Comments - dslreports.com

Re: Haha

It was signed by Clinton but passed through congress through repubs.
Yes, the repeal is is a Huge part of the reason we're in this financial mess. Compounding this mess was the criminal negligence of the SEC. But I digress. This period of limited, toothless, or no regulation gave these mega corps carte blanche at trading whatever they wanted. Now the tax payers are paying for those trades in bailouts. The consumer is paying for those executive decisions with higher credit card rates, and abusive tactics regarding insurance coverage. Your "unregulated" utopia has negatively filtered into every aspect of our lives. And guess who pays for those negative effects....you...the person that works. Its self serving to have gov't modestly regulate certain entities. When deregulation comes along, you shouldnt be surprised when the consequences cause the pendulum swing to the polar opposite!
--
BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils!

permalink · 2009-06-23 14:21:43 · Print ·

S_engineer join:2007-05-16 Chicago, IL ·Comcast	Re: Haha Its the direct cause for banks like BOA and Citi to buy and trade morgage backed securities and collateralized debt obligations. It allowed Leahman and Bear Sterns to push credit default swaps. All of which was insured by the likes of AIG. So tell me...which individuals should we be looking for to get our money back? -- BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils!
	permalink · 2009-06-23 15:34:54 ·

MTU
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San Luis Obispo, CA

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Re: Haha

To get it 'right': Republicans, Phil Graham in the Senate, and Jim Leach in the house wrote the Graham-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999 (to repeal Glass-Steagall at the behest of the Banking industry). The act was passed on a party-line vote (Republicans controlled both houses).

Clinton signed the bill. A veto would have been overridden and Bill liked bankers as most politicians do. (When their not posing for a camera)

permalink · 2009-06-23 22:54:58 ·

funchords
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said by NOVA_Guy

:

Same difference when it comes to the current administration, as far as results go. You can choose between so-called "greedy" and "evil" corporations or the greedy, inexperienced, incompetant, ill-intended plans of The Obamination. Given a choice, I prefer the so-called "evil" I know (corporations) over the evil I don't know any day.

First off, this is just so much off-topic political posturing. You hate Obama. Vote harder next time.

Secondly, I don't believe for a moment that anyone with sanity believes that a for-profit monopolistic-powered corporation is better tuned to the day-to-day interests of the people it serves than a government elected by and for the people.

Third, if I'm wrong about that second point, then I wish for your dream to come true for you -- because after you reap the results, your views will change.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL

permalink · 2009-06-23 14:22:28 · Print ·

Metatron2008

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Stockbridge, GA

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Re: Haha

said by funchords

said by NOVA_Guy

Obama is Bush 2. Bought by the same corporations, doing the same thing. Your a fool to believe in change. The only change was Bush went out, Obama went in.

permalink · 2009-06-23 14:37:44 · Print ·

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

Re: Haha

said by Metatron2008

said by funchords

said by NOVA_Guy

Obama is Bush 2. Bought by the same corporations, doing the same thing. Your a fool to believe in change. The only change was Bush went out, Obama went in.

So McCain would be better? because that's was your other choice.

permalink · 2009-06-23 23:37:33 · Print ·

Metatron2008

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Re: Haha

said by BF69

:

So McCain would be better? because that's was your other choice.

If you read above, I said criminals are making laws. Nobody will be better until the criminals that make laws based on how much they are bribed are replaced by people who do the job their hired for.

If you think their is any difference between today's republicans and democrats, try this: Ask them to do something, esp. something they say they won't do in public, and then bribe them with lots of cash.

permalink · 2009-06-23 23:54:12 · Print ·

funchords Hello Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Washington, DC ·Verizon Online DSL ·Skype	Re: Haha said by Metatron2008 : If you think their is any difference between today's republicans and democrats, try this: Ask them to do something, esp. something they say they won't do in public, and then bribe them with lots of cash. Encouraging criminal activity is probably as good as an idea as committing it yourself. -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
	permalink · 2009-06-24 00:25:16 · Print ·

Metatron2008

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Re: Haha

said by funchords

said by Metatron2008

:

If you think their is any difference between today's republicans and democrats, try this: Ask them to do something, esp. something they say they won't do in public, and then bribe them with lots of cash.

Encouraging criminal activity is probably as good as an idea as committing it yourself.

Are you serious with that response? I wasn't actually saying to do it, I was making a point.

permalink · 2009-06-24 00:37:52 · Print ·

funchords Hello Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Washington, DC ·Verizon Online DSL ·Skype	said by BF69 : So McCain would be better? because that's was your other choice. Really. I sent McCain an email, once. I got no reply -- I guess his Etch-a-Sketch was broken. -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
	permalink · 2009-06-24 00:24:08 ·

fiberguy My views are my own. Premium join:2005-05-20	There were other choices... not just McCain and GW Obama. There was Hillary, there was Ron Paul, there was Mitt Romney.. none of them were put up on the top ticket, were they? There were other choices as the elections started 2 years prior to election day.
	permalink · 2009-06-24 03:39:00 ·

Neyland

join:2003-02-04
USA

said by funchords

:

Secondly, I don't believe for a moment that anyone with sanity believes that a for-profit monopolistic-powered corporation is better tuned to the day-to-day interests of the people it serves than a government elected by and for the people.

That all depends on how removed from the people that government is.

