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Comments on news posted 2010-03-09 08:55:39: AT&T's first foray into the business of offering Android-based phones isn't going particularly well, and it's pretty clear the company's general dislike of Google for their positions on competition, network neutrality and open access is spilling over.. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next
theeinstein
Premium
join:2003-07-31
Fernandina Beach, FL

1 edit

disgusting

Well at least AT&T will never let you down.. If there was ever a doubt they are now worse than Big Red.. the "globe" is refereed to as the "death star" and they live up to it!

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4

Re: disgusting

I will admit this is pretty freaking weak. It ruins the whole idea of Android.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

Re: disgusting

said by ptrowski:

I will admit this is pretty freaking weak. It ruins the whole idea of Android.
Yea.. this is a DINO phone.. Droid In Name Only.

I just find it really funny that they removed GOOGLE of all things and put Yahoo on it.. hrmmmmmm..
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: disgusting

Why? It was bound to happen. After all ATT has they're partnership with Yahoo! Not with Google.

If they used Yahoo! they could tie pretty much anything to this phone without a problem, especially since the OS is open source and free to use anyway they want.
--
www.twopugsbrand.com ONLINE STORE NOW ONLINE! up to 50% off SRP of Happy Tails Spa products.

Dread
On course
Premium
join:2005-02-28
Bronx, NY
kudos:8
Yup working as intended.

I find it funny that there is no Google search on the device despite being a on Android OS, way to fail AT&T
--
Assuming Direct Control.
theeinstein
Premium
join:2003-07-31
Fernandina Beach, FL

Re: disgusting

Its pretty sad that Google even allows it.. It proves that even they will bend over to the dollar!
NeoandGeo

join:2003-05-10
Harrison, TN

Re: disgusting

If they didn't allow it, it would look bad on them.
ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL
said by theeinstein:

Its pretty sad that Google even allows it.. It proves that even they will bend over to the dollar!
Google released Android as open source software, so it can be modified at will by anyone who wants to use it. So AT&T took Android, crippled the hell out of it, and handed it to Moto to load onto the Backflip. Google had no say in the matter.

S_engineer
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

Re: disgusting

It really doesn't matter....everyone knew this would be the result once AT&T got a hold of it so this should be no surprise.
The only real surprise here is that people thought that AT&T would allow an open source platform onto thier network.
--
BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils!

KodiacZiller
Premium
join:2008-09-04
73368
kudos:2
said by ISurfTooMuch:

said by theeinstein:

Its pretty sad that Google even allows it.. It proves that even they will bend over to the dollar!
Google released Android as open source software, so it can be modified at will by anyone who wants to use it. So AT&T took Android, crippled the hell out of it, and handed it to Moto to load onto the Backflip. Google had no say in the matter.
I'm no IP lawyer, but Android appears to be somewhat dual-licensed. What I mean is that it runs the Linux kernel and the kernel is licensed under the GPL, which means any modifications must, by law, be released as open source. However, the Google side of the OS (the more user-level stuff) is mostly licensed under the Apache license which does allow a company to modify the source for proprietary reasons (much like the BSD license which is what allowed Apple to take BSD and modify it without giving back). So, really, I guess we can blame Google for releasing much of Android under a license that is not copyleft friendly.

At any rate, I think it's a matter of time before this device is hacked by reverse engineers.
--
Getting people to stop using windows is more or less the same as trying to get people to stop smoking tobacco products. They dont want to change; they are happy with slowly dying inside. -- munky99999

jinco

@comcast.net
Its pretty sad that Google even allows it.. It proves that even they will bend over to the dollar!

thats where you are wrong at that only shows what you think you know, android is a OPEN SOURCE program there for att can do what it wants to it, it show how much greater android is over the iphone. Android= America, Iphone= Iraq (pre-war)

elios

join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO
doesnt that kinda defeat the point of Android?
makes me wonder if it even has the google maps GPS ap

C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

Re: disgusting

said by elios:

doesnt that kinda defeat the point of Android?
makes me wonder if it even has the google maps GPS ap
and not have an opportunity to charge you an extra $10/month for AT&T's own "navigator" service? surely, you can't be serious.
--
Front Line Force Fortress Forever

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by theeinstein:

Well at least AT&T will never let you down.. If there was ever a doubt they are now worse than Big Red.. the "globe" is refereed to as the "death star" and they live up to it!
This is why Apple & AT&T were such a good fit. Both companies are pathologically controlling and want things their way, no matter what the customer may want. I am surprised that AT&T even let Android phones on their system - even a crippled version of it.

djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO

3 edits

1 recommendation

Re: disgusting

said by FFH5:

This is why Apple & AT&T were such a good fit. Both companies are pathologically controlling and want things their way, no matter what the customer may want.
Prior to the iPhone, I wouldn't agree with this statement. As a Cingular customer one of the things I've liked most about their service was that all the phones I got were pretty much unencumbered. My 3650 wasn't even locked. The tethering features weren't hacked out of my 3650, V559, HTC 3125, blackjack, or HTC 8595. If I wanted my own ringtones I simply put them on my phones. If I wanted pictures out of the phones, I'd do a simple OBEX exchange. Application installs were always unrestricted. There was some AT&T branding stuff loaded in, but it rarely got in my way. Being used to this freedom, I wouldn't touch Verizon with a ten foot pole.

