  RobIn Deo speramus, God Bless the USAPremium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:2 | Other options.. This is why Americans need other, reliable, options for broadband service in their area. | |
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 | | | Re: Other options.. That is so true.And we will need to do everything we can to stop assholes like slime warner who unfortunately i have to use in portland maine.
i wish we could make our own network here in portland and then we could force these greedbag assholes out.
consumption billing will kill the internet no help it. | |
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| | | | Re: Other options.. said by gorehound:i wish we could make our own network here in portland and then we could force these greedbag assholes out. consumption billing will kill the internet no help it. You can. But you have to gather others of similar belief and put the work and money in to it to make it happen. But we all know there are few willing to do that in America today.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
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| | |  nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | Re: Other options.. said by fAcEtIOUs:said by gorehound:i wish we could make our own network here in portland and then we could force these greedbag assholes out. consumption billing will kill the internet no help it. You can. But you have to gather others of similar belief and put the work and money in to it to make it happen. But we all know there are few willing to do that in America today. And why are few willing to try? It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that the incumbents will do everything in their power to delay, derail and destroy such a efforts. I mean, the incumbents have never attempted to litigate competition out of existence, have they?
Christ. Can you stop, for just one freaking minute, being such a mouthpiece?
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
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| | | |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Other options.. I'm reluctantly forced to agree. It should be obvious to all that attempting to start-up a broadband ISP to compete with the incumbent is a venture doomed to fail. Not because people don't want your services or because you can't provide customer support; but because you'll have so many legal and regulatory roadblocks placed in front of you that you simply won't be able to outlast their legal efforts to crush you. Everything from blocking deployment and dragging feet on network buildout issues (such as permission to attach to poles, then payment for said rights, etc) to denial of right-of-ways and easements, holding up of permits and inspections; blocking from fair access to content at reasonable prices and the like. In the end your limited capital would expire.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | | | | Re: Other options.. said by KrK:I'm reluctantly forced to agree. It should be obvious to all that attempting to start-up a broadband ISP to compete with the incumbent is a venture doomed to fail. Not because people don't want your services or because you can't provide customer support; but because you'll have so many legal and regulatory roadblocks placed in front of you that you simply won't be able to outlast their legal efforts to crush you. Everything from blocking deployment and dragging feet on network buildout issues (such as permission to attach to poles, then payment for said rights, etc) to denial of right-of-ways and easements, holding up of permits and inspections; blocking from fair access to content at reasonable prices and the like. In the end your limited capital would expire. Wisps dont have those problems.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
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| | | | | | Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Other options.. said by fAcEtIOUs:Wisps dont have those problems. 1) I'm quite certain the incumbents don't see WISPs as real competition; most WISPs are trying to provide coverage in areas the incumbents won't touch
2) wireless broadband is currently not a substitute (or only a very poor one) for wired broadband and it's possible it never will be
3) WISPs, by their very nature, are likely to be covering only a small geographical area
as a result of 1, 2 and 3, incumbents do not see WISPs as presenting any danger to their revenue stream now or at any time in the future. Therefore, they don't care and don't sue. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Other options.. wisps are leaps and bounds slower than normal connections. By the time LTE comes around it may be different but at current situations, it's not the same level of competitiveness.
6MB downstream on a wisp maximum doesn't compare to 22mb downstream on comcast - those are different offerings. | |
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| | | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| said by fAcEtIOUs:Wisps dont have those problems. Now that is true. It's "easier" to start a WISP... but they have their own unique problems.
a) Capacity. Unlike wired broadband, they cannot just "Add more capacity" once their spectrum approaches saturation.
b) Permits and licensing (For the airwaves.)
c) Price of backhaul. In most areas the incumbents (their competition) get to control their costs of purchasing bandwidth to support their network. Easy to squeeze them here.
I'd say a WISP is a good business to try in a market where broadband options don't exist, but going up against incumbents in a populated area would be rough-- they can out offer you.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | | |  rawgerzThe hell was that?Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA | They can't compete with $20 DSL. I thought of doing this myself since it would have been our only choice a couple years ago, but after looking at the operating costs ($1 per foot lease space on cell tower, need at least 300Ft, T1's $1100 month 2yr contract, and equipment costs of $100-200 per sub) it just is not feasible.
