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Comments on news posted 2010-01-22 16:01:21: Buried under the roar of the media's obsession with Apple's looming tablet computer this week was a tiny little story about an agency you might have heard about (the FBI) repeatedly breaking the law by faking terrorism emergencies in order to get pho.. ..

page: 1 · 2
33358088
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2

3 edits

nixonized usa

seems to me the mafia really is running the usa, just as nixon days
see how that turned out near its end

the protests?
watergate
vietnam war

see any similarities?

they just made it legal now.....
maybe they should make prostitution legal so presidents can ya know clinton them....of course just for him....
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

1 recommendation

Re: nixonized usa

Hoax and Chains

CopperFiber

join:2009-12-08
AT&T always had open door for the Feds !

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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said by 33358088:

see any similarities?
Not really.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
If Nixon was in power and Watergate happened today, they'd declare it legal; Fox would broadcast about how it was perfectly fair; Rush Limbaugh would call Nixon a hero; and Nixon would win 4 more years in the White House.

/disgusted

I think there's not much chance left that the people in the country of the USA have what it takes anymore to avert the destruction of their nation---- from within.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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Re: nixonized usa

said by KrK:

If Nixon was in power and Watergate happened today, they'd declare it legal; Fox would broadcast about how it was perfectly fair; Rush Limbaugh would call Nixon a hero; and Nixon would win 4 more years in the White House.
Objection, Your Honor: Speculation!
I think there's not much chance left that the people in the country of the USA have what it takes anymore to avert the destruction of their nation---- from within.
Been going that way for a couple of centuries. Nothing new, move along.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
Roop

join:2003-11-15
Ottawa, ON

Re: nixonized usa

NO NO NO - let's not "move on".

this is a disgusting statement.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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join:2001-02-14
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Re: nixonized usa

The "Nixonization" of America is completely wrong, and hardly even noteworthy. Oh, wait. You don't like us anyway, because we aren't like you. I'll just write you off as national chauvinists, and bail on this thread.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
acabtaxi

join:2010-01-23
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Legal mafia
expert007

join:2006-01-10
Buffalo, NY

2 recommendations

It will be mere minutes

until TK Junkmail posts his usual 'as long as you're doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about' mantra.

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

Re: It will be mere minutes

The "if you've done nothing wrong..." mantra crowd (not just those here, but outside this site as well) would do well to heed the words of Pastor Martin Niemöller:

quote:
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out.

Be careful what you wish for. You might just get it. If you're OK with the prospect of living under a fascist totalitarian state, then by all means continue to say that mantra.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)

FFH
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Tavistock NJ
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1 recommendation

AT&T being good citizen after 9/11 attacks

I just see an organization that was determined to help the US defend itself against terrorists after the 9/11 attacks. And if all the paperwork was sometimes delayed and not all the i's dotted and t's crossed, I am ok with that.
Expand your moderator at work
amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22

1 recommendation

Re: AT&T being good citizen after 9/11 attacks

said by Jim Kirk:

said by FFH:

I just see an organization that was determined to help the US defend itself against terrorists after the 9/11 attacks. And if all the paperwork was sometimes delayed and not all the i's dotted and t's crossed, I am ok with that.
In many cases the FBI never got subpoenas, and therefore broke the law. You are trolling.
What required the FBI to get supoeneas? Are you ignoring the role of 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(a)(ii)(B)?

Also, don't forget 18 U.S.C. 2702(a)(3) & (c). It recognizes telcos legitimate participation with law enforcement due to exigent circumstances.

And, that law was even broadened by the Patriot Act. Instead of a "reasonable belief" in "imminent danger," it was changed to merely "good faith belief" in danger (not imminent.).

That and how 2511 was used as the basis of so-called "immunity" goes a long way to prove that the Executive branch was acting judiciously during that period between 9/11 and amendment of FISA via the Patriot Act.

If the Executive wasn't, those laws wouldn't have been expanded and used the way they were.

Mark
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: AT&T being good citizen after 9/11 attacks

I bet you can recite that quote forward and backwards WHILE under the influence.

Since you skirted my question the last time (Here) lets ask it again and this time WITHOUT you asking me a question as a response.

said by Skippy25:

So by your train of thought what was the FISA court setup for?

