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Comments on news posted 2010-03-11 18:16:58: France of course was one of the first countries to impose laws that require ISPs terminate the service of users who repeatedly engage in copyright infringement. ..


FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Too early to tell yet

»www.connexionfrance.com/ ··· cle.html
The study of 2,000 internet users in Brittany found 5% had completely stopped illegal downloading since Hadopi 2 became law.

Although the Hadopi law was passed last autumn, the body is not yet fully up and running and the first warning letters to persistent illegal downloaders have yet to be sent out.
I'd wait about 6 more months before declaring the 3 strikes law a failure. It is still too soon to call since the penalties haven't kicked in yet and haven't been publicized.
33358088 (banned)
join:2008-09-23

3 recommendations

33358088 (banned)

Member

what

aftyer 3-4 months you cant tell, and need another 6 months?
BOY oh BOY
like dont you get it
NONE are going to follow any of these laws so fine me jail me toss the internet into a sea of no one. WE WILL NOT GIVE UP, not give in , not now or ever more.

read this and understand:
Another one got caught today, it's all over the papers. "Teenager Arrested in Computer Crime Scandal", "Hacker Arrested after Bank Tampering"... Damn kids. They're all alike. But did you, in your three- piece psychology and 1950's technobrain, ever take a look behind the eyes of the hacker? Did you ever wonder what made him tick, what forces shaped him, what may have molded him? I am a hacker, enter my world... Mine is a world that begins with school... I'm smarter than most of the other kids, this crap they teach us bores me... Damn underachiever. They're all alike. I'm in junior high or high school. I've listened to teachers explain for the fifteenth time how to reduce a fraction. I understand it. "No, Ms. Smith, I didn't show my work. I did it in my head..." Damn kid. Probably copied it. They're all alike. I made a discovery today. I found a computer. Wait a second, this is cool. It does what I want it to. If it makes a mistake, it's because I screwed it up. Not because it doesn't like me... Or feels threatened by me.. Or thinks I'm a smart ass.. Or doesn't like teaching and shouldn't be here... Damn kid. All he does is play games. They're all alike. And then it happened... a door opened to a world... rushing through the phone line like heroin through an addict's veins, an electronic pulse is sent out, a refuge from the day-to-day incompetencies is sought... a board is found. "This is it... this is where I belong..." I know everyone here... even if I've never met them, never talked to them, may never hear from them again... I know you all... Damn kid. Tying up the phone line again. They're all alike... You bet your ass we're all alike... we've been spoon-fed baby food at school when we hungered for steak... the bits of meat that you did let slip through were pre-chewed and tasteless.

We've been dominated by sadists, or ignored by the apathetic. The few that had something to teach found us willing pupils, but those few are like drops of water in the desert. This is our world now... the world of the electron and the switch, the beauty of the baud. We make use of a service already existing without paying for what could be dirt-cheap if it wasn't run by profiteering gluttons, and you call us criminals. We explore... and you call us criminals. We seek after knowledge... and you call us criminals. We exist without skin color, without nationality, without religious bias... and you call us criminals. You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder, cheat, and lie to us and try to make us believe it's for our own good, yet we're the criminals.

Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for. I am a hacker, and this is my manifesto. You may stop this individual,but you can't stop us all... after all, we're all alike.

+++The Mentor+++

Bill Neilson
Premium Member
join:2009-07-08
Alexandria, VA

Bill Neilson

Premium Member

And I am glad that we are seeing this because

it is a blueprint for other users to do if their country gets such a ridiculous law.

cline3621
Mr. Yuk is MEAN Mr. Yuk is GREEN
Premium Member
join:2006-06-14
Clarksville, TN

3 recommendations

cline3621

Premium Member

What you get with piracy

Click for full size
I found this funny picture and figured I'd post it here. This is what you get with piracy.

