dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
view:
topics flat nest 
Comments on news posted 2009-12-02 12:09:24: The cable industry this week is busy patting itself on the back for a new initiative they've dubbed "Adoption Plus. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next

NOVA_Guy
ObamaCare Kills Americans
Premium Member
join:2002-03-05

1 recommendation

NOVA_Guy

Premium Member

Why?

What's wrong with just lowering the prices for everybody to something reasonable? $60/month for high speed internet is highway robbery, yet it's what Comcast forces its subscribers to pay.

Oh, and just in case the government hasn't yet figured it out... if a family can't afford to even get a DSL line or something in their house, how are they going to afford a computer?

This looks like yet another waste of money to me which is unfortunately likely to be funded by my tax dollars, thus allowing the lazy and stupid to reach even further into my wallet and enjoy higher lifestyles from my labor without contributing a damn thing in return.
westdc
join:2009-01-25
Amissville, VA

westdc

Member

How about Giving every (family) or just the breeders, free high speed internet & computers and then close all the public schools and force the children to learn on line.

Release all the Teachers (except for those nedded for teching a class online)

The money saved from transportation, heating and cooling.

The offer of lower cost internet to the poor folks is just a way of the cable and telco's to feel good about doing something !they are not going to do anyway.
tired_runner
Premium Member
join:2000-08-25
CT
·Frontier FiberOp..

3 recommendations

tired_runner

Premium Member

I got it wrong all these years

I should have been on Section 8 and welfare. As a dumbass worker bee for the past 11 years, I'm witnessing my take-home purchasing power dwindle while the weak links of society get a place to live, usually an apartment in a brand new private home registered with Section 8 or brand new HUD buildings that keep propping up in the city, and they even get "relocation" money too for furniture, etc etc.

Some people are just fucking laaaaaaaaaazyyyyyyyyyy.. There should be career loser camp somewhere in Wards Island. That should motivate any asshole in the system to get a trade certificate or associate degree and earn a keep.

NOVA_Guy
ObamaCare Kills Americans
Premium Member
join:2002-03-05

2 recommendations

NOVA_Guy

Premium Member

Personally I like the idea from a while ago about moving all the welfare folks to some of the military bases we've closed. The housing, food, medical, school, etc. facilities are all there already so that should cut down the cost to taxpayers.

Each of the residents could be assigned a job on base to take care of themselves and others-- landscaping, food service, education, janitorial, machine shop, auto mechanic, etc. This would help them learn skills that they could use to find jobs in the coming years, while allowing them to help take responsibility for taking care of themselves. Who knows-- the base might even be able to become self-sufficient...

Those who do not want to make welfare a lifestyle would quickly learn skills and get back on their feet while being taken care of in a safe environment. Those who prefer otherwise can stay there as well, at reduced expense to taxpayers. This sounds like an all around win-win situation to me.

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine to westdc

Member

to westdc

Re: Why?

The teachers union would never let that fly.

Besides, in today's economy, who's going to stay home to homeschool the kids?

You also seem to forget that school provides much more than just book smarts. There is an important social component of development that we all get from going to school with other people.

workfare
@optonline.net

workfare to tired_runner

Anon

to tired_runner

Re: I got it wrong all these years

said by tired_runner:

I should have been on Section 8 and welfare. As a dumbass worker bee for the past 11 years, I'm witnessing my take-home purchasing power dwindle while the weak links of society get a place to live, usually an apartment in a brand new private home registered with Section 8 or brand new HUD buildings that keep propping up in the city, and they even get "relocation" money too for furniture, etc etc.

