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Comments on news posted 2009-10-14 18:31:33: Here in the States we only just decided, nearly a decade after the industry took off, that it might be smart to have some kind of national broadband plan. We have also decided, after a decade of using bad science to inform any telecom policy we di.. ..


WeSRT4

join:2000-11-20
Mobile, AL

1 recommendation

Not a right.

This is ridiculous. You have the right to move to where broadband is available.

Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

Re: Not a right.

said by WeSRT4:

This is ridiculous. You have the right to move to where broadband is available.
Like New Zeland.

Oh wait. I think the government has to give approval before they'll let you live there.

NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.
matrix3D

join:2006-09-27
Middletown, CT
Are you kidding me? You're saying in this country we should have to go through the difficult process of selling a home and finding another in an area where broadband is available if we want it? What a crock of $hit.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

2 recommendations

Re: Not a right.

said by matrix3D:

Are you kidding me? You're saying in this country we should have to go through the difficult process of selling a home and finding another in an area where broadband is available if we want it?
Yes, just as you would need to do the same if you wanted waterfront property, better schools, more convenient transportation options, proximity to grocery stores, sports stadiums, and the millions of other things people move for.......
--
"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
-Ronald Reagan-
»www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Re: Not a right.

said by wifi4milez:

said by matrix3D:

Are you kidding me? You're saying in this country we should have to go through the difficult process of selling a home and finding another in an area where broadband is available if we want it?
Yes, just as you would need to do the same if you wanted waterfront property, better schools, more convenient transportation options, proximity to grocery stores, sports stadiums, and the millions of other things people move for.......
Or electricity...

Oh wait.

woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA
And then have your kids bussed to make some school somewhere more integrated......
--
BlooMe
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
Yes, just like you have to worry about having running water or electricity...

Oh wait, you DON'T generally have to worry about those things when buying a home. Hmmmmmmmmm.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

Re: Not a right.

said by jjeffeory:

Yes, just like you have to worry about having running water or electricity...

Oh wait, you DON'T generally have to worry about those things when buying a home. Hmmmmmmmmm.
Electricity and water are both utilities, broadband isnt. You have no more right to demand broadband be available (at a new house) than you have a right to demand a free Rolls Royce be in the driveway.
--
"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
-Ronald Reagan-
»www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

Re: Not a right.

Well there you go. Broadband should be a utility as well, which is my point.

Maybe in Finland, electricity and water are rights?

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

Re: Not a right.

said by jjeffeory:

Well there you go. Broadband should be a utility as well, which is my point.
Then you are entitled to move to a country (such as Finland) that regulates it as such if you feel so inclined.

Jim Kirk
Premium
join:2005-12-09

Re: Not a right.

Is that where Big Russ went?
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
said by wifi4milez:

said by jjeffeory:

Well there you go. Broadband should be a utility as well, which is my point.
Then you are entitled to move to a country (such as Finland) that regulates it as such if you feel so inclined.
Believe me, I'm seriously thinking about it. 8-)
Nah, I'll just what until it becomes one. Who are you to tell me where to go? 8-)
WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX
said by wifi4milez:

said by jjeffeory:

Well there you go. Broadband should be a utility as well, which is my point.
Then you are entitled to move to a country (such as Finland) that regulates it as such if you feel so inclined.
Or maybe we should try to make things better HERE against people that want to keep such services in their current abyssmal state, such as you.

tow

@cox.net
said by jjeffeory:

Well there you go. Broadband should be a utility as well, which is my point.

Yup.. When are we moving guys

Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

1 edit
said by wifi4milez:

Electricity and water are both utilities, broadband isnt.
AFaIK, Electric and Water are utilities because someone declared them to be so. You need running water to keep a modern home sanitary. I don't think electricity is as much a health issue (medical issues excepting). I can't say why they are equated, except for political expediency.

I imagine that having something exist because you say it does is an tenant of the 'Broadband is a Right' crowd. So using the utility method to entitlement is kind of a dream approach to getting what they want.

They just speak their thought and *poof*!

