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Comments on news posted 2009-10-27 10:00:45: In California, Verizon has been slowing their deployment of FiOS to new neighborhoods in Orange County. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next


ddg4005
Premium
join:2001-08-22
Bronx, NY

Fios deployment slowing

If this is true I hope it doesn't effect NYC. Parts of the Bronx have already been wired except for my neighborhood and most of the west side.
--
A man must have a code -Bunk


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:44
They signed a deal with NYC To have the entire thing wired by 2014. Any slowdown shouldn't impact these big city franchise agreements -- though I'd still expect Verizon to wiggle out of full coverage to less profitable neighborhoods down the line.

psbny

join:2002-01-06
Peekskill, NY

franchises in New York State

I'm pretty sure they have abandoned negotiations for additional franchises throughout New York State as well.


lkviewguy

join:2004-02-13
Chicago, IL
reply to Karl Bode

Re: Fios deployment slowing

Agreements are meant t be broken. Telcos have a looooooong history of not living up to their end of agreements. I serious doubt the city of NY will be entirely wired by 2014 just because they said so.


eagleI

@comcast.net
reply to psbny

Re: franchises in New York State

they're only going to turn up ruffly 50 sites next year, compared to the 150 they average a year.

Bob61571

join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL
Reviews:
·MTCO Communicati..
·DIRECTV
·Frontier Communi..

1 edit

With a slow economy..

new capital expenditures are always a way to cut a company's budget.

Everyone is hunkering down. Even upscale current/potential FiOS customers.

Verizon waiting on cheaper technological advances in future, before more aggressive buildouts?


buzz_4_20

join:2003-09-20
Limestone, ME

But....

If i don't have access to it how can I be persuaded into buying it?


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

3 edits

Verizon going to FTTN-like those they deride in commercials

You have to love it. Verizon may end up deploying FTTN in many areas like their hated cable competitors. I guess they will have to stop airing all those commercials bragging about how Fios(FTTH) is way better than what cable offers after they start offering the same service.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
said by FFH5:

You have to love it. Verizon may end up deploying FTTN in many areas like their hated cable competitors. I guess they will have to stop airing all those commercials bragging about how Fios(FTTH) is way better than what cable offers after they start offering the same service.
Where was FTTN mentioned?


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 edit
said by aaronwt:

said by FFH5:

You have to love it. Verizon may end up deploying FTTN in many areas like their hated cable competitors. I guess they will have to stop airing all those commercials bragging about how Fios(FTTH) is way better than what cable offers after they start offering the same service.
Where was FTTN mentioned?
I mentioned it. It is the logical interim step. It is easy and much less costly to run FTTN deployments for now. And then build out FTTH later when capital dollars are once again available. And they can continue to roll out TV to FTTN deployments - just like AT&T.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page



ajc18
aka IGnatius T Foobar

join:2000-05-06
Mount Kisco, NY

Gotta love those jealous cable companies and their customers

FiOS is the best thing that ever happened to the last mile. It's an insanely great service. I'm convinced that all of the naysayers are either shills working for the cable company, or cable customers who are irate that FiOS isn't available in their area.

Seriously, give them some time. They're rebuilding their entire plant. That doesn't happen overnight, people. At the end of the day, they are in business to make money, not to cater to your whims. Verizon will eventually save money because the fiber plant is cheaper to maintain than the copper plant, but the transition is going to require a lot of time and a lot of money.

I fully expect Verizon to pick up the deployment pace again after The Obama Recession is over.
--
Art Cancro
UNCENSORED! BBS »uncensored.citadel.org


wdoa

join:2001-10-16
Spencer, MA

The Cherry picking becomes more targeted

Here in Massachusetts Verizon has suspended all further FIOS deployments and are rumored to be getting ready to sell off all non-FIOS markets in the state (which is probably about 70% of the state).


MrMaster
jetsetter
Premium
join:2000-12-16
St Thomas, VI

1 recommendation

reply to ajc18

Re: Gotta love those jealous cable companies and their customers

said by ajc18:

FiOS is the best thing that ever happened to the last mile. It's an insanely great service. I'm convinced that all of the naysayers are either shills working for the cable company, or cable customers who are irate that FiOS isn't available in their area.