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You can't make all the people happy all of the time. But it should be common sense to shoot for the majority. | |
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| | | | | |  maartenaElmoPremium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:1
·AT&T U-Verse
 ·DIRECTV
| said by fAcEtIOUs:Wisps dont have those problems. No but they have other problems. For now, they are relatively limited to the amount of bandwidth they can deliver. This will change, but at this moment you won't get much more then 1 Mbps or so.
Secondly they require expensive equipment to be attached to your house, and in many cases you need to raise the antenna to get reception. Those living in an apartment building, or those with a 3-story building right next door may not even get any service.
Third, many houses are in "dead zones", where there is lot of interference from other radio signals. They really don't have a map of where it does and doesn't work, but from experience and having a company come in and install wireless as a bridge-gap solution for about 6 months, I know it is all but simple to install wireless. But that was 5 years back.
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"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" | |
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| | | | | | | | That's not the "best" technology to use either. Fiber is king. It's the technology for the future because it does not have interference issues that wireless has and because it can deliver more data in the same amount of time. Wisps and other wireless technologies have their uses, but fiber is the way to go, imho. So, the little guy has no chance. | |
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| | | |  SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA | said by nixen:Christ. Can you stop, for just one freaking minute, being such a mouthpiece? Nicely stated! | |
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| | | | | | You said it all it in a nutshell. Some local governments can provide net access (fiber) cheaply but the big corps who have no intention of doing it because it isn't profitable for them want to stifle such "competition". | |
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| | | | | There are TONS of people will to put the work into this type of endeavor. There are, however, few with the $$ to contribute. It's part of the shrinking middle class. We're beyond the American Dream except for the chosen few in this country. | |
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| Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| said by Rob:This is why Americans need other, reliable, options for broadband service in their area. you mean that thing called "competition".
sorry, not gonna happen. the only significant thing that can be done in the near term is open all last mile connections to line sharing - cable, fiber and copper. unfortunately, I don't see this even happening in my lifetime, if ever. all we're going to get is tinkering around the edges and even that will get reversed as soon a republican administration takes over again.
get used to it, nothing is going to change for years. | |
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| | | said by Rob:This is why Americans need other, reliable, options for broadband service in their area. I honestly think Comcast has "got it", at least their cap was reasonable and no has gone over the cap as far we know. | |
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 spewakR.I.P DadkinsPremium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1
 ·Clear Wireless
| Why? What that douchey Britt is essentially saying is: "I'm the overpaid, under-educated CEO, how come nobody is buying my retarded-ass logic?" What a HUMP! 
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The weekend is here, grab a can of beer! | |
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 n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
 ·Optimum Online
| Not Too Dumb The problem as you read this is that many companies, not just ISP's, take the approach that their customers are extremely dumb and wouldn't no a scam if they saw it. Luckily people are proving them wrong yet the companies continue to believe it is due to customer being too dumb, just too dumb to recognize what is supposed to be good for them. Cellphone users are finally waking up along with cable/phone TV customers as the never ending price increases come along again.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1 |  Time Warner Cable CEO Still Dreams Of Metered Future
 I guess parasite-o extreme-o wants to stick their outrageous debt load up their customers arse. Their new motto should be: GIVING YOU LESS FOR MORE! | |
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 DarkLogixPremium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
1 edit | analogy Health Care reform is to government what Usage based billing is to Time Warner
or maybe better
Health Care reform is to US Citizen what Usage based billing is to Time Warner Customer | |
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 Anonymous_AnonymousPremium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
1 edit | who cares if they make a enough money 100% fiber is the furture
cable Coaxial Copper is so 1800 tech  | |
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| | | Re: who cares if they make a enough money “CEO Still Dreams Of Metered Future” When this guy dream comes true, you can guarantee I will take my business elsewhere, and not just my roadrunner service, my TV and phone as well. I am lucky and do have more than one option for all of the above services. | |
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| | Anonymous_AnonymousPremium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2 Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
·Comcast
 ·Time Warner VOIP
| Re: who cares if they make a enough money said by Monolith:“CEO Still Dreams Of Metered Future” When this guy dream comes true, you can guarantee I will take my business elsewhere, and not just my roadrunner service, my TV and phone as well. I am lucky and do have more than one option for all of the above services. other Options in my rural area such as ATT 16/1.5 U verse | |
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| | |  AMDUSERPremium
join:2003-05-28
Earth
kudos:1
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: who cares if they make a enough money Other options in my metro area include 6 Meg DSL and Dish Network /Direct Tv.
[Uverse would be listed, except that it is not available to me. However, if I moved literally across the street I could get it.]