Sounds like everything was in place and there was no need for this court and yet it was setup for........... ?
amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22

Re: AT&T being good citizen after 9/11 attacks

said by Skippy25:

I bet you can recite that quote forward and backwards WHILE under the influence.

Since you skirted my question the last time (Here) lets ask it again and this time WITHOUT you asking me a question as a response.

said by Skippy25:

So by your train of thought what was the FISA court setup for?

Sounds like everything was in place and there was no need for this court and yet it was setup for........... ?
1. We know FISA didn't strip the executive of all power to operate outside of FISA (if unforeseen circumstances arose). 18 USC 2511 is proof of that. As was Congress's use of that law as the basis of so-called "immunity."

2. We know events of 9/11 were unforeseen circumstances which FISA didn't accommodate. That's evidenced by Congress expanding FISA with the Patriot Act to better accommodate the Executive's actions (which Congress validated as covered by 18 USC 2511).

It seems like you want me to prove that FISA as it existed prior to 2006 wasn't sufficient. I can't prove that. All I can say is that the President and Congress felt it wasn't sufficient.

I believe it's your responsibility to prove FISA was sufficient, and that the President and Congress was wrong.

Knock yourself out. But, it doesn't change the fact that the system of balanced powers worked mostly as it's intended.

Mark
WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

1 edit

Re: AT&T being good citizen after 9/11 attacks

said by amigo_boy:

said by Skippy25:

I bet you can recite that quote forward and backwards WHILE under the influence.

Since you skirted my question the last time (Here) lets ask it again and this time WITHOUT you asking me a question as a response.

said by Skippy25:

So by your train of thought what was the FISA court setup for?

Sounds like everything was in place and there was no need for this court and yet it was setup for........... ?
1. We know FISA didn't strip the executive of all power to operate outside of FISA (if unforeseen circumstances arose). 18 USC 2511 is proof of that. As was Congress's use of that law as the basis of so-called "immunity."

2. We know events of 9/11 were unforeseen circumstances which FISA didn't accommodate. That's evidenced by Congress expanding FISA with the Patriot Act to better accommodate the Executive's actions (which Congress validated as covered by 18 USC 2511).

It seems like you want me to prove that FISA as it existed prior to 2006 wasn't sufficient. I can't prove that. All I can say is that the President and Congress felt it wasn't sufficient.

I believe it's your responsibility to prove FISA was sufficient, and that the President and Congress was wrong.

Knock yourself out. But, it doesn't change the fact that the system of balanced powers worked mostly as it's intended.

Mark
The system did NOT work as intended. The government along with corporate interests BROKE the law repeatedly. In the same spirit of TK's do things first then take care of the paperwork, I would suggest to:

1. Arrest all involved, including their supporters, since they are a danger to US constitutional principles (I have a "good belief" of that)

2. Transport them to a secret location and torture them (ahem, "robust interviewing") since waterboarding is not really torture, right ?

3. Summarily judge them in front of a military tribunal, in secret, using evidence obtained using torture and hearsay evidence, too, while we are at it

4. Execute them and fake a suicide or heart attack

5. Write a letter of apology about an unfortunate misunderstanding in case anyone finds evidence towards their post mortem exoneration

6. Blame a corporation for the misunderstanding. Since a corporation is a fictive entity, no one can be really punished, right ?

How do you like it when it applies potentially to YOU ?

vzw emp

@rr.com

Re: AT&T being good citizen after 9/11 attacks

There seems to be an unspoken belief that we can protect ourselves from every threat and that if a law gets in the way then it's okay to ignore that law. This is a very flawed belief.

If someone wants to hijack a plane, blow up a building, take a hostage, etc... they will eventually succeed. We can not stop every attack. Why? Because humans are fallible beings. Despite our best efforts to protect ourselves we will, at some point, make an error. Something will be overlooked or not communicated or not understood. This is human nature. The idiot with the bomb in his underwear proves this point. This wasn't some unknown person who slipped into this country anonymously. We had serious, credible intelligence on this man. We knew who he was, what he looked like and what his intentions were and plenty of time to stop anything he had planned. We had his own father come to us with repeated warnings of the threat he may pose. And what stopped this man? Not our intelligence community, not our law enforcement agencies, not our technology. It was his insufficient bomb-making skills.

