 neftv
join:2000-10-01
Broomall, PA Reviews:
 ·SIP Global Phone
·QuantumVoice
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Unions Never really liked them. There was a time a place for them but now days, give me a break. Country going down the tubes because of them. They never saved me when I was laid off from a University I worked at few years back. Don't get me started.
I guess Verizon don't need installers since they lay them off since Mass and RI is fully wired. | |
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 | Reviews:
 ·Comcast
| Re: Unions Mass is anything but fully wired.
I think the economy is going down the tubes for more reasons then just the unions. I was laid off recently as well , and union was not the reason.
I think what we are due to see happen is a drastic cut in the labor force so people can still be "highly paid" and then when it grows again people will be paid much less. Another meltdown will happen and the high paid will be cut in favor of the lower paid.
This cycle will keep happening until we get over our greed marker , which I doubt will happen any time soon. The major issue here is greed not just the unions , and this country just wants to keep bailing out companies , instead of letting them fail and making other countries investments fail.
Countries like china can feel free to call in on it's debt , we will pay it and every other country can as well. our dollar won't be worth jack and it might actually bring humility back to the us.
We have 99 bad problems and the union is not 1.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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| |  Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika | Re: Unions Tell that to the IBEW worker who busted his ass and still got laid off so that some lazy sh!thead who had been there a little longer could keep his job.
Greed or not, if people are hired and fired it should be based solely on their need and job performance, not how long they floated around the union toilet bowl. | |
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| | | Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Unions That is just it man , it's all about who you "blow" not what ya do. Ever notice how people who "got in" to the union via a "friend" never seem to get let go of until the end if they are even let go ?
And they have been there 2 years while they guys that have been there 6 years are gone first ?
I have family in a lot of the local unions and even the auto unions in the midwest.
The unions right now are not the issue. Greed in general is.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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| | | | Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika
1 edit | Re: Unions Your examples show the unions are a huge part of the problem particularly in standing in the way of productivity. | |
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·Comcast
| Re: Unions But there are 99 problems ahead of it , you gotta take the heavy issues on right now , not take a weak issue like unions on.
If you take on the harder issues right now , it may eliminate the weaker issues. Once the bigger issues are dealt with you move to the smaller issues.
Right now productivity is not a concern , keeping these companies afloat seems to be the major one. Which to me is minor.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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| | | | | | Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika | Re: Unions And it would be easier to keep them "afloat" if they were permitted to keep the best workers and lose the worst. | |
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·Comcast
| Re: Unions I totally agree , but I believe in responsibility , if they dump good workers , then the manages should be held accountable for what happens.
Which is not what is happening in america today.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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| | | | | | | | Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika
1 edit | Re: Unions The problem is the union prevents them from choosing between good and bad workers even if Verizon management had enough brain cells to determine which were good or bad or even cared in the first place. | |
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| | | | | | |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| said by Z80:And it would be easier to keep them "afloat" if they were permitted to keep the best workers and lose the worst. By which the companies mean "Those American workers who expect a living wage and benefits to support a family" when they can be replaced by HB1 visa and third world workers and "independent contractors" and paid far far less. "Best" workers. My behind. "Dirt cheap" workers.... and all to improve stock price.
Quality be damned.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | | | | | Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika | Re: Unions Quality be damned; the union motto. Last hired first fired regardless of job performance is a great way to protect the lazy and incompetent while ignoring any new hire who is motivated and busts ass.
Labor is subject to market forces as well and a worker is only worth what it costs to replace them, nothing more. The union should do their part to insure that their membership is worth a bundle by insisting on excellent job performance. If the union was synonymous with top quality motivated employees instead of lazy shovel leaners, they could get their membership more $$$ and they would have earned every penny.
As it stands now, hard work counts for nothing so why do it? | |
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| | | | | | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Unions You're not getting it. You can be fired for performance irregardless of seniority, but they will have to at least prove it, can't just say "you're fired because I say so."
If you don't work hard here you will have a rough time as your slacking falls on other people to pickup and they WILL call you out for it and then undermine you.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | | | | | | Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika
1 edit | Re: Unions You're not getting it. That isn't what happened here so sayith the union spokesperson.
quote:
Hetrick said the FIOS technicians had plenty of work to do but were laid off because they had less seniority than other union members.
What may have happened elsewhere, in other companies, or even at Verizon in the past, is irrelevant to my point which is seniority should have zero to do with who gets hired or fired. It should be the merit of the individual and their value to the company as an individual.