Some people are just fucking laaaaaaaaaazyyyyyyyyyy.. There should be career loser camp somewhere in Wards Island. That should motivate any asshole in the system to get a trade certificate or associate degree and earn a keep.
over 98% of the state run programs force "clients" to work, even if it is a BULLSHIT JOB--- UNLESS they can prove some kind of disability.. then their status changes. you'll know this once you lose your job (involuntarily) then exhaust the generous portion of extended unemployment insurance and must rely on the system you seem to be ignorant about. the ONLY way it turns into welfare is if the state social workers are LAZY and can't find these people b/s jobs and/or training programs go get these people off workfare.

anywho, the cable industry doesn't need to do this to get good will from public opinion. they need to do what's right such as killing the 250gb cap idea, kill metered billing, expand deployments and infrastructure upgrades, and lower prices. there is no reason why millions should be spent on a program such as this when taxpayers already support library programs. the only reason I can think that cable wants to do this is so that they can promote future consumers of their services. right now the current consumer base is pretty much set in which telecom company they want to buy broadband, tv and phone service from and they are only loyal if they can afford to be.

jester121
Premium Member
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

jester121 to fifty nine

Premium Member

to fifty nine

Re: Why?

said by fifty nine:

Besides, in today's economy, who's going to stay home to homeschool the kids?
All the unemployed people?

StevenB
Premium Member
join:2000-10-27
New York, NY
·Charter

StevenB to tired_runner

Premium Member

to tired_runner

Re: I got it wrong all these years

said by tired_runner:

I should have been on Section 8 and welfare. As a dumbass worker bee for the past 11 years, I'm witnessing my take-home purchasing power dwindle while the weak links of society get a place to live, usually an apartment in a brand new private home registered with Section 8 or brand new HUD buildings that keep propping up in the city, and they even get "relocation" money too for furniture, etc etc.

Some people are just fucking laaaaaaaaaazyyyyyyyyyy.. There should be career loser camp somewhere in Wards Island. That should motivate any asshole in the system to get a trade certificate or associate degree and earn a keep.
So what about the people who are on disability, should they be packed up and shipped off as well? I guess in this day and age, Nazi Germany policies can be applied very well now.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9 to NOVA_Guy

Premium Member

to NOVA_Guy
If we have to have a welfare system for the lazy and inept (unfortunately I don't see our welfare society decreasing any time soon), I actually like this idea. Once sufficient skills have been taught, these communes could even be farmed out to surrounding areas to conduct menial labor. After all, if the lazy want Uncle Sam to take care of them, they should at least give a little back to society.

Corehhi
join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

Corehhi to jester121

Member

to jester121

Re: Why?

Free porn is probably doing a booming business.
Corehhi

Corehhi to NOVA_Guy

Member

to NOVA_Guy

Re: I got it wrong all these years

Communism doesn't work so the military commune idea will fail. The number of police you have to hire to keep them in the "fence" out weighs any benefit.

Oops just described all public housing.

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

1 recommendation

funchords

MVM

Good, Thanks, but this tames the symptom, not the sickness

[note: I consult with Free Press, but I haven't talked to anyone at Free Press about this story or program.]

Okay, real good on the target of who badly needs help: older children in middle and high school who can't do their homework or apply for scholarships due to the lack of online access. Not so great that it's only two years, given that they will need this help from seventh-through-twelfth grades.

But isn't the problem that broadband generally is priced too expensively, owing mostly to monopoly/duopoly cable and telephone providers having too little competition to tame prices naturally? Doesn't this band-aid just allow that problem to continue unsolved, hopefully with less regulatory pressure?
westdc
join:2009-01-25
Amissville, VA

westdc to StevenB

Member

to StevenB

Re: I got it wrong all these years

said by StevenB:

said by tired_runner:

So what about the people who are on disability, should they be packed up and shipped off as well? I guess in this day and age, Nazi Germany policies can be applied very well now.
I agree!!, That would be a start!
tired_runner
Premium Member
join:2000-08-25
CT
·Frontier FiberOp..

1 edit

tired_runner to StevenB

Premium Member

to StevenB
said by StevenB:

So what about the people who are on disability, should they be packed up and shipped off as well? I guess in this day and age, Nazi Germany policies can be applied very well now.
I said LAZY. The jerk off who would prefer living off their baby mama who's a career system recipient. The one who doesn't want to finish school, take up violent behavior as a "disability." Yes, in this day and age there are still plenty of those.

Obviously those with a disability should have their fair shake. Can't expect someone who can't produce involuntarily to rot out of existence. That would be nazi-like, and as much as many insensitive tax payers who are better off would like to see this happen, I'm glad our constituents still protect them.
tired_runner

tired_runner to Corehhi

Premium Member

to Corehhi
said by Corehhi:

Communism doesn't work so the military commune idea will fail. The number of police you have to hire to keep them in the "fence" out weighs any benefit.

