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Comments on news posted 2009-07-08 16:10:28: Ok, sure, Charter Communications hasn't been profitable since the company went public in 1999, posted a $2. ..

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koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

1 recommendation

reply to FFH5

Re: Pay for performance is just for the little fish, eh?

said by FFH5:

...
So what you're essentially saying is that the "business concept" -- that is to say, the methodology used to decide and negotiate said CEO's salary -- is flawed. If so: I'll agree with that.

But if that's true, I'm wondering why you own shares of any company? Seems you'd be smarter than to risk investing in something that's as shaky as stocks.

I'm one of those people that says "stock isn't real/worth anything until its cash in your bank account". This blows the minds of most people, especially those who put a lot of focus on stock and options. I don't believe in the stock market as a whole (read: I don't believe it's an effective economic environment), because all it amounts to these days is a form of legalised gambling. Every person -- I repeat, every person -- I know who owns stock in companies or "plays the market" is doing so for one reason: to try and make money. They really couldn't care less if there's economic repercussions from this idiocy (like said CEO's contractually-negotiated salary) -- they just want their money. The company they invested in fails? They still want their money. It's like a casino where no one loses... except those who don't go to the casino. Someone has to lose, and "who cares, as long as it's not me!"

Please don't take what I say on a personal level (honestly, please don't), I just think the sooner we stop basing our economic stature around something as fallible as the stock market -- which indirectly means hiring CEOs like this chucklef*** and other whatnots, ditto with allowing these fools to be given such large sums of material wealth (whether it be in shared or in cash) -- the sooner the country as a whole will be better off. Today's mentality behind how to build a company and how to run a company is bad, because the driving force is bad.

Even if Smit was to quit Charter right now and walk, he'd be hired at some other company (and probably not a start-up) to "fix things", and continue his downward spiral, destroying things as he goes. What is it going to take for people to put a lid on folks like this? Seriously: these people can walk in, destroy a company, and walk out like there's no repercussions of their decisions or actions. Don't argue with me either, because this kind of "business behaviour" has been going on for quite some time now.

I seriously feel like the only person on Earth who doesn't focus on monetary or material gain. If I want money, I work 40 hours a week, and do actual effort. If my efforts are crap, I'm fired -- it's that simple. And that's exactly how it should be when it comes to these shmucks...
--
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I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to Rogue Wolf
said by Rogue Wolf:

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Boards need to think beyond the next quarterly report and set up a beneficial long-term strategy for the company for which they are responsible. Getting a 'big name guy' in the CEO's chair should matter much less than getting someone who can be trusted to grow the company responsibly. Millions of people go to work every day knowing that their compensation and continued employment depend on how well they execute their responsibilities... why should CEOs be any different?
Boards don't think. They show up reluctantly once or twice a year for a few hours since they are paid little if anything. They never read in deep, or have someone from the corp explain to them the proposals by phone the day before to get rubberstamped the next day. All the members have day jobs at other fortune 500s or in govt. Boards only exist to recruit investors and job placement obligations for their college frat/secret society buddies.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to anon51

Re: Paid for failure

said by anon51 :

It seems the more of a MORON you are, the higher the salary you get.
Welcome to America !!!!
The higher the salary, the more qualified you are for the next job.


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to koitsu

Re: Pay for performance is just for the little fish, eh?

said by koitsu:

Don't argue with me either, because this kind of "business behaviour" has been going on for quite some time now.

I seriously feel like the only person on Earth who doesn't focus on monetary or material gain. If I want money, I work 40 hours a week, and do actual effort.
Who could argue with you? Your mind is made up. Why bother?
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FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to patcat88
said by patcat88:

They show up reluctantly once or twice a year
quote:
Most boards meet much more than that- often once or twice a month in person and more frequently by phone
for a few hours since they are paid little if anything
quote:
I wish that were true. Benefits for board members often run to tens of thousands of dollars per mtg
. They never read in deep, or have someone from the corp explain to them the proposals by phone the day before to get rubberstamped the next day.
quote:
unfortunately for many board members that is true
All the members have day jobs at other fortune 500s or in govt.
quote:
Some do. But many are retired CEOs, CFOs, etc and most boards now have members from academia & community organizations
Boards only exist to recruit investors and job placement obligations for their college frat/secret society buddies.
quote:
some truth in that statement, but they do have fiduciary responsibilities that many take seriously. They can be sued if they don't act in a legal manner

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patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to koitsu
said by koitsu:

I seriously feel like the only person on Earth who doesn't focus on monetary or material gain. If I want money, I work 40 hours a week, and do actual effort. If my efforts are crap, I'm fired -- it's that simple. And that's exactly how it should be when it comes to these shmucks...
Sounds like you want a capitalism/bourgeoisie free world, goto Laos, North Korea, Cuba, or Burma.