Meanwhile you have a culture of shovel leaners, no one is ratting out anyone. | |
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| | | | | | | | | WhatNowPremium
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC | Re: Unions If management does their job the the senior employee will not be an idiot. Sure in some cases the better employee loses a job but in a lot of cases it is the management that caused the problem in the first place but they keep their jobs.
I have never thought of the banks and Wall Street as being a bastion of union workers but it was the highest paid managers that brought the economy to its knees. Most of the crowd that made the decisions kept their jobs and got bonuses while the employees that answered the phones and did their jobs were sent packing. People were not kept by their ability but by what department or division they were in.
So your it is the unions fault is just wrong. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika | Re: Unions Again, we aren't talking about Wall St. We are talking about these particular people who were laid off because they did not have proper seniority and that is what is wrong. No one should be laid off or kept because of seniority, union or non-union. | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Unions Except half of your posts in this thread were anti-union rants, completely oblivious to reality or how unions actually work. You make ridiculous assumptions about the function of unions and what caused our economy to fall into a recession in the first place. It`s stupid and to be honest disrespectful, especially considering the reason you`re not working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week is because unions exist. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika | Re: Unions Except you read only what you choose to read. Stop defending the unions no matter what they do and get some objectivity. There is no excuse for using seniority to select which guys and gals get canned.
We all know all too well how unions actually work. Meanwhile you can skip the attempt at derailing the thread into another political pissing contest. We all know your anti-capitialist positions and they are irrelevant to this discussion of seniority playing a role in layoffs.
Enjoy ignore. | |
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| | | | | | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| What he's really saying is there was plenty of work to do but Verizon decided to lay people off anyway, so the people with the least seniority got the shaft. Not that the people who stayed were lazy suck ups. Basically what he said is the problem was Verizon's decision to lay off people period.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | | | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by KrK:You're not getting it. You can be fired for performance irregardless of seniority, but they will have to at least prove it, can't just say "you're fired because I say so." If you don't work hard here you will have a rough time as your slacking falls on other people to pickup and they WILL call you out for it and then undermine you. What if you claim the "performance goals" are "unsafe work conditions"? | |
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| | | | | | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Unions I see what you're getting at. Are there ways to game the system? Yeah... but the door swings both ways. I think we all can generally tell the difference between good working conditions and unsafe ones.... and who is a good worker and who isn't. Also don't blame the rank and file (union or not) for the problems management creates--- like who they choose to promote. Sheesh, but that's a whole other topic.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | | | | | | | | New workers are obligated to work to retain their positions. Don't forget that they are basically in a trial period where they can be dismissed easily for any reason that the employer dreams up. Todays lazy unionized yob was once yesterday new productive worker. | |
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| | | | | | | | | grays
join:2006-02-14
Rochelle Park, NJ | i wonder how many kiss ass workers would keep their jobs even though they have their nose up their bosses ass while getting preferential work.it has always been my expierence that the guy who works the hardest gets screwed while the guy who looks like he works but instead kisses his bosses ass & gets taken care of is the SUPERSTAR. | |
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| | | | | | | Unions do? Your kidding right?
It's corporate policies made up by the managers, and directors of these that keeps certain unions from being more productive...More because these policies(that have nothing to do with the job at hand) have to be followed or the members will get into trouble... | |
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| | | grays
join:2006-02-14
Rochelle Park, NJ | YOU KNOW LITTLE ABOUT UNIONS & WHAT IS RIGHT.senior members have paid their dues & that is that.you say that people should be laid off by preformance.well one persons performance is not another's.for instance I am a core tech.the vcs techs bust their butts & do 5 or more jobs a day while we do 2 or 3 in cable maintanence.well we are swamped with jobs that could have been fixed by vcs.some they do not even go out on-just fail it to cable.most times we can not even trust that the cable they fail it to is right.the number crunchers love vcs & hate us.well i know that most customers I see have service at the end of the day.
they had layoffs in the 70's.most got recalled when the times improved.I feel that if it is so slow why not take a gang of techs into an area that has a bad cable situation & switch them all over to fios.they will have great service-we have our foot in the door for tv & we save on dispatching 100 techs into the same area every week.makes sense to me however Verizon management is not known for being too smart[.9 trucks-not getting the iphone-screwing fios customers bills & not correcting it...].Face it Verizon makes money in spite of itself.don't try to figure it out-you never will.
just remember YOU are the union.You bad mouth the union & you loose.How many times did you stand up to management?how many times did you take action?YOU ARE THE UNION & if it sucks you have no one to blame but yourself.It may take a statewide walkout or something as small as leaving 20 dead fish in your bosses office on a weekend to get their attention.
