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Comments on news posted 2009-12-31 11:59:28: As we noted earlier this month, the FCC recently set the ball rolling for the long and arduous task of migrating the country away from our legacy circuit-switched phone systems to an all-IP voice network. ..

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t3ln3t

@69.198.246.x

at&t ... hah!

You know, if the baby bells would upgrade the infrastructure, and not continue doing buisness much as it has since 1984 ... maybe it wouldn't be in this mess?

My question, what happens to all the copper on the poles, if they get to drop POTS? Do scavengers get to do as they wish?? Does it just sit up there until the cows come home?

Since at&t started down this path, all the baby bells left will follow suit. So what's to become of the copper? Will all the switches end up sitting in a warehouse? Maybe they'll be put on e-bay, or in at&t's pioneer shoppe (which has some groovy old payphones)?

This raises more questions than I can shake a stick at!

dmwagner
Qwest DSL -alltel

join:2002-04-29
Canton, SD

Re: at&t ... hah!

Around here there hasn't been phone lines on the poles for decades.

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless

Copper can't disappear anytime soon

I live in a major metropolitan area, and where I live there is no cable, and no fiber. I get DSL over dry loop. There is copper here because POTS was tariffed, and MaBell at the time was required to service the area. The only way to get IP connectivity here is over copper.

I am sure there are tons of people across the country in the same situation. If copper is left to rot, will the telcos be forced to replace the connectivity with coax or fiber? I think not. I can't get cable here because the cable operator will not run the thousand feet of coax for a potential 6 customers.

So, what's to happen to the many thousands of customers who rely on copper and have no alternative?
--
Would you ever go over to Czechoslovakia, and marry me daughter for me?"
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

Re: Copper can't disappear anytime soon

said by TamaraB:

I am sure there are tons of people across the country in the same situation. If copper is left to rot, will the telcos be forced to replace the connectivity with coax or fiber? I think not. I can't get cable here because the cable operator will not run the thousand feet of coax for a potential 6 customers.

So, what's to happen to the many thousands of customers who rely on copper and have no alternative?
So your in NYC and your block can't get cable?

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless

Re: Copper can't disappear anytime soon

said by patcat88:

.... So your in NYC and your block can't get cable?
Correct. At this fairly isolated waterfront community of 6 homes/families there is no cable nor fiber, only OLD copper.

People living here use DirecTV, and POTS/DSL for connectivity. I dumped POTS, and converted my copper pair to dry loop DSL, and use cell phone exclusively for voice.

I have called the local cable monopoly, and ordered cable, which at first they say IS available. However, they soon discover that it would require running 1000+feet of coax to service me, they quickly change their mind and say it's NOT available.

Without some government regulation stipulating that no matter what technology we migrate to from copper, that new technology MUST be provided to all those who are on copper now, many people country wide will be left without any access at all.

Bob
--
Would you ever go over to Czechoslovakia, and marry me daughter for me?"
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

Re: Copper can't disappear anytime soon

You should contact the DOITT or get a copy of the franchise agreement and see if they are required by the franchise agreement to build it for free.

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless

Re: Copper can't disappear anytime soon

Thanks! will do. Found this RE: DOITT »www.nyc.gov/html/doitt/html/home/home.shtml

Perhaps they have to provide some service under their contract with the city. However, I suspect they will fight tooth and nail not to, as it would be a long and expensive waterfront run to service one customer.

Bob
--
Would you ever go over to Czechoslovakia, and marry me daughter for me?"
wkm001

join:2009-12-14

I would love to have a land line...

but it is just too expensive. For 911 purposes and to lower the minutes package on my cell phone. But it is cheaper for me to increase my cell phone plan minutes package than to get a land line. Hopefully I never have to experience the need for 911 on a cell and be at home. So at the current pricing point the telcos have turned a home phone into a luxury.

TMMerlin
The Devil made me do it

join:2003-06-19
Oxford, MI
Reviews:
·EarthLink
·AT&T U-Verse

It's all just Mumboh'Jumboh .. !

Landlines will be here forever [well at least another 100 years] ..

Absolutely no cell carrier can beat a POTS Line for a phone call "from your home"..! I mean .. we are talking Landlines here ..

ALL DISTANCE® package

• Residential phone service with unlimited local calling and popular calling features
• Unlimited domestic Long Distance calling

$40.00 + the dumb taxes

Skip the pre-pay cells and scrappy phones you have to buy !

