  MurdocPremium
join:2009-02-08
Manitowoc, WI | must have something to hide. Its time for the government and these bad telco companies to be held accountable, quit hiding it already! | |
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 | | | Re: must have something to hide. said by Murdoc:Its time for the government and these bad telco companies to be held accountable, quit hiding it already! Ya really think that is going to happen? We are talking about the same companies that embezzled monies from uncle Sam that was supposed to be used to wire rural communities. | |
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| |  ReformCRTCSupport Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada | Re: must have something to hide. like Manitowoc, Wisconsin and sundry one-horse towns. | |
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| | | yup they do and when it comes out your all gonna be REALLY REALLY HAPPY | |
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| k2nnj
join:2004-05-06
Caldwell, NJ Reviews:
 ·Comcast
| The government whoever is President has a constitutional duty to protect the citizens of the United States.
If disclosing these documents jeopardizes that duty, then the documents should not be released. Even if a federal judge says so. BO should exercise executive privilege to perclude these documents from being disclosed in the public and ultimately in the hands of our enemies.
I am by no means a supporter of BO and I did not vote for him. But in this narrow instance I agree.
There are plenty of other areas where the administration needs to have transparency, like where our tax dollars are being spent. | |
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| | | | Re: must have something to hide. yea form the corupt , form the thieving they do , from the lies , the cheating, the stupid laws they make to screw you all more.
YUP THATS PROTECTION WE NEED | |
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1 edit |  Gov't involvement in business opens Pandora's Box
If the Obama administration is acting to shield these companies from financial damage, that raises questions about whether that's the government's job The gov't, for right or wrong, has LONG made it their policy to undertake actions to improve the US economy, and those companies that are part of it. And many of those who are lobbying now for disclosure are the biggest proponents of gov't involvement in the economy. So, it appears that they are only for gov't intrusion in business when it suits their own political leanings. Looks like they forgot one of the universal truths - get gov't involved in running business, you get the bad along with the good. THE BAD, of course, depending on one's political inclinations.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
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|  VanPremium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA | Re: Gov't involvement in business opens Pandora's Box said by fAcEtIOUs:And many of those who are lobbying now for disclosure are the biggest proponents of gov't involvement in the economy. Not sure I agree with that whatsoever.
I see hardcore conservatives and liberals all wanting disclosure. | |
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| | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: Gov't involvement in business opens Pandora's Box said by Van:I see hardcore conservatives and liberals all wanting disclosure. For different reasons? The liberals are supporting their party's proclamation of transparency, while the conservatives are calling out the liberals' failures of keeping promises of transparency. | |
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| | |  TimePremium
join:2003-07-05
·Cox HSI
| Re: Gov't involvement in business opens Pandora's Box said by openbox9:said by Van:I see hardcore conservatives and liberals all wanting disclosure. For different reasons? The liberals are supporting their party's proclamation of transparency, while the conservatives are calling out the liberals' failures of keeping promises of transparency. [sarcasm]
He's not even "1 freakin' year" in guys, both the liberals and conservatives should give him a break, since everything is going to magically change in January.
[/sarcasm]
Anyways, yeah, you're right on.
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"If it can't be done with brains, it can't be done with hours" - Clarence "Kelly" Johnson | |
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| | | VanPremium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA | said by openbox9:said by Van:I see hardcore conservatives and liberals all wanting disclosure. For different reasons? The liberals are supporting their party's proclamation of transparency, while the conservatives are calling out the liberals' failures of keeping promises of transparency. Good point | |
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| Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| said by fAcEtIOUs:The gov't, for right or wrong, has LONG made it their policy to undertake actions to improve the US economy, and those companies that are part of it. .... hahahahaha. that's funny.
you got the "...improve...those companies.." part right; not so much the US economy part.
the govts policies have done wonders for the bankrupt financial institutions that have ruined our economy, but they haven't done squat for the overall US economy. all the govt has done is try to re-inflate the bubble, debase the dollar and hope things get better before the sh!t hits the fan again. | |
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1 edit | yea thats why they have record unemployment and need
a COMMUNIST COUNTRY to prop them up financially
YEA FRAKING COMMIES
and how you explain the riaa lawyers and joe bidden as your vice president. Yaaaa o.....k | |
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 Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika | Chicago pay to play? Change you can believe in. | |
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| | | Re: Chicago pay to play? If Bush was in office Harry Reid and Nancy Bitch would stomp over to the White House and get the documents themselves, but they will play by Black Jesus' rules all day. | |
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| | Z801 point 77Premium
join:2009-08-31
Amerika | Re: Chicago pay to play? The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Hope wasn't in 2008, it's in 2010. | |
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 manfmmdPremium
join:2003-01-14
Earth, TX
 ·AT&T Southwest
·CMA Access
| and - 'Blatant Trolling' .. -
I thought my response was perfect...
pfft.
