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Comments on news posted 2010-01-12 14:19:28: In 2010, Verizon will complete the first wave of their FiOS fiber to the home deployment. ..

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wesm
Premium Member
join:1999-07-29
Seattle, WA

wesm

Premium Member

Something to be said for being in D/FW

In my little burb (not the one to the left, it's closer to Keller), Verizon just finished wiring southern Keller--the part served by AT&T--and, I supposed, figured they'd do the next town over while they had the trucks out. Since Verizon came in, there's now five video providers (AT&T, Verizon, Charter, DISH and DirecTV, in no particular order) and four Internet (Verizon, AT&T, Charter and Clear). It's a pity none of them are playing off each other to keep prices down, though...
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin to fifty nine

Member

to fifty nine

Re: If they want to ramp up the uptake...

said by fifty nine:

said by Corydon:

Bear in mind too that very few people out there fall into the "fanboy" category. There are plenty of people here who will spend what it takes to get the best experience they can. But they're a minority. The majority are far more sensitive to price.
Agreed but two things make people switch to Verizon.

1. The prices

2. The perception (right or wrong) that FiOS provides an overall better experience.

#1 is a straight numbers game. However, Verizon is offering a lot of deals to sweeten the pot - free this, free that, gift cards etc.

#2 is subjective, especially with Cablevision markets and people who want to keep their analog service. Cablevision in particular has been putting up a damn good fight against FiOS and is even winning in some cases. But things like "more HD channels" and "nerve shattering internet" will drive a lot of people to FiOS.
Apparently Verizon is having trouble with uptake. They`re obviously going to have the sweeten the pot even more. Raising prices is not going to make it easier for them.
sonicmerlin

sonicmerlin to N3OGH

Member

to N3OGH

Re: Can FiOS compete?

said by N3OGH:

Well of course it will be zero in areas of non deployment.

Keep in mind the cost of marketing these services. IF, they can concentrate their advertising dollars in areas of existing deployment, they can increase the uptake in that particular area, getting the most bang for the marketing buck.

They can't put it everywhere overnight. They would go out of business. They need to see SOME ROI on the existing build out, or they could run the company right into the ground.

I waited for years to get Fios where I live. Half the town had it, the other did not. It sucked waiting, but I understand the strategy, and I believe it to be sound from a business standpoint.

Just my opinion...
Actually considering the massive amounts of profit they make every year they probably could install it overnight.
munky99999
Munky
join:2004-04-10
canada

munky99999

Member

CANADA!

Lets get that first phase going in Canada. We have no competition at all in Canada.

I would gladly get Fios over the shitsandwich options I have now.

The tv option I'm not so sure about. If I have 5 tvs. Do I need to get 5 boxes for each tv? That's the main reason I havent gone anywhere near the new digital box tv offers. Also with fios? what wiring is being run around?

Despite those concerns. I'd still without a question drop my current garbage.
ashworth7
join:2001-10-06
Pittsburgh, PA

1 edit

ashworth7 to sonicmerlin

Member

to sonicmerlin

Re: Can FiOS compete?

You are a Communist ? Or just a nimrod ?

EyeBision
@verizon.net

EyeBision to FFH5

Anon

to FFH5

Re: That is a hell of a morale booster.

The boss thinks they can get to 40%. The employees think they can only get to 34%. It is good mgt to set a target HIGHER than what the employees think is fair. And bonuses & compensation should be based on busting their asses and not just reaching an easy target.
Good management? Apparently you don't work for Verizon or your a manager suckling off of his tit. I am an employee there and I have to tell you, the management structure (especially towards the top) are so far removed from reality that it is severely hurting company morale and throwing customers away - for example, look at the new DRM. From my perspective, their outright draconian treatment of the workers is shameless. We are labeled guilty until proven innocent. On one hand, we have a meeting and they're telling us we are one of the best in the nation for productivity from one manager, then another comes in the next week telling us we need better numbers or there will be heads rolling. They are the quintessential micro-managers, wanting to know every possible variable down to the minute and want every job coded correctly without fail. Otherwise you will be disciplined. We are to "wow" each customer and try to upsell whenever possible and have them begging us to give us their money.