Skip the call carrier as they can not match the price and the phone are expensive and tooooo small ..Why buy one dinky phone when you can have a a Panasonic phone with 2 or 3 extensions for about $125 {for a real good one].

Then if you want ...add DSL [where availible ..sorry you folks in the boonies] that is far faster than RupTeeDoo 3 or 4G cellular and more reliable !

Then when you become an Old Fart ..the price goes down with LifeLine and Senior Citizen discount {let's hear about ANY cell carrier that will do that LMAO}.

POTS is here to stay ..
- cheap
- reliable
- and truly UNLIMITED minutes [ 24x7 ]

LMAO to the nay sayers ..!
--
Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy but they become legend.
jameswade

join:2001-12-09
Hot Springs, NC
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
·US Cellular

Re: It's all just Mumboh'Jumboh .. !

said by TMMerlin:

Landlines will be here forever [well at least another 100 years] ..

Absolutely no cell carrier can beat a POTS Line for a phone call "from your home"..! I mean .. we are talking Landlines here ..

ALL DISTANCE® package

• Residential phone service with unlimited local calling and popular calling features
• Unlimited domestic Long Distance calling

$40.00 + the dumb taxes
We can't get these prices where I live. It's actually cheaper to get 1400 minutes on a cell line. In our case we don't use more than about 500 minutes. And the cell phone works when the power poles are falling over with ice and snow. And we can take our cell phones with us when we leave the house.

said by TMMerlin:

Skip the pre-pay cells and scrappy phones you have to buy !

Skip the call carrier as they can not match the price and the phone are expensive and tooooo small ..Why buy one dinky phone when you can have a a Panasonic phone with 2 or 3 extensions for about $125 {for a real good one].
We don't have dinky phones and don't have to worry about phone extensions, we just drop the cell phones in our pocket and use it wherever we happen to need it.

said by TMMerlin:

Then if you want ...add DSL [where availible ..sorry you folks in the boonies] that is far faster than RupTeeDoo 3 or 4G cellular and more reliable !
You don't have to live in the boonies not to be able to get DSL. And 3G is faster than DSL I have had in some areas. 4G is pretty quick also. The high price and the caps are the real problems that you don't have to deal with with DSL.

said by TMMerlin:

Then when you become an Old Fart ..the price goes down with LifeLine and Senior Citizen discount {let's hear about ANY cell carrier that will do that LMAO}.

POTS is here to stay ..
- cheap
- reliable
- and truly UNLIMITED minutes [ 24x7 ]

LMAO to the nay sayers ..!
I don't agree that POTS is cheap or necessarily reliable, but you can have unlimited minutes. Of course you can have unlimited minutes with cell phone plans and VoIP, just depends on who you're calling. If you need to talk unlimited...

TMMerlin
The Devil made me do it

join:2003-06-19
Oxford, MI
Reviews:
·EarthLink
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: It's all just Mumboh'Jumboh .. !

Re: It's all just Mumboh'Jumboh .. !

I suspect it all depends where the price point is. The Mi MPSC didn't let AT&T screw-over Mi customers when they ate up SBC..who ate up Ameritech ..who ate up Michigan Bell.

I can actually get a Primary Residential Line for $19.95 + taxes and no LD carrier.
I also get Earthlink DSL at $29.95 that syncs at 1534/386 Mbps which is dbl the sync speed of AT&T DSL.

At any rate ...IMHO ..POTS will be around for a very long time.

I also don't buy into all the Wired and Social stuff of the younger generations ! There is nothing like the Real World and hearing the sound of a human voice.
--
Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy but they become legend.
MaynardKrebs
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:3

Divest all landline infrastructure in that case


If ATT thinks the landline is dead and has publically stated so, then they should be writing all those associated assets on their books down to zero effective immediately and taking a charge to their balance sheet, in accordance with GAAP.

Then they should be forced to give (read 'donate') all their outside copper wiring into a new, national not-for profit common carrier utility, which would then sell access to those wires to any and all independent ISP's who want to get into the copper-loop DSL business and POTS business themselves.

The not-for-profit can replace the copper it inherits with fiber over time.

This is what the FCC ought to demand and force ATT to do in return for allowing ATT to drop POTS.