We will never be totally safe, and that fact make's statements like TK's so frightening. There comes a point where more effort stops translating to more safety. Following our government's recent tendency to ignore or change laws they find inconvenient or obtrusive, how long is it before the government becomes harmful to everyday citizens? Sure, it may be a good idea to tap the phones of suspected terrorists. But what if we take it one step further to include all calls to and from known terrorist havens (like Afghanistan, Pakistan and Sudan)? How long will it be before we expand that to include all Islamic nations? Or maybe all international calls? Eventually we cast such a wide net that innocent people start getting caught in it.

There has to be a point at which protecting our safety is not enough to trump the law, where irregardless of the assumed threat we must follow certain steps because not doing so would be as harmful as the threat itself.

There is a quote that occasionally pops up on this site: They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

PGHammer

join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD

1 recommendation

Re: AT&T being good citizen after 9/11 attacks

However, what is REALLY frightenig is the opposing supposition (yours) that because failure is inevitable, we should not even try to protect ourselves (that we should just be meek lambs to the slaughter).

If we were sheep, the American Revolution (let alone the War of 1812) would not have happened; instead, we would have let the British walk all over us.

The law is meant to HELP protect our safety; however, there are also times where the threat is high enough the law as written isn't sufficient.

If the threat declines in severity, then Congress is certainly free to change the law back. (THat is, after all the job of Congress.)

Still, given the spread and increasing sophistication the enemy has shown, tha may never hapopen until the threat is exterminated.

However, if you have your way, THAT may not hapopen either (amd likely won't, ever, as several laws and executive orders may have to change to permit such to happen).

You sound way too much like Albus Dumbledore to be realistic; are you sure you are either human or American?

LawGuardian

@spcsdns.net

Re: AT&T being good citizen after 9/11 attacks

@ PGHammer

America, our constitution, and our lives in this country are founded on "The Rule of Law"

This does not mean, only when it is convenient, only when we don't feel threatened, only when the executive feels it applicable.

Laws protect ALL of us from unscrupulous, intrusive, and abusive government and individuals.

9/11 did exactly what the terrorists intended. Scared Americans so deeply that we began undermining the very foundation of our country in the name of "Expedience" and "Safety".

Just because I believe you are building a bomb in your basement, does NOT give me the right to break into your home, listen to your phone calls, or tap into your computer. Nor does it give Local law enforcement that right either. They have to go to a judge, present their evidence, and convince them that they be given permission to do these things, if they don't they cant submit any evidence they uncovered. This is called checks and balances.

Why should the FBI, AT&T or our executive branch be ANY different?

The FBI, and AT&T based on the article above, no matter how good the intentions, or how pressing the need, broke the law of the land, and if true should be held accountable for those actions.

I believe Ben Franklin one of our founding fathers had this covered...

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"
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Steve
I know your IP address
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Foothill Ranch, CA
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5 recommendations

Re: AT&T being good citizen after 9/11 attacks

said by FFH:

I just see an organization that was determined to help the US defend itself against terrorists after the 9/11 attacks. And if all the paperwork was sometimes delayed and not all the i's dotted and t's crossed, I am ok with that.
Here, let me fix this for you:
I do not believe in the rule of law

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: AT&T being good citizen after 9/11 attacks

Or:

"I don't believe in the Rule of Law IF the Law is annoying to our agenda."

Or maybe... "Our agenda is more important then the rule of law."
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
panglossy

join:2010-01-24
Buffalo, NY
Bingo.
President's Analyst, anyone?

dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
I remember when AT&T actually stood up for its customers rights. I remember when AT&T followed the letter of the law instead of rolling over when ever the govt. asked.

Jim Kirk
Premium
join:2005-12-09

1 edit

2 recommendations

Re: AT&T being good citizen after 9/11 attacks

said by dib22:

I remember when AT&T actually stood up for its customers rights. I remember when AT&T followed the letter of the law instead of rolling over when ever the govt. asked.
Really? When was that?