How about I put it into text.
We told you so. Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss. The sooner people realize this, the better.
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"The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan | |
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1 edit | Stop living in a fantasy world... Even the most liberal president in modern history is protecting them for a reason. His #1 job is to protect the USA. He and his most liberal advisors have entered office and see the horrors that have been planned against this country and this program helps keep us safe.
I don't think you folks understand the dangers we face. I don't think Obama did until he started getting the daily briefings.
You can go on quoting Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, but quotes don't save lives.
Bush is gone. Its time to realize there really is a threat out there to our society and Obama is now in charge of protecting us. I know before it was fun to make fun of Bush's grammar and believed he trumped up all of the threats.
Here's something to chew on... What if he wasn't... What would you do? | |
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| manfmmdPremium
join:2003-01-14
Earth, TX Reviews:
·AT&T Southwest
·CMA Access
| Re: Stop living in a fantasy world... said by Go Tarheels:Even the most liberal president in modern history is protecting them for a reason. His #1 job is to protect the USA. He and his most liberal advisors have entered office and see the horrors that have been planned against this country and this program helps keep us safe. I don't think you folks understand the dangers we face. I don't think Obama did until he started getting the daily briefings. You can go on quoting Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, but quotes don't save lives. Bush is gone. Its time to realize there really is a threat out there to our society and Obama is now in charge of protecting us. I know before it was fun to make fun of Bush's grammar and believed he trumped up all of the threats. Here's something to chew on... What if he wasn't... What would you do? I think if they posted the information that is contained in the daily briefings in every major newspaper on the front page for 2 days, a good 3/4 of this county would shit their collective pants.
As Colonel Jessup once said:
"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have more responsibility here than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. I know deep down in places you dont talk about at parties, you don't want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!"
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"The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan | |
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| |  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: Stop living in a fantasy world... said by manfmmd:I think if they posted the information that is contained in the daily briefings in every major newspaper on the front page for 2 days, a good 3/4 of this county would shit their collective pants. Thats not true. The people who are arguing against proactively protecting this country are of the belief that sticking their heads in the sand will take care of the problem. 
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"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
-Ronald Reagan-
»www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html
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| | | | why do yo uhave to quote someone in an army are they some how important or somehting more so then real people? Maybe instead a quoting people that KILL others for a living go get a doctors opinion or maybe a nurse OR maybe some people off the street.
AND if i get soooo OLD that i ramble on like that colonel please do shoot me | |
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| |  james
join:2001-02-26
CWCville USA | Yes, and then he was arrested. Maybe you missed the point of the movie? | |
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| | | I agree wholeheartedly. I am glad that Obama has awoken to this fact so soon. | |
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| | | | Re: Stop living in a fantasy world... Thats unfortunate they believe that way. You know the funny thing is, I wish the world was that way.
The reality is, it's not....
I commend the President for keeping us safe so far. I am glad he is using renditions.
Its quite ironic actually - he wins by stopping the US "torture", but will send their ass to Pakistan to be really tortured.
He closes club gitmo and talks of lockin 'em up for 23 hours daily in supermax prison.
Its a win - win for Obama, yet both programs are worse for the actual terrorists the left was yelling to protect. | |
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| lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL
1 edit | said by Go Tarheels:Here's something to chew on... What if he wasn't... What would you do? They would still blame Bush and award Obama employee of the month. | |
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| | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: Stop living in a fantasy world... said by lesopp:said by Go Tarheels:Here's something to chew on... What if he wasn't... What would you do? They would still blame Bush and award Obama employee of the month. Hilarious, but sad because its true. | |
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| | | said by Go Tarheels:Even the most liberal president in modern history is protecting them for a reason. His #1 job is to protect the USA. He and his most liberal advisors have entered office and see the horrors that have been planned against this country and this program helps keep us safe. I don't think you folks understand the dangers we face. I don't think Obama did until he started getting the daily briefings. You can go on quoting Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, but quotes don't save lives. Bush is gone. Its time to realize there really is a threat out there to our society and Obama is now in charge of protecting us. I know before it was fun to make fun of Bush's grammar and believed he trumped up all of the threats. Here's something to chew on... What if he wasn't... What would you do? O.k. I would buy this EXCEPT you have Pelosi and Reid calling for heads to roll in the "torture" cases that happened during the Bush Administration.