Reality is altered and Broadband now has the same social value as not being imprisoned without cause.

NV
edit:received notice from dept of redundancy dept.
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
said by wifi4milez:

said by jjeffeory:

Yes, just like you have to worry about having running water or electricity...

Oh wait, you DON'T generally have to worry about those things when buying a home. Hmmmmmmmmm.
Electricity and water are both utilities, broadband isnt. You have no more right to demand broadband be available (at a new house) than you have a right to demand a free Rolls Royce be in the driveway.
Cable is a utility, so is telephone. At least that's how it's defined in my state. Why? They are regulated by the public utilities commission.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

1 recommendation

I have a right to demand whatever I want. It doesn't mean I'm going to get it, but if I have friends in the right places, I can get it done.

Frankly, just because broadband isn't classified as a utility yet doesn't mean that people shouldn't push for it to be classified as one. It's useful and very, very necessary in this day and age. Eventually, it will be considered one. Why the big push to make it NOT what it so obviously is? Are you an ISP? I forget!

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
said by wifi4milez:

said by jjeffeory:

Yes, just like you have to worry about having running water or electricity...

Oh wait, you DON'T generally have to worry about those things when buying a home. Hmmmmmmmmm.
Electricity and water are both utilities, broadband isnt. You have no more right to demand broadband be available (at a new house) than you have a right to demand a free Rolls Royce be in the driveway.
You think so narrowly and in the past. We're approaching the end of the first decade of the 21st century so get with the program. Electricity and phone service were once considered "luxuries". Things change. If you think it's a luxury then do without it for a year and come back and tell us how that went but you won't because you NEED the internet. So please stop being hypocritical.

Duramax08
To The Moon
Premium
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX

Re: Not a right.

+1

1 free internets for you.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
said by 88615298:

said by wifi4milez:

said by jjeffeory:

Yes, just like you have to worry about having running water or electricity...

Oh wait, you DON'T generally have to worry about those things when buying a home. Hmmmmmmmmm.
Electricity and water are both utilities, broadband isnt. You have no more right to demand broadband be available (at a new house) than you have a right to demand a free Rolls Royce be in the driveway.
You think so narrowly and in the past. We're approaching the end of the first decade of the 21st century so get with the program. Electricity and phone service were once considered "luxuries". Things change. If you think it's a luxury then do without it for a year and come back and tell us how that went but you won't because you NEED the internet. So please stop being hypocritical.
I never said broadband access wasnt a necessity for me. However, I would never consider moving somewhere it wasnt offered so its a moot point. I wouldnt move to a place that didnt have a lot of things I need, and everyone has different priorities. On the other hand, nobody can justify demanding broadband be available everywhere either. I like the Adirondacks, however there are places there that dont have cell phone access or broadband. If I CHOOSE to go there its my choice, if I choose to stay in NYC thats also my choice.
--
"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
-Ronald Reagan-
»www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

1 edit

Re: Not a right.

Well, everywhere doesn't really mean everywhere either... You don't think that there's going to be broadband "everywhere" ( sort of reminds me of unlimited meaning 5GB cap, pretty funny) in Finland do you? I'm sure there would need to be at least *some* population density or some fiber going along a road. I mean, if there's a road, there is at least power and phone lines.

It's really dangerous to speak in terms of absolutes and *rights* in the first place. I'm really not trying to be difficult with you. I simply believe that if you live in even a rural "town" or population center, then you should be able to have electricity, water, phone, and broadband. They are modern necessities. They are utilities. It's more difficult to do out West than somewhere like the East coast.

Duramax08
To The Moon
Premium
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX

Re: Not a right.

said by jjeffeory:

Well, everywhere doesn't really mean everywhere either... You don't think that there's going to be broadband "everywhere" ( sort of reminds me of unlimited meaning 5GB cap, pretty funny) in Finland do you? I'm sure there would need to be at least *some* population density or some fiber going along a road. I mean, if there's a road, there is at least power and phone lines.

