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Comments on news posted 2010-07-01 09:28:03: Verizon's been struggling to get enough components (specifically 3.7-inch AMOLED screens) to meet demand for the Droid Incredible, and now Sprint says they're struggling to meet demand for their newest smartphone -- the HTC EVO. ..


Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23

3 edits

Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

I love the idea of unlimited everything for free. But Sprint is bleeding cash like Grant took Richmond; close to a billion a quarter. At the same time, despite all the goodies they are still losing customers, net loss of 75,000 last quarter alone.

It is not a sustainable situation by any measure. One would think that losing money in wireless wasn't possible given the success of Sprint's competitors. Sprint manages to do it every quarter.
--
"Our goal (was to make) a billion phones Flash-enabled by 2010...We're actually going to get 1 billion Flash-enabled phones by 2009." -Adobe Chief Technology Officer Kevin Lynch in Nov 2008.
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

They've been losing mostly on the Nextel side, not the CDMA side. Will be interesting to see how the EVO impacts customer gains/losses. One telcom analyst claims 1/3 of EVO sales are new Sprint customers. They haven't been able to keep EVO is stock in most places or online. This quarter could be the turning point.

Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23

1 edit

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

They don't break down the numbers other than to say it was the huge prepaid customer adds that cut the net losses to 75,000. Without prepaid they lost hundreds of thousands of subs.

I read that per user revenue is down slightly as well. They're either going to have to add a crap load of new subs which a single Android phone will never do or they have to up the per user revenue (by raising prices, bringing caps, etc).

If they actually got the subscribers they need, a few million more plus ongoing growth, particularly through high bandwidth phones like EVO, who knows if the network could actually handle it.
--
"Our goal (was to make) a billion phones Flash-enabled by 2010...We're actually going to get 1 billion Flash-enabled phones by 2009." -Adobe Chief Technology Officer Kevin Lynch in Nov 2008.

NYR 56
Premium
join:2000-12-05
Smithtown, NY

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

They break it down as follows (from Z80A's link):

-The CDMA network lost approximately 131,000 post-paid customers while iDEN lost almost 447,000 customers.
-The company gained a net 348,000 prepaid subscribers, which includes net additions of 392,000 CDMA customers, offset by net losses of 44,000 iDEN customers. The company also gained 155,000 wholesale and affiliate subscribers as a result of renewed subscriber growth in the wireless MVNO business.

The iDen network is what's killing them. It might not be just roses on the CDMA side but they would definitely be making money if it weren't for the Nextel acquisition.

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2
Nextel's been nothing but a poison to Sprint. They made a HUGE mistake buying them.

Back in the early 2000, every one I knew had a Nextel phone. They worked well, at least as well as most cell phones of the day.

Now, Nextel is known as NextHELL by the 3 or 4 people I know that have them. Constant dropped calls. Dead spots, Direct Connect not working.

Sprint should just shut iDen down and migrate their remaining users to CDMA. Ditch the cost of maintaining a second network, and give your remaining customers a good deal so they migrate....
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

And they could convert the iDen spectrum to LTE. I don't understand why Sprint doesn't sell only iDen/CDMA combo phones. I think they still sell iDen only phones, which just keeps them locked in. They need to dump iDen ASAP.

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

I have a friend who has a Nextel Blackberry. I don't know if it's a combination iDen & CDMA or it's just iDen, but it drops calls constantly.

It would seem to make sense if you're running 2 networks, to sell a phone that uses CDMA for voice, and iDen for DC.

There may be technical issues we haven't thought of....
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power

iLive4Fusion
Premium
join:2006-07-13
said by xenophon:

And they could convert the iDen spectrum to LTE. I don't understand why Sprint doesn't sell only iDen/CDMA combo phones. I think they still sell iDen only phones, which just keeps them locked in. They need to dump iDen ASAP.
Too many PSAP's use iDEN and the iDEN band can't be used for anything other than iDEN because of it's SMR freq. allocations.
--
2010 Ford Fusion Sport

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
Don't they have those 'Powersource' phones ?
--
Canada = Hollywood North
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

not any more. The iDEN CDMA phone was axed shortly after it came out. CMDA for phone and data, iDEN for DirectConnect. The phone maybe was out for 2 quarters but that was it.
--
www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products!

aSic
application specific
Premium
join:2001-05-17
Wakulla, FL
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by xenophon:

I don't understand why Sprint doesn't sell only iDen/CDMA combo phones.
They used to. Remember the PowerSource line of handsets? The used CDMA for voice/data (1xRTT only), and iDen for PTT. That was Sprint's original attempt at forcing a migration to CDMA. It failed miserably.