Augustus III
If Only Rome Could See Us Now....
join:2001-01-25
Gainesville, GA

Augustus III

Member

lol epic image

OldschoolDSL
Premium Member
join:2006-02-23
Indian Orchard, MA

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Its funny cause its true. I do not support piracy, but have watched a few "boot leg" movies at a friends house....
zod5000
join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC

zod5000

Member

The Internet is going to end up completely encrypted.

The more laws they pass, the more people are going to encrypt their traffic. I think all this money they waste on trying to enforce it, is a waste of taxpayer dollars. It's like developing DRM, you spend millions developing it, and someone thwarts it in days.

That and I think they inflate dollars lost. They still base losses on the assumption everything downloaded is a lost sale. When the truth is people have budgets and financial constraints. If they had to pay for the product, there would be a finite amount they could buy, or they might value an alternative product as a better value for their finite budget. Not every download is a lost sale, because free gets you a lot more stuff, then paying. So I think the whole industry way over inflates how much they lose, because people don't physically have enough money to buy everything they pirate (nor would be willing if they did).
cornelius785
join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA

cornelius785 to cline3621

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Re: What you get with piracy

that picture if EPIC. we're all told that pirate get just the movie (sometime a complete rip if they want) and the legit payers get the ads, warning, ads, promos, extras, hidden 'goodies', and then the movie as a side dish.

that picture isn't entirely true though. if it is a DVD, just rip it with most any computer, same thing with HD-DVD and blu-ray discs (but probably a huge pain to do, may involve a significant amount of money to do, which results in true mobility of the movie). you get the same result, but you actually paid for the movie. you'll probably still be labeled a pirate for doing this by the media mafia + henchmen though.

ReformCRTC
Support Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada

1 recommendation

ReformCRTC

Member

yeah because then you violated the almighty D.M.C.A.!

Ask DVD Jon where that got him.

sitrix
join:2002-04-15
Tacoma, WA

sitrix to FFH5

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to FFH5

Re: Too early to tell yet

It is a failure regardless how much time goes by. All it does is encourage people to buy encrypted VPN access that's easily available for a very reasonable monthly price. Pretty soon, piracy will be declared non existent in France since all french pirates will have Swiss IP's.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena

Premium Member

I am so surprised!

I never saw this coming!
maartena

maartena to cornelius785

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to cornelius785

Re: What you get with piracy

DVD Shrink. Still works in Windows 7, removes all the crud you don't need, including unneeded languages, subtitles, opening menu's, extra's, and all the trailers... and withing half an hour or less you have a DVD you can actually "forget" at your friends house and not worry about it, looks almost identical to the original, and does exactly what the pirate section of that picture does: insert movie, press play, watch movie.

Augustus III
If Only Rome Could See Us Now....
join:2001-01-25
Gainesville, GA

Augustus III to zod5000

Member

to zod5000

Re: The Internet is going to end up completely encrypted.

said by zod5000:

The more laws they pass, the more people are going to encrypt their traffic. I think all this money they waste on trying to enforce it, is a waste of taxpayer dollars. It's like developing DRM, you spend millions developing it, and someone thwarts it in days.

That and I think they inflate dollars lost. They still base losses on the assumption everything downloaded is a lost sale. When the truth is people have budgets and financial constraints. If they had to pay for the product, there would be a finite amount they could buy, or they might value an alternative product as a better value for their finite budget. Not every download is a lost sale, because free gets you a lot more stuff, then paying. So I think the whole industry way over inflates how much they lose, because people don't physically have enough money to buy everything they pirate (nor would be willing if they did).
The average person has no idea about encryption. They are just going after the average kid that woke up one day and decided they will get something. They cannot touch the rest of the "market".

Of course it is not revenue lost. The way they calculate it is they count the volume of works transferred and put a price tag on each. So.. say x shared 40000 copies of something to XYZ. well, 40000x40$ = a big number. It doesn't take into account that in real life, only 4 out of those 40000 transfers would be actual purchases.