It's really dangerous to speak in terms of absolutes and *rights* in the first place. I'm really not trying to be difficult with you. I simply believe that if you live in even a rural "town" or population center, then you should be able to have electricity, water, phone, and broadband. They are modern necessities. They are utilities. It's more difficult to do out West than somewhere like the East coast.
I agree, they are utilities even if you dont think they are. One of the first things people do (at least the more modern people), they call for broadband. If broadband is one of the things you activate when you move into a house, It should be considered a utility. Thats just my opinion.
--
One day, High speed internet will be down my road! Willing to put DSLAM's or cable plants on my yard. Contact me AT&T or TWC to set up an appointment =]

Mikey12

@mycingular.net
If Finland wants to declare broadband a right that is their right, so what do you care?

Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
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1 edit

Re: Not a right.

said by Mikey12 :

If Finland wants to declare broadband a right that is their right, so what do you care?
He has a right to care. So why are you questioning his right?

NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.
WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX
said by 88615298:

said by wifi4milez:

said by jjeffeory:

Yes, just like you have to worry about having running water or electricity...

Oh wait, you DON'T generally have to worry about those things when buying a home. Hmmmmmmmmm.
Electricity and water are both utilities, broadband isnt. You have no more right to demand broadband be available (at a new house) than you have a right to demand a free Rolls Royce be in the driveway.
You think so narrowly and in the past. We're approaching the end of the first decade of the 21st century so get with the program. Electricity and phone service were once considered "luxuries". Things change. If you think it's a luxury then do without it for a year and come back and tell us how that went but you won't because you NEED the internet. So please stop being hypocritical.
He is an ISP that profits from the state of Internet access being so poor.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

1 recommendation

Re: Not a right.

said by WernerSchutz:

He is an ISP that profits from the state of Internet access being so poor.
I am a taxpayer who sees roughly 50% of my income taken away each pay period. As I said before, I like the Adirondacks however there are MANY places there with no electricity, cell phone towers, or broadband yet people still go there. If someone chooses to move to a sparsely populated area they do so on their own accord. Those people then nave no more of a right to demand broadband than I have to demand dairy farms here in the heart of New York City.
--
"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
-Ronald Reagan-
»www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

1 edit

Re: Not a right.

said by wifi4milez:

said by WernerSchutz:

He is an ISP that profits from the state of Internet access being so poor.
I am a taxpayer who sees roughly 50% of my income taken away each pay period. As I said before, I like the Adirondacks however there are MANY places there with no electricity, cell phone towers, or broadband yet people still go there. If someone chooses to move to a sparsely populated area they do so on their own accord. Those people then nave no more of a right to demand broadband than I have to demand dairy farms here in the heart of New York City.
Are you or are you not an ISP ?

What is with the FSB flag anyway ?

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Se···(Russia)

The Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation (FSB) (Russian: , ; Federal'naya sluzhba bezopasnosti Rossiyskoy Federatsii) is the main domestic security service of the Russian Federation and the main successor agency of the Soviet-era Cheka, NKVD and KGB.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

Re: Not a right.

said by WernerSchutz:

Are you or are you not an ISP ?
How can someone "be" an ISP?

said by WernerSchutz:

What is with the FSB flag anyway ?
Its a emblem, what do you mean by "what is it"?
--
"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
-Ronald Reagan-
»www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

Re: Not a right.

said by wifi4milez:

said by WernerSchutz:

Are you or are you not an ISP ?
How can someone "be" an ISP?

said by WernerSchutz:

What is with the FSB flag anyway ?
Its a emblem, what do you mean by "what is it"?
"being" an ISP as in owning/being a partner in an ISP business (which I believe I read before you are). That would maybe explain your relatively high taxation brackett.