I have told many a vcs tech to do a quality job.they can not fire you for that.they can fire you for stealing or being off base.be on base & do quality work & maybe we will have some customers in the years to come. | |
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| | | | | Sorry you were fired instead of someone who had more time than you, but you think your better than.. F.Y.I. Senority is the way the vast majority of American companys determine who is going to be layed off...
Also, remember noone thinks of themselves as a worthless employee, but people do tend to look at others that same way.. Think about that for a minute next time before you start telling us how you are better than the other guy | |
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| | | Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika | Re: Unions The difference between Toyota and GM isn't the current workers, it's past workers who draw payments (pension and heathcare) while contributing zero to current production. GM has massive domestic LEGACY costs, they are paying for past workers whereas Toyota is a relatively new US factory presence in the scheme of things. In another 30 years, Toyota will be similarly hammered by US legacy costs just as they are getting hit with legacy costs in Japan. | |
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| | | |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: Unions said by Z80:In another 30 years, Toyota will be similarly hammered by US legacy costs just as they are getting hit with legacy costs in Japan. Does Toyota offer a pension package to its US workers that is similar to what Detroit offers their workers? I don't think they do.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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| | | | | Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika
2 edits | Re: Unions »www.businessweek.com/magazine/co···ed_ssi_5
Detroit has or is currently gutting it's compensation system while Toyota's gets worse (financially speaking). Again, I'm not speaking of the past, I'm speaking of the future where there is going to be parity in labor costs between US automakers and foreign automakers assembling cars in the US and it has always been legacy costs, not hourly wages that hurt the big 3.
The days of a $1.5K difference in labor costs per car are numbered. Toyota can try and cut costs, but they are already pretty lean. | |
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| | | | | | You can thank congress for trying to push through a 10 billion dollar gift to the UAW in the health care bill. I guess the govt just wants to help with these legacy costs. | |
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| | | | | | said by Z80:The difference between Toyota and GM isn't the current workers, it's past workers who draw payments (pension and heathcare) while contributing zero to current production. GM has massive domestic LEGACY costs, they are paying for past workers whereas Toyota is a relatively new US factory presence in the scheme of things. In another 30 years, Toyota will be similarly hammered by US legacy costs just as they are getting hit with legacy costs in Japan. You`re conflating two different issues. The problem with Japan is that its workforce is growing older without an influx of new and younger workers due to a low birthrate. | |
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| | | Reviews:
·Comcast
| They can't help you because you weren't a friend of the local runner.
Don't feel to bad it happens to many , in a perfect world we are graded on job performance , in this world we are graded on how others feel about us and not always job performance.
Maybe you didn't kiss enough ass , I honestly don't know.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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| | | | We want the dollar to be worth crap. Then our goods and services will be very competitive across the globe...heck, we might actually start producing again. | |
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|  clock
join:2007-05-02
Roslindale, MA
·RCN CABLE
| said by neftv:I guess Verizon don't need installers since they lay them off since Mass and RI is fully wired. I wish, they decided to skip the biggest city in New England. They've struck deals with NYC & DC, but can't hammer out a deal with Boston. It's pretty ridiculous that Verizon can't get anything worked out, considering they didn't sell this market to Fairpoint because they deemed it profitable. At this rate, Boston may never see FiOS, or anything faster than 3Mbps DSL from the phone company. | |
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| |  wdoa
join:2001-10-16
Spencer, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Unions You can pretty much bet there will be no further FIOS roll outs in Massachusetts. If you don't have it now in your city/town, you won't be getting it. It's quite clear that Verizon is about to cut and run from their non FIOS areas of Massachusetts. I would bet on a sale within the next 12 to 24 months. | |
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| KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| "Unions are ruining the country." Oh boy.
I'll guess I'll have to partly agree with you, but for a different reason. Unions are helping ruin the country--- not because of what they do, but because they aren't strong ENOUGH to protect the workers anymore. What's left of Union labor is divided and run over at will by corporations and the right ideology, so, yes, Unions are adding to the problems in the USA by not being strong or powerful enough to stop the decline.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | wdoa
join:2001-10-16
Spencer, MA | Re: Unions ding ding, we have a winner | |
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| | | | said by KrK:"Unions are ruining the country." Oh boy. I'll guess I'll have to partly agree with you, but for a different reason. Unions are helping ruin the country--- not because of what they do, but because they aren't strong ENOUGH to protect the workers anymore. What's left of Union labor is divided and run over at will by corporations and the right ideology, so, yes, Unions are adding to the problems in the USA by not being strong or powerful enough to stop the decline. Thankyou for a refreshing dose of common sense. There are way too many corporate suck-ups in this country. | |
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| | | | | Re: Unions Continuing to screw over the young and impressionable by constantly protecting retirees and those with higher seniority does not build a strong union over time. Junior union employees once believed the union would protect them in times where they might fear for their jobs, but recent contractual negotiations have made sure to protect retiree benefits and jobs for only those hired before a certain date. Subjecting those hired most recently to a disproportionate amount of layoff possibility does not make those people want to fight for their union brother. | |
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Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika | Hmmm So rather than people being laid off or kept based on their merits and productivity, the union has it based on seniority. Nice. Hard work gets you no where in the IBEW. | |
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See 26 replies to this post |
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Reviews:
 ·Verizon Wireless..
