 BK
join:2001-09-10
Chicago, IL | very well put Great article Karl. Don't know if you always get the thanks and appreciation you deserve. thanks!
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-formerly sMoKeNiNja |
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 LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5
1 edit | When was last time your electric meter chkd by gov't? One problem with the electricity metaphor? If carriers want to compare themselves to your local electrical utility, they'd better be ready to have their meters heavily regulated to guarantee accuracy -- just like your electricity meter. Nice claim, but I don't see anyone chking accuracy of my electric meter. I have lived 30 years in my house and NOT ONCE has anyone from a gov't agency verified the accuracy of my electric meter. Anyone else ever see that happen??
P.S.>> or my water meter either.
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| The process of meter examination is entirely regulated by the government. How it's measured, when it's measured. Are you trying to pretend this isn't so? |
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And you are the entire universe, are you?
Why do you always stick up for the corporations in these stories? |
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 McSummationMmmm, Zeebas Are Tastee.Premium,MVM
join:2003-08-13
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:2 | meter in my machine I've been using BWMeter for several months, just so I can see what my internet usage is. If AT&T starts metering, I'll have another piece of software looking at my DSL line besides AT&T. |
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Re: When was last time your electric meter chkd by gov't? I have a friend that works in electric meter inspection. At least here in Ontario, electric meters are individually tested and certified by a department of the local utility. Any customer can request their meter to be tested and/or replaced. Accuracy is taken very seriously, and both the provincial and federal governments have oversight roles in the matter. |
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LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5
4 edits | reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode:The process of meter examination is entirely regulated by the government. How it's measured, when it's measured. Are you trying to pretend this isn't so? I am saying that that regulation is not actually enforced to any degree at all for residences. Maybe for gas stations, businesses, etc.
You accept what the electric co. says you are being billed is accurate - UNLESS YOU COMPLAIN. And I suspect that any cable usage metering will work the same way.
Even when the electric meter is tested, error is allowed up to 2% and the testing is done by the utility and ONLY WITNESSED by the state.
Comcast, for example, has already tested their meter and the margin of error was much less than 2%.
»netforecast.com/documents/NFR510···racy.pdf
Comcast’s stated goal is that the usage meter correctly reflect traffic passing through a
subscriber's cable modem within plus-or-minus 1.0% accuracy over the month. Our
analysis validates that the accuracy of the Comcast meter for subscribers served by the
Cisco 10000 CMTS is within plus-or-minus 0.5% over the month, well within
Comcast’s stated goal. And does anyone seriously think some state regulator is going to dispute the companies claims of accuracy when provided with the testing info done by an independent 3rd party?
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 espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
 ·Vitelity VOIP
| "Who'll confirm this?" How about the subscribers of the ISPs themselves?
Come on, the people who subscribe to ISPs are not idiots. Meters are now a common part of residential grade NAT/Router devices, and many free software options exist. Not only that, but unlike their electric meters, ISP subscribers don't need to risk electrocution to install a meter of their own.
said by Karl Bode:Are there laws protecting consumers from abuse? Nope. Right.
If you collected evidence that ISP meters were substantially incorrect I'm sure the attorney general of your state of residence would simply ignore bringing any kind of unfair billing practices lawsuit against the ISP.
Get real. The people who take up that office get a hard on over the idea of prosecuting companies for that sort of thing. |
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 maartenaElmoPremium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:1 | reply to Linklist
Re: When was last time your electric meter chkd by gov't? said by Linklist:One problem with the electricity metaphor? If carriers want to compare themselves to your local electrical utility, they'd better be ready to have their meters heavily regulated to guarantee accuracy -- just like your electricity meter. Nice claim, but I don't see anyone chking accuracy of my electric meter. I have lived 30 years in my house and NOT ONCE has anyone from a gov't agency verified the accuracy of my electric meter. Anyone else ever see that happen?? P.S.>> or my water meter either. They don't actually come to your house. The electricity company changes the meters every so often and when they place an order of say..... 4,000 meters of a certain kind, that will be replaced at a certain time, government regulaters take a random amount of meters from random batches of meters being delivered, e.g. they take 27 out of the 4,000 and test them for accuracy in their lab. If it turns out a certain percentage of the meters are not accurate (in EITHER direction, they don't want the customers to pay less either), they can start a system wide random test of that type of meter. If too many discrepancies are found, they can force the utility company to test every meter before they go out.