Seriously, give them some time. They're rebuilding their entire plant. That doesn't happen overnight, people. At the end of the day, they are in business to make money, not to cater to your whims. Verizon will eventually save money because the fiber plant is cheaper to maintain than the copper plant, but the transition is going to require a lot of time and a lot of money.

I fully expect Verizon to pick up the deployment pace again after The Obama Recession is over.
Leave the bullshit last line out. Recession started last year and in some cases 2007, not this year. Recessions are natural progressions of the business cycle. Only their severity or lack there of is reflected by the choices of governments and businesses.

If Verizon has already wired 99% of their highly profitable areas then they don't have much more to go now do they.
--
One never notices what has been done; one can only see what remains to be done. -Marie Curie

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to lkviewguy

Re: Fios deployment slowing

said by lkviewguy:

Agreements are meant t be broken. Telcos have a looooooong history of not living up to their end of agreements. I serious doubt the city of NY will be entirely wired by 2014 just because they said so.
The density of NYC makes it a no brainer. I believe there are fines involved if they don't hold the commitment.

I would be more worried about the franchise agreements that say 20 or 40 households per mile Verizon must wire with FIOS.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to FFH5

Re: Verizon going to FTTN-like those they deride in commercials

said by FFH5:

I mentioned it. It is the logical interim step. It is easy and much less costly to run FTTN deployments for now. And then build out FTTH later when capital dollars are once again available. And they can continue to roll out TV to FTTN deployments - just like AT&T.
The depreciation on the FTTN DSLAMs would make it impossible to upgrade them to FTTH for atleast a decade. FTTN isn't financially worth it in the "performance and features/price" figure. Residential FTTN install, I would guess its 50-100% of a FTTH install. I'll guess the passing per house for FTTN is only 1/4 of FTTH passing per house.

Also the saturation marketing Verizon does wouldn't work with FTTN looking at Uverse. Many homes are too far from the VRAD down the tree of copper trunk lines. Many trees are too small to place a VRAD on (1 cross connection serving a 1 block long aerial trunk, 30 families I guess, 1 end of the block is an underground mega-conduit feed serving the whole quadrant of the city going back to the CO). And cable can/will/has easily performance beaten FTTN/Uverse with DOCSIS 3. If cable beats telco TV and next gen telco internet on performance, telco TV can only compete on price, WHICH IS NOT WHAT VERIZON EVER DOES. Verizon does not compete on price against cable cos. Putting in telco TV for diehard cable co haters is foolish, they are too small in numbers, and they are already probably on satellite (time for telco to buy DN or D* lol).


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:44
reply to patcat88

Re: Fios deployment slowing

The density of NYC makes it a no brainer. I believe there are fines involved if they don't hold the commitment.
The agreements are drawn up so that if Verizon doesn't see certain take rates, they can essentially drag out the deadline indefinitely. The fine penalties for missing these deadlines also erode over time, so by 2013 if Verizon doesn't want to wire -- say a big chunk of the Bronx, they have plenty of options.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

FIOS funding

How is FIOS being funded? Is Verizon taking dividends? deferring other capital upgrades? playing with depreciation? taking out loans/debt? Using cash from FP and Hawaii Telecom and Idearc spin offs?

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to Karl Bode

Re: Fios deployment slowing

said by Karl Bode:

The agreements are drawn up so that if Verizon doesn't see certain take rates, they can essentially drag out the deadline indefinitely. The fine penalties for missing these deadlines also erode over time, so by 2013 if Verizon doesn't want to wire -- say a big chunk of the Bronx, they have plenty of options.
The only copy of the FIOS NYC franchise agreement online that I know of, and it was preliminary.

»breitbart.wordpress.com/2008/05/ ··· omorrow/


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:44
reply to wdoa

Re: The Cherry picking becomes more targeted

Do you have evidence of this suspension?

I've heard this as well, but Verizon's eager to stop Mass. from charging property taxes, so they often threaten to stop deployment if they don't get what they want from lawmakers.

I can't tell if union workers are just catching wind of this bluffing, or there really has been an expansion halt.