·Comcast
1 edit | Pretty Soon If verizon doesnt watch it soon it will just be a company with a CEO as support... pretty bad support tbh.
Its bad enough that to get service I have to call up the Code Red crew as they're so wonderfully named... every time my POTS goes out. :/
I'm waiting for them to sell me to frontier. | |
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| Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika | Re: Pretty Soon 16,000 out of nearly a quarter million employees. | |
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| | | | Re: Pretty Soon Yup and all of which they dont do their jobs sad huh... | |
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| | | Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika | Re: Pretty Soon Well out of 1/4 million certainly some are lazy while out of 16,000 certainly some are hard working. But neither matters when seniority is a huge criterion for who gets the axe and who doesn't. | |
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 FreedomBuildWell done is better than well saidPremium
join:2004-10-08
Rockford, IL
·Comcast
| Need to hire big wig excecutives That's what a lot of big corps are really doing. Firing the work force and hiring some 'chiefs' to take up the salary difference. for every 25 people or so they get a 'director' of sort. A lady I am doing a project for that works at Hamiltonsundstrand told me that's exactly what they did. Fired a bunch of engineers and such then Hired a corporate big wig at the salary equivalent they fired all the major workers. Go figure aye.
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»www.freedombuild.net
Browse A lot - Sign In Little - Post Even Less | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
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| | Who you know! I learned when I was in my mid 20's it all boils down to who you know. If you do not associate with the right people in powerful positions forget it. You can have the best skills ever BUT if you don't know the right people you are NOT getting that job. | |
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|  VanPremium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA | Re: Who you know! Amen
I worked my ass through college, law school, and LLM school and got a fantastic job with a little help from a family friend
Granted, I believe I earned it with my degrees and experience....but hell, the family helped me | |
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|  NOVA_GuyObamaCare Kills AmericansPremium
join:2002-03-05 | Try looking at it a different way. If you want to build a career in any company networking isn't just recommended, it's required.
How else is mid and upper level management going to get to know you? Where I work we have cut back significantly but still have a number of lower-key snacks and beer only networking events for people to get to know each other.
Those who expect to get promoted to senior management are expected to attend at least a few of these on their own time, as well as participate in other activities outside of client engagement time to help build the firm and boost its profitability. Activities are tracked, and those who contribute more are rewarded better for it. It's not just a job; it's a lifestyle.
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Nobel peace prize for Obammer... Now he's got one more thing in common with Arafat besides hating America. And he's just as succesful as Jimmy "the failure" Carter. | |
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| | | | Re: Who you know! Agree, in life you either "know" the right person or you dont..... | |
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 antdudeA Ninja AntPremium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
kudos:2 |  FIOS
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| | | Re: FIOS FIOS put in orange underground conduit 4 months ago on my street, but haven't put any fibre in it yet.
They have sent multiple post cards saying "FIOS is Coming!"
Hey, maybe they're going to send the bits in those pneumatic bank canisters up and down the street in the empty tubes! | |
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| | antdudeA Ninja AntPremium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
kudos:2 Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit |  Re: FIOS
said by jimmydont:FIOS put in orange underground conduit 4 months ago on my street, but haven't put any fibre in it yet. They have sent multiple post cards saying "FIOS is Coming!" Hey, maybe they're going to send the bits in those pneumatic bank canisters up and down the street in the empty tubes! Four months ago?!? Wow. 
Nothing in my neighborhood. | |
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| | | | said by jimmydont:FIOS put in orange underground conduit 4 months ago on my street, but haven't put any fibre in it yet. They have sent multiple post cards saying "FIOS is Coming!" Hey, maybe they're going to send the bits in those pneumatic bank canisters up and down the street in the empty tubes! Can you fit a pigon in the canisters?  | |
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| | | | | Re: FIOS Finally on Tuesday they started installing.
But so far they were only there on Tuesday and have a lot left to do... | |
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| | unions and such Those of you who are offering up your opinions should really be fully educated on the situation before you pass judgment on this particular union and their workers. When there is a time that any workers, union or not, are laid off it's terrible.