As long as there is true competition in the market the the business is always better than government.

permalink · 2009-06-23 15:20:57 · Print ·

mech1164 I'Ll Be Back join:2001-11-19 Lodi, NJ	said by funchords : First off, this is just so much off-topic political posturing. You hate Obama. Vote harder next time. We did the Stupids who thought they were going to get their Houses paid off by him came out in droves. People are only now realizing what a mistake they made. Oh well everybody enjoy the Socialism Komrade.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 23:19:15 · Print ·

fiberguy
My views are my own.
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quote:
Secondly, I don't believe for a moment that anyone with sanity believes that a for-profit monopolistic-powered corporation is better tuned to the day-to-day interests of the people it serves than a government elected by and for the people.

This pipe-dream still exists?? I wasn't aware of that.. I needed a laugh today, thanks.

In case you haven't noticed, these "elected representatives" simply say what ever it takes to get elected and into office and then shove their own agenda down the throats of Americans. They're "party representatives".. if they were doing the work of the people, WHY would each person have to campaign? .. the PARTY would say the message to the voting public.. it would be so much easier.

If they are elected by the people FOR the people, then tell me something... why do they rely SO much on polls, studies, research, demographics, etc. in order to form their campaign? It's called "pondering" to the voting public.. it's using statistics to figure out the group who has the most to benefit from the promises made on the trail in order to get them elected.

If these people TRULY represented the people, they would SIMPLY say what they want to say, plan to do, and not pick up ONE SINGLE demographic study, survey, poll, etc.. Right?

Government, today, is on the same level of the business you portray in your post.

permalink · 2009-06-24 03:37:32 · Print ·

binded

@senescomarine.com

no this is why we have all these ponzi schemes
and billions of dollars profit to these ass holes that
cheated and greedy fuckers took money which no one will be able to get back

its just gone

another point of worthlessness is the class action suits

just to get a few bucks
you lose a few thousand bucks and you only get maybe 20 back

LOL
greed greed and yet the lawyers once again they went home in there nice car

maybe those are the guys that you should have doing your stock stuff

(mod note: removed name calling)

permalink · 2009-06-23 16:39:46 · Print ·

Metatron2008

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Stockbridge, GA

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Re: Haha

said by ender7074

said by jkeelsnc

:

Except that your greedy opinions ruined us the last 8 years. For profit is fine for internet but not healthcare. When you profit by having yoru customers come back again and again (that is they are still sick and keep coming back) then that is not OK.

Profit is good for many things but not when it comes to the life of a human being which is more important than a profit.

I am business major and you'd think I was a brainwashed right wing idiot. Think again. I have seen the BS in corporations lately. I have seen what the 'hands off' approach did for the banks. They did what they wanted and screwed a lot of people. I'll gladly take government regulation over irresponsible executives.

No, you're a brainwashed left wing idiot. The government has no place in the FREE market. Muni broadband will never work. You think that a city can raise the money to lay down fiber, get that fiber to the house, and afford a connection to the backbone? Think again. I sure dont want my taxes to skyrocket so that local government can piss away millions on a project that they will end up mismanaging anyway.

Also, you may want to really check your sources. There has been no "hands off" approach with the banks. The government forced the banks into making risky loans. Legislation for major audits of Fanne Mae and Freddie Mac were presented in 2001 and 2005, both of which were shot down in comittee by Democrats. Nice try, you strike out.

No, you strike out. Muni broadband that is paid by taxpayers would be exactly the same as the government giving tax dividends and such to current large isp corporations.

permalink · 2009-06-23 14:09:36 · Print ·

jkeelsnc

join:2008-08-22
Boone, NC

Re: Haha

Right, its easy to claim that the clinton administration tried to force the banks to make risky loans. BS.

However, the fact that the banks were allowed to be deregulated l was what caused the problems. The banks went ahead and made the risky loans and then sold more against them. Nonsense.

Of course, its easy to blame someone else. Banks are good at that. Look at all the ridiculous charges they tack on for every petty thing.

Its one reason why my account is with a credit union. The fees are a lot less, the service is better, and guess what? They don't have the problems the banks had because they weren't approving risky loans and mortgages in the first place (or at least not as much).

Surprised? Now do you think that a profit only motive is good. No one talks about credit unions probably because most of them are not for profit and as such they didn't feel compelled by profit (alone) to tread the deep waters of risky loans.

permalink · 2009-06-23 21:09:06 · Print ·

funchords
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said by ender7074

:

Muni broadband will never work. You think that a city can raise the money to lay down fiber, get that fiber to the house, and afford a connection to the backbone?

Sure it works. There are a number of muni-broadband projects that work just fine.

Look at it this way, if they were all bound to fail, then incumbent companies could just let them fail. No, instead they have to go to court to hold them off.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL

permalink · 2009-06-23 14:25:30 · Print ·

binded @senescomarine.com	this sounds great but in the end just like every other city or what not most if not all of the projects will not be completed at all or will be half assed or they will be done if you live in a state like mine it will most likely be over cost thanks RI LOL and then the city will sell it off to verizon for not even 1/3 of the cost that they put in to it
	permalink · 2009-06-23 16:33:13 ·

WhatNow
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join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

Wilson NC did it for 35 million. I don't have a problem if the set up a company outside the government but to use muni staff and tax breaks and permits is not a level playing field. The bill in the NC Legislature was to keep the muni fiber ISPs completely separate from the town government. If they act like a private company more power too them. If they raise money and back it with muni taxes, and then don't have to pay muni taxes then no deal. If they use city staff and don't have to get permits or inspections then no deal. The muni ISP should have to jump through exactly the same hoops Joes ISP would have too.

