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Comments on news posted 2009-06-26 17:17:45: It's been a few months since the last time a mobile broadband user received a roaming bandwidth bill that required a second mortgage, so we were clearly overdue. ..

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Wizeguy7

join:2008-08-23
Safety Harbor, FL

It's all about caps

When you think about it because of a few bad apples that like to download huge files as their day job. All these carriers imposed caps on everyone. I just wonder how much research went into establishing the cap. Did they look at the data and say 80% of our customer use 6G's a month so lets go with 5! As private companies they don't have to disclose how they came to conclusion that 5G's would be plenty for the bulk of their customers. Sorry if I see something sinister here but if you get your bill and you went over by 2 or 3 bucks it's no big deal and you pay it. But if this happens to 6 or 10 million customers every month your start talking some serious cash.

"Big business has us by the short hairs"

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to Maccawolf

Re: Myth BUSTED

if he is smart the phone is registered to the show or M5, that way they can just write the 11k bill off come tax time as an expense!
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
reply to Matt3

Re: This Day and Age

said by Matt3:

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

said by morbo:

they can, they just don't want to.

why? they make more money this way. they've run the numbers with providing instant feedback or at least, daily feedback on usage to users vs. dealing with negative PR from these types of stories. you can tell the choice they have made.
No they can't because when you "roam" AT&T has to wait for the other provider to bill AT&T with the data usage so therefore usage is lagged.

No matter what ANY provider says (pointing at LiamJunket) they cannot provide instant up to date information with data that comes from different networks. In order for "instant feedback" to work, the providers would actually have to *work* with each other instead of bickering, complaining, and lying like little children. And you will always have that one oddball provider out in the middle of nowhere that no major carrier cares enough to invite into their "roaming billing system".
Why can't they even provide up-to-date information for domestic usage on their OWN network?
That's a good question which I don't have the answer to - perhaps they treat all data (voice/data/text) as "roaming" data and want to make sure everything is billed correctly (haha I joke)?

But I know the reason why the data isn't instant for when you "roam" is correct, and makes perfect sense - otherwise I have no idea, lets go ask them.

Honestly I think when I get my bill I should see every packet, the size, what tower it came from and other information like the actual text in a text message. But that's just me .

33358088
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2

Do i see a AT&T phone GOING BOOM soon?

haha even a person i thought was smart wasn't so. the fees associated are all ridiculous. BUT YOU SIGNED UP WITH AND FOR IT BUDDY.


marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2
reply to iansltx

Re: My 2¢

Here's another fun one... since I deal with web mapping applications and know the size of data those push around.
Go to google maps with the satellite with labels view. enter an address. Get Directions, enter the second address and get your results. Don't even do any scrolling. How much data did you just push around? Now, follow your turn by turn directions for, say, the last two turns before the destination.
That's a pretty common scenario. Someone lost in a foreign city uses their 3g laptop or phone as an emergency. Congratulations, you just rang up 2500-3000 KB of usage for a $35-$45 bill. Next time take a cab. (The 20MB for $25/month package wouldn't help you here, since even did happen to get it in case of emergency and remembered to cancel as soon as you got back, the $25 plus the $36 activation free will still cost even more than your google map directions, or a cab ride.)
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bn1221

join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY
Reviews:
·TowerStream
reply to Karl Bode

Re: This Day and Age

Verizon has this:

I get an email (as company administrator) when my BB or Aircards get to 90% of the data limit. So I get emails at 200MB or so onthe 250 MB card and 4.something GB on my 5 GB cards.

ATT should do the same....but then they won't get all the yummy overage fees.


marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2

What's a data session?

So, in looking through the data plan TOS, I noticed this all caps tidbit:
DATA TRANSPORT IS BILLED IN FULL-KILOBYTE INCREMENTS, AND ACTUAL TRANSPORT IS ROUNDED UP TO THE NEXT FULL-KILOBYTE INCREMENT AT THE END OF EACH DATA SESSION FOR BILLING PURPOSES. AT&T CHARGES A FULL KILOBYTE OF DATA TRANSPORT FOR EVERY FRACTION OF THE LAST KILOBYTE OF DATA TRANSPORT USED ON EACH DATA SESSION.
»www.wireless.att.com/learn/messa···ices.jsp
Which leads to this question... what is a data session?
Is it when I sign on and sign off again (it's not, AT&T does not have a direct way to track this)? Is it a distinct period of inactivity? Is it every new type of activity? Is it every single download initiated? I don't know, because it is not defined anywhere in the services terms and conditions.
Not in the page above.
Not at »www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-···erms.jsp.
Not here »www.wireless.att.com/businesscen···able.jsp.
Not here »www.wireless.att.com/businesscen···8308.pdf.