JunjiHiroma
Live Free Or Die

join:2008-03-18

Re: Divest all landline infrastructure in that case

said by MaynardKrebs:

If ATT thinks the landline is dead and has publically stated so, then they should be writing all those associated assets on their books down to zero effective immediately and taking a charge to their balance sheet, in accordance with GAAP.

Then they should be forced to give (read 'donate') all their outside copper wiring into a new, national not-for profit common carrier utility, which would then sell access to those wires to any and all independent ISP's who want to get into the copper-loop DSL business and POTS business themselves.

The not-for-profit can replace the copper it inherits with fiber over time.

This is what the FCC ought to demand and force ATT to do in return for allowing ATT to drop POTS.
Agreed
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·RoadRunner Cable
said by MaynardKrebs:

Then they should be forced to give (read 'donate') all their outside copper wiring into a new, national not-for profit common carrier utility, which would then sell access to those wires to any and all independent ISP's who want to get into the copper-loop DSL business and POTS business themselves.

The not-for-profit can replace the copper it inherits with fiber over time.

This is what the FCC ought to demand and force ATT to do in return for allowing ATT to drop POTS.
Nice idea, but it falls flat.
You've already shown your true colors: you want the copper, but you want to TAKE IT BY FORCE from AT&T, rather than buy it at a negotiated price. Your fearless leader could try this, but the 4th amendment still protects even bad boys like AT&T.

Second, any such national not-for-profit would resemble the post office, and come with all sorts of strings - it would hire only SEIU and ACORN employees, and the graft and corruption would make Enron look tame. Like the post office, it would always run a deficit, requiring a bailout from the taxpayers, and yet, the rates charges would be substantially higher than the market delivers today, and the service levels.

Local coops make more sense. Created where useful and applicable, where telco really doesn't want the loops, and where community interest is keen - not just based on some desire to have something for nothing. With an internal profit motive, efficiency still occurs, while the proceeds recirculate locally instead of being sent off to Washington.

FastiBook

join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA

Not so sure...

I'm not so sure we should totally eliminate such older (and proven) technologies, if there were ever a serious EM burst from a solar event IP phone systems would be very much dead for a few hours at least. I think they should find a way to keep a minimum amount of "physical" point to point equipment, especially for first responders, hospitals etc.

- A
--
LETS GO METS!
jlynn334

join:2008-01-17
Paducah, KY

Re: Not so sure...

I work for the "phone company" and we WILL be switching to an IP based service. No ifs, ands, or buts. The only question is when. All routes will become mostly fiber, we might possibly retain the last 500' of copper for some residents. Those to will give way to fios in the future. All of the old "pots" service will be switched to new electronics. You will become an IP address on the new system. This will not be like traditional VOIP service like Vonage. It will be the same reliable service only through these new electronic switches. It just makes it easier, and quicker, for us to give our customers pots, dsl, or u-verse with less headaches and to meet the overwhelming demand from our customers (Verizon,T-Mobile, Sprint, and you) for ever increasing bandwidth. (Yes, the other networks ride our infrastructure).

TMMerlin
The Devil made me do it

join:2003-06-19
Oxford, MI
Reviews:
·EarthLink
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: Not so sure...

said by jlynn334:

I work for the "phone company" and we WILL be switching to an IP based service. No ifs, ands, or buts. The only question is when. All routes will become mostly fiber, we might possibly retain the last 500' of copper for some residents. Those to will give way to fios in the future. All of the old "pots" service will be switched to new electronics. You will become an IP address on the new system. This will not be like traditional VOIP service like Vonage. It will be the same reliable service only through these new electronic switches. It just makes it easier, and quicker, for us to give our customers pots, dsl, or u-verse with less headaches and to meet the overwhelming demand from our customers (Verizon,T-Mobile, Sprint, and you) for ever increasing bandwidth. (Yes, the other networks ride our infrastructure).
Earlier in the discussion ...I said it was all Mumboh'Jumboh .... "I am my own worst critic" .... well lets just say I was truthful on that particular day but a couple days after ... " I killed my 2 POTS lines .. decided to get rid of Earthlink DSL and DISH Sat TV ... all in one glorious tripleplay order to AT&T for U-Verse.

Dang .. the deal was to good to pass up. $460 in cash rewards from AT&T and $300 in free installation [ to be expected ]. Now I will have U300, VOIP and 6Meg Internet access.