Out of our technicians, there are maybe 2 out of the whole group that are happy. The others are so fed up with the treatment that we are either hopelessly looking for other employment or going to school to finish our degrees to one day do the same as the first group. Others just bitch and complain but just put up with it. Hey Ivan, I have your 40% right here a$$hole. I'm not a salesman and it's not my job description. I am a technician and a damned good one at that. Stop having your sales team cut us off at the knees and selling numerous dvr's to old timers that can't even wrap their mind around the concept of a widget for christsakes. Does anyone here have any idea how long it takes to teach an 85yr old with macular degeneration how to use all the functions of a fios remote???

lol. If I don't laugh, I will cry. peace.

Rob23
@windstream.net

Rob23 to sonicmerlin

Anon

to sonicmerlin

Re: If they want to ramp up the uptake...

IF you read page 6 of the transcript you get a different view of the take rate. He also said fios " Turned EBITDA positive in 2008 Operating income positive in 2009 which we are close to but not quite there and net income positive "?" the year after that......."

hambone42
Peace, through superior firepower
Premium Member
join:2002-02-02
Manassas, VA

hambone42 to sonicmerlin

Premium Member

to sonicmerlin
said by sonicmerlin:

Apparently Verizon is having trouble with uptake. They`re obviously going to have the sweeten the pot even more. Raising prices is not going to make it easier for them.
Then it sure seems like they're going in the wrong direction, if this previous news story »Verizon's FiOS ETF: $360 Starting January 17 [162] comments is accurate. I can't speak for others, but the proposed new rate structure and doubled ETF is making me reconsider the jump to FiOS, even with all the issues I've had with Comcast over the years.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2 to Z80A

Premium Member

to Z80A
said by Z80A:

Price is king. Speed isn't.
... sigh... this isn't true... what ever the consumer finds more of a value to them IS king... not everyone shops on price.. not everyone shops on speed..
fiberguy2

fiberguy2 to fifty nine

Premium Member

to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

said by tiger72:

paying customers are paying customers. If they want uptake, their pricing needs to be more competitive rather than raising rates.
They're already cheaper than cable in many places. The only reason cable is cheaper in some places is because cable is feeling the heat from competition.
This is an interesting statement you make... it's funny where the shoe is on the other foot... phone used to RAPE THE HELL out of the consumer until cable came along.. a lot of people seem to forget just how expensive phone was, and quite honestly, still is in many cases.

Phone isn't innocent.. so it's time to stop pretending.

It's about competition.. not phone, not cable, not satellite.. it's competition period.
alexeig
join:2008-07-29
Los Angeles, CA

alexeig

Member

Gimme the address!

How do I figure out which apartment buildings in my area have FIOS? My area is Marina del Rey and Venice, California (90292), and quite a few home owners I know have FIOS - but no renters. I know I can qualify the address if I know it - but what if I don't? How do I get a list of FIOS-equipped (or eligible) buildings in my area?

(Calling Verizon about it was a waste of time.)

Jmartz0
join:2000-07-20
Tenafly, NJ

Jmartz0

Member

Contracts

Verizon needs to stop forcing people onto contracts to get their deals. I think if their product is as good as everyone says it is, then they shouldn't have to lock people in for 1 or 2 years. I understand wanting to keep the customer around to get their money back on installation and everything, but the contract is a big turn off for many. They should do everything possible to lure new customers for the first year without a contract, and then offer those customers the ability to sign a contract after the first year to maintain the same pricing, or similar pricing for the second year.