Oops just described all public housing.
LMAO!
jus10
join:2009-08-04
Gainesville, VA

jus10

Member

Disgraceful at best

quote:
For one thing the program is simply a proposal, and it's not fully cooked yet. As it stands, the cable industry is promising to offer broadband to new families only for half price for two years,
I was going to ask why the heck the discounts went away when the kid got to high school but hey, there's not even a point to asking that question if its just codeword for a "two-year promo".
quote:
modem rentals for half price, free installation of the service, and free parental control and online security software.
Whoop-de-do. Free spyware. Awesome.
quote:
It also asks for $100 million in federal funding to create "digital media literacy programs" under the Adoption Plus "brand."
Ah good. $100 million in taxpayer money for "copyright brainwashing".
quote:
It also proposes to offer schools discounted hardware, if the NCTA can find hardware vendors to play along (none are signed on so far) and Uncle Sam ponies up a good chunk of the cash.
Dump your old outdated hardware on the poor today for a tax write-off and money from the government! Operators are standing by!

Deplorable.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

America needs an information superhighway.

The cable industries proposal is a red herring. How quickly we forget. Back in the good old days of the Dial-Up Internet there a terrible problem for ISP's. Competition! Anyone could lease a broadband connection to a peering point, Install a Radius Server, Modem Pool, Telephone Lines and sell internet access. The ISP that I was employed by had cartons full of obsolete modems from 14.4Kbps to 33.6Kbps. Why were they there. Competition. Customers would actually change ISP's because a competitor offered higher speeds and or lower prices. ISP's had to continually upgrade their equipment to keep up with competitors in order to stay in business.

When the Internet business began the average monthly fee for internet access cost about $25.00. Even before widespread deployment of Cable/DSL Broadband, prices for dial-up internet access dropped to about $15.00 per month for 56K download speed.

If the government can spend many billions of dollars to build the Interstate Highway System for Automobiles they can afford to spend a few billion to see that every home is wired with fiber for data. Content providers and ISP would use bandwidth on the public fiber network to carry their traffic for a fee just like the trucking industry uses roads and pays taxes for their use.

Unless there is the same level of competition for broadband service providers as there was in days of dial-up the consumer has no hope of fair pricing.

zoom314
join:2005-11-21
Yermo, CA

zoom314 to tired_runner

Member

to tired_runner

Re: I got it wrong all these years

said by tired_runner:
said by StevenB:

So what about the people who are on disability, should they be packed up and shipped off as well? I guess in this day and age, Nazi Germany policies can be applied very well now.
I said LAZY. The jerk off who would prefer living off their baby mama who's a career system recipient. The one who doesn't want to finish school, take up violent behavior as a "disability." Yes, in this day and age there are still plenty of those.

Obviously those with a disability should have their fair shake. Can't expect someone who can't produce involuntarily to rot out of existence. That would be nazi-like, and as much as many insensitive tax payers who are better off would like to see this happen, I'm glad our constituents still protect them.
Agreed, Those who are Disabled(visible or not), Blind or yes Seniors should get a fair shake and Yes I'm permanently Disabled and about to turn into a Senior either in 2010 or sometime later.

Of course with only $845 a month(Supplemental Security Income or SSI, SSI does not come from the Trust Fund) one has to be frugal, Yes I can make ends meet, But replace the car? Nope, Not enough income, Thanks to Congress.
chimera4
join:2009-06-09
Washington, DC

chimera4 to tired_runner

Member

to tired_runner
You forgot that a fair number of the homeless also suffer from mental disorders which in a fair number of cases count as disabilities.

NOVA_Guy
ObamaCare Kills Americans
Premium Member
join:2002-03-05

NOVA_Guy to funchords

Premium Member

to funchords

Re: Good, Thanks, but this tames the symptom, not the sickness

Ba-bing! I think we have a winner. Lower broadband prices for all and promote industry growth through encouraging competition, and everybody wins.