If you owned a business and the town decided they would like to go into competition but used city staff as employees, paid no city taxes and did not have to even pay rent because they used a city building. How long could you compete.

permalink · 2009-06-23 17:39:04 · Print ·

jkeelsnc

join:2008-08-22
Boone, NC

Re: Haha

Thats BS. If it is the city's own technical stuff and their own lines they don't pay tax to themselves! in that case you are just creating a situation to charge the taxpayers more money to benefit the incumbents. The whole point of allowing muni's to build a network is because the incumbents have bad customer service (really bad), sometimes unreliable connections and most especially because they sometimes won't service areas even when they are in town. People even close or in town sometimes are still waiting 10 years for service and the incumbents can't deliver. Perhaps they cannot. Why should a city have to pay taxes to itself. It is not a private business and it is city property. OF COURSE THEY DON'T PAY TAXES TO THEMSELVES.

permalink · 2009-06-23 20:33:52 · Print ·

fedupwithmorons @whccd.org 1 edit	said by ender7074 : The government forced the banks into making risky loans. Banks were not forced to do anything. The repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act allowed banks to disquise shitty loans as sound investments and pass off the risk to others. That's why they made all those bad loans. I supposed you think it was the poor minorities that took out most of those bad loans too, right?
	permalink · 2009-06-23 17:39:24 · Print ·

Metatron2008 join:2008-09-02 Stockbridge, GA	If you want government to stay out of the free market, then stop lobbying politicians, and stop letting them pay telcos and cablecos tax dividends.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 12:35:58 ·

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

said by ITALIAN926

:

Yes I am absolutely opposed to muni broadband due to the same principles Im not for nationalized healthcare. Government should stay out of the free market.. thats it.

There ISN'T a free market in broadband. The fact you don't realize that shows tell us a lot. Please get educated.

the fact is if NO ONE wanted to put out the cost of providing boradband why CAN'T a local government do it? Exactly which "free market" are they hurting? There is no market.

permalink · 2009-06-23 12:39:57 · Print ·

See 7 replies to this post

funchords
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said by ITALIAN926

:

Yes I am absolutely opposed to muni broadband due to the same principles Im not for nationalized healthcare. Government should stay out of the free market.. thats it.

I like my government roads. I like my city water service. I can see a municipal data network being very much like a system of roads or a water department.

As to our system of healthcare, that's fine until somebody gets hurt. Then the insurance companies refuse to cover him, and given the inflated prices caused by our insurance system, an individual can't afford the care that he needs.

-- Robb, cancer survivor, 100% cured, denied insurance coverage multiple times due to his history of cancer
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL

permalink · 2009-06-23 12:56:51 · Print ·

NOVA_Guy
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Re: Haha

I'm glad you like roads with plenty of potholes and plenty of gridlock every day. I see government-run programs as very much a metaphysical representation of DC's roads-- potholes, rough rides, gridlock, needless enforcement traps, people who don't understand when and where to walk, and slow moving idiots all over the place.
--
It took Abraham Lincoln to free the slaves. And it's taking Barack Obama to enslave the free.
The Obama Administration: as transparent as my grandmother's flannel nightgown.

permalink · 2009-06-23 15:23:23 · Print ·

funchords
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Re: Haha

said by NOVA_Guy

:

I'm glad you like roads with plenty of potholes and plenty of gridlock every day. I see government-run programs as very much a metaphysical representation of DC's roads-- potholes, rough rides, gridlock, needless enforcement traps, people who don't understand when and where to walk, and slow moving idiots all over the place.

Well, I'm convinced that DC is the exception to every rule. I honestly don't get this place. Toto and I are ready to go home. But to use DC as the example of anything common brings your whole argument into question.

By and large, we have a great system of public roads in the United States.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL

permalink · 2009-06-23 17:50:09 · Print ·

S_engineer

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Chicago, IL

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said by ITALIAN926

:

. Government should stay out of the free market.. thats it.

How can you aspouse free market principles regarding companies that have been heavily subsidized from our gov't via tax incentives?
And if caps are to protect these companies in the future, then why not change to a pay-per-use model that would help the consumer save for the future?
--
BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils!

permalink · 2009-06-23 13:09:49 · Print ·

Metatron2008

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Re: Haha

said by S_engineer

said by ITALIAN926

:

. Government should stay out of the free market.. thats it.

That's because his definition of a 'free market' is one where the ISPs have a market where they are free to do as they please.

BTW, a true free market is one where buyers determine the price. The isp market is a monopoly if anything.

permalink · 2009-06-23 14:15:40 · Print ·

tangojoker Peace join:2004-01-25 Beaverton, OR ·T-Mobile US ·Teleblend	Lets take Gov out of everything !!!! What would happen if All roads to be maintained by private sector ? Wouldn't it be a surprise to see that the road in front of your house not being maintained as they don't make profit ? May be they start charging you by the weight of your car or number of tires it has? May be they start dictating what type of vehicle you could use on the road. .....
	permalink · 2009-06-23 13:43:10 ·

ChrisBnTx

@spectraenergy.com

Re: Haha

I guess you don't pay hundreds in HOA fees like I do every year. Where is this magical free neigborhood you live in? The toll roads are another issue all together. Now I have the choice of paying $100+ a month (above taxes) to sit in traffic on a toll road.

Competition is a great thing, but it is not universally capable. I work in the pipeline industry which I believe is very well regulated. And until there are a 20 or so companies willing to spend $50 billion + to start up their own interstate pipelines the US will have to get by with the few of us that are here. There have been completely free market economies in the past. You end up with feudal systems with only a handful of people with any power. Sure there is a bloody overthrow every couple centuries to "correct the market" but the middle parts suck.

permalink · 2009-06-23 15:52:20 · Print ·

funchords
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said by NOVA_Guy

:

Oh, yes, and take a look at the Dulles Greenway out here too (»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_S···oute_267). It's privately owned, yet tolls are reasonable and nobody dictates what type of car you can drive on it.