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

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00000

Re: AT&T being good citizen after 9/11 attacks

said by Jim Kirk:

Really? When was that?
In a drug induced coma fantasy.

ArrayList
netbus developer
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Re: AT&T being good citizen after 9/11 attacks

said by morbo:

said by Jim Kirk:

Really? When was that?
In a drug induced coma fantasy.
in an episode of LOST
--
sbcglobal.net speedtest result 11/11/09 - 5256kbps

dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
said by morbo:

In a drug induced coma fantasy.
it may shock you that in the past more corporations had a conscience. only a couple still exist today so i can understand how you might think it not possible.

dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
"[I]t is better that a few criminals escape than that the privacies of life of all the people be exposed to the agents of the government, who will act at their own discretion, the honest and the dishonest, unauthorized and unrestrained by courts."

»www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/08/ho···ears-ago
amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22
said by dib22:

I remember when AT&T followed the letter of the law instead of rolling over when ever the govt. asked.
But, they did follow the law.

1. The Executive Branch possesses an inherent power of surveillance.

2. The Legislative Branch is co-equal to the Executive. It cannot legislate away the Executive's power. It can only create a framework (FISA) for the Executive to operate within, without impeding the Executive's power.

3. The Executive retains the power to conduct surveillance which the framework (FISA) does not accommodate.

4. 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(a)(ii)(B) is a recognition of that power, and how FISA wasn't intended to be everything.

5. That law was the basis of so-called immunity. Even if there had been any doubt about Congress's intent concerning that law, such doubts were eliminated when Congress said telcos were immune from prosecution if they adhered to that law (only between 9/11 and passage of the Patriot Act to better provide for new circumstances).

If you don't like the law, then you should work to get it repealed. If you don't like that the balance of powers between the Executive and Legislative is imperfect, you should work to call a Constitutional Convention to rewrite the Constitution.

All I hear are people complaining that, essentially, an imperfect system *worked*.

Mark

•••••••
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cyclone_z

join:2006-06-19
Ames, IA
said by FFH:

I just see an organization that was determined to help the US defend itself against terrorists after the 9/11 attacks. And if all the paperwork was sometimes delayed and not all the i's dotted and t's crossed, I am ok with that.
I see an organization that was determined to help itself to heaps of taxpayer money (you know they were paid for this, don't you?)

I also see someone who can't RTFA.

NOVA_Guy
ObamaCare Kills Americans
Premium
join:2002-03-05
Are you also OK with the supposed paperwork not even existing?

It's not a matter of not dotting i's and crossing t's in this case. It's a matter of outright violation of the law. Those agents who played a role in this should find themselves in prison wearing some black and white stripes. And hopefully they will be readily identified and introduced to all the other prisoners as FBI agents too.

And their cronies at AT&T, as well as those from the Bush administration who helped and those from the Obama administration who are still helping, should find themselves sitting in jail for this as well. Perhaps if consequences for breaking the law were enforced there would be less lawbreaking.
--
Ted Kennedy is dead, and now so are his dreams of an impoverished enslaved America beholden to its government. Congratulations to Scott Brown for keeping the American Dream alive!

••••••
33358088
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2
said by FFH:

I just see an organization that was determined to help the US defend itself against terrorists after the 9/11 attacks. And if all the paperwork was sometimes delayed and not all the i's dotted and t's crossed, I am ok with that.
and what happens when were all terrorists
then what
MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
said by FFH:

I just see an organization that was determined to help the US defend itself against terrorists after the 9/11 attacks. And if all the paperwork was sometimes delayed and not all the i's dotted and t's crossed, I am ok with that.

I guess you'd be ok with being falsely accused, convicted, and possibly executed based on sloppy police work, lost paperwork, 'little white lies' between LEO's and prosecutors, and who know what else in the way of illegal and shoddy adherence to the law.

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out.

Feel free to add your own verse.
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doc69
Premium
join:2004-08-01
said by FFH:

I just see an organization that was determined to help the US defend itself against terrorists after the 9/11 attacks. And if all the paperwork was sometimes delayed and not all the i's dotted and t's crossed, I am ok with that.
And this is why this country is in the shit hole!!!
--
I'll keep my God, my freedom, my guns, and my money. You can keep "THE CHANGE."
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
The Ends always justify the means.

Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
AT&T and says they have a warrant for this or that....I agree....I don't mind handing it over

But I hear more and more of this story and it saddens me that I see our privacy just being wide open.

It shouldn't be like that. We do have rights that should be respected. Our privacy shouldn't be just open and shut whenever the government "feels" like it

Murdoc
Premium
join:2009-02-08
Manitowoc, WI

2 edits
Hey TKJunkMail, You mean after government false flag attacks?

And to the SpyT&T problem, I sure don't call that being good citizen breaking laws and then helping (insert 3 letter agency here) break the laws.
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winsyrstrife
River City Bounce
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Brooklyn, NY

What has to happen

before enough is enough? When do we draw the line? When is someone held accountable? When does someone acknowledge a conscience?

So vile.

•••

jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
kudos:3

Obama = Bush

No change here.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: Obama = Bush

For the 'general public', I agree.

lol!!!

Nothing new here lol about AT&T!!!

JunjiHiroma
Live Free Or Die

join:2008-03-18

Coming soon to canada this year

Soon The RCMP will be doing this soon then the headline will be:
Bell Repeatedly Helped RCMP Break Communications Law.

Free Speech and Consumer Choice is Fading fast.Soon we will have NO VOICE.

serge666

join:2004-06-07
Little Falls, NJ

Free Speech Dead

soon? nope, we don't have a voice NOW.

Jan. 21: Prof. Jonathan Turley discusses whether the Supreme Court decision on special interests will split the free speech community and lead to bad government.
»www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/···34984956

JunjiHiroma
Live Free Or Die

join:2008-03-18

Re: Free Speech Dead

I think this all leads from cass sunstiens (Obama's info Czar) report where America should HAVE no free speech on the web and truthers & gun owners be locked up.

quote:
"A system of limitless individual choices, with respect to communications, is not necessarily in the interest of citizenship and self-government," he wrote. "Democratic efforts to reduce the resulting problems ought not be rejected in freedom's name."
What happens in the states and UK ,happens in Canada shortly after.
amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America

1 recommendation

broken

Breaking the laws in order to enforce them is wrong.

Ends don't justify means.

Big brother loves you.

•••••

Camaro
Question everything
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Westfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
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Here we go

"developing systems that would not only hand over data on the initial target, but entire "communities of interest" that is very scary, so instead of plain old racial profiling now we are going to be profiling every US citizen based on where we surf,who we talk to,looks like orwell's book's are coming true.On a side note it seems are government is bent on pissing us off but they seem to forget what happened in the 1700's,we kicked the British out and if this keeps up i think it's time for a reboot of our great govt.

••••••

spamd
Premium
join:2001-04-22
Cherry Valley, IL

This guy will some how make it legal and ok.

John Yoo

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo

»www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-j···oo-pt--1

»www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-j···oo-pt--2
--
When everything is coming your way, you are in the wrong lane.

Ual

@bellsouth.net

Re: This guy will some how make it legal and ok.

I saw an interview with that guy. They asked him what he did, and he said he defined what torture was. They asked him - "But we had a treaty that said we wouldn't torture, and yet torture wasn't defined?" And Yoo said tortured wasn't allowed under the treaty, but torture had never been defined before, nobody had laid out what torture was. They then asked him - if torture hadn't been defined - how did we charge people with it decades ago? Yoo then replied - "Well, they clearly stepped over the line into torture." Basically he stood by the notion whatever he said was ok to do was completely legal, but you know if any of it had been done to him he'd have considered it torture.
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WhatNow
Premium
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

Put the party that did it back in power

It happened in the past 8 years but everyone want to kick the current crowd out. Have we gone so far down the road that even if it is technically legal you should not do it because it is wrong. It is strange the the party that wraps itself in the flag and shouts law and order has corrupted itself because it is inconvenient to follow the law or work to change it.

It all boils down to a country that was run by control freaks. The biggest problem with that mentality is how many people are forced to go along or lose everything if they don't. Wait until one of you have ICE storm troopers enter your residence and immediately handcuff you before they ask the first question because they have not done their homework. The only agent that acted like their mistake was not my fault was an older seasoned agent.

backfeed
is giving feedback

join:2002-12-16
Peru, IN

Surprised?