AT&T is slowly building out U-Verse in Milwaukee,WI.. one of the up sides is that before they started only 768k DSL was available at my location, now 6 Meg is. | |
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 WyckedKnightWe the corporations by the corporations
join:2004-07-12
Van Nuys, CA | Time Warner Cable CEO Still Dreams Of Metered Future This Assclown needs to wake up. We we should do to help him wake up is to cancel our internet to let him see the loss of cash that he loves so much. in 2 years he'll being crying in court filing for bankruptcy, Wishing he didn't start up metered billing. | |
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| |  Metered billing coming - for telcos & cable; reason video
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
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| | | Re: Metered billing coming - for telcos & cable; reason video I agree.
Metered billing will happen. It is the only fair thing to do, not that the telcos necessarily care about fairness, but I would willingly pay extra for fairness.
Complaining can sometimes be okay, but voting with your wallet is better. If you don't like a policy, then pay for something else. Go back to dial-up.
One way to solve stupid metered billing is to use a network layer protocol or extension to embed the pricing informationin the packet, and let the consumer enter his willingness to pay for each packet. Each packet is priority forwarded by the amount the consumer is paying for the packet.
There needs to be an RFC for this type of protocol. Once a standard is laid, the telcos will more easily adopt it. Of course the move to IPv6 is slow going, so any implementation of such a protocol probably wouldn't happen for 20 years. | |
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| |  BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Re: Metered billing coming - for telcos & cable; reason video said by anderboy:I agree. Metered billing will happen. It is the only fair thing to do, not that the telcos necessarily care about fairness, but I would willingly pay extra for fairness. There is NOTHING fair abut their plans or ANY ISPs plans for "metered" billing.
You are asusming that the the ISPs will lower the prices for those who currently use less bandwidth and then charge those that use the most more. But that's not their plan. Thier plan is to continue to charge low users the current price and increase prices on everyone else. | |
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| | | | | Re: Metered billing coming - for telcos & cable; reason video I did not assume. I said I would willingly pay extra for fairness. If that means raising the prices on both me AND the torrent freaks, so be it.
Metered billing by definition is fair. You pay for what you use, never mind the ludicrous price per gigabyte.
Imagine a line of people waiting to be processed, each person takes around 5 minutes. Anybody can cut in line and the only thing you can do to prevent being taken advantage of is to cut in line also. Soon there is no queue, but there is a lot of fighting and almost no processing being done.
Now the proprietors of said service implement some authentication/enforcement to prevent/penalize cutters. Such an implementation requires some overhead time and cost in favor of fairness.
I'm the type of person who would willingly wait in line for 2 extra minutes if that somehow guaranteed that some asshat would not be able to cut in line and cost me 5 minutes. | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
| | | | said by anderboy:One way to solve stupid metered billing is to use a network layer protocol or extension to embed the pricing informationin the packet, and let the consumer enter his willingness to pay for each packet. Each packet is priority forwarded by the amount the consumer is paying for the packet. There needs to be an RFC for this type of protocol. Once a standard is laid, the telcos will more easily adopt it. Of course the move to IPv6 is slow going, so any implementation of such a protocol probably wouldn't happen for 20 years. Uhhh, no. The best method of billing doesn't require a new protocol or screwing around with existing protocols. Google the term "95th percentile billing". While I'm not a fan of forcing consumers to ration their use through usage based billing, 95th percentile billing is the fairest method of billing for usage and is already well established in the industry. The only downside is that the majority of people would be intimidated by its perceived complexity.
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Kilroy was here | |
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See 26 replies to this post |
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| | | | Wow, that sounds like a very cumbersome way to access whatever information a consumer wants to use. I don't think the masses would go for that. When it's a hassle to use, you don't get mass adoption. I personally think that metered billing will be tried and then abandoned. The future is for data to be dirt cheap and a commodity. It's going to be ugly though... 8-) | |
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| | | | | Re: Metered billing coming - for telcos & cable; reason video I only mentioned the network layer functionality. The consumer doesn't have to think about the priority of each packet because there would be optimization tools to handle that for different profiles (video, audio, gaming, etc).
A simple method may be to have a knob for each application that you turn up until you get acceptable service (video not smooth? turn up the knob; too expensive for your taste? turn down the knob). The real-time price would be displayed also.