Yet somehow the State Corporation Commission regulates the rates and terms of use. It's very much treated as a utility, with rate controls and other conditions.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL

permalink · 2009-06-23 17:44:38 · Print ·

KrK
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said by ITALIAN926

:

Yes I am absolutely opposed to muni broadband due to the same principles Im not for nationalized healthcare. Government should stay out of the free market.. thats it.

Could you explain your position further? There are many valid cases where Government enters a market to provide or create services that the private markets won't or can't. There are also many cases where a Government regulated monopoly can make more economic sense then unregulated free market.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

permalink · 2009-06-23 14:02:02 · Print ·

woody7 Premium join:2000-10-13 Torrance, CA	yea, your 'FREE" market is doing a bang up job! -- BlooMe
	permalink · 2009-06-23 16:28:37 ·

Flibbetigibbet @lmco.com thumbs down from: TKJunkMail	Re: Haha Let's see... what did the old AT&T do when they lost "incredible revenue" in long-distance charges that were totally bogus? They went broke. Which is what should happen to dinosaur companies who can't change with technology (at least when Uncle Sugar doesn't prevent it--$100 billion to Government Motors). They can't handle that, they can get out of the business.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 15:58:12 ·

tt55 @comcast.net	att made more then one billion dallars the first three months of the year. that is after they pay off anything.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 11:56:18 ·

See 15 replies to this post

insomniac84

join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN

said by ITALIAN926

:

Ok so... you dont want metered billing? Everyone will simply get charged MORE for service.

But what little semblance of competition we have is just enough to keep it in check. Metering allows them to advertise a really cheap price knowing they will make it up via the obfuscated metered charges. By making them sell at a flat rate they are stuck balancing the need to gouge people and the want to advertise a lower price than anything that could compete.

It's a very important check to keep the system balanced for the consumer.

And in the end paying an extra 5-10 bucks a month is much much more appealing than getting a 10k bill because your computer was hacked, or always paying an extra 30 bucks a month due to a netflix subscription.

permalink · 2009-06-23 16:13:04 · Print ·

oh noez @qwest.net	said by ITALIAN926 : The general public seems to think they can dictate how much these companies can charge yeah. It's called the free market. Deal with it.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 18:42:12 ·

TheWickerMan

join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA

said by Luminaris

:

Get with it ISP's, stop trying to get more from us for less.

Unfortunately, that's the way a lot of businesses are these days. They've gotten greedy, pure and simple. It used to be all about providing a good service at a price that was both fair to the customer and profitable to the company. Now it's about providing the least amount of service for the highest price you can get away with.

permalink · 2009-06-23 13:02:11 · Print ·

sonicmerlin join:2009-05-24 Cleveland, OH	Re: Haha It's never been like that. Ever, ever, ever. I highly recommend you read "A People's History of the United States" by Howard Zinn. It's extremely revealing of the true nature of businesses in the US from the day it was found by Columbus.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 20:33:57 ·

Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02	We've consistently just drifted too far off topic. There are other places for redundant partisan bickering.
	permalink · 2009-06-24 10:59:45 ·

Bit Premium join:2009-02-19 00000 ·VOIPo ·Cox HSI	LIARS - In video revenues they trust If these AT&T whores were telling the truth, then basic service fees for Internet would tank, replaced by metered billing. But, noooooooooo, they want to charge Grandmothers the CURRENT prices while just gouging everyone else in defense of video revenues. -- POKE 65495,1
	permalink · 2009-06-23 11:06:10 ·

See 29 replies to this post

Vertickle join:2003-08-05 Madison, AL	I love it! I love Grandmothers! They will always tell you what think think without the sugar-coating!
	permalink · 2009-06-23 11:11:40 ·

axiomatic join:2006-08-23 Tomball, TX	LOL Boy I would love to be a fly on the wall over in AT&T marketing right now. When you get pimp slapped by grandmothers you have officially failed at marketing.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 11:19:01 ·

TKJunkMail Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ ·Sprint Mobile Broa.. ·Comcast	Re: LOL said by axiomatic : Boy I would love to be a fly on the wall over in AT&T marketing right now. When you get pimp slapped by grandmothers you have officially failed at marketing. Wow. 5 msgs from some people who you can't even verify are Gradmas. What a landslide of opposition!! {/sarcasm} -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
	permalink · 2009-06-23 11:36:57 · Print ·

Corydon
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Denver, CO
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Re: LOL

"I’m insulted AT&T thinks grandmothers like myself would be dumb enough to fall for their scams," says another. "Now grandfathers might be something else, which is why I pay the bills in this house," she says.

Yeah, but this is still funny.
--
"Religion allows people who would otherwise be arguing about whether the Death Star could beat a Borg Cube to have a place of respect within society."

permalink · 2009-06-23 11:48:36 ·

EdG

@eastlink.ca

said by TKJunkMail

said by axiomatic

:

Boy I would love to be a fly on the wall over in AT&T marketing right now. When you get pimp slapped by grandmothers you have officially failed at marketing.

Wow. 5 msgs from some people who you can't even verify are Gradmas. What a landslide of opposition!! {/sarcasm}

Well, given that we're talking about at&t, I'm sure they'll (il)legal wiretaps on them to prove or disprove their 'gradmasness' or as we call it, Grandmaness.