That you haven't had a visit of the government doesn't mean a thing. In 30 years you probably DID have the electricity company change out your meter and that replaced meter was most likely part of a random test.
It would be far too costly to test meters across town. Since electricity meters are replaced on a regular basis, it is much more cost effective to ensure any new meters being installed are correct, instead of testing all meters in town.
Testing the accuracy of a ISP meter is a lot easier, and can be done from anywhere.
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 jlivingoodPremium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA
kudos:1
1 edit | Hmmm.... Karl wrote: Comcast recently unveiled their new meter in Portland, using a firm of their choice to determine it's accuracy. The firm they hired, of course, proclaimed proudly that the meter was accurate to within 0.5% each month.
Who'll confirm this? Nobody. While I can understand the generalities of your story*, the specific ding against how Comcast released the meter seems unjustified. In an environment where an ISP could simply release a meter, it seems an objectively good thing that we used an independent party to audit the meter, that we had them share a report on the matter, and that they fully described how the system functioned and how they tested it.
If you question their independence or background, which I think is unfounded, you can find out who they are here:
»netforecast.com/ContactInfoFrameset.htm
Scott Bradner - »netforecast.com/biography%20Scot···r%20.htm
Rebecca Wetzel - »netforecast.com/biography%20Rebe···l%20.htm
John Bartlett - »netforecast.com/biography%20John···lett.htm
Peter Sevcik - »netforecast.com/biography%20Peter%20S.htm
You can see their client list here:
»netforecast.com/ClientFrameset.htm
And I can tell you they were highly recommended by members of the Internet community.
Jason
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JL
Comcast
* I think it is completely fair to ask how you can stand behind a meter and is it accurate. And for that reason, I think the basics of your story prompt a worthwhile discussion. When we planned the meter, I thought that it'd be the case that the question of proving its accuracy would logically be raised and so I suggested having a 3rd party audit it and - further - share the results of that with our customers and the public. |
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LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5
1 edit | reply to maartena
Re: When was last time your electric meter chkd by gov't? My meter was never replaced in 30 yrs of service. But see my later post in this thread for more explanation of my position. »Re: When was last time your electric meter chkd by gov't? |
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| Not worth it........ Between the normal modem/head end chatter making it just too hard to measure, and page adspace (much of it high bitrate) users don't want, ask for, and have no control over, measuring down to the byte just isn't worth the trouble.
ISP's could create multi-GB zones, by which could more readily be measured, and bill users according to the 'zone' their usage has landed them in. I realize there would have to be a fine line between these 'zones', but it wouldn't seem to be nearly as messy a billing by the byte.
Just a thought. |
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nishiko7Premium
join:2007-05-01
Pleasant Hill, CA | reply to McSummation
Re: meter in my machine said by McSummation:I've been using BWMeter for several months... Thanks for making me (and others aware of BWMeter. Looks great, but it's also $30.
I've been using Networx (»download.cnet.com/NetWorx/3000-2···904.html) for about 6 months now (somone else on DSLR recommended (in the comments like this) once). I'm VERY happy with it. Just like with BWMeter, you can network other computers to get a better sense on your total network usage. BW Meter looks like it may be a bit more advanced, but for the price difference, I think many would be happy with Networx. If you are, you might consider throwing them a small bone, like we should for all great "free" software we use a lot to help support it.