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

aaronwt to hambone42

Premium Member

to hambone42

Re: If they want to ramp up the uptake...

said by hambone42:

said by sonicmerlin:

Apparently Verizon is having trouble with uptake. They`re obviously going to have the sweeten the pot even more. Raising prices is not going to make it easier for them.
Then it sure seems like they're going in the wrong direction, if this previous news story »Verizon's FiOS ETF: $360 Starting January 17 [162] comments is accurate. I can't speak for others, but the proposed new rate structure and doubled ETF is making me reconsider the jump to FiOS, even with all the issues I've had with Comcast over the years.
the 17th can't get here soon enough. I want to change my bundle so I can get the 35/35 tier. And if for some unforseen reason I have to move.. oh well..I signed the agreement so I have to pay the ETF. that's life. It certainly won't stop me from getting a new bundle. ETFs have never stopped me before with DirecTV and Comcast. So why would it make any difference with FIOS?
aaronwt

1 edit

aaronwt to Jmartz0

Premium Member

to Jmartz0

Re: Contracts

said by Jmartz0:

Verizon needs to stop forcing people onto contracts to get their deals. I think if their product is as good as everyone says it is, then they shouldn't have to lock people in for 1 or 2 years. I understand wanting to keep the customer around to get their money back on installation and everything, but the contract is a big turn off for many. They should do everything possible to lure new customers for the first year without a contract, and then offer those customers the ability to sign a contract after the first year to maintain the same pricing, or similar pricing for the second year.
and how is this different than Comcast? For me to get the good rates from Comcast around here, I need to sign up for a long term bundle, and there is an ETF too.
This is no different than FIOS. Although the ETF with FIOS will certainly be higher after the 17th.
briand805
join:2002-10-05
Rockaway Beach, MO

briand805

Member

fios

fios is in the town i am living... Some of it that is. The street I live on is undergoing major construction. New pavement, sidewalks, trees all that. The project manager came to the house a couple months back to give us some paper work. I mentioned verizon and fios. Her response was interesting.. She told me they( the city) offered to let them come in before they started the project to lay fiber. They told her they just don't have the money to do this area of town.

AnonPerson
join:2000-08-26
Lexington, KY

AnonPerson to Bob61571

Member

to Bob61571

Re: At my curb but not my house

Thank you for the information. I am in central Illinois.

I do remember hearing about a possible Verizon buyout a couple years ago, but I was unaware anything has actually been set in motion. Truly sad for the future development of broadband in the mid-west.
Warren968
join:2009-11-13
Brooklyn, NY

Warren968 to wesm

Member

to wesm

Re: Something to be said for being in D/FW

If prices stay the same, then you have a Cartel in your area.

A thing that the U.S.D.o.J. frowns upon, and every state attorney general aren't too happy with either.
Warren968

Warren968 to briand805

Member

to briand805

Re: fios

If only Ivan would lower his $25,000,000.00 yearly compensation package, there would be money in the budget for laying that fiber there.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536 to fifty nine

Premium Member

to fifty nine

Re: If they want to ramp up the uptake...

said by fifty nine:
said by Z80A:

And so long as they raise prices like cable, they will have difficultly competing with cable.

Price is king. Speed isn't.

IOW, if they expect to see an uptake with their endless price increases...they're in for a long wait.
Do you really see any people here canceling FiOS and going back to cable because they raise the prices? Didn't think so.
the only downside to fios: AVAILABILITY.

Bill Neilson
Premium Member
join:2009-07-08
Alexandria, VA

Bill Neilson to aaronwt

Premium Member

to aaronwt
said by aaronwt:

said by hambone42:

said by sonicmerlin:

Apparently Verizon is having trouble with uptake. They`re obviously going to have the sweeten the pot even more. Raising prices is not going to make it easier for them.
Then it sure seems like they're going in the wrong direction, if this previous news story »Verizon's FiOS ETF: $360 Starting January 17 [162] comments is accurate. I can't speak for others, but the proposed new rate structure and doubled ETF is making me reconsider the jump to FiOS, even with all the issues I've had with Comcast over the years.
the 17th can't get here soon enough. I want to change my bundle so I can get the 35/35 tier. And if for some unforseen reason I have to move.. oh well..I signed the agreement so I have to pay the ETF. that's life. It certainly won't stop me from getting a new bundle. ETFs have never stopped me before with DirecTV and Comcast. So why would it make any difference with FIOS?
Not everyone has an extra few hundred to cancel a service

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

aaronwt

Premium Member

said by Bill Neilson:

Not everyone has an extra few hundred to cancel a service
I don't either but I understand that if I sign the contract that I am legally liable for it. And I have no intention of trying to get out of obligations that I approved when I signed up.