In reality their loss is 4x40$, not 40000. But the bigger number looks better.
zod5000
join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC

zod5000

Member

said by Augustus III:

said by zod5000:

The more laws they pass, the more people are going to encrypt their traffic. I think all this money they waste on trying to enforce it, is a waste of taxpayer dollars. It's like developing DRM, you spend millions developing it, and someone thwarts it in days.

That and I think they inflate dollars lost. They still base losses on the assumption everything downloaded is a lost sale. When the truth is people have budgets and financial constraints. If they had to pay for the product, there would be a finite amount they could buy, or they might value an alternative product as a better value for their finite budget. Not every download is a lost sale, because free gets you a lot more stuff, then paying. So I think the whole industry way over inflates how much they lose, because people don't physically have enough money to buy everything they pirate (nor would be willing if they did).
The average person has no idea about encryption. They are just going after the average kid that woke up one day and decided they will get something. They cannot touch the rest of the "market".

Of course it is not revenue lost. The way they calculate it is they count the volume of works transferred and put a price tag on each. So.. say x shared 40000 copies of something to XYZ. well, 40000x40$ = a big number. It doesn't take into account that in real life, only 4 out of those 40000 transfers would be actual purchases.

In reality their loss is 4x40$, not 40000. But the bigger number looks better.
Yah but if they really try to crackdown, the software will slowly add encryption by default.. people won't have to know about it, i'll become integrated.

Augustus III
If Only Rome Could See Us Now....
join:2001-01-25
Gainesville, GA

Augustus III

Member

said by zod5000:

said by Augustus III:

said by zod5000:

The more laws they pass, the more people are going to encrypt their traffic. I think all this money they waste on trying to enforce it, is a waste of taxpayer dollars. It's like developing DRM, you spend millions developing it, and someone thwarts it in days.

That and I think they inflate dollars lost. They still base losses on the assumption everything downloaded is a lost sale. When the truth is people have budgets and financial constraints. If they had to pay for the product, there would be a finite amount they could buy, or they might value an alternative product as a better value for their finite budget. Not every download is a lost sale, because free gets you a lot more stuff, then paying. So I think the whole industry way over inflates how much they lose, because people don't physically have enough money to buy everything they pirate (nor would be willing if they did).
The average person has no idea about encryption. They are just going after the average kid that woke up one day and decided they will get something. They cannot touch the rest of the "market".

Of course it is not revenue lost. The way they calculate it is they count the volume of works transferred and put a price tag on each. So.. say x shared 40000 copies of something to XYZ. well, 40000x40$ = a big number. It doesn't take into account that in real life, only 4 out of those 40000 transfers would be actual purchases.

In reality their loss is 4x40$, not 40000. But the bigger number looks better.
Yah but if they really try to crackdown, the software will slowly add encryption by default.. people won't have to know about it, i'll become integrated.
There are issues with doing that. You can't just broadcast encrypted at random and actually make it readable. You need to establish and encrypted link via normal packets. So.. they got you at this point. If it really goes that far...

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna

El Quintron

Premium Member

said by Augustus III:

There are issues with doing that. You can't just broadcast encrypted at random and actually make it readable. You need to establish and encrypted link via normal packets. So.. they got you at this point. If it really goes that far...
Not as many as you think.

The trend for most P2P software (limewire and freenet being two examples I know of) are going darknet; in essence you have no idea who you're downloading from.

So traditional means of acquiring evidence against file sharers are being eliminated.

If the above becomes common enough, everyone will know about encryption eventually.
33358088 (banned)
join:2008-09-23

33358088 (banned)

Member

after 7-8 months in south korea with 3 strikes law

»hurips.blogspot.com/2010 ··· ven.html

go read it and see what happens....

jadebangle
Premium Member
join:2007-05-22
00000

jadebangle

Premium Member

piracy will continue to flourish

you can't beat free
given the choice between paying and getting it for free is self explanatory
their fighting an uphill battle that get harder for them
the public doesn't care whether it legal or not
all they want is their movie or software or games that they can get for nothing
who the heck want to pay for anything? paying mean you have to earn it the hard way by sweating at the workshop for the greedy owner.
jadebangle

jadebangle to FFH5

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to FFH5

Re: Too early to tell yet

said by FFH5:

»www.connexionfrance.com/ ··· cle.html
The study of 2,000 internet users in Brittany found 5% had completely stopped illegal downloading since Hadopi 2 became law.