There are plenty of existing VZ techs that were trained to install FIOS... this only takes a week or two of training for them. When Verizon hires someone to be a Copper tech, the are put through 6 months of classroom training which is then followed up by an additional 4 -6 months of on the job training.
What you need to know is that a lot of these FIOS technicians were hired with in the past few years and were trained in FIOS installation only. Verizon didn't invest the time or money into training them in every area for this exact reason.... the considered them "disposable". This is not the fault of the union and does not make the technicians that have been with the company for 10 years or more "lazy". | |
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| | | Re: unions and such 6 months of classroom?
How long ago was this?
I hired on 5 years ago as a copper tech and only received 1 week pole climbing and ladder, 2 weeks computer net learn with limited practical app, and 2 week ride along.
Additional "bonus training available"
Man hole or Vault training is 2 days, Cable splice is 2 weeks, fault locate may be 2 weeks. DSL 2 days.
Lay offs anywhere suck. | |
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| |  elbm
join:2000-08-03
Reisterstown, MD | Re: unions and such Yeah lay offs suck. I am a construction splicer and we got 2 weeks of pole climbing/ladder/platform/man hole training and the 3 weeks of splicing school and then it was on the job training. Never heard of 6 months up front-- but I have probably had a total of 6 months in the past 13 years here. (Mux, slc and dlc classes) However there are dramatic differences in the ojt learning curves for different outside jobs.
Fios/Copper install/repair-- a couple of weeks to be fully on your own.
Cable Maintenance Copper-- 1-2 years to be proficient.
SLC maintenance-- 1-2 years
Cable Maintenance-- fios a couple of weeks.
Construction fios-- a couple of months.
Construction copper-- 3-5 years to do all aspects.
Construction core fiber-- 3-5 years also | |
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| | idea
unions, good or bad, protect people.
corporations exist only to feed greed. lately, they have been doing so at the expense of people. every idiot who detests corporate greed and buys verizon fios deserves to be unemployed. | |
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| | live better, work union I can honestly say about 15% of the guys I work with I wouldn't hire. Not that they're not for the most part good guys, I just don't think their workmanship and knowledge/enthusiasm for the craft is what it could be.
In my shop of about 100 techs, I'm firmly in the middle as far as seniority. I have guys w/ over 25 years above me, and guys w/ as little as 3 years below me.
Of that 15 percent (15 techs for the math challenged) they are split evenly as far as seniority.
So all things created equal... cut the schlep with 3 years, or the schlep with 25? After 4 years, we all make the top wage. May as well keep the guy with the years. He'll retire in the next few years anyways.
Point is, it all balances out. And for all you that think the "lazy" guys can just float under the RADAR, you really are clueless.
If the company wants you out, trust me, they'll run you out. And union stewards and business reps know who the turds are and want them out just as much as management.
Ok, now go back to your union bashing. Wal-Mart is calling | |
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| | | Re: live better, work union thats so true... we all know who the POS's are ,and honestly if they got fired nobody would cry for them | |
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| | Seniority Seniority Seniority.... Seniority is a factor in many companies (union and non-union) because its easy.
You can argue away seniority,either you have it or you dont.
Ive seen people get laid off only to have their position filled by the bosses nephew. Or transferred to a far away assignment after they had purchased a home ,knowing they wouldnt take the transfer because they couldnt leave.
At least with a union contract you know where you stand.
I know too many people in their late 40's laid offed, riffed, downsized, what ever you call it -gone.
Try starting a new career at 50. It aint fun. And it aint fun knowing you were 3 years away from a full pension.
So yeah, seniority will always have its problems (hard worker laid off -lazy kept on) but what does anyone suggest we do?
You cant trust the boss to make those decisions, the ass kissers and the who knows who will screw you out of the job no matter how hard of a worker you are.
You could be the BEST guy in the company, but that doesnt help you when youve been screwed out of a job..
Try writing letters to the CEO?? Only in la-la land..
Of course they make you sign a piece of paper promising you wont sue,etc and if you dont you get a lot less money.
Trust me I know people a year away from a full pension benefit who got cut, they had dreams of lawsuits -aka Perry Mason going after the company
But the real world is you dont have the money or time to do it and even if you did you would spend more on lawyers then you could ever recover.
On that note.. I'll stick with a strict seniority rule! | |
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 HarddriveProud American and Infidel since 1968.Premium
join:2000-09-20
Phone Room
kudos:2
·Comcast
| And that's what happens in Big Business. well here goes...
i was a member of IBEW 2323 in Rhode Island for 10 years. the same local Union that guys/gals worked for Vz.
to set things straight, Verizon at first offered the FiOS schooling to the senior technicians in the local Union IBEW 2323). many of them declined and stayed in Outside Plant, Residential, etc. VZ then went on a hiring spree and hired new folks off the street for FiOS installers and for the FiOS Call Center in downtown Providence.
