. | |
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Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
·VOIPo
·Cox HSI
3 edits | Re: Yeah and how much did Wolverine make? And they get millions to cross promote these movies. You think BK gets to put out Star Trek glasses or E-Surance use Star Trek in their advertising without consideration to Paramount?
These fast food chains alone spend zillions competing for lucrative promotional items to stick in kids meals. In response to BK's deal with Viacom-Paramount, McDonald's just inked a deal with 20th C Fox.
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POKE 65495,1 | |
| | | the cerberus
join:2007-10-16
Richmond Hill, ON
4 edits | said by cdru : Yeah, but think of the billions it could have made had it not been leaked prior to it's release!
Those dont exist. The leak did not hurt sales!! The people who download movies are never a lost sale, they never were a sale, they never intended on paying money to see the movie, and if they did, maybe they will after seeing if the movie is actually good. Kill Bill comes to mind. All my friends watched a screener 7 times, then went and saw it in theatres and bought the dvd. I might never have watched that movie otherwise. | |
| | jimbo2150
join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH
| said by Bit :$310M so far, not counting merchandising, future DVD/Blu-Ray, online purchases or rentals, PPV, Pay-TV rights, free-TV rights, or even future box office. Star Wars Ep III had near DVD quality prints available on the internet and it too make ZILLIONS. Every movie that comes out is available via usenet or torrents yet the movie industry during a deflationary recession is doing record business. Exactly, if anything pirating has become a form of free advertising for the movie/record industries. See a movie or hear song you like on bear/tor/light service? Go out and buy a copy from X retail or online store. I know I for one hate going out an buying something without hearing it or seeing it first. It's a real ripoff really to expect people to buy something they have no idea whether or not they will like it.
Also,
But what has happened online is that if it is 'beyond store hours' and the shop is closed, a lot of people just smash the window and steal what they want. Freedom without restraint is chaos, and if we don't figure out some way to prevent online chaos, the quantity, quality and availability of the kinds of entertainment, literature, art and scholarship we need to have a healthy, vibrant culture will suffer. People steal things if it is beyond store hours? If that's the only reason you think people steal things then just open your stupid stores 24 hours a day, moron.
Freedom? You are trying to link freedom to the movie industry? How can you link the industry's "you buy when we say how we say without knowing what your buying first" to Freedom?
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by Bit :$310M so far, not counting merchandising, future DVD/Blu-Ray, online purchases or rentals, PPV, Pay-TV rights, free-TV rights, or even future box office. It cost $200 million to make and of that's $310 mil the studios only get HALF the other half goes to the theater owners. so thT'S $155 So so far Wolverine is $45 mil in the red. And it's near the end of it's run in the theaters. It's not going to make $90 million it needs to just to break even. As far as the other stuff. As more and more people have the "why should I pay for it the studios and movie stars make too much anyways" attitude how much money can be made from those when everyone is downloading it for free.
Are you as a company going to pay for PPV rights if you feel no one is going to pay because they all already downloaded it for free? No of course not.
this guy does have some valid points about people's attitudes. Hell a couple of months ago my son comes h9m and says he say Monsters & Aliens at school. I said "It just came out how could you see it in school?" he said the teacher downloaded from a website and told her students the name of this site and should tell their parants about it so they can download movies too. Now this is a TEACHER. Now maybe kids don't realize what she was doing is both wrong and illegal and here is someone kids trust, so if a teachers says it's ok it must be ok.
Now all that being said if this guy's approach to the problem is keeping things the way they are then no that's isn't going to work and is also stupid.
Not everyone goes to the movies anymore. They should accept that. If you release the DVD, blu-ray, PPV, online download the same day the movie gets released in the theaters you'll reduce priracy quite a bit right there.
Also LOWER the prices. Ok DVD and blu-rays are too expensive anyways but really why is an online download the same price of a DVD when there is almost no manufactuing cost or distibution costs? It's not like there is physical disc to make and packaging then having to ship it across the ocean on a ship then via truck to a store.