Making money by only owning money is the american way. If that doesn't work, start a bank, and print money yourself (federal funds loan currently .25% APR / sell 39.95% APR loans to anyone with a SSN and a pulse, then securitize the loan away), or you can do the old fashioned insider trading, and split the profits with the CEO through a Cayman bank account.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to MSauk

Re: Too much infreeding

said by MSauk:

man why can't I get sweet jobs like this?
Your not of the right cut.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoIvd3zzu4Y


Zen6

@rr.com
reply to anon51

Re: Paid for failure

As a consumer I have to agree that TW has been, and is run by complete morons. They currently have their bi weekly 3 day giveaway of service, thats where they try to increase sub numbers by giving away service. It is too bad there are still people who would buy stock in companies like this, then to have their money wiped out by mismanagement from the top down. Charter did this giveaway gimmick, as did adelphia just before they went under.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

2 edits
reply to Chiyo

Re: Its hard working losing that money

said by Chiyo:

Man it must be awfully hard work losing that kind of money I wonder if they have a toilet in a fancy bathroom but you don't poop in it oh no you thrown 100's down the drain. maybe get side by side have races who's 100 goes down faster?

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqcbgSpHMFs


i1me2ao
Premium
join:2001-03-03
TEXAS

i still fail

to see where these morons are worth this much money to fail. i read they pay to attract talent, where in the hell is the talent???????????????????????
--
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Pv8man

join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN

1 recommendation

reply to gorehound

Re: $hit floats!

Ya, I understand what you are trying to say.

but I don't think that Gov can do any better.

Sometimes, I pray some of these companies would finally fail...

so they can be done with, so someone else can fill in it's place and try.

sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
reply to fiberguy
Actually the people do take an active role in government, in the form of consumer groups and activists. It's the politicians who don't really care what those consumer groups have to say, as they depend on the money and support given to them by big corporations.

You can't expect a nation of hundreds of millions of voters to pay attention to every detail and elect only the perfect candidate. That's if there even is a "perfect" candidate, considering the usual 2 party system.

Competition didn't down Charter. They hardly face any real competition. All it requires is a minimal amount of basic management skills for a company in their position to be profitable. It truly was gross incompetence.

A good example of how incompetent these large ISPs are is Cogeco. Its attempts to go international utterly failed, as they were quickly driven out of the foreign market by much tougher competition in the form of competently run companies.

Most of these ISPs would go under very quickly with the massive overhead and bonuses they spend their finances on year after year if they actually had to face real competition.
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Boredness
The Lurker
Premium
join:2005-07-07
In Limbo

Unfreaking believable

Wow just wow, it's people like him that are bringing down America. Nothing will be done about this because nobody has the balls to stop corruption. We will always forgive and forget.

Gee I wish I could get richer by sitting on my ass all day watching my company go bankrupt and not do a damn thing about it because I'm already set for life.
--
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charter_user

@charter.com

Define Failure

ok, let me get this straight. This guy takes over Charter like 2-3 years ago, when its in the worst shape of it's short lived life, makes it more profitable than it's ever been (I believe they made over a Billion last year alone), gets them into Chapter 11, gets 8 Billion shaved off the 20 billion in debt they owe, and most importantly, looks to have them emerging soon from Chapter 11 being able to operate on free cash flow, no longer needing to borrow money just to pay their bills.

This is a failure?

I think some of you take Karl's word as the gospel here. Do any of you follow the whole Charter situation? Heck one guy here was passing judgment on the picture alone. I must be missing something, or is everyone just brainwashed by Karl opinions? He, and his team, may be the best thing that has ever happened to Charter.


pspcrazy
Anime Freak

join:2008-02-06
San Diego, CA

Where can I sign up?

Man times like these I sometimes wish they picked me as the CEO, any idea's how to get started? I most likely could actually make them some profit.
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My Anime Site - AnimeCrazy.net


pspcrazy
Anime Freak

join:2008-02-06
San Diego, CA
reply to charter_user

Re: Define Failure

Yes that is what we call a failure, it seems like he hasn't made the user experience any better, not the speeds, nor the customer service. All he's done is pocketed the company money. A company which hasn't turned a profit for 10 years, shouldn't exist period. 2-4 years loss is normal, 10 is just laughable.
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jadinolf
I love you Fred
Premium
join:2005-07-09
Ojai, CA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
reply to patcat88

Re: $hit floats!

said by patcat88:

said by en102:

Lets see... they paid him $7.4 mil in CASH, and the companies market cap is $9.08 mil. All I can say is WTF! Are they stupid!
Time for me to refinance my house and buy Charter for the heck of it
Just take a loan for $38 and buy it.
--
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to sonicmerlin
People take a role in government? Um... I strongly disagree with you.. you may want to look up the number of eligible voters and how many of them actually show up to the polls to vote. Not to mention, it's more than just voting.. as for activists and consumer groups? ... or as I call them, special interests.. they think about themselves and the people that think like they do. All those groups do is usually cause more problems. Activists are THE worst.. any idea how much progress gets held up as we study the habits of the spotted tree frog before actually building up much needed infrustructure?