I asked what is "with" the emblem, not what it IS. I am familiar with the KGB and their successors, I do not believe it is a group many people are very fond of although you stated before you like their "methods". I did notice you lost the emblem for a while, which I thought was good, and now I see it is back. I also believe we discussed briefly this issue. A group headquartered at Lubyanka is something many people would not like much.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

Re: Not a right.

said by WernerSchutz:

"being" an ISP as in owning/being a partner in an ISP business (which I believe I read before you are). That would maybe explain your relatively high taxation brackett.
If you know what I do, why are you bothering to ask me about it? I constantly battle with the LEC on access related issues, and we lose revenue on each sale we dont win because of it. I still dont "demand" anything, nor should anyone else. A solid business plan is far more productive than crying about things, just as moving to an area that is served by broadband is more fruitful than demanding all areas be served.

said by WernerSchutz:

I asked what is "with" the emblem, not what it IS. I am familiar with the KGB and their successors, I do not believe it is a group many people are very fond of although you stated before you like their "methods". I did notice you lost the emblem for a while, which I thought was good, and now I see it is back. I also believe we discussed briefly this issue. A group headquartered at Lubyanka is something many people would not like much.
Again, you clearly did research on my prior comments about it, so why are you bothering to ask me about it again?
--
"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
-Ronald Reagan-
»www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

1 edit

Re: Not a right.

I am a Stauffenberg. Soviets did great damage to my family, I do not like to see Soviet organizations promoted.

••••••••••
WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX
said by wifi4milez:

said by WernerSchutz:

He is an ISP that profits from the state of Internet access being so poor.
I am a taxpayer who sees roughly 50% of my income taken away each pay period. As I said before, I like the Adirondacks however there are MANY places there with no electricity, cell phone towers, or broadband yet people still go there. If someone chooses to move to a sparsely populated area they do so on their own accord. Those people then nave no more of a right to demand broadband than I have to demand dairy farms here in the heart of New York City.
By your own argument, if you do not like the taxing system in the US, you are free to move to a different location where taxing is not that large percentage wise. You could move to Sahara, for example.
Bet that your own argument does not look so nice after being used against you.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

Re: Not a right.

said by WernerSchutz:

said by wifi4milez:

said by WernerSchutz:

He is an ISP that profits from the state of Internet access being so poor.
I am a taxpayer who sees roughly 50% of my income taken away each pay period. As I said before, I like the Adirondacks however there are MANY places there with no electricity, cell phone towers, or broadband yet people still go there. If someone chooses to move to a sparsely populated area they do so on their own accord. Those people then nave no more of a right to demand broadband than I have to demand dairy farms here in the heart of New York City.
By your own argument, if you do not like the taxing system in the US, you are free to move to a different location where taxing is not that large percentage wise. You could move to Sahara, for example.
Bet that your own argument does not look so nice after being used against you.
Nice try, however just as I stated in my previous argument I have the choice to stay here (or move if I want). I choose to stay, and part of why I want to stay is the standard of living. Furthermore, I dont wish to be further encumbered by additional taxes brought on by people (such as yourself) demanding things they dont have.
--
"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
-Ronald Reagan-
»www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html


toby
Troy Mcclure

join:2001-11-13
Seattle, WA
said by jjeffeory:

Yes, just like you have to worry about having running water or electricity...

Oh wait, you DON'T generally have to worry about those things when buying a home. Hmmmmmmmmm.
90% of people in rural areas have wells for their water.
Some do not have electricity, generate it themselves.

If you want broadband, move.

••••••••••
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
You know things are typically defined as a "right" when there is a controlling group trying to prevent it. Then eventually the masses are upset long enough and bad enough at the controlling group that they have to make a declaration that it is their right to it. You can trace that back to our land, bearing arms, and many other things that our constitution (government) is built on.

Now, you have the controlling group (monopolistic telecoms and cable companies) not delivering the services the majority want and feel they need so the people must declare it a right to get it done.

••••••••••••••••••••••

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

1 recommendation

said by WeSRT4:

This is ridiculous. You have the right to move to where broadband is available.
Ok I'm not going to explain how stupid that idea is but if you REALLY think it through you realize you DO NOT want people doing that. The point is hat you are from Alabama not Finland so why should you care either way. Obviously the Fins are ok with it so it's really none of your business either way. Not sure who you think you are to tell people in other countries how to run their government.

Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

Re: Not a right.

said by 88615298:

The point is hat you are from Alabama not Finland so why should you care either way.
He's welcome to care about anything he wants to. Questioning that seems kind of pointless.

said by 88615298:

Obviously the Fins are ok with it so
Would you care to quote the extensive Finnish polling data that shows that? All the article shows is that the Ministry of Transport and Communications is OK with it.

said by 88615298:

it's really none of your business either way.
He wasn't proposing business. He was sharing a concern. Who are you to indicate that he can't?

said by 88615298:

Not sure who you think you are to tell people in other countries how to run their government.
That borders on a lie. WeSRT4 See Profile didn't tell anybody to do anything. He expressed a short opinion and offered an alternative.

I don't know that I agree with his sentiment, but your reply seemed overbearing. I don't believe the thread benefits from the tone.

NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.
gorehound

join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME

1 recommendation

I say it is a right and so do millions of others.here in the USA we have companies trying to rip us off by their claims of how the internet will die or we will go broke unless we cap your account at some insanely low cap and then overcharge us all.
Countries like Finland will have its citizens living a lot better than us in USA.

you must work for a telecom if you think Finland is wrong.

•••••••

james1

join:2001-02-26
said by WeSRT4:

This is ridiculous. You have the right to move to where broadband is available.
They have the right to make whatever laws they like in their country. Or are you under the impression that Finland is one of them Northern liberal US states?
--
said by Metatron2008:

But people who download thousands of movies and games.... Yes, they are as bad as any murderer

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA

Re: Not a right.

but it is, isn't it? i thought it was north of Maine or something.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
It's just like electricity and running water to me and many people around the world. It is more useful than the post office, for sure.

•••
Expand your moderator at work
decifal

join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN
kudos:1
said by WeSRT4:

This is ridiculous. You have the right to move to where broadband is available.
Get off of it!

PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
said by WeSRT4:

This is ridiculous. You have the right to move to where broadband is available.
Looks like someone hasn't been keeping up with the times lately... Checked the housing market in the past 2 years? It's not exactly good... Hell, it's not even half-bad. It's terrible.

Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3

every person in Finland will have the right to one-megabit

Wow. I have 5 kids. Does that mean we'd have 7 one-megabit connections in our home?

NV

••••••••

Dagda1175

join:2001-06-17
Goleta, CA

I want an elephant.

WE ALL WANT ELEPHANTS!

Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

1 recommendation

Re: I want an elephant.

said by Dagda1175:

WE ALL WANT ELEPHANTS!
You're not entitled, until most people richer than you have elephants.

NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
Reviews:
·RCN CABLE
·Comcast

1 edit

Re: I want an elephant.

lol

whats still crazy to me is that the poorest people in the united states are still richer than over 80% of the rest of the world. that is messed up. but yea broadband should be a right, and it should be owned by the public, leased to the telecoms, cable co's, wireless companies, etc.
33358088
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2

Read teh ARTICLE

it says the ultimate goal by 2015 is to have EVERY PERSON have the ability at there home where ever it is to have access to 100megabit

•••••

Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

2 edits

The estimated $287 million project cost

EDIT: Sorry. I applied my Public School Math Skills to the 1st version and made a hash of the post.
This is somewhat more accurate - if not quite as startling.


These numbers still seem odd.

There are 1.53 million broadband connections in Finland as of 2007; totaling 287/1000 citizens.

For the sake of argument, we'll assume the Transport and Communications Ministry figures out they just gave broadband to newborns and people in comas.

If we allow 1 million additional household connections, the TaCM feels they can wire Finland for $287 per household.

Really?

Will Finland:
1. Use last century's technology of Cable and Docsis 1.1;
2. Deploy an ever attenuating wireless solution.
3. Maintain their 'World Leading' reputation and roll out Fiber to the Home.

I know about FttN, BBoP, Satellite and/or whatever. This is for speculative purposes. Just deal with it for now.

We'll pretend Finland's 'World Leading' attitude continues past the initial announcement and they deploy FttH.

