bgraham
join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY Reviews:
 ·VOIPo
·Verizon VoiceWing
| Management Failure? It seems Fairpoint management were pretty dumb to accept a poor deal from Verizon. Can't really blame Verizon management for getting the best possible deal from Fairpoint.
Verizon management probably walked away from the deal laughing to themselves. |
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| Fairpoints Disaster Regulators be damned, they didn't regulate or review anything about this transaction. Always using the excuse Verizon didn't want to be here. Verizon expanded slowly, but was expanding the network non-the-less. Fairpoint hasn't been able to get out of its own way. Regulators were given a choice and failed to do their jobs. |
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MTUPremium
join:2005-02-15
San Luis Obispo, CA | Reverse Morris Trust Interesting example of corporative 'creative' financing. Reading up on the "Reverse Morris Trust" hat-trick was illuminating. Avoiding paying of taxes is what makes Wall Street hum. |
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 cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | Why they went with a RMT quote:
Verizon’s desire to avoid paying taxes apparently was so great that it did not auction the properties or entertain other offers from more financially qualified firms.
Make money and lose debt, or make money and keep depth. Geez. I wonder why they went the way they went.
Verizon's a company...a for-profit publicly traded company. They have one goal in life, to make money for their shareholders. EVERY SINGLE THING they do ultimately goes back to the question "does this help make a profit for the shareholder?"
If they are looking at divesting a large chunk of their territory, they really aren't all that worried about what happens to the customers once they are out of the picture. The success or failure of whoever buys the lines from them really isn't Verizon's concern. If they can make more money by doing a RMT and offloading their debt, then they are going to go that route rather then auctioning it off piecemeal. If they can make more auctioning it off peacemeal rather then a RMT, then they go that route.
Does it suck for customers? Probably if the buying company fails. If it's a big enough deal, the PUC, FCC, FTC, SEC, IRS, or the FBI and CIA (did I miss any TLA?) should have objected or closed the ability to do the RMT. But the fact is that all those groups in one way or another approved it or at least didn't object. |
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| The regulators are at fault ... The regulators should have done their job better ...
They should have protected the end user NOT Verizons
bottom line ... So, in the end the consumers get stuck
I figure FairPoint will be filing in by mid November ... An
we will need to find a new provider .... |
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 Jim GurdPremium
join:2000-07-08
Plymouth, MI | reply to MTU
Re: Reverse Morris Trust said by MTU:Interesting example of corporative 'creative' financing. Reading up on the "Reverse Morris Trust" hat-trick was illuminating. Avoiding paying of taxes is what makes Wall Street hum. It seems to me that the government is at fault for creating the loophole in the first place. I don't blame Verizon for exploiting it. They simply used tax laws to their maximum advantage just like anyone else would do.
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The Mogambo Guru economic newsletter, an avocational exercise to heap disrespect on those who desperately deserve it. |
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| this deal sucked And this is just one more reason why we have to have a goverment that watched out for its citizens.
we need to have regulation whether you agree or not big companies do not care about the little guy and only care about lining their pockets.
and note there is a big difference in owning a business and making money plus being fair and not losing your scruples as opposed to having a business and being greedy and uncaring |
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| why believe a union official? and we are to believe this simply because a union official said so?
The bankruptcy might actually be a good idea for the company, they can use it to get rid of the union contracts, which would be a good idea! |
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 SnowymIRC unix.ro UnderNetPremium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Clearwire Wireless
1 edit | Dump the debt & buy back the leaner bankrupt company Verizon dumped a bunch of debt on Hawaiian Telcom in it's sale to them too. Hawaiian Telcom dumped the debt in it's bankruptcy filing. That's how you get rid of debt, let someone assume it who will eventually file for bankruptcy.
It's a shame & shouldn't be allowed.
»Fairpoint Will Fold |
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| reply to steveymacjr
Re: why believe a union official? A good idea? Get rid of the people that have worked for the phone company for 30 years. Get rid of the people that worked 20 hours a day in the ice storms for weeks? Get rid of the people who protested this sale to this ill-equiped company from NORTH CAROLINA, STEVE. Should the people that gave you a contract for lets say, your mortgage, car loan, health care, etc be allowed to just get rid of it because they overspent to buy, and had no cash on hand. There are about 2000 union members that will tell you the same thing that the union officials have said. Get the facts straight Steve. You can't push New Englanders and not expect them to push back. |
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cptmilesPremium
join:2004-04-22
Swayzee, IN | Lessons learned Yes Fairpoint will file for bankruptcy. It is inevitable. This is the 3rd or 4th time Verizon has done this very thing. When are the states going to learn their lessons from other states. Indiana, please do not let Verizon walk away from the state. Threaten them with fines until they make every single person in their rotten territories DSL capable at the very least. If they do not or cannot then fine the crap out of them until they are willing to sell it for what it is worth. Maybe 300 bucks a line at the most. Give tax breaks and incentives to the buying companies. Verizon is the smart ass kid with the poop eating grin in the corner everyone wants to take a shot at.