And this is not even getting AT&Tcharging you for network overhead and packet resends (even if they never reach you). Which means that even if you monitor your usage at the laptop, you have no way of knowing how much that usage has inflated from bad packets on the network. Imagine getting a network timeout the first time you try to access google maps. The google maps base page is 320KB. You might have just spent $4.80 on a page you never even saw. Get a greyed out tile? It still cost you 35 cents, and will cost you another 35 cents to reload it.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Jodokast96

Re: Myth BUSTED

said by Jodokast96:

said by KrazyDawg:

Isn't NJ the state attempting to pass a law to ban GPS operation in cars?

»www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,528088,00.html
God, I hate these assholes.
It would probably be like the cell phone ban. A stupid feel good measure that is hardly enforced.

soitgoes2
Premium
join:2005-01-14
reply to Thislilfishy

Re: More bell thievery!

said by Thislilfishy:

I wanted an Iphone but it's either Rogers or Fido and Fido is getting the short end of the stick from Rogers...so their rates are a bit wonky.
Fido is owned by Rogers.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fido_Solutions


drew
Radiant
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
kudos:6
reply to bn1221

Re: This Day and Age

But when is that? I mean is it the second you hit 200 or 4.something GB? Or is it 12 hours later? Could the user go check that themselves?

See what we're getting at here? The systems are designed to trap the end user into paying for overages. Always.

This is no different than those payday advance places: they prey on the ignorant and uninformed. Shameful, really.
--
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fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to KrazyDawg

Re: Myth BUSTED

said by KrazyDawg:

Isn't NJ the state attempting to pass a law to ban GPS operation in cars?

»www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,528088,00.html
NJ also just passed the one gun a month bill.

bn1221

join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY
reply to Matt3

Re: This Day and Age

I got it 15 minutes after the threshold. Even it it was an hour it would still be more useful than that ATT does.


drew
Radiant
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Port Orchard, WA
kudos:6
That's certainly reasonable.

ErikRP

join:2004-11-06
Winnipeg, MB
reply to tdumaine

Re: ATT rates

I loved Adam's comment though about AT&T saying ".015 cents = 1.5 cents". Obviously AT&T meant $.015.

We wouldn't have these problems if we had a silly cents symbol on the keyboard.


Derch
Premium
join:2004-10-16
Cross Plains, WI

So what.

I rent local cell phones when I go on international trips just in case folks need to get a hold of me. Sorry, but I don't care what everyone says (both in BBR and around town) about the convince of taking your personal cell on trips across the US border and how companies clam you have an allowance for international roaming (if that was the case... didn't dissect this thread yet and I don't care too). All I know is that I don't trust companies regardless of what they say.

AT&T is still trying to bill me for a U-verse package at my home that never worked. And they promised to waive all charges months ago. That there speaks mountains about a company that offers international services.

BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3
reply to Maccawolf

Re: To those who think he should just pay the bill

If they charge $X for Y-GB while lying about being 'unlimited', then insane overage after, why not just lower the overage amounts, and cap the charges at two plans $X+X? As others have said too, there is no way that much data cost that much.

There is also some obvious discrepancies on the data usage, or they don't know the difference between a bit and a byte even at bast 10.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to FFH5

Re: People don't know what a GB is...

Due to website bloat, it takes 20 seconds to render ebay.com on a Pentium 2 in Firefox. »m.ebay.com/ is a blink of an eye on a Pentium 2. »m.ebay.com/ is how all websites should be. 100s of KBs of JS and Flash and CSS and table layouts kill all the advances of Moore's law.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to Unit649

Re: Expert?!? HA!

Remember some international providers from 3rd world nations like to send bills of random cellphones to American carriers. Verizon Wireless for example doesn't let you roam internationally unless you unlock your account first with a call to CS. Otherwise a nigerian cellphone provider will stuff a bill with fake calls to Zimbabwe from your randomly chosen phone number.

quote:
You must add the International Dialing feature (I-Dial) to your account before you leave the U.S. in order to be able to roam using your existing phone in any international destination other than Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Canada, Guam, Jamaica, Saipan, and the United States Virgin Islands. I-Dial eligibility restrictions apply.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to pnh102

Re: This is Stupid

Wage garnishment.