And - I DO expect voters to pay attention to detail.. that's part of the responsibility and privileged of voting.. however, people are idiots - plain and simple. They vote on the same wedge issues all the time. Remember the comment about clinging to guns and religion? ... that couldn't have been said better. People think that this country is going to be fine as soon as you keep the gays out of the way, stop unborn baby killing, keep prayer in schools, and social security - gotta keep the old people interested too.

Competition DID have a roll in Charters issues.. when you have satellite, which is competition, offering a service cheaper damn near over night, it quickly erodes an already off-guard cable operator such as charter who largely serves rural areas.

There is real competition in this country - maybe not in your view.. but there IS competition in this country.. competition and offerings are subjective to the environment around it. This country is NOT Japan, it's NOT South Korea or China, it's NOT any other country that Utopian's here want.. in the U.S., OUR system has competition when it comes to video - many people have three choices and they exercise them all the time.

You talk about running a company is being so simple.. I hope you never find yourself in that position becuase you'd be the next BBR article being bashed by every arm chair quarterback on the site. Running a corporation is not "simple".. its quite complicated.. and while the company went down on this guys' watch doesn't mean that he was an idiot..
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

1 edit
reply to pizz

Re: I wonder where is..

Your post wins the daily boob award.

I guess Karl is god and all said is right.. so why offer comments.. is that for letting the bashing begin? .. are you so one minded that you can only see one side of things?

.. sad.

.. besides, what does a failed company and a CEO have to do with ANYTHING of defense of a cable company..? Pretty much shows narrow mindedness.


Retired6
Premium
join:2002-11-09
Earth

Nice !

Yeah, meng.....make that money !


cork1958
Cork
Premium
join:2000-02-26

Only in America

Only in America could a company that is ran this bad, stay alive.

I guess that part is a good thing, but to pay this guy double his previous salary is totally asinine!!
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P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
Premium
join:2001-08-29
way way out
Reviews:
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reply to FFH5

Re: Pay for performance is just for the little fish, eh?

said by FFH5:

said by morbo:

Where is the logic in doubling this guy's salary? I know it's the titanic he's driving, but still. That is pretty dumb even for Charter.
As a stockholder in many companies I don't want to see overpaid execs even more so than many people here that hate corporations.

BUT, please remember that Charter probably didn't have any choice in what they paid the CEO in 2008. When he was hired the company signed a CONTRACT with his compensation no doubt laid out in pages of excruciating detail and checked over by a group of lawyers hired by Smit. They had a choice when negotiating the contract, but after that their hands are tied.

So, don't look for logic when trying to understand why an under-performing company doubled a CEO's salary after a bad year. That ship no doubt sailed before 2008 results were known.

What is needed are Boards of Directors that negotiate CONTRACTS that are tied much more tightly to meeting profit goals and not just the desire to get a so-called superstar CEO. And there should be terms that allow firing without any golden parachutes if the goals aren't met.

Will that mean, the Board won't always get the person they want? YES!! But if more Boards followed this practice, then prices will come down on CEO salaries and more accountability will be in the contracts.
so you dont know the little secret huh?
how must board members used to be CEO's....and how they work together to make sure they help each other out...regardless of how retarded the contract is.

every contract i sign with my clients and employees have performance clauses, "for cause" clauses, and other tools that let me really stick it to people who fuck up and fuck up badly....but for some reason these CEO contracts are iron clad always in favor of the CEO.

its even worse then baseball.

the corporate structure at most companies now is just one big joke of making as much money as you possibly can and getting out with a can full of gold
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moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
reply to patcat88
said by patcat88:

Boards don't think. They show up reluctantly once or twice a year for a few hours since they are paid little if anything. They never read in deep, or have someone from the corp explain to them the proposals by phone the day before to get rubberstamped the next day. All the members have day jobs at other fortune 500s or in govt. Boards only exist to recruit investors and job placement obligations for their college frat/secret society buddies.
Actually, they do think...about each other.

The members of the boards often sit on multiple ones and many members are CEOs of their own companies. So while one guys gets his "compensation" approved at one meeting, he approves the compensation of another fellow member at another meeting. Most look for short term payoffs instead of long term viability and that is why companies really need to start treating CEOs as owners; get paid when you do well.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to patcat88

Re: $hit floats!

ya go for it
you could revolutionize the Cable ISP business

geonap
lolatidiots

join:2005-12-14
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
reply to charter_user

Re: Define Failure

said by charter_user :

ok, let me get this straight. This guy takes over Charter like 2-3 years ago, when its in the worst shape of it's short lived life, makes it more profitable than it's ever been (I believe they made over a Billion last year alone), gets them into Chapter 11, gets 8 Billion shaved off the 20 billion in debt they owe, and most importantly, looks to have them emerging soon from Chapter 11 being able to operate on free cash flow, no longer needing to borrow money just to pay their bills.

This is a failure?

I think some of you take Karl's word as the gospel here. Do any of you follow the whole Charter situation? Heck one guy here was passing judgment on the picture alone. I must be missing something, or is everyone just brainwashed by Karl opinions? He, and his team, may be the best thing that has ever happened to Charter.
hey Neil Smit, give me some of your monies.. i thought corporate would block your access to dslreports.com from the office.
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