This is not about protecting the country but to protect a few people in power. If it were about protecting the country, then the "waterboarding" that took place would also be pushed under the rug like the current administration is trying to do with this telco immunity.
Maybe after Obama leaves office, we can put him and his administration on trial and see what happens. | |
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| | | | Re: Stop living in a fantasy world... That is political pandering.
Its part of the game. What difference is it if we do it, with a couple of ER docs watching or sending their ass to a 3rd world nation to do real torture?
Of course Pelosi and Reid are calling for heads to roll. Thats throwing a bone to their base. They really don't care about it. You are talking like 3-4 admitted killers.
Again, you had people plot and kill 3000 Americans. If you are a truther, then there is no talking sense into you, but if you believe it was planned and done by the people who admitted to doing it, then you have to realize the threat is still there.... | |
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| | | | | Re: Stop living in a fantasy world... said by Go Tarheels:That is political pandering. Its part of the game. What difference is it if we do it, with a couple of ER docs watching or sending their ass to a 3rd world nation to do real torture? Of course Pelosi and Reid are calling for heads to roll. Thats throwing a bone to their base. They really don't care about it. You are talking like 3-4 admitted killers. Again, you had people plot and kill 3000 Americans. If you are a truther, then there is no talking sense into you, but if you believe it was planned and done by the people who admitted to doing it, then you have to realize the threat is still there.... I am no truther. I do believe that pissed off Muslims did this deed and i don't think the government has the imagination nor the competence to carry out this type of operation without someone blabbing about it.
That being said, I have no problem torturing people who do not believe in rights for others of a different religion.
What bothers me is Pelosi knew about the torture and said nothing until after Obama was in office and then denied she heard it. Pure political pandering and yet, most people don't see it. I'll bet that if another attack does happen, they will still blame Bush.
Sometimes, I feel like we need an IQ test to vote. | |
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| | | | binded2
join:2009-08-11
Providence, RI | Re: Stop living in a fantasy world... said by moonpuppy:said by Go Tarheels:That is political pandering. Its part of the game. What difference is it if we do it, with a couple of ER docs watching or sending their ass to a 3rd world nation to do real torture? Of course Pelosi and Reid are calling for heads to roll. Thats throwing a bone to their base. They really don't care about it. You are talking like 3-4 admitted killers. Again, you had people plot and kill 3000 Americans. If you are a truther, then there is no talking sense into you, but if you believe it was planned and done by the people who admitted to doing it, then you have to realize the threat is still there.... I am no truther. I do believe that pissed off Muslims did this deed and i don't think the government has the imagination nor the competence to carry out this type of operation without someone blabbing about it. That being said, I have no problem torturing people who do not believe in rights for others of a different religion. What bothers me is Pelosi knew about the torture and said nothing until after Obama was in office and then denied she heard it. Pure political pandering and yet, most people don't see it. I'll bet that if another attack does happen, they will still blame Bush. Sometimes, I feel like we need an IQ test to vote. bush is a retard and had no fucking bussiness being in office any ways he was nothing but a puppet and did what he was told to do like he was suppost to do
what we need to do is find out who was pullin that dicks strings | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Stop living in a fantasy world... Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house!
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BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils! | |
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|  N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | I have no doubt when Obama started getting the same national security briefings as Bush, he muttered the phrase "what the F#$K" under his breath.
It's my understanding that once the final 2 candidates reach the tail end of their run, they start getting the same briefs as the President.
So while Obama is talking about change on one hand, on the other he knows what he has to do.
I hope the President, whoever he is, does what it takes to keep us safe.
But as was stated before. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. I'm not looking to torpedo the man. I understand he's only been there a year, blah blah blah.