Although the Hadopi law was passed last autumn, the body is not yet fully up and running and the first warning letters to persistent illegal downloaders have yet to be sent out.
I'd wait about 6 more months before declaring the 3 strikes law a failure. It is still too soon to call since the penalties haven't kicked in yet and haven't been publicized.
it is only useful if few people do it but if there are too many it is a useless enforcement

Belinrahs
I have an ego the size of a small planet
Premium Member
join:2007-09-07
Nashville, MI

Belinrahs

Premium Member

Typo?

Just wanted to bring this potential typo to Karl's attention:
quote:
The law of course doesn't cover direct download sites, and so the use of BitTorrent dropped 7.1% to 14.6% as users migrated to direct downloads and Usenet.

Typo being, of course, bolded.
33358088 (banned)
join:2008-09-23

33358088 (banned) to jadebangle

Member

to jadebangle

Re: piracy will continue to flourish

said by jadebangle:

you can't beat free
given the choice between paying and getting it for free is self explanatory
their fighting an uphill battle that get harder for them
the public doesn't care whether it legal or not
all they want is their movie or software or games that they can get for nothing
who the heck want to pay for anything? paying mean you have to earn it the hard way by sweating at the workshop for the greedy owner.
but i pay taxes, i pay for food , pay for cloths ( mostly )
i pay for my hardware and there's a MS tax on that
i pay for my internet

so what exactly is free in a throttled , capped , and user base billed universe?
33358088

33358088 (banned) to jadebangle

Member

to jadebangle
said by jadebangle:

you can't beat free
given the choice between paying and getting it for free is self explanatory
their fighting an uphill battle that get harder for them
the public doesn't care whether it legal or not
all they want is their movie or software or games that they can get for nothing
who the heck want to pay for anything? paying mean you have to earn it the hard way by sweating at the workshop for the greedy owner.
and if you saw the headline
HERE'S A WAY TO GET FREE CASH FORM THE ATM THEY CANT FIX
and with a legal loophole it isn't quite illegal to get (download) the money
DO you think advertising it too people that dont know will be a good thing?

they went soooooo ape shit with there media that millions of uneducated morons got to learn howto and use
they sued what 50K people the most easy of targets.
they went after public torrent sites
notice that the only private ones they go after are ones that make are making huge profits?
the rest of them aren't and are being left alone why?
TWO reasons
legal reasons of privacy
and the users of these sites have a brain.

sivran
Vive Vivaldi
Premium Member
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX

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to FFH5

Re: Too early to tell yet

I would also call a 3% rise insignificant and possibly not even outside of the margin of error. 3% could even be attributable to natural ebb and flow of traffic.

I can't read french so I can't go read the pdf to see how they got their data, but how likely is it that pirates would self report in a country with a three strikes law? Not very, I think.

ArrayList
DevOps
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join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

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Re: what

thanks I haven't read that in quite awhile.
Raficoo
join:2006-11-14

Raficoo

Member

Re: Piracy increases ...

if Piracy does not exist, then nor does the internet.. o but wait.. the Internet does Exist!! so you know what that means

if the Internet were a person, he/she would say "I pirate, therefore i exist"

menumorut
BE an American.
join:2005-07-04
Queens Village, NY

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Re: Too early to tell yet

said by sitrix:

..... piracy will be declared non existent in France since all french pirates will have Swiss IP's.
Ha! I wish!
You still hang on that myth that little Swiss is neutral?These are not the the 1940s anymore.

Swiss company Rapidshare released personal data behind IPs on uploaders residing in Germany.

German law enforcement asked Swiss Rapidshare due to the fact that they had a office in DE and Rapidshare obliged.