How much is a spool of fiber going for? There's the cost of switching equipment and termination at each end. There will need to be all sorts of expansion, from the CO to the Backbone.

Who pays for the equipment that sits in the house? The people who install this shiny new infrastructure need to get paid as well as their ancillary business costs (like the taxes that pay for this).

I'm to believe that this can all be done for $287/household.

Make you a deal Finland. When you're done you can come here and do the same thing again. We'll pay you $325/household. You'll make a huge profit and your own deployment will be totally paid for.

Send over the contract.

NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.

•••

jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

1 recommendation

Other interesting facts about Finland

So how do they pay for their politician-given right to broadband in Finland?

The middle income worker suffers from a nearly 60% tax wedge and effective marginal tax rates are very high. Value-added tax is 22% for most items. Capital gains tax and corporate tax are 26%, about the EU median. Property taxes are low, but there is a stamp duty (1.6% for apartments or 4% for individual houses) for home buyers.
As recently as 2003 Finland had the 4th highest "real bite" tax rate of all western countries.

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kxrm

join:2002-07-18
Fort Worth, TX

I love the internet and all but...

it's not a right. Sure the fins can do whatever they want, but declaring it a right is rather ridiculous for some of us. While we are at it I declare it a right that we all have BMW M3s? We all deserve it because we breathe right? I think more people should look up what privilege means.

Where the change needs to occur in the US is regulation of how broadband is implemented so they aren't nickle and diming us to get to Google (sans Net Neutrality). I won't agree that we should force companies or governments to service everyone at a particular level.

joebarnhart
Paxio evangelist

join:2005-12-15
Santa Clara, CA

Hard to call it a "right"

At least in the same vein as human rights, or Constitutional rights. In general, the exercise of a right by one person does not cost money to another. (Which providing broadband clearly does.)

Still, I'm very glad I live in my own little corner of Finland in the year 2015! It's a happy place, and not nearly as cold as I thought it would be. Yes, some servers are slow, so I just do more things with more servers at the same time. I recently downloaded a new distro on 5 CD images in less than 5 minutes, so not every server is slow!

totalradio

join:2007-09-15

I can only imagine...

if the U.S. declared broadband "a right".

Love to see the start of that shitstorm !

Duramax08
To The Moon
Premium
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX

Re: I can only imagine...

"Yo obama its yo homeboi! Cans u make broadbands a rights?"

"mmmmmkay"

nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
·surpasshosting

Here you go...

»www.migri.fi/netcomm/Default.asp?language=EN
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

BB is a commodity. What's it worth to you? Why are you still griping about the phone and cable companies? Why doesn't anybody gripe about the all "powerful" power companies who are flat out refusing to provide BBoPL service even though the technology is there. We need the gubbamin to take over these companies so we can look at the You Tube.

All these people pissing and moaning about not having any service would probably be the last ones to get up off their butts and look into starting a broadband co-op, wisp, or even plant provider.

Yes kiddies, there are still places in these great United States where you cannot get electricity. If you move there, you are on your own. Forget about water, sewer, trash, cable t.v., telephone. Ironically, in most of these places, with a little determination you can get satellite service. And don't say it "doesn't count". It does when you don't have anything.
--
Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America.

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DownTheShore
Honoring The Captain
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL

Go Finland!

For people who are always online, the majority of you seem to be a bunch of cranky butts when it comes to even considering that broadband should be something that all citizens are guaranteed access to. Come on, the internet is as necessary to most of us now as breathing is. Instead of sticking your heads in the sand over fear that doing that here would somehow cost you money or - horrors of horrors - be somehow socialistic, unstick your heads from the sand and take a giant step into the 21st century already. Sheesh.
--
Patriotism is not waving a flag, it is living the ideals

Today's GOP Leadership: Idiots, Liars, and Seditionists

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NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

A what?

quote:
Meanwhile, Finland's Ministry of Transport and Communications today declared broadband a national legal right.