Of course, back then, the iDen coverage still outranked CDMA, and people were finding no voice service (under CDMA) where they previously had voice service under the 100% iDen network.

It failed. If they were to try it again today, I believe the outcome would be different.
--
Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say.

iLive4Fusion
Premium
join:2006-07-13
said by N3OGH:

Nextel's been nothing but a poison to Sprint. They made a HUGE mistake buying them.

Back in the early 2000, every one I knew had a Nextel phone. They worked well, at least as well as most cell phones of the day.

Now, Nextel is known as NextHELL by the 3 or 4 people I know that have them. Constant dropped calls. Dead spots, Direct Connect not working.

Sprint should just shut iDen down and migrate their remaining users to CDMA. Ditch the cost of maintaining a second network, and give your remaining customers a good deal so they migrate....
Nextel was great up until Sprint took them over. Nextel is more reliable for PTT and many gov. agencies use it.
--
2010 Ford Fusion Sport

Steve Mehs
Gun Control Is Using A Steady Hand
Premium
join:2005-07-16
kudos:1
Clearly you have no idea what iDEN is all about. iDEN is about instant 2 way communications. iDEN was specifically designed for that purpose. Problem is consumers want data access, which iDEN was not designed to do and texting which doesn't work well with iDEN and other crap. Nextel is used in government and industry. No other push to talk service is as robust as Nextel. Sprint can't just shut down a whole part of their operation, especially one that yields millions of dollars. CDMA doesn't work for PTT. Verizon's Push To Talk is a joke. It was an utter failure the first time around, so bad they stopped offering it for a while and still sucks. Sprint's Ready Link was discontinued infavor of the much superior Direct Connect . CDMA is vastly inferior to iDEN for 2 way communications and as long as there is demand for it, it should never be shut down. And QChat did not take off like they wanted it too.

And as far as built quality goes, I DARE anyone to compare any other phone to a ruggedized Motorola Nextel phone. If you need a phone to work for you and not just be a toy, if you need a phone that can take a beating, Nextel is the only place to go. I have a Nextel phone and a Sprint phone. The Nextel Moto i680 is my workhorse phone, my Evo is my toy.

One of Nextel's problems with coverage is due to the fact since other then SouthernLINC there are no other iDEN providers in the country, so there's no where to roam.

quote:
It would seem to make sense if you're running 2 networks, to sell a phone that uses CDMA for voice, and iDen for DC.

There may be technical issues we haven't thought of....
Been there done that, massive failure. There was a series of four hybrid phones, Sprint CDMA for phone and data and Nextel iDEN for Direct Connect dubbed Powersource Phones. The ic402 was a basic flip phone, the ic502 was a ruggedized phone with more features, the ic602 was the same as the 502 but with a camera and the ic902 was a higher end slicker looking phone. Three years ago I had the ic502 for a week and returned it. It was awful, it looked like a typical Nextel phone but lacked a few key things all Nextel phones do. Powersource is dead, the phones haven't been for sale on the website in a long time and there is no sign of anymore hybrid phones coming out. But unfortunately for you and everyone else who is naive even to want to see iDEN die, Sprint is launching the Motorola i1 Android Phone later this month for Nextel. To me that says iDEN is alive and well and has no plans to be shut down.
--
Time Warner Cable Subscriber, Fanboy, Shill & Lover - Providing an advanced fiber network since before fiber became popular
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hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

Especially with that phone is going to be for sale on the Boost Mobile side (the first prepaid Andrioid)
--
www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products!
nltech

join:2007-06-13
West Haverstraw, NY

2 edits
said by Z80A:

I love the idea of unlimited everything for free. But Sprint is bleeding cash like Grant took Richmond; close to a billion a quarter. At the same time, despite all the goodies they are still losing customers, net loss of 75,000 last quarter alone.