Third get with the 21st century. Ok if I bought blu-ray and you insist I pay $30 then I shouldn't have to pay extra to have a copy on my computer or portable media player. You shlould allow me to make copies for those devices. You should trust me that I will not give a copy to all my friends. Hell if I really wanted to to that I wouldn't have bought the damned blu-ray I would have downloaded from the internet illegally in the first place in which case you would have gotten NOTHING from me. | |
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westdc
join:2009-01-25
Amissville, VA | Getting you ready to PAY FOR USE (TAXES) Based on the internet Site it was posted on--This is to get you ready to start paying Fee's or more TAXES (to use the internet) that your stealing for free now. | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: "Freedom without restraint is chaos" said by fatness :From the editorial by Linton: quote:
Freedom without restraint is chaos
I'm trying to remember a time someone said that and wasn't trying to screw someone else, and I'm coming up empty. A rewording of that quote makes a point:
»www.essentialschools.org/cs/ffor···ive.view
Benjamin Franklin warned that, "There can be no freedom without responsibility." »www.fff.org/freedom/fd0205d.asp
Likewise, there can be no freedom without responsibility. If people are held not to be responsible for their actions, the reason must be that they are held not to be free with respect to those actions. Consequently, their political freedom is a quaint illusion (a vestige of the pre-scientific age), and so is its abolition. The temptation of being relieved of responsibility carries a high price: slavery.
Thus freedom and responsibility go together, like marriage and the loss of bachelorhood. This suggests that people who pay only lip service to liberty may be telling us that they don’t want the responsibility that goes along with it.
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
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Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
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| Re: "Freedom without restraint is chaos" said by fatness :Point taken. Neither of those is written by someone connected with a business venture, though. When businesses are talking philosophical generalities like "freedom without restraint is chaos" instead of specific problems and their specific solutions, they're usually snowing people. They're after that "Slavery" part. As in they're the masters and you're the Slave who must turn over your income to them.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs: | Ummmm Cheese : Sony is stupid!  | |
| jkeelsnc
join:2008-08-22
Boone, NC
| Idiot Alright, Mr. Lyton you are acting like the last 8 years of political "leadership" in Washington. Instead of adapting and changing you just want everything to be like it has been for 30 years. You should be voted out as CEO by the shareholders and replaced with a visionary that understands what consumers want and adjust the business model to suit.
Whining about piracy when sony is making quite a bit of money off of their current business (which is still not adapted to the new world of the internet) means that I don't symapathize a bit.
Go off and join your hand wringing, red faced, tyrant, little hitler fundamentalist buddies in the GOP and fade into obscurity. Otherwise, CHANGE! And stop trying to get AT&T, Verizon, TWC, Comcast, Et al. to do your dirty work for you by issuing DMCA take down notices. You should be paying them for this service instead of arm twisting them to do it for you for free while passing the expense on to customers.
This kind of crap going in corporations nowadays with the selfish, greedy, short sighted executives lately has me burnt up. You will not get an ounce of sympathy from me Mr. Lynton. | |
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John Keels
@bellsouth.net
| Re: Who is the idiot here Uhmm, I simply mean that his expression of how he sees the internet as his enemy is very similar to the way a lot of business "leaders" and most of the core of the republican "leaders" operate. Which is simply to attack something they don't like rather than adapting to changes. Anyway, he will lose his job or his division will be obsolete eventually with that outlook unless he manages to strong arm the courts or other businesses in to pushing his agenda which is possible.
As for the other senators, representatives etc you list. Partly I agree with that. Usually this is not a political arena on here so I suppose its headed toward off topic. Pelosi, for instance I question her honesty lately.
Current leadership is still better than the complete mess we had in the last 8 years. If you look at the result of that time objectively I think you can see that clearly. Unless you consider weak minded, loud mouth idiots like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, etc. as luminaries of forward thought and wise living. The idea that hey yeah if I talk louder and interrupt people then they will simply accept what I have to say because how could I be incorrect if I am so willing to speak loudly and be rude.
I meant no offense I am just burnt up like a lot of people these days about people Like Mr. Lynton and their attitudes toward those he feels threatened by. Ignorance on his part about the internet is unacceptable within corporate ranks and yet there a lot of them. Same goes for Washington. I don't think there is anything wrong with making accurate comparisons with his mindset to that of the party that was in power in the previous eight years. As they pretty much ran the country with the same attitude he has. | |
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fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
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Limbo
·Skype
| Talk to the other Sony group CEOs Lynton should probably talk to the heads of Sony's electronics division. They've effectively mandated the addition of internet-ready capability in many of Sony's electronics lineup--Bravia HDTVs, and upcoming Blu-Ray players for example over the next few years. And of course, let's not forget the PS3. I'm thinking the internet has worked out pretty well for the whole PS3 on-line gaming and purchasing of games on-line for that part of Sony.
