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Comments on news posted 2010-02-04 14:35:41: The other day we noted how Qwest seems to be ramping up a program whereby they kick users off the Qwest network if they receive multiple DMCA warnings. ..



longstreet

join:2004-11-14
Plano, TX

1 edit

sigh

People getting booted are idiots. Just use an encrypted VPN to transfer, problem solved.

Can't content cop the P2P people when you can't decrypt what they are sending over your network.

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

Corporate law: guilty until proven innocent!

I hope the copyright weasels out smart themselves and disconnect one of our lawmakers on trumped up charges. Once Qwest pisses off the right person, Qwest's current CEO might find they are on the way to the slammer or at least being interviewed by a Congressional Committee on CSPN. Let the copyright control agency explain how they identified the victim of the witch hunt.


BBBanditRuR
Dingbits

join:2009-06-02
Parachute, CO
Reviews:
·Comcast
Yup. Like I'd mentioned before, they are within their rights to boot you off; it is their network. My stance is, that is ok, but unless you like losing customers and a bad reputation, implementing a good investigative process prior to termination is "good for business" for both parties.


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

An ISP can double check Ip connections

It's still unbelievable that ISPs are now suspending the accounts of paying customers based entirely on the say so of unaccountable shadow companies like BayTSP
Who says that is all they do? They can double check any users list of IP connections to see where they went and when. They don't just have to depend entirely on some 3rd party company to make a decision.


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

3 edits
Show me that they do this. Besides not even being technically plausible, the DMCA warning letter process has traditionally not done this. Where is your evidence? Based on the CNET piece (which is all we have to go on because Qwest won't talk and BayTSP exists in the dark), Qwest did their investigation after CNET began asking questions:
»news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-10444···1_3-0-20
Paradiso, a technical recruiter who works out of her home near Pueblo, Colo., would eventually be cleared. Last week, Qwest had a technician investigate--after CNET began making inquiries--and he discovered that her network had been compromised, according to Monica Martinez, a Qwest spokeswoman. So Paradiso is off the hook, but she wants to know what would have happened had she not gone to the media. There was no independent third party to hear her complaint. There was no one to advocate for her.


TSI Gabe
Router of Packets
Premium,VIP
join:2007-01-03
Gatineau, QC
kudos:7
reply to FFH5
As a Network Admin of a decent size ISP, I can tell you that's practically impossible. Millions and Millions of new connections are made every second, tracking all of them would cost a fortune, not to mention a major privacy concern.


BBBanditRuR
Dingbits

join:2009-06-02
Parachute, CO
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to FFH5
The company might not justify "investigating" as worthwhile spending. They might perceive it as easier (and cheaper) to just send the warning out and ask questions later. Although, as the CNET article explains, that isn't always a good idea. Backlash is bad for business.


RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
reply to FFH5
said by FFH5:

It's still unbelievable that ISPs are now suspending the accounts of paying customers based entirely on the say so of unaccountable shadow companies like BayTSP
Who says that is all they do? They can double check any users list of IP connections to see where they went and when. They don't just have to depend entirely on some 3rd party company to make a decision.
All checking where the user's IPN is connecting to will show other peer's IPN. There is, of course, periodic connections to the Torrent Server (to refresh the list of peers with parts of the file you want). There is nothing associated with the IPN list to show WHAT was being exchanged (to get that you need to be monitoring the actual piece exchange). IOW, if I am running a Torrent Client, all the IPN list shows is that I am exchanging files with other peers not WHAT files.


RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

1 recommendation

reply to longstreet

Re: sigh

said by longstreet:

People getting booted are idiots. Just use an encrypted VPN to transfer, problem solved.

Can't content cop the P2P people when you can't decrypt what they are sending over your network.
Using a VPN to do the transfer still exposes your IPN to the Peers in the session (some of whom are the BayTCP spies working for the Media Companies). All this does is prevent the ISP from knowing what is being transferred.

camo281

join:2004-06-09
Parker, CO

A suspension and then what?

first, let me say that I'm a long time member/troll but this is my first time ever posting

I have a friend that uses qwest dsl and has his account suspended for using bit torrent

He was in the middle of using xbox live when his Internet connection shut off. After doing the standard modem shut down and router restart and his Internet connection didn't return, he called qwest. What they told him was that they had recieved a complain from NBC/Uniersal saying that his ip address was logged after downloading several episodes of Curb Your Enthusiasm torrents.

To make a long story short, after more than an hour on the phone and a whole lot of begging to keep his Internet connection (qwest is the only available provider in his apartment complex) they turned it back on and he hasn't used BT since.

Qwest was unclear about any actions they would take if they received another conplaint but one would assume they would terminate service perminantly and possibly take further legal action.


longstreet

join:2004-11-14
Plano, TX
reply to RARPSL

Re: sigh

Don't trade with people you don't know, simple as that. If I were going to share, it would only be to someone I know and only over a VPN via a P2P medium that doesn't make my IP available.

Again, if you are smart, there are ways around it.