But let's face it folks, any better than Bush did? Take Obama off the telepormpter and it's a train wreck. Guantanamo Bay is still open, we're still in Iraq, and Afghanistan is starting to implode. The wire tapping that went on under Bush continues under Obama. No real "change". Same old same old from another slick politician.
It's not my intention to criticize. Simply to point out facts. So many people got caught up in the cult of personality. At the same time everyone was hatin' on Bush, he came along and got the collective to buy his story.
IMHO, one step above a really good car salesman that wants NOTHING to do with a second term. He'll either find a reason not to run again, or he'll run a half ass campaign the second time around. I don't think he understood what he was getting himself into when he threw his hat into the ring, and even more so when he actually got there.
Right now, Obama is wishing he was still in the Senate. I know I would be if I were him....
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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| Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
1 edit | Tarheels Fan - since I haven't seen Ben's quote in this thread yet, here ya go:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
security theater and violating constitutional liberties hasn't saved lives either. neither has stupidity or invading countries that neither attacked us nor were involved with 9/11.
here's another quote: we have nothing to fear, but fear itself.
you sound scared; I'm not. | |
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| | | PLEASE!
said by Go Tarheels:Even the most liberal president in modern history is protecting them for a reason. His #1 job is to protect the USA. He and his most liberal advisors have entered office and see the horrors that have been planned against this country and this program helps keep us safe. I don't think you folks understand the dangers we face. I don't think Obama did until he started getting the daily briefings. You can go on quoting Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, but quotes don't save lives. Bush is gone. Its time to realize there really is a threat out there to our society and Obama is now in charge of protecting us. I know before it was fun to make fun of Bush's grammar and believed he trumped up all of the threats. Here's something to chew on... What if he wasn't... What would you do? | |
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| | | said by Go Tarheels:Even the most liberal president in modern history is protecting them for a reason. His #1 job is to protect the USA. He and his most liberal advisors have entered office and see the horrors that have been planned against this country and this program helps keep us safe. Unfortunately, many PEOPLE are basically suicidal dreamers who think the world can be some wonderful place where everyone is altruistic. And if they stick their heads in the sand, all threats to the US from abroad will just disappear because they can't see them with their heads 2 ft underground. Fortunately, most presidents(except maybe Jimmy Carter), learn very quickly that the world is an extremely dangerous dog-eat-dog place. And they wise up and take actions that go against their previously incorrect rosy view of the world.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
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|  DrModemPremium
join:2006-10-19
USA
kudos:1
1 edit | You can go on quoting Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, but quotes don't save lives. Sure.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. | |
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| | VanPremium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA | Re: Stop living in a fantasy world... said by wifi4milez:Great post, too bad the lib-sheeple just dont seem to grasp the reality of what the world has become. The terrorists dont care that Bush is gone, they want to kill us just as much (if not more) than before. Agreed. Their desire has only grown because of the botched war in Iraq and Afghanistan.
While Bush set us to make us safer, he has only made the threat much worse. | |
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| ReformCRTCSupport Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada | Franklin and Jefferson would faint if they knew the shit that goes on today. | |
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See 16 replies to this post |
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glinc
join:2009-04-07
New York, NY | Bribe!!! Check obama's bank account to see how much bribe he received from att and verizon to delay those docs! | |
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| openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: Bribe!!! I believe there is a larger reason to prevent the release of these documents. If that turns out not to be the case, then I'm much more inclined to believe that the delay is to protect people in government, not AT&T or Verizon. AT&T and Verizon already have immunity, what do they really have to lose at this point? | |
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| | Reviews:
 ·magicjack.com
| Re: Bribe!!! said by openbox9:I believe there is a larger reason to prevent the release of these documents. I think it has something to do with the year-long period before AG Ashcroft was replaced by Gonzales. Comey's testimony to Congress said Ashcroft refused to re-certify something, and there was a big squabble about it while Ashcroft underwent surgery. Comey said he was told it was certified anyway. A year later Gonzales replaced Ashcroft.
My guess is that Bush certified it himself. And, both he and Obama want to avoid the legal/constitutional question of whether 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(a)(ii)(B) is limited exclusively (literally) to the Attorney General. Or, if it's a broader recognition of power residing in the Executive branch (and, since the AG is subordinate to the Executive, it's implied that the Executive can certify warrantless surveillance.).
Or, it may not be that complicated. Obama (now holding the Executive office) may have a fiduciary duty to protect that office and its powers. Make it as difficult as possible for political activists to undermine the office's authority.