Things like locking billing rates to the type of phone you insert your SIM into didn't appear until after the iPhone launch. This stuff about cutting Google out of Android is a big step in the wrong direction for them.

--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

Re: disgusting

You wouldn't agree, not even in the slightest?

My biggest problem with at&t pre-iPhone was that every phone had that dang death-star button on it that you couldn't de-activate.. every time I hit it, I got charged for data, like it or not. Couldn't remove the media mall or a couple other pay per use apps.. When I called to block them, they said I couldn't.

I will say, thank god the iPhone doesn't have that stuff on it.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: disgusting

I had removed data and sms/mms from all my devices.
Later on with the Tilt, I enabled PPU and used MoDaCo Nodata.

As a 'cheap' hack, all you had to do was change the APN so that data wouldn't be used.

woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA

1 recommendation

hmmmm....

Just don't buy the fricking phone.........
--
BlooMe
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Re: hmmmm....

But that provides one less thing to whine about on the front page.

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

Re: hmmmm....

said by openbox9:

But that provides one less thing to whine about on the front page.
C'mon. AT&T having the customer-numb balls to put out a locked-down Android HAS TO BE FRONT-PAGE NEWS.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Tweet! Tweet! -- »twitter.com/funchords
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: hmmmm....

Is this sarcasm Robb? This post seems to contradict your response to sonicmerlin See Profile below. AT&T has the choice to whatever it wishes with Android so long as it abides by the license. Admittedly, I know little about Android and the other Android offerings. Don't other Android devices need to be rooted to have full "open" access? Can this device not be rooted?

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

Re: hmmmm....

said by openbox9:

Is this sarcasm Robb? This post seems to contradict your response to sonicmerlin See Profile below. AT&T has the choice to whatever it wishes with Android so long as it abides by the license.
...and I have the choice to point and laugh. It is newsworthy, but I don't think anyone should force anyone to do anything.
said by openbox9:

Admittedly, I know little about Android and the other Android offerings. Don't other Android devices need to be rooted to have full "open" access? Can this device not be rooted?
No, I can load whatever from whatever. It doesn't have to be approved by anyone.

What I don't have out-of-the-box is root access. And while I can get that quite easily, I can understand why these guys don't want to support users who root and then subsequently have problems due to the escalated privileges. There are no applications that require root (for example, I tether on an unrooted phone).
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Tweet! Tweet! -- »twitter.com/funchords
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: hmmmm....

Fair enough...although I don't believe anyone mentioned that this isn't newsworthy.

FWIW, this thread started from the idea that if you don't like the limitations, don't buy the product. No different than many other threads of endless complaining about a limited product/service. Choice is nice.
itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
Yet Verizon's nationwide data outage last week was nowhere to be found on BBR.....
mAlfunkti0n

join:2003-12-16
Loveland, OH

Re: hmmmm....

It must have been so bad I didn't that my life stopped .. because for a nationwide outage I heard nothing about it, nor noticed any issue on my Droid, and I use data CONSTANTLY. I do that pretty much to just suck up as much as I can from Verizon.

I'm no mouthpiece for VZ, but my service with them has been far better than the Death Star, not to mention my Droid wasn't locked out like this ... nor is my wife's Droid Eris.

Gbcue
Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
said by itguy05:

Yet Verizon's nationwide data outage last week was nowhere to be found on BBR.....
I submitted it as news but Karl didn't post it.
--
My Blog 2.0

Robotics
See You On The Dark Side
Premium
join:2003-10-23
Louisa, VA
Yeah interesting huh? I think I was the only one that posted about the incident, and still didn't get but a few responses.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:42

1 edit
said by itguy05:

Yet Verizon's nationwide data outage last week was nowhere to be found on BBR.....
I'm not quite sure what's being inferred here. That we're hard on AT&T and easy on Verizon? That's pretty funny if you've seen how hard we smack Verizon when they make poor decisions. Verizon stories concerning their stubbornness in the face of open wireless evolution also get posted frequently.

The Verizon outage was nowhere to be found because by the time other stories had been written and posted that morning, the outage was resolved.