Michail
Premium
join:2000-08-02
Boynton Beach, FL
kudos:1
reply to a333

Re: Hardly surprising...

I'd like to know how 9 Gigs of data transfer is worth that much money? Even if we're talking Antarctica or the moon.

Does the CEO of AT&T personally have to calculate the bill by hand to justify that kind of cost?

Did they have to chase after Adam on his trip, erecting temporary antennas?

We're talking 3 orders of magnitude from a normal bill.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to Thislilfishy

Re: More bell thievery!

said by Thislilfishy:

Regardless of TOC, or EULA's, no one can tell me that 9G of data transfer costs anywhere near $11G! I don't give a flying 'F' where you did that data transfer from!

Ian
Homing pigeon backhaul, 1 packet on a fortune cookie sized paper in 2d matrix barcode per bird.


Michail
Premium
join:2000-08-02
Boynton Beach, FL
kudos:1
reply to fifty nine

Re: Myth BUSTED

said by fifty nine:

said by KrazyDawg:

Isn't NJ the state attempting to pass a law to ban GPS operation in cars?

»www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,528088,00.html
NJ also just passed the one gun a month bill.
It's not really as bad as it sounds. They just don't want you to program the GPS while driving. It's not a good idea to do that anyway but I don't think it's worth making a law.

When I rented a GPS it came with the moving lock enabled. I disabled it so it could be operated by a passenger.

Ulmo

join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to pnh102

Re: This is Stupid

Yes, and their international providers would also have to participate in that capping. It would also require that billing generally be an instant entity, rather than the non-instant entity it currently is. I think the former would be easier than the latter: there's a lot of profit in not informing the consumer what they owe.


Bor

@telus.net
reply to PapaMidnight

Re: This Day and Age

said by PapaMidnight:

I don't if Sprint has a cap. If they do, that image alone is enough to get any such cost for breaking a cap thrown out if someone sought to do so in court. It clearly says unlimited there. That would be false advertising if I ever saw it.
WTH does that have to do with anything? The guy posted to show it's possible to track usage, and that's all.


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to patcat88

Re: People don't know what a GB is...

said by patcat88:

Due to website bloat, it takes 20 seconds to render ebay.com on a Pentium 2 in Firefox. »m.ebay.com/ is a blink of an eye on a Pentium 2. »m.ebay.com/ is how all websites should be. 100s of KBs of JS and Flash and CSS and table layouts kill all the advances of Moore's law.
Yes.Even on my very fast home desktop PC, I often prefer many of the slimmed down mobile sites than their bloated regular web sites.
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Bor

@telus.net
reply to 33358088

Re: Do i see a AT&T phone GOING BOOM soon?

said by 33358088:

haha even a person i thought was smart wasn't so. the fees associated are all ridiculous. BUT YOU SIGNED UP WITH AND FOR IT BUDDY.
How many times does it have to be said, he's disputing the amount they say he transferred? He didn't sign up to be billed for some random arbitrary amount of data that he didn't even use.

Thislilfishy

join:2008-10-28
Orangeville, ON
kudos:1
reply to soitgoes2

Re: More bell thievery!

said by soitgoes2:

said by Thislilfishy:

I wanted an Iphone but it's either Rogers or Fido and Fido is getting the short end of the stick from Rogers...so their rates are a bit wonky.
Fido is owned by Rogers.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fido_Solutions
Yeah, I couldn't remember if it was owned by Rogers, or if they just purchased the data bandwidth from them. Either way, their base plans are pretty decent, but the data plans are horrible (1G per month!!).

Ian


jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
reply to iansltx

Re: My 2¢

How do you propose they put a gatekeeper page on a foreign carrier's service?

Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL

1 recommendation

reply to Maccawolf

Re: To those who think he should just pay the bill

said by Maccawolf:

Yes, but even unlimited data on AT&T has an invisible cap of 5G. In other words, unlimited with AT&T really isn't unlimited. And from what I understand. (I don't, so I don't worry about it), tethering is a big NO-NO. Not saying that he did, but just that it's forbidden
they now have a 5gb plan that you pay per kb after 5gb


MSauk
MSauk
Premium
join:2002-01-17
Sandy, UT
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Derch

Re: So what.

to me the issue is the amount we pay per not that he went over. He went over and that is his fault, but we are paying like 200% or higher then what should be charged.

That is the issue with me.
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