Rhode Island was getting wired so fast with FiOS is was amazing. Cox (the primary Cable Co in the State) started freaking out because all they had to deal with before FiOS was a paltry 700-800k download from Vz DSL.
I actually asked a couple of the new FiOS guys at the Union office in Cranston what was going to happen to them when the whole State got wired and their installation skills were no longer needed to support the massive out-roll of FiOS. i think i actually said it to Kevin Desmond (big wig at the local) once about the new guys won't have a job when Vz gets the whole State wired.
well, its come to that. whats the top directive for the local? at all costs, protect seniority.
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I've come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass and i'm all outta bubblegum. | |
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| | | Re: And that's what happens in Big Business. Unions stick to seniority because it is the only non- gameable measure. I would like to hear a defended argument that there is a direct negative correlation between seniority and "productivity". Full disclosure, I am a Verizon FIOS tech in RI. I have seen the company define productivity in many ways in my almost 10 years here.Through all that time, I have seen talented and hard working people have low "productivity" because it is the nature of their work. An example would be the cable repair techs whose work takes a lot of time, as in sectionalize & locate trouble, get police detail, pump & purge manhole enter & open splice case and do the actual repair.Are they less productive than the business installer who identifies and connects 10 lines at a terminal in an hour? I submit that the ratio of "productive" to " non-productive" employees has remained constant through the ages,and any other measure would hand an advantage to those who are connected or can game the measurement. That injustices result from seniority is not in dispute; the question is what fair system do you propose to replace it with. | |
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| | Layoffs and why Speaking as a recently laid off employee, I can say that my layoff was due to my views of the Top management of Verizon. To talk about teamwork and then to try to squash a team of people that banded together to create patents for Verizon, just because some in Top management did not like the hue of these folks smacked of hypocrisy. So I spoke out in a town hall meeting, and you know what? I would do it again, only this time I would not hold back.
Now to the bases of these layoffs, Verizon made some messed up financial decisions, and now to appease Wall Street and the Shareholders, heads must roll; the problem is Verizon is dumping some good people, but leaving some incompetent people in place because they fit their PIE philosophy.
PIE stands for:
P= Performance 10%
I= Image 30%
E = Exposure 60%
Right away, you can see that even though you can have 100% in performance it only rates as 10% of your employee profile. Another way of looking at this is suppose you are just incompetent and have 0% for Performance. Guess what? You are still promotable, because you are still in the 90 percentile. Image and Exposure will carry you 90%. This results in the "If we like you, you are in" mentality. It is sad but true. It’s not Verizon the company that decided to do this but rather people who do not necessarily want the best of the best but rather the best of the yes to be viable. | |
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| Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Layoffs and why said by Shuttle83:Speaking as a recently laid off employee, I can say that my layoff was due to my views of the Top management of Verizon. To talk about teamwork and then to try to squash a team of people that banded together to create patents for Verizon, just because some in Top management did not like the hue of these folks smacked of hypocrisy. So I spoke out in a town hall meeting, and you know what? I would do it again, only this time I would not hold back. Now to the bases of these layoffs, Verizon made some messed up financial decisions, and now to appease Wall Street and the Shareholders, heads must roll; the problem is Verizon is dumping some good people, but leaving some incompetent people in place because they fit their PIE philosophy. PIE stands for: P= Performance 10% I= Image 30% E = Exposure 60% Right away, you can see that even though you can have 100% in performance it only rates as 10% of your employee profile. Another way of looking at this is suppose you are just incompetent and have 0% for Performance. Guess what? You are still promotable, because you are still in the 90 percentile. Image and Exposure will carry you 90%. This results in the "If we like you, you are in" mentality. It is sad but true. It’s not Verizon the company that decided to do this but rather people who do not necessarily want the best of the best but rather the best of the yes to be viable. This will only come back to bite Verizon in the ass later-on down the line. The pricing premium (honeymoon) for FIOS compared to similarly priced cable dual & triple play is largely OVER & now they have to compete on bottom line price just as the cable company. Consumers will do what's best for THEM, not the corporation & vice versa. Verizon did make moderately BAD DECISIONS in spinning hard rhetoric about competition, but when push comes to shove & docsis begins arriving.. what do they do? Nope, not VOIP, not price cuts.. layoffs and footprint slashing (fairpoint). The learning curve for Video needed to be steep and was(and still is) very sluggish. Cable-tv is a dinosaur without transitioning from packages of channels to a more on-demand platform. Unfortunately, the cable industry will fight that with their last breath.. but they want to stick their heads in the sand from the internet perfect storm.. let them at their own perril. Ironically, this will benefit the telcos-- but not for a LONG, LONG time-- by then there will more blood letting of jobs above and beyond these cuts. Consumers will demand an entertainment "box" that serves up content on-demand and less 'live' entertainment. Live tv programming will be so-called "news", a handful of talk/specialty shows, and live concerts/sporting type events. The rest, pre-recorded! No more exclusive channel junk.. consumers will pay for only what they watch, otherwise they will get it free from the internet. If you look at satellite radio, that is cable-tv's future.. the fight to keep exclusive programming relevant while the business goes to hell-in-a handbasket for not evolving & putting forth some hefty price hikes to boot. Once the company's options run out, they are left with some very distasteful options in the future.. Sirius satellite radio is trying to hock 5 months of programming for $20.. then try to get you addicted to it's $13/month service... hah, good luck!