What's that saying-- something about a rising tide floating all boats, or something similar?
NOVA_Guy

NOVA_Guy to Corehhi

Premium Member

to Corehhi

Re: I got it wrong all these years

I'm not looking at it from a current public housing perspective. This is something different, something much better.

The current public housing situation just throws everybody in all together, without really having a defined plan, timeframe, or avenue to encourage self improvement or growth. This creates less hope of improving one's situation, encourages complacency, and gives power to the thought that one cannot control one's own destiny. People in that type of situation are robbed of hope, and in some cases no longer feel personal responsibility for their own actions or situation.

I'm proposing something different, something that presents those who want a better future with the opportunity to improve themselves. There would be jobs to do, for which they would be paid. There would be ways to learn skills, with a clearly defined path to get people started in the right direction. With some on welfare it won't matter. But there are likely others for whom it will matter-- people who will use this as a true safety net and use their second chance wisely.

Look at it this way: no matter what, a plan like this leaves us all better off. It likely reduces the overall costs associated with welfare and sustenance programs. And it provides a means for those recipients who are looking for help to better themselves to actually do so, thus reducing the overall welfare roles (thus in theory reducing overall welfare program costs).

My idea is based primarily upon the old adage that goes something like "Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he eats for a lifetime." I don't know if it would work, but I don't see how it could produce worse results than the program we have in place right now.

Do you have any better ideas, or suggestions about how this idea could be improved?
NOVA_Guy

NOVA_Guy to openbox9

Premium Member

to openbox9
I'd like to know what you mean by "menial labor", as I envision some of the folks living on these bases as learning career skills of some sort-- be it auto mechanics, becoming a truck driver, becoming a chef/cook, etc.

Sure, some of them will do less skilled (more menial?) jobs, such as janitorial services and the like... but I see my idea as also providing an opportunity to those who truly want to become something more but just need a second chance.

On its face, your statement about them being farmed out to do more menial jobs sounds more like treating these folks like poor serfs who should be forced to do their masters' bidding. Surely I'm reading too much in to that comment?
NOVA_Guy

NOVA_Guy to Mr Matt

Premium Member

to Mr Matt

Re: America needs an information superhighway.

This idea sounds enticing. But I'm tempted to argue against public funding to wire every home with fiber and then allow ISPs to charge customers any significant amount of money.

If the infrastructure is built with public funds, and I'm paying the ISP for access, doesn't that mean that I'm really paying for the same thing twice? Or would you see the ISP then as something different-- an entity that provides free access through public-built pipes, charging only for value-added services like access to video/newsgroups/telephony/etc.?

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 recommendation

FFH5 to tired_runner

Premium Member

to tired_runner

Re: I got it wrong all these years

he says. "They are merely bringing NCTA's members a 60% profit margin per participating home versus an 80% profit margin," argues Turner.
Free Press' Research Director Derek Turner is full of it when he claims that cable companies are making 80% profit margins. It is the usual rantings of anti-corporate idiots like this that make these people lose all credibility with anyone that knows anything about or follows financial news. But I am sure the welfare society lovers are eating it up.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9 to NOVA_Guy

Premium Member

to NOVA_Guy
Yes, you're reading too much into my comment. "Menial" wasn't the best word to use. I should have used "skilled". My apologies.

skuv
@rr.com

skuv to tired_runner

Anon

to tired_runner
said by tired_runner:

I should have been on Section 8 and welfare. As a dumbass worker bee for the past 11 years, I'm witnessing my take-home purchasing power dwindle while the weak links of society get a place to live, usually an apartment in a brand new private home registered with Section 8 or brand new HUD buildings that keep propping up in the city, and they even get "relocation" money too for furniture, etc etc.

Some people are just fucking laaaaaaaaaazyyyyyyyyyy.. There should be career loser camp somewhere in Wards Island. That should motivate any asshole in the system to get a trade certificate or associate degree and earn a keep.
Man, it really annoys me when people say things such as this. "I'm so stupid for working all these years! I should go on welfare, etc etc etc."

Yeah, why don't you try that? Why don't you become so poor that you need to be on welfare and get cheaper housing and other help. I'm sure you would be so comfortable living that way.

Do you actually think the majority of people that are on these programs are HAPPY?