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

1 edit
reply to ajc18

Re: Gotta love those jealous cable companies and their customers

Agreed about Obama

We need more of what Bush gave us economically. His 8 years saw our economy sour upwards

fischershaw

join:2005-04-30
Woodinville, WA
reply to ajc18
I spoke with a Verizon employee a week ago about FIOS deployment in Washington State. It has been stopped for the most part. There are a few installations being completed, but nothing new. The claim is that they are waiting for the sale of this market.

tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·ooma
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

tunnel vision

this is of no surprise.. the true advocates of FTTP/FIOS are all but GONE from the company. sales have been mixed at best and the wireless division has been carrying the company for 5 of the last 6 years (according to internal numbers). while VZ ponders what to do, they layoff workers, circle the wagons, and... GULP, COMPETE ON BOTTOM LINE PRICING (more often where competition lives than not)!

i'm not concerned about Cali, but watch very carefully what happens in NY and PA.. this will tell the story of whether VZ feels it bit off more than it can chew with FIOS in terms of expenditures vs ROI. while I'm not one to spin this negatively, there are going to be tea leaf readers out there who will say that Verizon is having trouble acquiring subscribers for FIOS products, particularly FIOS-TV. This shift may mean Verizon must be taking a bath in ROI of triple play and or phone/broadband dual play subscribers. The FIOS voice-aka freedom package doesn't compare well to cable-voip (aka digital voice with lots of calling features included vs 3-4 for vz not to mention damaging taxes/fees). So, what to do?
Honestly, there are no good answers except to say, HONOR & MAXIMIZE it's current commitments... and key to this will be the northeast.. NY, NJ, PA (as well as very dense deployed regions in its footprint). IMO, their current campaign isn't convincing.. maybe for fast food, but not FIOS. FIOS needs to market head-to-head and spell out exactly why the FIOS products are better (and if they're not-- be courageous enough to CHANGE THEM!) than the competition and prove it.. and they can only do that on certain aspects, until it's a complete package, customers will be missing. FIOS is just getting around to having it's local news channels startup in each franchise zone.. what, 6 years after initial deployment? As I've repeated time and again.. if this company keeps moving too slow to do the things they're supposed to do.. they begin to suffer from MCI-Worldcom disease/curse.


wdoa

join:2001-10-16
Spencer, MA
reply to Karl Bode

Re: The Cherry picking becomes more targeted

Every bit of evidence I see is that they are finishing up in the towns that they started, but are not going into any more communities. I talked about this with one of the lineworkers and he confirmed that there would be no further FIOS deployments in Mass. He did say they transferred some workers down to Rhode Island, but concurred that it's a real possibility that Verizon will dump much of Massachusetts.

rossies

join:2007-08-06
Tarpon Springs, FL

Slowed in FL

They dug up all the lawns in my Tampa area neighborhood in Oct 08, put in fiber and a big green box in my yard, and haven't lit it up since. That is what I call sloooooooow.


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
Now that is what I call a tease


Mattxdc

@icfconsulting.com

Verizon's Culture

Verizon, by institutional culture, is a very cautious, conservative company. The deployments have been very slow and far too deliberative. Its as though they don't even believe in what they're doing anymore (connecting the world, bringing in the next generation, blah blah).

On the other hand, if they've exhausted their initial $23 billion capital expenditure for the network rollout, it makes sense that they'd have to slow down. Verizon's revenues aren't an unlimited ATM for the FIOS people to draw from. It’s just as likely that they want to start MAKING MONEY off of these areas where they’ve laid down the fiber. Then, when they start to recoup some of their investment they can begin diverting this cash flow into further expansions with more confidence. Let’s be honest. We all know that these guys face HUGE up-front costs. The money has to come from somewhere, and for crying out loud, they just spent $23 billion! The recession only increases all the factors that would make them want to wait. This seems much more like a strategic pause, a chance to breathe a little, build up some more capital, and evaluate how the current roll-out is doing, before another flurry of activity (probably once the recession ends.)


ScrewVerizon

@optonline.net

-1 recommendation

It's a me too product...

and the novelty is fading. Get over it

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
reply to FFH5

Re: Verizon going to FTTN-like those they deride in commercials

That wouldn't maintain the current quality of their product.
It would be funny if they did that, though!


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:44

1 recommendation

reply to ScrewVerizon

Re: It's a me too product...

The first major U.S. incumbent operator to offer fiber to the home is a "me too" product?

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
reply to MrMaster

Re: Gotta love those jealous cable companies and their customers

I agree about the bullshit last line. It wasn't needed.

Verizon hasn't already wired 99% of their highly profitable areas. They still have Washington, D.C. and many other communities to go.