Obviously the other parts of the company feel the internet is worth investing R&D to add said capability to their products.
Lynton's comments seem to put him at odds with other Sony divisions.
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44402812
Hack The Planet
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join:2006-08-28
Plattsburgh, NY
| Give SkyNet Your Wallet! Give Skynet your wallet or you will be terminated! If somehow you are able to help the resistance in court, remember, "I'll Be Back"! | |
| theeinstein
Premium
join:2003-07-31
Fernandina Beach, FL | What he really said.. What he meant to say was To keep my wallet fat you need to buy more and get less! | |
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Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX | Internet to Sony Pictures CEO: You're an idiot What he doesn't realize is that most of the Internet considers him and others of his ilk idiots. | |
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Hpower
Roflmao
join:2000-06-08
Glendale, CA
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Hmmm I wonder......... LOL! His head does look big. This guy is goign to get his ass kicked sooner or later for being so dumb and ignorant. Look at his fake smile. 
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yolarry
join:2007-12-29
Creston, WV | You made my day!
LMFAOOOOO | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| Re: How quickly Mikey forgets! The entertainment division's eternal war with the engineers over at the electronic divisions.
The problem is the entertainment division's only weapon they have to do battle with the electronic divisions is over cooked asparagus. You, You, You, take that!!!!!!!!......Oh ouch now that isn't fair you threw a laptop at me.
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| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
1 edit | well that war will never end because the hardware division has no choice but to make what the people want in order to stay in business. if the people want a digital home then they get it even if it makes some minor pirating easier.
the entertainment division just needs to learn to keep up with the demand for entertainment in any room at any time with no strings attached. | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | It's just business. One must always remember that corporations are sociopaths that will say anything that helps them profit, without regard to truth, consistency, or human values. Interpreting a statement from someone speaking for a corporation as if it came from a human with conscience, values, or honesty is a widespread fallacy.
But it is important to examine what they say, because otherwise the propaganda they put out is toxic to the audience's minds. Here are a few examples.
said by Lynton :
[W]ithout standards of commerce and more action against piracy, the intellectual property of humankind will be subject to infinite exploitation on the Internet.
Observing the same facts without the corporate "spin", one might say instead that so far as culture is not constrained by restrictive laws, the intellectual and cultural heritage of mankind can be freely shared to everyone's benefit on the internet. It takes a crude, narrow and mean mentality to regard it only as "property" for "exploitation".
How many people will be as motivated to write a book or a song, or make a movie if they know it is going to be immediately stolen from them and offered to the world with no compensation whatsoever?
This will eventually result in fewer of the dumbed-down, corny, effects-bloated Hollywood products, and more of the thoughtful, provocative and well-written independent films. And sooner or later companies will figure out that if they offer high-quality downloads, for reasonable prices and free from malware ("DRM"), people will gladly pay for them.
And how many people whose work is connected with those creative industries -- the carpenters, drivers, food service workers, and thousands of others -- will lose their jobs as piracy robs their business of resources?
Piracy doesn't cost jobs, it merely transfers them from one sector to another. Industries that price themselves out of profiting from their "intellectual property", or discourage customers with onerous restrictions, lose revenue, and the same amount is gained by others for other economically beneficial uses. Consumer "pirates" support other industries with the money they save; software "pirates" are productive at lower cost, and so on.
And more important, the reference to "those creative industries" is pure rubbish. Only individuals, not "industries" are creative - and the "content" industry Lynton represents is entirely built on thoroughly and notoriously ripping off the actual creators of the art that it sells. Let's give all the copyrights back to the artists - then creativity would be rewarded and Lynton would have to do something productive for a living. | |
| | brianl703
join:2004-02-26
Manassas, VA
1 edit | said by Mr Matt :What a hypocrite! Obviously Mikey is a member of the Greedy Old Pig faction of the Republican Party Sure he is, just look at his campaign contributions. $0 to Rs and $7500 to Ds, including Obama.
»fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neig···=Michael
With very few exceptions, most people involved with the movie industry are Democrats, so his contributions are as I expected. | |
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swhx7
Premium
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Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| What does he want, exactly? There are already laws against copyright infringement. The problem from Lynton's point of view seems to be that it's inconvenient and expensive to sue all the millions of infringers. Even if court judgments are vastly out of proportion to any realistically estimated loss, the net proceeds from that approach won't amount to much.