At the simplest, the user only has to do nothing and every packet will be treated with best effort service level. | |
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| | | What about ATT and I don't think Direct tv will like ATT messing there VOD systems as well the this will get the way of the direct tv / att deals. | |
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| | | The low end of the usage based consumption better be lower than the current model, otherwise consumers will see it for what it truly is, a money grab. This isn't about "fair, it's only about getting more money out of us that we don't really have. | |
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| | TW Cable As usual, these Time Warner Idiots don't have a clue. The focus has been on taking away phone customers from the phone companies.
This uses more of the available bandwidth from the internet customers. Now they are pushing streaming digital TV to the base customers. Again, less cost for them, but more bandwidth consumed, from their Docsis 1.1 system.
None of the extra profits are being put towards upgrading to Docsis 3.0.
Then they raise your cable bill a little, twice, every year. By doing it just a little at a time, they hope you don't notice the higher price, while they reduce the channels available to you, unless you count the 50 home shopping channels or the Spanish speaking channels.
Then they give yearly bonuses to the eggheads that think they are doing a good job.
Their ONLY desire is to make the 27% profit every year.
Period! | |
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 PashuneCaps stifle innovationPremium
join:2006-04-14
Gautier, MS | Gah. I'm still ecstatic as ever that these pricks don't serve my area.
My small ISP technically does have caps but they're very, very easy to work around if you're know what you're doing.
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ISP: CableOne 5 mbit/500 kbit | |
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See 12 replies to this post |
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Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| nicked and dimed? no thank you. Well, some environmental squirrels have been busy stumping for NY state's general fund--ONE DAMN NICKEL AT A TIME!
»www.nypirg.org/enviro/bottlebill/
Try that with broadband, and good luck selling it! You'll have wasted billions for nothing. You couldn't even give it away after trying that kind of stunt, so go ahead and piss off consumers again! | |
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|  ReformCRTCSupport Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada | Re: nicked and dimed? no thank you. That's awesome! Containers of all types should have a bounty on them. Beats seeing them on the side of the road. | |
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 fireflierCoffee. . .Need CoffeePremium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo |  Still thinks his version of metered billing is inevitable...
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| | Certainly hope for no metered billing I certainly hope metered billing doesn't come to pass. Especially not the Time Warner Cable version where you had a 40GB monthly cap (at most) and paid for each GB over you went.
We've recently started watching Netflix movies on our Roku box. Since they use our Internet connection, they would count towards our cap. I did some searching and found that Netflix movies tend to use about 2200Kbps. This means a 40GB cap would equal (with no other web surfing, mind you) about 42 hours of Netflix time or less than 90 minutes per day.
We could do double this easily as our kids love watching shows on Roku. If Time Warner had their way, we'd wind up paying much, much more per month for Internet access. (FIOS isn't available where I live so my only other option would be to switch to a slower Verizon DSL.)
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-Jason Levine
Support a children's charity. Buy a calendar and/or a photo book. Shooting For A Cause | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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| | Time Warner Cable CEO Still Dreams Of Metered Future He can keep dreaming all he wants... until the cows come home!!! | |
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| | | Re: Time Warner Cable CEO Still Dreams Of Metered Future All I can say is community fiber a lot of places have pulled this off | |
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maartenaElmoPremium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:1 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·DIRECTV
| I would rather get SLOWER internet than METERED internet. There are a few "indie" DSL providers here such as DSLExtreme. Even though my current connection is 15 Mbps down and 2 Mbps up....
I would rather get internet that is SLOWER than intetnet that is METERED.
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"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" | |
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| | dreams when the CEO sees red in the bottom line about metered. | |
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| | I had a dream as well.... I still dream that Time Warner Cable CEO Glenn Britt make a complete fool of himself and his terrible company to the point that Time Warner is broken up and sold to the highest bidder.
But not all our dreams can come true now can they Glenn?
How about trying to not make public premonitions that only anger customers OK Glenn? I can call you Glenn right?
-Ax | |
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elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·RoadRunner Cable
| Bring it on! Time Warner's initial proposal for metered billing was incredibly fair, but no one bothered to listen to the details.
Just as we've seen with the cellphone industry, as competition matured, buckets have grown as per-minute rates have dropped. The same has happened for broadband. My $60 256K DSL circuit is now $10 for 1M in less than 10 years' time, and that replaced $60 of 28.8K dialup access. Cable internet has followed a similar price:performance track.
Metered billing will only encourage someone else to offer "unlimited" at a more attractive rate. | |
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| | hrm in canada for 512K you pay 25$ + taxes
nice to see you get a deal | |
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Wishful thinking maybe, but certainly not out of the realm of possibilities.
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