Why would anyone defend a faceless corporation - why are you, anyway?

permalink · 2009-06-23 11:56:31 · Print ·

amungus
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America
clubs:

Who cares. Points are still valid.

As for opposition, we don't know how many are opposed to this.

If I had to guess, it'd be something like almost everybody and their grandmother...

Perhaps this analogy would help:
People are opposed to this in much the same way they'd be opposed to having the radio metered.

Besides, what about the FRAK-TON of "stimulus" money for expanding service?

I see small outfits around here doing WAY more than AT&T for building out to other areas while they sit idle and flat out refuse to expand their service beyond what it's been for the better part of a decade. Call it what you will, but I certainly wouldn't call it progress if others are doing more about it than them...

permalink · 2009-06-23 11:58:18 · Print ·

digitalfreak join:2005-12-09 49533	As opposed to the "truths" your masters spew? I know you post just to get a rise out of people, but you make me laugh more than anything.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 13:30:11 ·

r81984
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We need to stop this now or...

we will end up being like canada.
Rogers (Canada Cable ISP)
Ultra Lite – 2 GB cap - 512kbps for $26
Lite – 25 GB cap - 3mbps for $36
Express – 60 GB cap - 10Mbps for $47
Extreme / Extreme Plus – 95 GB cap 10Mpbs for $60

Ultra Lite – $5.00/GB to a maximum of $25.00
Lite – $2.50/GB to a maximum of $25.00
Express – $2.00/GB to a maximum of $25.00
Extreme – $1.50/GB to a maximum of $25.00
Extreme Plus – $1.25/GB to a maximum of $25.00

Basically they will have an excuse to charge every plan $25 extra. Do we want the US to become like this???
--
For those of you playing a drinking game.... MY FRIENDS!

permalink · 2009-06-23 11:19:42 · Print ·

Stojko
Premium
join:2007-10-20
St John'S, NL

·NBTel now Aliant

Re: We need to stop this now or...

said by r81984

:

we will end up being like canada.
Rogers (Canada Cable ISP)
Ultra Lite – 2 GB cap - 512kbps for $26
Lite – 25 GB cap - 3mbps for $36
Express – 60 GB cap - 10Mbps for $47
Extreme / Extreme Plus – 95 GB cap 10Mpbs for $60

Ultra Lite – $5.00/GB to a maximum of $25.00
Lite – $2.50/GB to a maximum of $25.00
Express – $2.00/GB to a maximum of $25.00
Extreme – $1.50/GB to a maximum of $25.00
Extreme Plus – $1.25/GB to a maximum of $25.00

Basically they will have an excuse to charge every plan $25 extra. Do we want the US to become like this???

Ah, yes, good ol' Rogers (and Bell now with their proposed usage based billing.

Only decent ISP out here is Eastlink, they have 5mbps and 15mbps plans with no bandwidth caps and no throttling... it's just not available in any remotely urban (>5000, which is urban around here) place in Newfoundland. Of course.

permalink · 2009-06-23 11:31:27 · Print ·

sonicmerlin join:2009-05-24 Cleveland, OH	Re: We need to stop this now or... What does Canada reelect their legislature? It's my understanding it's predominantly Republican at this point in time.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 20:36:00 ·

Stojko Premium join:2007-10-20 St John'S, NL ·NBTel now Aliant	Re: We need to stop this now or... said by sonicmerlin : What does Canada reelect their legislature? It's my understanding it's predominantly Republican at this point in time. We just had an election last year... and the government is Conservative, yep.
	permalink · 2009-06-24 09:57:02 ·

me1212 join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO	No, which is why we need two things: one competition, and two we(the people) need to get off your butts and do something.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 11:31:29 ·

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC

·Skype

2 edits

Hahahahaha -- AT&T has it's own "Raging Grannies"

Meet the Raging Grannies from 2008

also on YouTube

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX7jFnuiYrM

but the text in Stop-the-Cap's article from AT&T's Grannies is priceless.

permalink · 2009-06-23 11:26:20 · Print ·

JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL

Re: Hahahahaha -- AT&T has it's own "Raging Grannies"

"I’m 77 years old. I’ve hated the darn phone company for 50 years. It’s always one lie after another with these people. It’s all about the money. How do they expect people to pay the bills they already get? Now these same companies want to get our tax dollars for Obama’s broadband, and then overbill us for more money? Never trust phone companies. They are almost as bad as those crooks in Washington. Not one of my children or grandchildren would work for AT&T. Where are the honest American companies that used to give you a good service at a fair price? I’ve learned a lot of things since my son gave me a computer and brought the Internet to me. But if they start telling me I have to worry about extra fees and meters to watch, I am getting rid of it. The Internet is not a credit card company."

Bravo
--
»www.seabee.navy.mil

permalink · 2009-06-23 11:33:03 · Print ·

me1212 join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO	Re: Hahahahaha -- AT&T has it's own "Raging Grannies" The older people know how evil the telcos can be they had parents tell them or were there for the time right b4 the Gov cracked down on monopolies and price gouging.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 11:35:47 ·

JSRoman Premium join:2005-03-10 Callahan, FL	Re: Hahahahaha -- AT&T has it's own "Raging Grannies" 50 years of hate building up. Miracle grandma hasn't gone postal. -- »www.seabee.navy.mil
	permalink · 2009-06-23 11:53:57 ·

Doctor Four My other vehicle is a TARDIS Premium join:2000-09-05 Dallas, TX ·AT&T U-Verse	Re: Hahahahaha -- AT&T has it's own "Raging Grannies" said by JSRoman : 50 years of hate building up. Miracle grandma hasn't gone postal. Like the Comcast "Hammer" Grandma? -- "The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
	permalink · 2009-06-23 12:05:52 ·

Masque join:2001-12-04 Auburn, MI	You Go Granny! AT&T really doesn't know who they're dealing with....they're in deep doo-doo now.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 11:31:23 ·

executor04

join:2004-05-18
Kew Gardens, NY

compromise?

the ONLY way i would ever except a cap on any company was they completely took away throttling. I don't have that with TWC, but people like I think on optimum and or comcast, when they upload too much or whatever they get pushed down to dsl speeds. If they took away that, and left a 250gb cap, I think everyone will live with that. Don't get me wrong though, I think there should be NOTHING for the price we pay. No throttling, or metered billing.

permalink · 2009-06-23 11:39:14 · Print ·

sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

Re: compromise?