I think Frontier is a descent company that may make a go of it, but should these state take a chance. If I haven't said it enough yet...Make 1.5M MANDATORY for 30 bucks or less and make them do it before they take their money and run. Do IT. |
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openbox9Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2 | reply to gorehound
Re: this deal sucked said by gorehound:And this is just one more reason why we have to have a goverment that watched out for its citizens. we need to have regulation The telcos are already regulated and the regulators allowed this transaction. Should Fairpoint fail, it is the government that dropped the ball. |
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 tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3
·Comcast
| reply to steveymacjr
Re: why believe a union official? Why just union contracts? (people actually working to keep thing running) Why not tell the suppliers to take a leap? ("We've got your equipment, try and take it back!!") or the lenders ("sorry, no money for you")
The problem started with the regulators (and regulations (some dating far back) which allowed verizon to escape and even profit for it's OBLIGATION to serve those areas (in return for previous favorable tax treatment, exclusive access, etc. etc.) if anything the should have had to BUY themselves out of those commitments by funding/guaranteeing service to existing customer. |
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tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
| reply to cptmiles
Re: Lessons learned Frontier is an decent company, but they aren't prepare or capable of taking managment control of x00% of there current customer load, and x00 times 10 of debt. (no company is unless they intend to 'strip the assets' and sell the bones)
This isn't even about a set broadband speed or assuring RELIABLE basic telephone service.
It about"...by allowing this, have regulators allowed the creation of an ongoing viable (porfitable) business that can and WILL continue to serve the public OR is this a process of shedding debt? (assets to be later reabsorbed)
Regulations need to change to coordinate the balance of protective benfit to corp's( and individuals) vs RESPONSIBLITIES to meet their OBLIGATIONS. |
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SnowymIRC unix.ro UnderNetPremium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6 Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
·Clearwire Wireless
| said by tshirt:...OR is this a process of shedding debt? (assets to be later reabsorbed) Regulations need to change to coordinate the balance of protective benfit to corp's( and individuals) vs RESPONSIBLITIES to meet their OBLIGATIONS. You've hit that proverbial nail on it's head!
Imagine buying into debt of Verizon only to wake one morning to find that Verizon dumped it's obligation to pay you back into an entity that you would have never considered buying into.
It's a disgraceful situation, par for Verizon. |
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| reply to GenBlood
Re: The regulators are at fault ... Oh please , the regulators did their job.
Verizon wanted no part of those states and needed to offload it.
If Verizon didn't offload they would have just kept jacking the rates and you would be griping just the same.
Welcome to america.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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| Darwin Uh, seems like Fairpoint should have walked away from the deal if it was that bad. Did their CFO attend the John "Bluto" Blutarsky MBA program or something?
If the applicable laws were followed this is nothing more than corporate survival of the fittest: Companies whose boards make very bad decision cease to exist. |
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 tim_kButtons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, KaseyPremium,VIP
join:2002-02-02
Stewartstown, PA
kudos:25 | reply to steveymacjr
Re: why believe a union official? said by steveymacjr:The bankruptcy might actually be a good idea for the company, they can use it to get rid of the union contracts, which would be a good idea! Once again the government fails to do its job. Once again they look the other way as pockets are lined. If Steve's wishes come true the rank & file will take large pay cuts. But never fear, the executives will still make out like bandits »www.fiercetelecom.com/story/fair···09-05-06 like they always do.
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RIP my babies Buttons 1/15/94-2/9/07, Beamer 7/24/08, & Bows 12/17/94-10/11/09 |
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| reply to bgraham
Re: Management Failure? Don't forget the previous CEO from Failpoint and CapGemini *along* with Verizon had a part in this. And the states regulators that *approved* this.
And I fail to see "cdru" argument that Verizon shouldn't be held liable as a utility (they are accountable to Public Utilities Commission) and not a profitable company. If they were "profitable" they wouldn't have needed to unload those states DSL lines.
Greed. Its what will kill you and make someone else's wallet fatter.
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Splat |
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Reviews:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to steveymacjr
Re: why believe a union official? Why blame Verizon? All they did was get the best deal they could. Can you blame them for that?
If you sold your house and the next owner let it get run down and junky, would it be fair for the neighbors to blame you? Do you have a responsibility to sell it to a lower bidder because they will take better care of the place?
Fairpoint is in charge now. They and they alone are responsible.
The unions are going to do what they have to to line their own pockets. If Fairpoint had offered them a ton of dough, the union would have happily looked the other way and probably would have even lobbied in favor of the sale no matter how it would affect customer service.
The line about how the union "cares about the customers" is horse shit.
mocycler |
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