And, yes, AT&T's first foray into Android being locked down is newsworthy.
Big Dawg 23

join:2002-03-27
Northfield, MN

Re: hmmmm....

Blackberry outages either on Verizon or others has become way to often. This is one reason I dumped my Tour for a Droid. The only app that I had to Superuser my phone for was Wireless Tether. However, wireless tether is still not working correctly on some Droids and only gets 20K up/down.

In the end many who buy a Android phones will modify them. If not already Rooted it will be soon and result in new ROM's.
NeoandGeo

join:2003-05-10
Harrison, TN
Many would probably buy thinking that it is open because that is all they know about the Android platform.

AT&T should have a warning that the phone is more akin to a Razr than a smartphone.

sitdownandsh

@suddenlink.net
Yeah, just sit down and shut up! Discussion is dissent! If than fallacy! Ad hominem! Long live our corporate overlords!

Rickez
Goinginsane

join:2000-09-02
Three Rivers, MA
I am glad this is here as I almost took these phones and updated my contract. I have now decided to explore the market a little bit more.
--
Got a one way ticket, going the wrong way....
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

Stuff

My hope is that once Android reaches a large enough market share of the smartphone market Google will pull in the reigns and play hardball with the carriers, forcing them to use only an open, Google approved version, in the same way Microsoft and Apple do with their OS's.

Also I really, really wish SBC had never merged with AT&T. Once you get past 4 competitors in any market you start to have some real price competition and innovation. A 5th nation-wide competitor would work wonders for our industry. Heck, if MCI still existed and we had 6 competitors, the industry would look completely different than it does now.

•••••••••

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

1 recommendation

Ok so...?

This clearly isn't an ideal phone for people like us then. Dismiss this phone and find a different one.
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

Steve B
Premium
join:2004-08-02
Auburn, WA

Well....

I did some more digging and it appears (I haven't seen proof yet) that Google search may not have been removed after all. Someone mentioned the 'default' was changed to yahoo and that you could change it back to Google at anytime. Still, what AT&T is doing is crazy.

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA

1 edit

its

AN ABOMINATION!

you can't add 3rd party(non-market) applications... it makes me sick to think this shares the same OS as my g1. at&t has mommy daddy issues.

Nhatters

join:2004-01-24
Oklahoma City, OK

When will they learn?

Good going, AT&T.
k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

Rings a certain familiarity

Odd, this devices sounds just like another smartphone device.

I believe it was made by some company that uses a fruit as their symbol...but who cares about them .

All sarcasm aside:
Here is the real kicker though - the more restrictions you put on a device or software the faster someone will figure a way around it. So, you pay your R&D, what - millions of dollars and a couple of years to cripple the phone when someone will turn around and remove the restrictions in probably a months time.
I don't think companies will ever get "it".
Don't think so? Do you think DRM has stopped piracy? The only thing piracy has done is prevent honest consumers from making copies for themselves.
duranr

join:2006-10-14
Leonia, NJ

Bah...

For all the talk about Open handsets, and giving the Customer "Choice;" at&t turns around and outputs this garbage.

I'd like my iPhone tethering now, please.

Gbcue
Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: Bah...

said by duranr:

I'd like my iPhone tethering now, please.
That's so summer 2009.
--
My Blog 2.0

gball
Master Yoda
Premium
join:2000-11-28
South Bend, IN

Whats surprising is

that anyone is actually surprised by this!
ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

Re: Whats surprising is

said by gball:

that anyone is actually surprised by this!
QFT.

El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4

Not Surprised

Given AT&T's record with the iPhone this behavior doesn't reall surprise me.

What does surprise me, is the lack of consumer revolt.
--
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

••••••

ztmike
Mark for moderation
Premium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN

screw atat

T Mobile ftw

Gbcue
Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: screw atat

said by ztmike:

T Mobile ftw
Accepted Answer.
--
My Blog 2.0
tazCO

join:2004-01-14
Indian Hills, CO

OS

Can this device just be wiped and reinstalled with a fresh os? I already talked to AT&T about getting out of my contract. It'll be worth the $100!

asdfghjklzx5
Premium
join:2004-05-03
kudos:1

Re: OS

said by tazCO:

Can this device just be wiped and reinstalled with a fresh os? I already talked to AT&T about getting out of my contract. It'll be worth the $100!
It depends on weather or not the bootloader comes locked. The U.S. version of the Motorola Droid, the bootloader is not locked so third party ROMs exist, but in the European version of the droid has a locked bootloader and so far no one has been able to crack it.

Given this phone is from Motorola and At&T is distributing it, I would bet that the answer to your question is....no.