I won't live with that. Caps are meaningless. They don't manage network congestion. Let me repeat:

Caps do not manage network congestion.

No ISP has ever revealed their internal economic statistics. Some estimates put them at making $40/person/month of profit. Since the ISP market is far, *far* from a free one, caps would have to be justified by a real economics argument. BTW, this is impossible for a company making billions in profit each year.

permalink · 2009-06-23 20:38:31 ·

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

said by executor04

:

the ONLY way i would ever except a cap on any company was they completely took away throttling. I don't have that with TWC, but people like I think on optimum and or comcast, when they upload too much or whatever they get pushed down to dsl speeds. If they took away that, and left a 250gb cap, I think everyone will live with that. Don't get me wrong though, I think there should be NOTHING for the price we pay. No throttling, or metered billing.

people on BOOST don't get capped, unsure about others but with fios in most CV areas, i doubt regular OOL gets capped either.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee

permalink · 2009-06-24 00:26:23 · Print ·

amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:

guarantee

...that my grandparents wouldn't want this either... if they could even get DSL, or cable.

Great sub-title for the article. It is indeed a complete and utter rip off and is very easy to spot. Nobody wants this. Glad there are some actual grandmothers out there speaking their minds and being heard.

Since it's already too late, ISPs might as well suck it up and do what they can to move forward instead of crying about it and trying to claim they've got no choice.

They have PLENTY of choice.

If they didn't, why'd they ever upgrade speeds and then cry when people use those connections? For the most part, DSL is better suited than cable to handle people actually using their line to its fullest potential. Pure hogwash that they can't keep up. They're far enough ahead to also have everything tapped! In any case, they DO still have plenty of money, and plenty more time to keep making sure capacity upgrades are set before rolling out yet another speed increase... I'm sure even grandmothers would rather have a slightly slower link if it could be used as often as needed without concern for "overage" or "caps" or "monitoring" or any number of other pointless bean counting and snarky things.

Whatever happens, I'm sure this won't be the last we hear of capping/metering/non-neutral/non-free internet. I'm sure they'd love to have us cornered and locked down even further than China's internet.

What they fail to recognize is that people crave freedom. Well, most do.
Guess there are still enough up-tight, authoritarian minded, busybody, "I'm better than you," "My ___ don't stink," people in this world who crave and salivate over the chance to micro-manage and control every aspect of everyone's business.

It's a shame too, life's too short to be so cold, bitter, mean, and wasteful.

permalink · 2009-06-23 11:39:33 · Print ·

Vertickle join:2003-08-05 Madison, AL ·Knology	Re: guarantee said by amungus : utter rip off Damn that sounds painful...
	permalink · 2009-06-23 13:08:22 ·

fatness subtle Janitor join:2000-11-17 fishing	Re: guarantee Now imagine you're a cow.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 19:07:02 ·

jkeelsnc join:2008-08-22 Boone, NC	BS AT&T had better lower my monthly bill if they are going to impose caps or start metered billing. Otherwise, I am gone. I have better things to do than play games with the phone company. I do have choices and i am not afraid to exercise them.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 11:50:44 ·

ITALIAN926 join:2003-08-16 Stratford, CT	Re: BS Yes , go to another ISP that will impose caps in the future. LOL
	permalink · 2009-06-23 11:53:54 ·

FAQFixer Premium join:2004-06-28 Powder Springs, GA 1 edit	If it on the internet it must be true It doesn't matter what side of the argument you're on this is pure bullcrap propaganda. It's funny how some can clearly see right through any propaganda put out by Corporate America and see it for what it is. Yet those same people some how believe that there are unbiased gandmas (edited)spontaneously voicing outrage.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 11:54:33 ·

Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02	Re: If it on the internet it must be true Which "lobbying group" would that be? Stop The Cap is run by a Rochester consumer with absolutely no ties to industry of any kind,
	permalink · 2009-06-23 12:08:48 ·

JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL

Stop the Cap! is run by consumers, for consumers. No industry money backs this website, and it has no ties to any political group, special interest lobbying firms, or commercial interests. It is supported entirely by voluntary contributions from interested readers.

»stopthecap.com/about-us/

Now I'm sure the grandmas got some coaching on their statements but still doesn't change the fact that these metered billing trials have been a marketing nightmare.
--
»www.seabee.navy.mil

permalink · 2009-06-23 12:57:40 · Print ·

Dampier
Phillip M Dampier

join:2003-03-23
Rochester, NY

said by FAQFixer

:

It doesn't matter what side of the argument you're on this is pure bullcrap propaganda. It's funny how some can clearly see right through any propaganda put out by Corporate America and see it for what it is. Yet those same people some how believe that there are unbiased gandmas with no connection to this lobbying group spontaneously voicing outrage.