Is this really a surprise?
bgraham

join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY

2 edits

Re: Surprised?

How can anyone think that a large phone company would want to piss off the government.

They will probably get a few bonus points for working hand in hand with the FBI and that won't be forgotten during their next meeting with the FCC, when the telco's want something like additional bogus charges added to their bills. Six months from now we might see a $1.99 Homeland Security Charge added.
MTU
Premium
join:2005-02-15
San Luis Obispo, CA

Re: Surprised?

Qwest refused to go along with the NSA data mining.

Immediately thereafter, the SEC went after the Qwest CEO and charged he and other Qwest officers with civil 'fraud'. They payed a fine. But the message was obvious.

That's the same SEC that, at the same time, was ignoring repeated warnings on Madoff's scams, and ignoring the multiplicity of Wall Street violations of SEC regs., 'cause it fit the then admins. glowing agenda.

Silencing a squeaky wheel kinda like that former NY Attorney General, Elliot Spitzer, who was leading the charge and in a multi-state AG's investigations into the home-loan frauds (during the lead-in to the bubble & crash). Very unpopular with the then admin. as it went against the push for 'everyone' to buy a home (and the profits for the same giant banks we bailed out)

Spitzer & other states AG's were ready to pounce when a magically timed surveillance of Spitzer's extramarital paid-for-sex removed him, and his lead role. The investigation stopped, subprime loans burst ahead, the rest is history.

t3ln3t

@vericenter.com

Yeah, Yeah ... down with Ma' Bell anyways!

Aside from all the legal mumbo-jumbo...
This type of thing is also a violation of at&t's ethical standards of doing buisness!
Every manager is required to review and sign a compliance document on this stuff. I say, corporate lawyers should be looking for who told the FBI how to circumvent 'the process' and not only fire them, but press criminal charges!

This cannot be tolerated! A buisness like at&t is held to a standard... even if it is a standard they wrote up for themselves. Breaking it, is NOT an option!

I know nothing will come of it, but it's yet another reason to keep my communications off at&t's netbroken (because for it to be a network, it has to work...)

Death to Ma' Bell!
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joebarnhart
Paxio evangelist

join:2005-12-15
Santa Clara, CA

I think I have a solution...

So AT&T is busy helping the government spy on citizens without any oversight. But they only provide such help on their own network. So...

I'm going to boycott AT&T as my phone provider and encourage anyone else concerned with liberty to do the same. If we can't influence our own government, maybe we can influence AT&T.

ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN

Compromised Country

Who, the US government breaking the law? Bah, Never.

kcpistol
Premium
join:2009-03-29
Independence, MO

Haven't we seen this before?

"FROST: So what in a sense, you're saying is that there are certain situations, ... where the president can decide that it's in the best interests of the nation or something, and do something illegal.

NIXON: Well, when the president does it that means that it is not illegal.

FROST: By definition.

NIXON: Exactly. Exactly."

kcpistol
Premium
join:2009-03-29
Independence, MO

Re: Haven't we seen this before?

To follow up:
"FROST: But when you said, ... "If the president orders it, that makes it legal", as it were: Is the president in that sense: is there anything in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights that suggests the president is that far of a sovereign, that far above the law?

NIXON: No, there isn't. There's nothing specific that the Constitution contemplates in that respect. I haven't read every word, every jot and every title, but I do know this: That it has been, however, argued that as far as a president is concerned, that in war time, a president does have certain extraordinary powers which would make acts that would otherwise be unlawful, lawful if undertaken for the purpose of preserving the nation and the Constitution, which is essential for the rights we're all talking about."

What I think we can get from this is that if we want to keep the President/Executive branch lawful we have to be *way* more vigilant in denying the President the fig-leaf of there being a "war".

By definition up to the 50's the "war on terror" is not a traditional "war". How will we ever win? How will we ever know we have won? How can any objective person prove it? Can Al-Qaida surrender? Would that do it?