His only recommendations are vague:
I'm not talking here about censorship, taxation or burdensome government restrictions. I'm talking about reasonable boundaries, "rules of the road," that can help promote the many positive attributes of Internet technology while curtailing its hugely damaging effects. ... without restraints, much of [internet] content will be contraband. Maybe he wants what copyright industry lobbyists have been demanding: for government to shift the cost of protecting his company's products onto internet providers, by making them monitor all their subscribers' traffic and disconnect anyone accused of piracy. This would be a burdensome government mandate, not a "burdensome government restriction", so it is consistent with his weaselly remarks.
Or maybe he wants even more extremist protection for his industry, such as prohibition of all filesharing technology, outlawing innocent as well as illegal uses. This would be easier and cheaper to implement, and the harms would befall people other than Sony, so presumably he wouldn't mind the collateral damage. This interpretation would be consistent with other demands from the copyright cartel in the past, and Lynton doesn't show any awareness of how far out of the mainstream those ideas are. | |
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Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: What does he want, exactly? What he wants could best be summed up in a FLA (Four Letter Acronym): ACTA, aka the Anti Counterfeiting Trade Agreement. The dinosaurs are desperately trying to hold on to pre digital technology, and in doing so threaten the Internet. It is long past time for them to go.
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"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
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| | | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: What does he want, exactly? problem is these Dinosaurs are trying to use money to outlaw Astroids.........
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Curious I wonder how many "artists" Sony-owned music labels have signed up who preach in favor of committing violence or engaging in other forms of lawbreaking.
If the listeners of this "music" do indeed show their disdain for the law by pirating this stuff, does Sony have a legitimate right to complain?
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| Chosen1
join:2001-08-05
Orange Park, FL | He fails to mention... ...how much money does Sony make off of blank cd-r's and dvd-r's (+, -, DL, BD-R, etc), which are most likely used to proliferate said piracy? | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| Re: He fails to mention... . | |
| | DTStone
join:2008-08-05
Cincinnatus, NY
·Verizon Online DSL
| Actual numbers would be nice... It always amuses me when people insist outright that any sort of online sharing reduces sales.
While it's true it's a different market, it -is- an entertainment market, unlike certain reference materials, and Baen put up books in their 'Free Library' from their authors. And both Eric Flint and Mercedes Lackey went on record as saying the sales of their books -increased- by a marked percentage after doing so.
I'd love to see other such things done with people willing to actually monitor the results, for movies and music. Not likely, though. | |
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stock2020
@rr.com | Re: Actual numbers would be nice... Someone is gotta talk about something for there stock to rise up. | |
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anonGrrr
@co.us
| Re: CEO How many times do I have to say it?
You make your content expensive and difficult to access, that (among the myriad of other reasons) is why people steal. Stealing has been going on since Krongor clubbed his cave man neighbor and took that mammoth steak. "IT WAS READILY AVAILABLE..UNNGGG".
Companies like Apple, Amazon have seen the Internet as a good thing, they have incorporated it into their models and are making money, if not attracting people to their site. Why is this so hard to see? | |
| 
VidsGuy
Premium
join:2002-07-18
Edison, NJ
clubs:
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| Stupidity at its worst Mr. Lynton, you sound like a flaming imbecile, a stupid, ill-informed moron.
The internet has benefited the world and all its users more than all the other technological advances combined. Virtually every library and source of information about any subject imaginable is at the fingertips of the internet user.
The internet has provided students from kindergarten up to and including graduate school with the means to excel in every subject. It fills a serious void left by educators and educational administrators who have made it possible for our kids to graduate from high school without knowing how to spell, intelligently speak about history and identify the location of various nations around the world.
It has made it possible for individuals throughout the world to communicate and interact with each other. It has fostered a better understanding between people and friendships across the oceans that would have never been possible.
Internet users have educated themselves in its uses. They are a cross section of international society, with all their human strengths and frailties. They use the internet in their hunger for information, knowledge of the arts and humanities, the news as it happens, music and theater.
Before you condemn the most brilliant achievement mankind has ever produced, you might consider installing a computer in your own home and learn how to use the internet. Until you become informed, you will sound like a dumb ass stupid idiot every time you make the type of statements you have embarrassed yourself with this time.
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He who dies with the most toys wins !!! | |
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He is right about 1 thing
I don't see what That Which Is Most Holy is doing different except spending every dime this country will have for the next 200 years. I fail to see what President Bush has to do with Michael Lynton letting loose with a smelly verbal fart to get attention anyway. 
How quickly Mikey forgets!