I wish I was a lobbying group with lots of money, but... no. Stop the Cap! is mostly me, joined by a handful of volunteers who write columns and help sort through the ton of e-mailed comment forms I get. Unlike this site, we have a lot of people who aren't prone to writing public comments, but send us things they write on the "contact us" form.

I routinely get a ton of comments from people, usually asking questions or just venting about the cable company. I even helped several people install their DTV converters because they weren't really aware of "our issues" but thought we were related enough to ask questions.

The AT&T article set off a number of people who vented their anger. Some of those comments were much longer and went on to complain about their phone bills or bad service in general. The quotes you saw were taken from the originals. To be honest, the Time Warner nonsense in April generated MUCH more heat. We had teenage girls crying on the phone because their parents pulled their Internet connection out of fear of running over. One woman, who was laid off and her husband is a police officer, agreed to have a letter she sent to the cable company reprinted on our site, which we did.

The Time Warner protest rally in Rochester wasn't all male either... several women, young and old, attended. I was not surprised to see the push back from these people, and thought it was appropriate to let people know, including AT&T, that they cannot simply hoodwink people into a scam like their Internet Overcharging nonsense.

The bigger point here is that I do not receive one penny of industry money, decided against even running ads on the website out of fear an Overcharger provider might sneak through contextual ad campaigns, and it's entirely a volunteer affair exclusively for and about consumers... just like me.

permalink · 2009-06-23 17:21:13 · Print ·

FAQFixer Premium join:2004-06-28 Powder Springs, GA	Re: If it on the internet it must be true Dampier, I stand corrected. Typically, Karl's news commentaries are quite biased with links and quotes from interesting or obscure (and sometimes dubious) sources when they support his viewpoint. I made the mistake of thinking this was one of his normal pieces and jumped the gun.
	permalink · 2009-06-24 09:05:02 ·

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech

4 edits

Re: If it on the internet it must be true

I stand corrected. Typically, Karl's news commentaries are quite biased with links and quotes from interesting or obscure (and sometimes dubious) sources when they support his viewpoint.

Classy. Yes, one man's bias is another man's unblemished truth. Usually, the whining about bias (this is a PRO CONSUMER WEBSITE!) comes from people ironically getting paid by the companies I'm criticizing, which I always find to be a good joke.

If you ever have any factual corrections I'll certainly be happy to hear them, but the vague allegation of bias is kind of useless metric, 9 times out of ten used around here by ISP employs who'd prefer I simply regurgitate their employer's clearly unbiased press releases.

permalink · 2009-06-24 13:24:22 · Print ·

jkeelsnc

join:2008-08-22
Boone, NC

AT&T doesn't know what its doing

Dear AT&T,

Do you realize how ignorant you are? Have you ever heard of the character Sophia Petrillo from the Golden Girls? Well, perhaps you should watch an episode because this is the kind of "granny" your going to anger with this BS. I guarantee a few will be glad to call and cuss at you. I don't want to see that happen. However, your inviting it with this nonsense.

I have no sympathies at all. Grannies of the world be ready and don't be afraid to speak your minds.

permalink · 2009-06-23 11:55:19 ·

John Keels

@bellsouth.net

Re: AT&T doesn't know what its doing

Please excuse me on one part. My posts were connected to some messages posted by those who understood what I was saying about caps, etc.

My posts were not directed at you guys. Though it may appear that way. Speicifically, my posts were direct at italian from CT and nova from VA.

So, if I offended someone who understood what i was saying then I apologize.

Btw, Nova, since you live in cul de sac land I am glad you paid for your own street. That sprawled mess is too expensive for the government to afford to provide sewer, water, roads etc that far out of town in the first place. As for the gated community, thats ridiculous.

permalink · 2009-06-23 20:04:08 · Print ·

thejosherrr

@comcast.net

comcast and there 250gb

i go past 300 gigs all the time but comcast does not send me warnings but i think they let it slide because there are now 4 brodband providers were i live and i pay a shit load for there hd dvr and premium channels my normal bill from comcast is around 140-180 bucks so if and when i get a first warning from them that very day i am droping all my comcast services and turning in my gear at the comcast sales office that is 3 blocks from my apartment....

permalink · 2009-06-23 12:01:23 ·

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC

·Skype

Re: comcast and there 250gb

said by thejosherrr :

i go past 300 gigs all the time but comcast does not send me warnings but i think they let it slide because there are now 4 brodband providers were i live and i pay a shit load for there hd dvr and premium channels my normal bill from comcast is around 140-180 bucks so if and when i get a first warning from them that very day i am droping all my comcast services and turning in my gear at the comcast sales office that is 3 blocks from my apartment....

I think they let it slide because you're not one of their top 1,000 users for the month. That's the second threshold that you have to cross to get "the call."
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL

permalink · 2009-06-23 12:07:52 · Print ·

yt Premium join:2008-06-03	Re: comcast and there 250gb said by funchords : I think they let it slide because you're not one of their top 1,000 users for the month. That's the second threshold that you have to cross to get "the call." So that helps with the year over year growth without having to publicly state a new number (damned if you do, damned if you don't)
	permalink · 2009-06-23 13:32:35 ·

funchords Hello Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Washington, DC	Re: comcast and there 250gb There's nothing but good PR in stating a new, higher number.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 13:43:56 ·

sonicmerlin join:2009-05-24 Cleveland, OH	Wow 4 providers. Sigh all I have are TWC and AT&T (no U-verse...sigh). I've had the same service from TWC for 7 years now. Not even a single upgrade in speed for 7 years. Well, actually my speed has decreased to where I can't get over 2Mbps during the day. Jolly good company, TWC is. Jolly good.
	permalink · 2009-06-23 20:44:42 ·

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo

·Skype

Wrong group to upset!