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine to fiberguy2

Member

to fiberguy2
Oh I agree, and I distrust Verizon and big pseudo monopolies in general.

But in the video delivery market there are now several choices, and two choices for many people who don't have a view of the Southern sky.

Z80A
Premium Member
join:2009-11-23

Z80A to dvd536

Premium Member

to dvd536
And the worst billing on the planet.
Z80A

3 edits

Z80A to fiberguy2

Premium Member

to fiberguy2
Go look at the DSLR/Archive and you will see speed isn't king, even with the nerds on DSLR. The vast majority avoid the 50/20 tier.

»/archi ··· Graph+it

And for the general population it is even more true. They simply don't buy the fat$ tiers. They buy the cheaper bottom end tiers.

Offering 50/20 doesn't mean anything if it's $99+/mo. Telcos SMOKED cable in new adds when they offered their dirt cheap DSL and then they themselves got smoked when they hiked the prices. Triple play, limited time promos, free this free that...it all speaks to the indisputable fact that price is king.

If speed was king, Verizon would see 100% of available fiber customers buying FiOS over cable or DSL and this whole article is about how people aren't and VZ is stopping to focus on it. They can focus until they are blue in the face. They won't see the big "uptake" they're looking for unless they drop the price.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

First off, I don't care about any statistic or group thinking from the people on this site.. not one bit.. it's not an accurate depiction of the general buying public, for one...

Second, yes, speed did matter and still does.. people still call for faster speeds.. only, at the same time, they're calling for lower prices.. so I believe there is a little of both in the mix, which is what I just said.

When phone came in with the cheaper rates on DSL, people soon figured out it wasn't a great deal afterall.. look at the number of people dropping land lines for cell and voip. Now that $14 DSL line they were underpricing became $50 and $60 ... and what did you get? a 768 or 1.5 meg line? yea.. that's real value. I'd still rather pay the $42 fee to cable and get those faster speeds that everyone salavates for... daily.

There is also a reason why the 50/20 speeds are priced the way they are.. it's not that they are expensive.. it doesn't cost more to send the same amount of data faster, per say, but it does stop more people from wanting it.. so yes, again, there are people that will shop by price... I said that. I never said "speed was king".. I said that people buy for what they need..

Also.. just becuase VERIZON'S 'fios' is available doesn't mean everyone will jump on it.. are you not getting what I'm saying? People make their own choices for what best suits themselves! You're now saying that Fiber is king.. or should be... I can tell you right now.. if Verizon was my phone provider, I'd STILL take Comcast anyday over dealign with such an incredibly insane phone company such as Verizon.. I'd much rather shove their fiber up their collected butts and see if the light shines out their noses than to use their services.

You forget SOOOO many aspects as to why a consumer makes the choice they do.. MANY people here would jump on VERIZON'S "fios" product becuase people here tend to be more technically included and want fiber.. if you don't see that, you're not reading close enough. Verizon needs to do more than just drop the price to get more customers.. they need to improve thier crappy customer service AND their plague of billing problems as well.. you see, people haven't forgotten that they're stil the nasty phone company they've been beat up by for years... so they're not going to all believe that verizon all the sudden found religion and will be better simply becuase they have fiber service.

You must be young or younger becuase there are many people that still, to this day, HATE the phone company for the years and years of their abusive powers they had government rights over on the people with.. back in the old day, their motto was "we dont' have to care, we're the phone company"...

bottom line.. there is NOT one simple reason why a product succeeds or fails.. there are many reasons.. so to say 'price is king" is invalid.. PERIOD! That may be for you, and those that think like you, but for me.. its many things.. speed, price, offerings, company reputation, policies, and overall value of what I'm getting for my money.. I choose the lesser of the two evils that work for ME..