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to TSI Gabe

Re: An ISP can double check Ip connections

said by TSI Gabe:

As a Network Admin of a decent size ISP, I can tell you that's practically impossible. Millions and Millions of new connections are made every second, tracking all of them would cost a fortune, not to mention a major privacy concern.
and given the current hardware limitations, i could only imagine what kind of box it would take. ick.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to longstreet

Re: sigh

"Given the popularity of downloading television shows via BitTorrent, you would think that Verizon or Qwest users would enjoy being informed about what kind of specific behavior they need to avoid to retain their broadband service, or what kind of protections or independent oversight processes are in place to prevent false accusations. We asked Qwest for a little more detail on their new anti-piracy effort, but the carrier didn't much feel like talking."

Karl states that people would enjoy being informed about what behavior they need to avoid? - These people already know. It's pretty clear that P2P transfers of TV shows and movies is against the TOS... so, the way I see it, they already know. So the statement made by Karl is about the same that comes out of the rear of a donkey's butt.

I do agree that false accusations need to be handled better.. however, from what I know of already, these people are being warned a few times before this happens. What else do they need? A representative to come to their house and talk to them personally in a 4th grade level?

I don't think it's the job of the ISP to school end users on the rules of right and wrong.. that's up to the end user to know. Ignorance of the law doesn't get you a free day in court, so I don't believe that it should apply to you in other aspects of your life. We all have the right to seek out information on what affects our lives.. the fact remains that most people don't, OR, are just wanting to be ignorant to the facts.. plausible deniability doesn't work.

And the fact that people would have to use a VPN to avoid what they know is already wrong just validates the fact that these people know they're breaking rules in the first place.


Vumes

join:2009-01-04
Beaverton, OR
reply to RARPSL
said by RARPSL:

said by longstreet:

People getting booted are idiots. Just use an encrypted VPN to transfer, problem solved.

Can't content cop the P2P people when you can't decrypt what they are sending over your network.
Using a VPN to do the transfer still exposes your IPN to the Peers in the session (some of whom are the BayTCP spies working for the Media Companies). All this does is prevent the ISP from knowing what is being transferred.
Exactly, so if they don't know what you're transferring, they really have proof of nothing. But as stated before, guilty, until proven innocent.


Caladus

join:2009-07-01
Beaverton, OR

Public wifi?

This is all very annoying. So are ISP's going to shut down access to libraries and colleges that have anonymous users siphoning high speed access?

Because we all now that's what alot of people do. Can't stop that can ya?

My local library has a 100+ Megabit line, up and down. Party on. Just use public access for the time being. And if necessary, spoof your MAC addy so the can't track you that way, if they even pay attention. Way too much work for a public employee.

Colleges are more locked down, but are much the same.

*sigh* Guess only the residential lines are in danger.


Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA
reply to Vumes

Re: sigh

said by Vumes:

said by RARPSL:

said by longstreet:

People getting booted are idiots. Just use an encrypted VPN to transfer, problem solved.

Can't content cop the P2P people when you can't decrypt what they are sending over your network.
Using a VPN to do the transfer still exposes your IPN to the Peers in the session (some of whom are the BayTCP spies working for the Media Companies). All this does is prevent the ISP from knowing what is being transferred.
Exactly, so if they don't know what you're transferring, they really have proof of nothing. But as stated before, guilty, until proven innocent.
Just going by the way they are acting now, them not knowing exactly what you are downloading probably won't stop them.

They will just send you a vague letter referring to "illegal materials, etc..."


ironwalker
World Renowned
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-31
Keansburg, NJ
reply to Caladus

Re: Public wifi?

There a quite a few ways to get content without uploading to get it, why would anyone use BT system is beyond me....just because alot of folks use it doesn't make it safe.
It is a wide open system.


Camaro
Question everything
Premium
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
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reply to Caladus
I actually work on a city wide network, schools, libraries fire stations, etc. and we have a free city wifi (not complete it's the main bosses pet project) and we have everything filtered it's the law if receive money from e-rate which most places like this do.After some little shit in the schools figured out a proxy they locked down the whole network very tight good old fortiguard, and they keep a running filter list in my office so when they see something bam blocked forever and all vpn connections have to be approved by the big boss.


Caladus

join:2009-07-01
Beaverton, OR
That's cool actually, I was certain they took some measures but wasn't sure how far they went.

At the moment, it seems the networks over here aren't locked down so crazy. I can run any client I want and it works just fine and downloads/uploads at full speeds(not that I would do anything illegal, natch).

I don't use VPN, kinda annoying and pointless to me, if you're needing that kind of security maybe you shouldn't be doing what you're doing.

Do you block MAC addresses, or use accounts?

At our local library, they have accounts linked to our cards(anybody can get a library card), but you could also use the anonymous logins they provide.


Caladus

join:2009-07-01
Beaverton, OR
reply to ironwalker
Most torrent sites offer direct http downloads now too so again, why use BT where you're supposed to share(like anybody really does anyhow).


Camaro
Question everything
Premium
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to Caladus
It's filtered by ip,when we see a no no ip that person is trying to connect to we just block the whole range,it has caused a big problem for teachers trying to access teaching material for the kids.Forums,hulu,facebook, messengers all are blocked.You need a vpn to access our network if you need to work from home or just to keep updated on the network status.

and yes everyone is on our domain


longstreet

join:2004-11-14
Plano, TX
reply to Bill Neilson

Re: sigh

No ISP is going to send you a vague letter when you use a VPN and you trade with a friend.

It's encrypted and your ISP doesn't have the key.

The whole reason people are getting disconnected is because they are dumb.

There isn't really much else to discuss.

Use an encrypted VPN = win