Or is this a case where we have we always been at war with Eastasia?

atuarre
Here come the drums
Premium
join:2004-02-14
Conroe, TX

Re

The interesting thing is a company can violate your privacy and get a way with it, but you violate the privacy of any company and see if you don't end up facing jail time.
acabtaxi

join:2010-01-23
Elk City, OK

Business calls are blocked by federal law enforcement

Please take a look at this story and no taxicab service in the world should ever have to go through this kind of abuse. My phone calls were blocked to destroy my business. I need help getting this story in the spotlight and I believe it might be the worst case of phone abuse by law enforcement on record.

»www.topix.com/forum/city/elk-cit···TU1EPLCG

www.killacab.blogspot.com

My numbers are 580-821-ACAB [2222] 580-225-TAXI [8294] 347-TAXI-GUY 724-VAN-TAXI
Stumbles

join:2002-12-17
Port Saint Lucie, FL
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

Crib notes would also work.

I fully support AT&T's support of our countries efforts to ferret out all the commie pinko terrorists in this country. I applaud their brilliant, no... astounding insight to circumvent the technological pitfalls of using any technological medium to request customer phone data. I must admit, I would NEVAR had considered a Post-It note. I also applaud the FBI's willingness to do ANYTHING to ensure my safety... they're such sweethearts.
Mordhem
Love it, Hate it.

join:2003-07-10
Baltimore, MD

1 edit

More proof that our country is becoming more corrupt is all

This just more proof that our government is slowly growing ever so more corrupt. this is a very bad sign for us to come in the future. I truly believe that with in 70 year or less that people will start taking notice that our government has become more corrupt that that of the Soviet union, but by then it will be to late & everything this country was founded upon will have been trashed to greedy corporate elites, who will rule our country and have us enslaved by them.

The thing is capitalism is great and its all wonderful in theory & on paper but the truth is that like many other Isms its flawed. What i'm saying is like socialism & Communism, our ism of capitalism has a sad but true realism of a flaw & that flaw is us people. They are all great on paper but Greed destroys all things good.

Take communism for instance (»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism)

Our country is so rich it be great because everyone in the country would have everything they could think of, but the problem is greed. No one wants to be equal, its what made the race of men what we are to day. What I'm talking about is the fact is we got to best our fellow man. So when with any system you have positions of power it will fail, because of greed. People will always abuse power & thats what will be our downfall of a people & a continued plague on our earth.

Capitalism is great when it starts off when everyone is on even ground but as it grows like in to day when you have now corporations that actually rival our goverment in power & money you start to have problems. Now the rule of capitalism is that you have rivals but the problem is that as everything grows like in a war things can start to get one sided until their is a point that no one else can revival them because they had such a head start. Now think about it, does anyone here have enuff cash to start a competitor to any of the top 10 major corporations? No so no rivals & of course these giants are all motivated by greed so of course they talk to each other and say hey look we got these people but we can all have a big bite of the pie, how? We will just price fix & we will all continue to raise our prices until the people of america are all the slaves to our prices and our capitalism. Really just take some time to think about what I'm saying & you will figure it out. Fact is if you thought you was free in this government, I'm sorry for you because that fact is that in any type of government that has a power structurer of any sort, will always fail. We Americans have been brainwashed in to thinking we are a democracy & we are free when actually we are about as free as every other person in the world. Hell our system is not new, all we did is took the ideas of Rome from back in its day & its called a republic, not a Democracy & unless we do something it will never change, what makes us more free then say people in the UK anyways? or hell even in a communist type government? Is it because our government tells us we are free? Yea, thats more like it.

With laws you can't be free, unless we made the laws our selves. Thats why I want to put this forward to everyone!

Do you want to be free? Do you want real change? How about we all say f*** all of the isms of the world, All of them!! Yep thats right all of them & lets say we start over new & truly free! We wont need no president, we will instead represent out selves & for the idiots I'm not talking about anarchy simply because that will never work, haha.

What am i talking about?? Democracy!! Lets now go with that thing we always talk about, hell we have the technology now & nothings stopping us now. In the past it was impracticable but with computers its becoming a option.

Lets become a full blown Democracy & push the reset button.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

Or hell may be a Demarchy

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demarchy

Say no to the Isms!!!