I suppose we could, if we liked, declare three square meals a day a legal right, or transportation a legal right, or ...
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

odnc
Premium
join:2002-02-04
Richmond, VA

Re: A what?

said by NormanS:


I suppose we could, if we liked, declare three square meals a day a legal right, or transportation a legal right, or ...

I think we do. Certain social programs provide meals and others provide transportation to subsidised jobs. At least for some people.
--
This country needs an enema.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: A what?

Well, sort of. There are usually conditions attached to those programs. I couldn't get three squares from any program out there, even though I am currently unemployed.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

HRM
God Bless America
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-03
Darien, CT
kudos:1

Smaller = everything is simpler

Nothing against them, but it isn't that hard to believe. Imagine how easy things would be if all we had to do was worry about an area as large as Montana with a population a bit bigger than Manhattan.

Population: 5,244,749 (July 2008 est.)

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: Smaller = everything is simpler

said by HRM:

Nothing against them, but it isn't that hard to believe. Imagine how easy things would be if all we had to do was worry about an area as large as Montana with a population a bit bigger than Manhattan.

Population: 5,244,749 (July 2008 est.)
Except Manhattan doesn't have anywhere near 100 Mbps. So the whole "These countries are smaller than the US " argument goes out the window. How come Rhode Island, which is smaller than several COUNTIES in the US, doesn't have 100 Mbps broadband?

karlmarx

join:2006-09-18
Chicago, IL

It's a question of how a country treats it citizens

In Finland, apparently, they feel that access to high speed internet is important enough to mandate it. Let's face it, the US, for all it's vastness, is in a serious moral hole when it comes to providing for it's citizens. Most of the civilized world treats health care as a RIGHT, and yes, they pay higher taxes for it, but the citizens of the rest of the world are treated FAR better than our so called 'christian' America. If the fin's think that broadband will better their citizens, then they just pass a law mandating it. I would LOVE to see the US treat it's citizens as more that just 'GDP generators', and treat EVERY American citizen with the dignity and respect they deserve.

I HAVE to laugh at the hypocrisy of someone like Sarah Palin, who HATES the idea of abortion, HATES the idea of government health care, YET, still gave birth to a downs syndrome child who will cost the STATE far more than he will ever contribute. How she can preach one thing, yet live her life in the exact opposite shows you how far out of touch with reality the republican party is.
--
The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity!
DufiefData

join:2006-06-13
Gaithersburg, MD

Total stupidity

"as of next July every person in Finland will have the right to a one-megabit broadband connection"
Are they serious? HAAAA! What total eurotrash idiocy!

I think water, whole-wheat bread, anodized aluminum pots and a cellphone are also "legal rights". Give 'em to me!!!

"and in 126 days the FCC has to inform Congress how they hope to improve broadband penetration and competition here in the States."
Why should the FCC be "hoping to improve broadband penetration and competition"? The companies and technologies to do this are already active. The market and groups of citizens will deploy the mix of broadband technologies they want that make financial sense.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

Re: Total stupidity

La La La La...

Uh, nope. The technology is here to do this, but the incumbents are fighting tooth and nail to wring every ounce of money out of us while providing the LEAST possible service. It's not enough.

menumorut
BE an American.

join:2005-07-04
Queens Village, NY
Not again with the the grass is greener...... analogy. What a crock!

I went to see it with my own eyes in Europe and let me tell you in most of the countries is brownish like color.

I remember a politician running for a region president that promised a 1 MB broadband connection to every family in that religion(size of a US medium size state) for free (public statement).
He got elected (not because the broadband promised, because grand majority of people were stupid) and you guessed right he forgot about the promise.
That politician even moved to a higher post in the federal government and never delivered one free broadband connection.

Health care being free!!!? AND substandard quality (actually is not free, is payed by high taxes).
I rather pay for my health care through private insurgence and get moderate quality health care than being on socialized medicine where family doctors do consults with a chronometer under their desk in order to make the quota for the day.

Americans think health care is expensive now?