If these are truly grandmothers who are upset with AT&T's tactics and word is spreading, AT&T is going to be in for a real firestorm.

First, senior citizens are typically more involved in voting and interacting with their elected officials.

Second, many are retired and have a little time to spare when writing angry letters to corporations and their elected officials.

If the AARP puts this in a newsletter, AT&T may be in big trouble. . .

--
Tradition: Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid. --despair.com

permalink · 2009-06-23 12:58:49 · Print ·

baineschile 2600 Premium join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI	grandmas most grandmas cant turn on a computer, let alone meter their own bandwidth
	permalink · 2009-06-23 14:58:01 ·

Doctor Olds I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me. Premium,VIP join:2001-04-19 1970 442 W30 clubs:	Re: grandmas said by baineschile : most grandmas cant turn on a computer, let alone meter their own bandwidth Wow, that is pure misinformation. Why are you making up FUD and posting like it is some kind of fact. -- What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?
	permalink · 2009-06-23 15:30:15 · Print ·

DownTheShore
Maddie Knows Poopie
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
clubs:

You Go, Grandmas!

quote:
"We grandmothers know a ripoff when we see one," says one poster. "I’m insulted AT&T thinks grandmothers like myself would be dumb enough to fall for their scams," says another. "Now grandfathers might be something else, which is why I pay the bills in this house," she says.

ROTFLMAO!

Based upon my own family observations, so true.

--
Patriotism is not waving a flag, it is living the ideals

Bush & Co. didn't keep us safe - 9/11 happend on their watch!

permalink · 2009-06-23 15:13:08 · Print ·

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

·Comcast

·Embarq

AT&T along with the other ISP's needs a regulatory procto.

These weasels think that consumers will put up with their Bull Feces. Like many politicians these jerks continue to lie to consumers and believe that consumers are too stupid to realize that the ISP's are simply trying to deceive them. AT&T along with the other ISP's need to be treated like the AT&T's Bell System of the 1930's and have their services declared a monopoly and have their pricing and terms and conditions regulated.

In the mid thirties the Federal Government wanted to step in and prevent AT&T from buying up all of the Independent Telephone Companies in order to set predatory pricing. AT&T agreed to be declared a monopoly and to be regulated.

The Government will never reach it's objectives for wide spread affordable broadband deployment if they do not regulate all ISP's.

permalink · 2009-06-23 16:05:04 · Print ·

jkeelsnc

join:2008-08-22
Boone, NC

amazing

This is what democracy is about. I am glad that my posts spawned debate. Republicans hate it. They'd rather do as Bush did and sweep the secrets they don't want known under the rug.

Nonetheless, we are all able to have our own opinions. I am glad this is happening.

Nonetheless, Glass-Steagall actually was repealed during the Clinton Admin and it is something I hold against him along with NAFTA.

Anyway, I am glad that this healthy debate is occuring. It airs out people's frustrations and hopefully something positive can be done with it.

As for the Free Market. Throughout the last 50 years the Free Market worked best with companies who had a responsible, ethical approach to doing business. Unfettered Free Market, Capitalism leads to drastics.

I am sure some of you have heard of the DeBeers/Anglo American company. That is a drastic. However, it is an example of where unchecked and unregulated capitalism without accountability leads to abuse and the profit for a few people at the tremendous expense and exploitation of others.

If you don't believe me than watch the old Frontline Episode about DeBeers or just do some research into the company and how they do business and you will understand better why unfettered capitalism is a real mistake. Unchecked it becomes just as mean as totalitarianism or the screwed up version of communism that the USSR had. Profit without regulation becomes profit at the expense of society and of people.

Thanks.

permalink · 2009-06-23 16:39:33 · Print ·

touchtone561

join:2007-12-10
Lake Worth, FL

Faux Free Market and Faux ISPs - vote for "Dumb Pipe"

There is no true free market in U.S. Telecommunications.
Telco is a national asset and ownership is Federally regulated. That is why there isn't a foreign owned (e.g. T-mobile) landline service.

Your ISPs are not really ISPs but side businesses for a main product. Cable has Video, and Telephone has Voice, until the internet came around.
Now they have both.

Funny how Internet provided new features for the incumbent carriers that they didn't have before.

And they want to control any future innovation or intrusion by capping the bandwidth.

If it were a "free market" AT&T Mobility would offer a 200 MB, a 5 GB, and an unlimited data for whomever would pay the rate - but they don't.

What are these companies selling Speed or GB of data?

permalink · 2009-06-23 17:10:24 · Print ·

notwrth10 join:2007-03-03 1001EB	HEY GRANDMA! YOU WERE SOLD OUT BY DSLREPORTS.COM A LONG TIME AGO! CLICK HERE: »Editorial: Caps are welcome You were sold out a long time ago and now this site is complaining and trying to get around the 180 spin they wrote. it's funny when I read these articles about "capping=bad" when this site (and it's owner) stated they were welcome!!
	permalink · 2009-06-23 19:20:08 ·

S_engineer join:2007-05-16 Chicago, IL ·Comcast	Re: HEY GRANDMA! if that were true, there would be mass cencorship of the dissenting opinions,of which clearly there are many. There are people that bring valid points regarding the stresses the video content is putting on networks. Those points can not be discarded. And killing the messenger proves to be useless as well. -- BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils!
	permalink · 2009-06-23 21:55:08 ·

notwrth10

join:2007-03-03
1001EB