You are making it seem as if the minority that games the system, by being lazy plus being a criminal making money illegally on the side, is somehow the majority and all of them just love living this way.

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

1 edit

funchords to FFH5

MVM

to FFH5
said by FFH5:
he says. "They are merely bringing NCTA's members a 60% profit margin per participating home versus an 80% profit margin," argues Turner.
Free Press' Research Director Derek Turner is full of it when he claims that cable companies are making 80% profit margins. It is the usual rantings of anti-corporate idiots like this that make these people lose all credibility with anyone that knows anything about or follows financial news.
Well, argue with those who write financial news:
"Comcast, for instance, has a profit margin of 55% in video but 70% in phone and 80% for broadband, estimates Bernsteins Mr. Moffett." -- »blog.ockhamresearch.com/ ··· to-come/
(added later in edit) --
"A big cable operator, like Comcast, gets 55 cents of contribution toward overhead and profit from each $1 of revenue from television services. But it gets 70 cents from voice communications and 80 percent from Internet access." -- »blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=11870
tired_runner
Premium Member
join:2000-08-25
CT
·Frontier FiberOp..

tired_runner to skuv

Premium Member

to skuv
These people don't ever worry about making rent, utilities, not pissing off a boss, etc etc. Of course the lifestyle surrounding their circumstance is very different from someone who works. Doesn't change the fact that they will still have a roof over their heads no matter what.

Derek Turner
@myvzw.com

Derek Turner to FFH5

Anon

to FFH5
MR. JunkMail,

While I don't normally comment on blogs, I felt I could help inform this debate by citing my sources for you.

This margin figure is actually well known and confirmed many places, and in fact, it has been linked in these forums numerous times.

For example, the Wall Street Journal: »blog.ockhamresearch.com/ ··· to-come/

You note that the WSJ is considered to be a financial news outlet.

And this is verified by the FCC's own broadband task force. See slide #44 here:

»hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_ ··· 42A1.pdf

Which explains an ISPs' total (capex + opex + transit) cost in an urban area are $91 per customer per year. Assuming cable ARPU for modem service of $40 per month, that is an 81% profit margin.

I don't appreciate being called an "anti-corporate idiot", as I think those who know me, even those in the ISP industry would disagree with that point. But that's not really the issue. The real issue is the supra-competitive profits earned by cable ISPs and the loss in consumer surplus this lack of competition causes.

I do find your comments enlightening, and I am glad I had the opportunity to help inform you on this one specific point.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

2 edits

FFH5

Premium Member

said by Derek Turner :

For example, the Wall Street Journal: »blog.ockhamresearch.com/ ··· to-come/
Comcast, for instance, has a profit margin of 55% in video but 70% in phone and 80% for broadband, estimates Bernstein’s Mr. Moffett.
Again, these numbers are marginal operational costs and I still dispute they are accurate for even that calculation.
Those numbers ignore the debt that is still on the books and the interest charges to pay off that debt. And it ignores all the support and overhead costs of running a business.

The real profit margin for the last full year result(2008) is 7.4%. Of course I count all the costs and not just unencumbered marginal operating costs.
»www.cmcsk.com/common/dow ··· =1166691
said by Derek Turner :
And this is verified by the FCC's own broadband task force. See slide #44 here:

»hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_ ··· 42A1.pdf

Which explains an ISPs' total (capex + opex + transit) cost in an urban area are $91 per customer per year. Assuming cable ARPU for modem service of $40 per month, that is an 81% profit margin.
Does not include costs already incurred (e.g., spectrum, prior plant build-out).
Let's take these a point at a time:
[A] $91 number does not reflect actual costs:
$91 was for URBAN areas only. Last I looked cable companies didn't just serve URBAN areas. That slide shows the cost is tremendously higher for rural access.

Well the cable companies are still paying for those already incurred costs thru the interest and principal on all the bonds that underwrote that construction.
------------------------

So to summarize: Ignoring all the costs is a red herring that tries to make Comcast and other cable companies look like robber barons, when the profit they make is not even covering their real cost of capital. Why do you think their stock price is so low? Because what they earn in income is barely enough to keep investors from taking their money and going elsewhere for better returns.
page: 1 · 2 · next