Just like the auto industry, making bad decisions about what to make & giving the union too much for too long cost the company dearly.. but in the end bankruptcy & government ownership is trying to right the ship but failing(hundreds of thousands of employees & retiree employees got ROYALLY SCREWED, right next to the air-traffic controllers of the 80s). The problem is, GM now lost so much credibility that no-one wants to buy gm products anymore without hefty incentives (5k clunkers program was a good example). Esentially making new cars that were rotting away and would need to be scrapped sold as 3-4 year old leased prices with a trade-in (if it qualified). The same kinds of harsh economics will be at play in telecom. Luckily, wireless is evolving into an unlimited model so they will last alot longer. However, POTS and cable-tv as it stands will be the losers in this next round of evolution and the more companies try to hold onto that old way of doing business, workers are the first, but not the last to feel the pain of loss in those profits.
Unions need to be transitioning from products that consume energy to those that produce energy: solar panels, self-contained home eletricity production (hydrogen units), battery technology, hybrid energy producing power plants, wind turbines, etc. We know the world is still addicted to OIL, if they do this NOW, the USA could get a jump-start on the rest of the world because we can prove these technologies work on a massive scale. In later years, it will be countries such as china which end up making them cost effective enough for the world to ditch oil.. but the innovation must be pioneered in the USA, for the USA interests. Then, the other sectors of the economy are able to resume past growth trends. Without regaining energy price stability-- everything else is subject to price manipulation & profiteering. Even the areas where unions are still strong (civil service jobs) are put at risk without helping to solve energy stability. | |
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| | A joke. This company get's what they deserve. We just signed up with a "bundled" service threw Verizon and they qoute us 80.99 a month for Satelite, phone, and internet. We got our first bill and it was 189$ We called and got someone in India that we could hardly understand and it was explained "oh that was just for the satelite." This is bad business and I would NOT RECOMMEND THEM!. Because now we are tied into a contract that stink we were going to have to stay with them or pay a break the contract fee....Well we are going to pay the break the contract fee and go somewhere else... | |
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| | | Re: A joke. said by Slimer650 :
This company get's what they deserve. We just signed up with a "bundled" service threw Verizon and they qoute us 80.99 a month for Satelite, phone, and internet. We got our first bill and it was 189$ We called and got someone in India that we could hardly understand and it was explained "oh that was just for the satelite." This is bad business and I would NOT RECOMMEND THEM!. Because now we are tied into a contract that stink we were going to have to stay with them or pay a break the contract fee....Well we are going to pay the break the contract fee and go somewhere else...
when you sign a contract it *MUST* have the prices quoted-- if you only gave verbal authorization and didnt' sign a paper.. you should be able to get out of it in the FIRST billing period(when you get your first bill), but not beyond that without an ETF. | |
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| | | said by Slimer650 :
This company get's what they deserve. We just signed up with a "bundled" service threw Verizon and they qoute us 80.99 a month for Satelite, phone, and internet. We got our first bill and it was 189$ We called and got someone in India that we could hardly understand and it was explained "oh that was just for the satelite." This is bad business and I would NOT RECOMMEND THEM!. Because now we are tied into a contract that stink we were going to have to stay with them or pay a break the contract fee....Well we are going to pay the break the contract fee and go somewhere else...
we are talking about the employees that have worked for this company getting laid off.... these people do not control the rates and the bills that receive in the mail. Verizon as a corporation is not really "getting what they deserve" in this instance... they are laying off employees to keep their profits up.