Wait until the "free"(the European way) kicks in to see how expensive will get.
--
Give the world changes at a pace it can absorb.

fritz43
Premium
join:2004-03-14
Reviews:
·Comcast

Good luck with that, Finland.

"Why should the FCC be "hoping to improve broadband penetration and competition"? The companies and technologies to do this are already active. The market and groups of citizens will deploy the mix of broadband technologies they want that make financial sense."

Of course you can bet that corporate greed will shove aside any genuine concern for the public good. It will always be thus. That's the nature of the private sector. I wouldn't expect much.

As for the public sector, one of the most terrifying sentences in the English language is, "We're from the government and we're here to help you." Thanks, but no thanks.

In actual fact, we have very few rights the so-called Bill of Rights notwithstanding (the right to remain silent, mostly). People whining about rights are mostly just describing whored-up wants.
--
Help stamp out hate; and haters.
motojapi

join:2001-10-24
Marietta, GA

Some Facts

I checked some facts regarding this item. Basically the "100 megs to all" actually means that in rural areas fiber or cable connection will be pulled only within 2 km (about 1 1/4 mi) of a dwelling, not all the way. Sharing the connection between service providers is mandatory.

In hard-to-reach-spots like the archipelago connection would be done using wireless technology etc and the 100 meg minimum would not apply.

Financing for this project would come from auctioning off 2.5 GHz spectrum for 4G use. Still quite a task for a country with 40 persons/sq.mi. (exactly half compared to the US).
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

Re: Some Facts

Oh, so they're being intelligent and realistic about the situation. They're not looking for absolutes. They're looking at "the spirit" of the endeavor. Wow, what a concept... We could learn A LOT from that sort of thinking...
Raficoo

join:2006-11-14

1 edit

Re: Some Facts

heh.. more Countries where BroadBand is becoming a Right.. yet i am still stuck with this crappy 300ms+ (4GB/4GB/)Month $46/month connection for 3 years(Lebanon-Middle East).. wish there was an international Right making Company or something lol

dam i miss my Country

gotta get me that one day lol

please don't laugh at the Upload.. Europe has download.. not that much Upload

Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

Not sure

I am not sure I would call it a right but I understand countries like Finland stating that. Much easier for them to implement this type of theory than us. With the size of our country population/literal-size-wise, I doubt we will see anything near this for the foreseeable future.

With that said, I am encouraged to see how much broadband seems to be taking off compared to 5 years ago. We seem to be heading in the RIGHT direction

menumorut
BE an American.

join:2005-07-04
Queens Village, NY

Re: Not sure

said by Bill Neilson:

I am not sure I would call it a right but I understand countries like Finland stating that. Much easier for them to implement this type of theory than us. With the size of our country population/literal-size-wise, I doubt we will see anything near this for the foreseeable future.

With that said, I am encouraged to see how much broadband seems to be taking off compared to 5 years ago. We seem to be heading in the RIGHT direction
It seams that is not that bad:

»www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/busin···igi.html

What is bothering me is the following phrase:

....show that just 30 percent of Americans who are 65 or older use broadband, compared with 77 percent of the 18-to-29 age group. (Which raises an interesting question itself: only 77 percent?)

News strait from inside the dungeon:

»www.arcticstartup.com/2009/10/15···so-what/

This is really funny:

Almost everyone is referring to the fact that Finland has taken a great step forward as it will be wiring the entire country for everyone. To disappoint you, this won’t be the case. There is a twist in the text that states the true meaning of the law: it’s a legal right to have a 1 Mbps connection, but it isn’t stated that it will be free.

You got to love those Euro(pee)ons. And this is one of the more civilized Northern nations.If you go to the Southern ones they probably ask to be paid to receive a free 1 Mbps socialized broadband connection.
--
One can only speak in tongs so many times before landing on a perfectly working spell that could turn anyone in to a frog.

Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

Re: Not sure

In the last 2 years, I have seen more older family/friends of mine get onto the internet bandwagon than at any other time in my life. Work all over the country seems to be jumping on the internet (I am sure most business already have but more on continuing to join)

I suspect we will see the number rise considerably in the next few years.