Soooooooo ..my POTS lines are dead and I am a new U-Verse customer.

How could I not switch ???
- Home phone is $30/mo for unlimited mins w/LD and a long list of features. That's a reduction of $38/mo from the POTS line.
- U300 package is $4/mo cheaper than my DISH with the same selections and addon premiums [ HBO ets ]
- Internet access goes from 1.5Meg to 6Meg for $5/mo increase.
- I am less than 1,000 feet from the U-Verse HUB so the copper feeding the house "should not be an issue".
- I am keeping my Sprint phone ..it's only $30/mo and I use it just for calls when I am not home.

Oh well ..the other 12,800 feet of copper will most likely just hang on the poles between me and the CO .. Gee ..I wonder if AT&T will give it to me so I can sell it at a junk yard for some money ??
--
Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy but they become legend.

datguy99

@verizon.net

what happens when you rip all the copper out

and now your cell phones dont work as well??

Oopss I forgot most people dont realize a lot of cell phone traffic (including text messages, video, etc) still run over copper cables in a lot of locations..

be careful of what you cut out!

nytechguy

@rr.com

rip it up

Yeah and while we are at it lets start drilling alaska, LOL.

We need to abandon copper and just start laying down and lighting up existing fiber right now, not in 2015 or by 2020, but now. And mobile telecoms have to realize that they are ISP's not just phone companies anymore. And if i want to tether " bsicaly view my data that i pay for on my computer screen" whats the big deal. I mean the caps are still in play let me view the web on a bigger screen if i want too.
Synbios

join:2002-05-18
Arlington, VA

POTS is still necessary for many things

When you lose power, POTS still works.

I also do not like VoIP using my internet connection, I like to have all my bandwidth dedicated to transfers/gaming. It's pretty sad when your ping starts getting bad when someone picks up the phone.

POTS for life.
jandar

join:2006-01-16
Middleburg, FL

Re: POTS is still necessary for many things

said by Synbios:

When you lose power, POTS still works.

I also do not like VoIP using my internet connection, I like to have all my bandwidth dedicated to transfers/gaming. It's pretty sad when your ping starts getting bad when someone picks up the phone.

POTS for life.
My internet is just fine, i can run a binary news reader at full speed and game at under 100ms pings on comcast cable. I also have voipo. It sounds crystal clear on both ends while doing so.
Never had any issues.

Make sure you have QoS on your router, and at least a decent router. Never had any issues, but I also work with cisco stuff all day at work as well.

insomniac84

join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN

Not dead at all.

As long as they can charge anything extra for some kind of voice service they will. Most likely they will implement some kind of portable number thing. One person, one number, any device. First device to respond rings.

vipergg22

@netacc.net

Re: Not dead at all.

Yeah we also saw well wireless worked when Sept 11,2001 happened .
firedrakes

join:2009-01-29
Arcadia, FL

Re: Not dead at all.

well the thing is sept 11 the cell can handle that much calling. but it like a server to many people connect at once!
NyNexit

join:2009-11-01
Huntington, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

New Idea

Here is an idea,

Why not turn all land line infrastructure (in some areas) into a non profit municipal utility, and give those in low income areas or rural areas access to cheap reliable telephone access.

I like VOIP and my mobile but when it comes to quality, POTS is king. Its just a shame the phone companies are going to tear it out.
Thoughts?
albundyhere

join:2000-10-26
New York, NY

Am I the only one on dial-up speeds?

Yeah, you heard me right! not that I use a phone line...Its the normal speed that Time Warner provides in Flushing, NY even though I pay for 10mbps. Truthfully, ATT, Verizon and all cable co's are fighting a losing battle. Once MS and/or Google get their hands on an ISP, these teleco's / cable co's WILL literally go bankrupt. YAY for those bastards!
mworks

join:2006-06-13
Faison, NC

AT&T PR

haha , if you haven't read the pdf read it. It is a good laugh. This has nothing to do with helping customers get better access. It reads like an ad for AT&T.
BrianB31

join:2002-01-04
Belleville, MI

AT&T and Dish Network land line requirements.

If AT&T wants to dump the land lines then they and Dish Network can either give me the 5 bucks they'll charge per month because my Dish receivers need a land line or loose the requirement.

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