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salex99
join:2002-01-26
Lansdowne, PA | Lay off Just got laid off today | |
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salex99
join:2002-01-26
Lansdowne, PA | VZ lay off I just got laid off today. One out of 64 splicers in Philly/Central/Eastern Area. | |
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| | |  Re: VZ lay off
they are looking at numbers not talent....they dont understand that not only are they laying off top talent they are cutting customers.....you cut me ...dam your products will enter my house. (while i still have it) | |
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LineDawg
join:2005-11-19
East Brunswick, NJ | Layoffs Salex that stinks hope you land on your feet. How many years did you have ? 70 or 71 techs let go Friday 10/16. Less than two years and your gone by the end of the year. More layoffs in December.
In the last month cutbacks everywhere every nickel is being watched. Good luck gettin Fios. The co. doesnt want schedule new installs.
Any way good luck. This is gonna be tough sledding the next few years.  | |
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| | VZ layoffs One of those FiOS techs that laid off as well. Funny how they say FiOS is the big push, but the guys that were strictly FiOS techs were the only ones laid off.  | |
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| | Understand your argument. If you were hired prior to 2003 you have a different contract.educate yourself before making statements that are incorrect. | |
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| | sorry to all who lost their jobs I want to start off by saying I'm sorry for those who lost their jobs, I don't like to see anyone lose their job. For you people who have not worked for a union I have no respect for what you have to say. Unless you have worked for a union you can't speak for what goes on in a union. I'm a IBEW member and a Verizon employee for over 12 years. I myself have a lot of integrity and good work ethics. Not all unions workers are slackers whether they have been around for a short period of time or a long period of time. I do agree that some workers that do not have good work ethics are protected under the union. But that does not make the union in itself bad. The union was formed to protect all workers rights. There is loop holes in everything. Just like there are loop holes in laws. There is always people out there that will game the system. A lot of unions are a shell of their former selves. For the union workers that got laid off and feel that they worked harder or better than other union workers, I understand somewhat how you feel, but you guys knew the deal and the risk when you took the job. I mean no disrespect, but if someone turns around and accept a job from fast food restaurant, you shouldn't turn around and say this job sucks or doesn't pay, because you knew going in. For you people who think unions are ruining this country, what about all of these top 1-5% executives who are walking away with millions whether they run the company into the ground or not. I personally think the entire country should learn to be a union as a whole. There is no reasons why any honest, hard worker American should be working without benefits and at least actually be able to take care of their family. That's why I feel unions does have a purpose, and they should not be blamed for the people who feel that going to work, is just to pick up a paycheck. Stop settling for less and if you do, don't get upset with union workers, instead join a union. | |
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| | Hello all! EX Verizon Business Employee Hello all!
I want to say that that I was a Verizon Business (VZB) field tech (of 2 years) who was recently laid off due to a so called ‘surplus’ of employees within the 13 north eastern states. It is still going to arbitration, but from the looks of it not many or any VZB techs are going to get their jobs back. When we asked why we were told at first that no one knew what was going on. Later on it leaked out mainly through the Verizon core employees that VZB jobs are being transfer over to Verizon core. When we complained about this, we were told by Verizon core union members that ‘Verizon Business jobs belong to Verizon core techs and that those jobs were never VZB jobs to begin with’ end of story. I spoke to a Verizon core union member and ask him if this was true. He laugh at my face and walked away. I asked the same question to another core employee and she almost cried and said ‘sorry but you guys were thrown under the truck so sorry’.
We the Verizon Business (VZB) techs fought hard to join CWA since we believed in workers rights and in solidarity, only to find out that VZB techs are viewed as ‘scabs’ who are stealing jobs from Verizon core union workers. Almost all of us lost faith in the CWA and cause of the unions.
As for the past posts I have to honestly say I am neither for nor against unions, maybe it just my experience with CWA. This was my first union and I bought into the hype.
As of now too much has happen and I have a family to feed. My family and I already went through two years of hardship before I started work at Verizon Business without the means to afford heat and food. We had to depend on charity for help. It seems we may have to go through that again.
I hope that CWA will fight for all of Verizon not just core. I can only hope. | |
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| benny594
join:2009-11-17
Virginia Beach, VA | Re: Hello all! EX Verizon Business Employee all employees that Verizon has laid off over the last few years should question if this is because they worked with and used carbonless copy paper that Verizon knew, and secreted , potential adverse health effects including disabilities, birth defects, cancer and death to employees. Was or is Verizon trying to get rid of employees before this is known to employees so they can possibly file claims that could amount into the billions.
Carbonless copy paper is a multi part form where you write on the top part and the print goes through without inserting carbon paper. If you have worked with or used this while employed at Verizon , former Bells, since about 1980, you may be able to file claims for very large amounts. You just do not know this. | |
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