Bill Neilson
Premium Member
join:2009-07-08
Alexandria, VA

Bill Neilson

Premium Member

said by fiberguy2:

people still call for faster speeds.. only, at the same time, they're calling for lower prices.. so I believe there is a little of both in the mix, which is what I just said.
Where? Like, can you show me one time someone demanded more speed for LESS than they currently paid?

I see many here complaining (like myself) that I am getting the same service every year yet being charged more and more and more for it.

If I got better service every year, chances are low that I would be complaining when the price increases
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

You'd have to be blind not to see it... it's a common cry here on BBR.. people want more speed and think it should be cheaper since the technology is aged.. Search BBR, you'll find it yourself..

Second, the major cable players, at least, have been charging pretty much the SAME price for years and have increased the speeds.. they RECENTLY have started to inch up the price by a buck or two, or have increased modem rentals, which you're able to buy your own and not rent one. (that's your choice) The rate increases you are likely talking about are those of the video portion.. but interenet prices have largely stayed the same for almost a decade, for the most part.

PHONE on the other hand HAS raised their rates.. they're constantly wheeling and dealing with their prices.. they've fallen as far as $12.95 a month and fluctuate all the time.. that's the phone company and anyone that follows my posts know how I feel about the phone company and their pricing games..

So, you're saying you're not getting better service? and you're on Cox and Comcast? They've both dramatically increased their speeds... and who is to say that you need to see an ANNUAL SPEED INCREASE....? That's a desire, but it's never been implied that they do that..

Again... your interent bills have NOT gone up, with cable at least, anythign dramatic.. yet your speeds have.. from 1.5 to the average 12 meg or more is pretty substantial if you ask me.

I think you're seeing what you want to and ignoring a lot of facts... There are people here ALL THE TIME wanting more and to pay less for it..

hambone42
Peace, through superior firepower
Premium Member
join:2002-02-02
Manassas, VA

hambone42 to aaronwt

Premium Member

to aaronwt
said by aaronwt:

I don't either but I understand that if I sign the contract that I am legally liable for it. And I have no intention of trying to get out of obligations that I approved when I signed up.
Exactly my thoughts on the subject.

I just started the second year of a two-year contract for my VZW cellphone. The difference between that situation and FiOS is that if I move from this area, I can take the phone with me and still be reasonably certain I'll be able to use the service. There's no guarantee that I would be able to do the same with FiOS, since I can't predict today when, where, or if I might move within the next two years. I'm not interested in signing a contract with Comcast for a bundle, for the same reasons.

Verizon, Comcast, and the rest are obviously free to establish whatever contractual restrictions they think are smart and/or profitable. I am equally free to decline their terms; I am a little curious, about how they measure or estimate lost sales due to these contract terms.

Z80A
Premium Member
join:2009-11-23

2 edits

Z80A to fiberguy2

Premium Member

to fiberguy2
Yeah, and when the telcos did drop the prices they got RECORD ADDS, flat smoking cable. They got so many new subscribers they ran out of slot capacity in a lot of central offices. »news.cnet.com/Can-DSL-ha ··· 271.html They raised their prices to cut demand. It's a very simple concept because price is king. Period. VZ isn't going to get the adds they want at the prices they're charging. Period.

Bill Neilson
Premium Member
join:2009-07-08
Alexandria, VA

1 edit

Bill Neilson to fiberguy2

Premium Member

to fiberguy2
said by fiberguy2:

You'd have to be blind not to see it... it's a common cry here on BBR.. people want more speed and think it should be cheaper since the technology is aged.. Search BBR, you'll find it yourself..
I have....I can't find one person wanting better service for LESS than what they are paying for now.

Maybe you could find me one person....since YOU said it?

BTW, Comcast/Cox were past services. I do not have either anymore. I just reviewed them and had them pegged on me. For Cox, I went 3 years without any sort of speed upgrade yet ended up paying 20% more by the time I left it. So, yes, I got the same service for more money every year.

If companies want to raise rates, fine...we all work and want a profit....but to do so yearly without any yearly upgrades is a joke and worthy of complaining
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