Ideally, it is best to have this functionality on your router, but that's not always practical or convenient or cost effective. So this method is a second best way to get a read on your bandwidth usage. Of course, with all the individual non-pc devices being added to networks these days, this second pc by pc method will only give you a general read, but most non-pc devices also don't consume much bandwidth, so in most cases, this will be good enough. |
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 BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | reply to Linklist
Re: When was last time your electric meter chkd by gov't? said by Linklist:One problem with the electricity metaphor? If carriers want to compare themselves to your local electrical utility, they'd better be ready to have their meters heavily regulated to guarantee accuracy -- just like your electricity meter. Nice claim, but I don't see anyone chking accuracy of my electric meter. I have lived 30 years in my house and NOT ONCE has anyone from a gov't agency verified the accuracy of my electric meter. Anyone else ever see that happen?? P.S.>> or my water meter either. Well how about this argument. Electric companies are regulated by the governemnt. So if ISPs wish to comapre themsleves to utilites surely they won't mind being regulated like one. but of course they would. They want their cake and eat it to and they can't. |
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LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 | said by BF69:said by Linklist:One problem with the electricity metaphor? If carriers want to compare themselves to your local electrical utility, they'd better be ready to have their meters heavily regulated to guarantee accuracy -- just like your electricity meter. Nice claim, but I don't see anyone chking accuracy of my electric meter. I have lived 30 years in my house and NOT ONCE has anyone from a gov't agency verified the accuracy of my electric meter. Anyone else ever see that happen?? P.S.>> or my water meter either. Well how about this argument. Electric companies are regulated by the governemnt. So if ISPs wish to comapre themsleves to utilites surely they won't mind being regulated like one. but of course they would. They want their cake and eat it to and they can't. Cable companies are regulated 6 ways from Sunday. By state & local boards and by the FCC.
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nishiko7Premium
join:2007-05-01
Pleasant Hill, CA | reply to jlivingood
Re: Hmmm.... @jlivingood
Thanks for the input. It appears perhaps Comcast is taking it very seriously and is trying to be fair about it, and if so, that's much appreciated by all their customers no doubt. |
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BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | reply to espaeth
Re: "Who'll confirm this?" said by espaeth:How about the subscribers of the ISPs themselves? Come on, the people who subscribe to ISPs are not idiots. Meters are now a common part of residential grade NAT/Router devices, and many free software options exist. Not only that, but unlike their electric meters, ISP subscribers don't need to risk electrocution to install a meter of their own. said by Karl Bode:Are there laws protecting consumers from abuse? Nope. Right. If you collected evidence that ISP meters were substantially incorrect I'm sure the attorney general of your state of residence would simply ignore bringing any kind of unfair billing practices lawsuit against the ISP. Get real. The people who take up that office get a hard on over the idea of prosecuting companies for that sort of thing. You mean how the government has slapped Verizon hard about charging $1.99 for non-existant data useage? Oh wait they didn't anything about that. |
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nishiko7Premium
join:2007-05-01
Pleasant Hill, CA | reply to BK
Re: very well put said by BK:Great article Karl. Don't know if you always get the thanks and appreciation you deserve. thanks! I second that! Karl you are pretty much in idol territory to me. I LOVE the way you word articles. Hard hitting, good stuff. BBR is my favorite web destination, and you are the biggest part of that!
The pro-consumer cause you and others like StopTheCap are leading cannot be held in high enough regard in my book. Keep up the great job (please)!! |
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espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Vitelity VOIP
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Re: "Who'll confirm this?" said by BF69:You mean how the government has slapped Verizon hard about charging $1.99 for non-existant data useage? Oh wait they didn't anything about that. The FCC started an inquiry in December.
Don't think some state's Attorney General isn't drawing up a game plan to get in that fight - it's only a matter of time. |
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 SkullBot
join:2003-05-07
Huntington Beach, CA | Problem So with all the flash and java heavy advertising on websites these days, plus updates for programs, windows, antivirus software, these thing are counted against the cap. I find that very wrong on many levels, I should not have to deal with advertising and spam if these caps are put in place, say that I get infected with a virus that forces me to format and reload, I only have a copy of windows with SP2, so now I have to download a ton of updates for both windows and any security software I put on, this all counts against the cap, now to compound this, say the cap is 250GB, now not only am I supposed to keep track of how much I use, I can potentially go over the cap just doing routine system maintenance, this problem gets bigger if i have to do this on more then one computer.
My point is, capping just screams of the early 90's bill by the minute model, with all the WIFI things that are coming out, bandwidth usage will continue to go up, not to mention the problem with these ads getting bigger and more intrusive, these are all counted against the cap and I haven't even touched on anything else that can gobble up bandwidth. |
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