--
"Ubuntu protects you from malware in the same way that a Geo protects you from carjackers." -Anonymous

DataDoc
My avatar looks like me, if I was 2D.
Premium
join:2000-05-14
Martinsburg, WV

I'm glad their signal is so weak in my area

so I don't even have to consider them again.
chsteiger
Premium
join:2003-10-03
Pasadena, TX

What about Android is "Open" Anyway?

Everyone that I know that an Android phone is at the mercy of the cell phone provider (TMO, VZ, ect) for upgrades and so forth... along with some settings... I know Google marketed Android as "Open", but it seems very far from open if you ask me. So if AT&T wants to preinstall branded apps, how is that any different then any other carrier?

Nhatters

join:2004-01-24
Oklahoma City, OK

Re: What about Android is "Open" Anyway?

As far as I know, this one doesn't have the option to install third party apps from unknown sources. Not to mention there aren't really any restrictions in the app store, unlike Apple (see blockage of Google Voice and crippling of Skype). There's also a rooting community with some developers receiving assistant from Google itself.
ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL
said by chsteiger:

Everyone that I know that an Android phone is at the mercy of the cell phone provider (TMO, VZ, ect) for upgrades and so forth... along with some settings... I know Google marketed Android as "Open", but it seems very far from open if you ask me. So if AT&T wants to preinstall branded apps, how is that any different then any other carrier?
Android is open in the sense that anyone can take the OS and customize it to their liking. And that's exactly what AT&T and Moto have done. They modded Android to be as restrictive as they wanted.

tmh

@qwest.net

Enough whining already

It's an Android phone. That means it can be hacked. What's the progress toward rooting this device?

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

This is the way of the future....unfortunately

This is what is being done for not only handsets, but PCs as well. Try to get an unsigned application installed on Windows 7 or 64 bit Vista.
narunet

join:2004-08-23
Auburn, WA

Re: This is the way of the future....unfortunately

That's drivers only. That has nothing to do with running an application.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: This is the way of the future....unfortunately

Well, give it a while. Soon enough, apps (outside of applets) will require some form of signing/registration - at least those that run on the OS. Applets (apps that run on a virtual platform) will probably be immune, as they require the App/platform to exist, which needs to be registered.

Drivers are a necessity, as they're directly tied to the OS. I remember writing code for an RS-232 device. A poorly handled interrupt could lock the OS back then.
--
Canada = Hollywood North
pika2000

join:2005-10-13
Seattle, WA
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

Blame it on Motorola.

Yeah, AT&T sux, and it's easy to blame them, but Motorola is the one that made the backflip, the one that made a deal with AT&T, the one that allowed AT&T to rape the phone. Even funnier, Apple haters manage to blame Apple on this.

AT&T raping phone firmware is not new. They've been doing it from the get go to any of their branded phones. Nobody's stopping Motorola to release an Android phone with 850 UMTS band support free from AT&T. Motorola could've said GTFO to AT&T. But no, they bend over and took AT&T's offer. Look at Nokia E71x, AT&T's junk. Nokia themselves still release an untouched E71. Motorola could've easily done the same thing, nobody's stopping them. Motorola is a greedy wuss, plain and simple.

Again, AT&T doesn't make the backflip, Motorola did. AT&T modifying firmware is not new, it's their MO. It's up to the manufactures to man up and tell wireless carriers to GTFO.

SSidlov
Other Things On My Mind
Premium
join:2000-03-03
Pompton Lakes, NJ

Re: Blame it on Motorola.

said by pika2000:

Yeah, AT&T sux, and it's easy to blame them, but Motorola is the one that made the backflip, the one that made a deal with AT&T, the one that allowed AT&T to rape the phone.
As a very long time ATT customer, I always look for phones that can be restored to the original firmware; that is not unlocking but DEBRANDING.

I have always been much happier with the phone debranded, SE always put a lot of features into them while ATT always tried to re-purpose the phone to more cash streams (Video on demand, XM radio, etc).
--
»www.Warpstock.org

NOCMan
MadMacHatter
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

What's so bad about beign a dumb pipe

OMG do something really well and charge what the market will bear and you can make a profit. Not only do you put more focus on your network being the essential piece of the greater puzzle you create an ecosystem where you're basically water.

The problem with wireless companies and other network providers is that they're focused on everything but the damn pipe. If they did that and let others handle the content and apps it would be a win for everyone. More jobs would be generated as new companies form to build the next generation of apps etc.

The "Dumb Pipe" operators could make a killing with a minimum of investment. And please do not point out Utopia as a failed example, it was not big enough to succeed. If AT&T or Verizon were to move to dumb pipe it would spawn the needed investment into content.

sssx1

@lgk.com

yes

same here i always buy unlocked unbranded phones on att .. we have 3 nokias and 1 samsung.. also benfit is that data plans are cheaper..