Make no mistake, the anti-surveillance, pro-civil suit group are just political activists who are trying to accomplish through the judicial system what they couldn't accomplish through the political system.
Mark | |
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 El Quintron... a faint odor of kerosenePremium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:2 | Records need to be made public Lobbying records are not national defence issues.
The government should stop procrastinating, deliver the records and process wrongdoers through the courts. | |
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 n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY | Boss "Meet the new boss - same as the old boss" | |
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| | Didn't this guy promise a more transparent government? Change, we can believe in. | |
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| ReformCRTCSupport Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada | Re: Didn't this guy promise a more transparent government? Pennies in your pocket. Change you can believe in. | |
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| | | CHange in HIS pocket thats what i said after i found out biden was his Vice president | |
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 HarddriveProud American and Infidel since 1968.Premium
join:2000-09-20
Phone Room
kudos:2
·Comcast
| Big Business = Big Government how else is the CEO of the USA gonna survive after his Presidency? the man's gotta get retirement from some of the Companies he has supported during his term in office. its not like that Noble Peace Prize is gonna pay his grocery bill every month when he moves back to Chicago.
tactics changed Mr. President.
from "Yes We Can" to "No We Won't".
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I've come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass and i'm all outta bubblegum. | |
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 RobIn Deo speramus, God Bless the USAPremium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:2 | Does it matter anymore? President Obama, shortly after taking office, published the torture memos - memos which I believe should have never been released, because we still have enemies, both domestic and foreign.
The fact that he had no problem releasing those, but has an issue releasing these wiretap immunity lobbying docs clearly tells me that the telcos are in charge of our government.
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CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us | |
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| | | Re: Does it matter anymore? not just the telcos, it's the **AA, record companies, newspapers. They have all given enormouse amounts of money, hookers, and drugs to various government agencies and they expect a return on their investment. | |
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| | | | Re: Does it matter anymore? fascism? Corporatism?
Yup, this is what I've been saying for a good long while. There is going to be a revolution some day soon. Maybe we need it? | |
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| | bad government Really?!
Obama's Administration is being WAY to childish, why don't they just hand over the freakin records and take their punishment....
honestly, that's what happens when you listen too much to the little telcos | |
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|  JBpX
join:2009-05-14 | Re: bad government .... obama inherited this wiretapping fiasco, he did not introduce it... thanks | |
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| |  habyaPremium
join:2003-05-29
Huntsville, AL | Re: bad government Just because you inherit a fiasco doesn't mean you need to keep that fiasco going... thanks  . | |
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DrModemPremium
join:2006-10-19
USA
kudos:1 | "National Security" I would like to know, where our grand government intelligence was when actual terrorists(not FBI engineered idiots who are called terrorists after the FBI decides to stop playing with their food) struck Washington DC itself in a successful campaign of terror barely a year after September 11 2001.
I am of course referring to the Beltway Sniper Attacks of 2002.
Those beltway attacks could easily happen again today, in DC or any other area, and be equally if not moreso successful if the perps were more careful.
Those are REAL terrorists. And the government hasn't actually shown merit in catching them.
The beltway snipers were only caught by accident. | |
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| manfmmdPremium
join:2003-01-14
Earth, TX | Re: "National Security" It is true what they say about bliss? | |
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| | Privacy or Security? Choose ONE! Unfortunately you can't have both. | |
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binded2
join:2009-08-11
Providence, RI | sick and tired of this bull why must se be subjected to the same stories over and over again.
as for the delays they need to start fining people or str8 locking mother fuckers up untill the docs are released
including the pres if need be hes been ordered by a us fed judge to release these files
if this was any one else they would be locked up
if it was me i would be locked up
if it was a company they would be fined every day till they compiled
get with the fucking program | |
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| | He's a closet republican And he bows to those that pull his puppet strings. | |
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| | Large fallout? Perhaps they are hesitant to release the data because of a possible large fallout that would leave the country in political shambles...
- A
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LETS GO METS! | |
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| | Here is what we get by electing Obama Here is what we get by electing Obama. | |
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| | | Re: Here is what we get by electing Obama Oh yes, war in iraq ending, gitmo closing, funding for public transportation, all evillll eevilllllllllllllll!
- A
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LETS GO METS! | |
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