It is not a sustainable situation by any measure. One would think that losing money in wireless wasn't possible given the success of Sprint's competitors. Sprint manages to do it every quarter.
The only reason why some people use Sprint rather than superior networks such as Verizon or AT&T is for these unlimited and lower cost plans. Take that away and it will be more like hemorrhaging.
puck0114

join:2005-12-24
Portland, OR

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

I will give you that Verizon has a better network, but AT&T absolutely does not. AT&T's 3G coverage is nowhere near as extensive, and their network is nowhere near as reliable.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·row44

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

said by puck0114:

I will give you that Verizon has a better network, but AT&T absolutely does not. AT&T's 3G coverage is nowhere near as extensive, and their network is nowhere near as reliable.
ATT's coverage is way better than Verizon and much more reliable.
Verizon always has dropped calls and has spotty coverag driving on major interstates across the US.
--
Your behavior is inconsistent with your desire to be treated like everyone else.
DarnellP

join:2004-10-12
Las Vegas, NV

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

said by r81984:

ATT's coverage is way better than Verizon and much more reliable.
Verizon always has dropped calls and has spotty coverag driving on major interstates across the US.
Still holding on this delusion eh? Smh...
--
Apparent thread killer...
gr84fun

join:2002-09-26
Las Vegas, NV
said by r81984:

said by puck0114:

I will give you that Verizon has a better network, but AT&T absolutely does not. AT&T's 3G coverage is nowhere near as extensive, and their network is nowhere near as reliable.
ATT's coverage is way better than Verizon and much more reliable.
Verizon always has dropped calls and has spotty coverag driving on major interstates across the US.
I am a sprint customer and the only experience i have with Verizon's network is when I Dont have sprint coverage(Which is rare). Whenever i don't have coverage Verizon is there with free roaming coverage(Now 3G as well). That said i actually believe that with the roaming agreements between Sprint and Verizon i actually have the coverage of two networks and i can honestly say i haven't been anywhere where i do not have coverage. Secondly i am a Proud Evo owner and it has never been touched upon but the Evo has the best signal of any phone i have ever owned. My wife works in a fully concrete building which is a cell black hole. the only company that does work there besides sprints off and on 1 bar is Verizon. With the Evo she can now carry on a conversation that even a Verizon phone could not. And finally since i have gotten the Evo i have not dropped a call. Even in places where i normally drop a call, Which sprint's network does a good job of not dropping calls compared to At&t. Best part is I pay Half as much as someone with an Iphone and i get to talk to any cellphone in America for free as well as unlimited text, data, tv, navigation. Not Bad
Ulmo

join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA
said by r81984:

ATT's coverage is way better than Verizon and much more reliable.
Shill.

Wow. AT&T, everywhere I've lived, has always been far worse than Verizon. I've lived a lot of places. This has been true since I've owned a cell phone since 1993.

Now, someone I know did a survey of where AT&T was worse than Verizon, and where AT&T was OK. Guess what? Everywhere I lived, Verizon was 100x to 1000x better than AT&T, and I've lived a LOT of places. Turns out: almost everywhere ELSE, AT&T is tolerable. So, AT&T is for the ho-dunks or something or other, but it just doesn't cut it to say AT&T is better than Verizon when clearly Verizon is, to me and many, CLEARLY far better.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·row44

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

said by Ulmo:

it just doesn't cut it to say AT&T is better than Verizon when clearly Verizon is, to me and many, CLEARLY far better.
Yes it does. GSM has better coverage across this country than CDMA.
I have lived in many places and driven all over with people who have verizon.
--
Your behavior is inconsistent with your desire to be treated like everyone else.

NYR 56
Premium
join:2000-12-05
Smithtown, NY
ATTs network is awful, period. I've never seen a cell drop calls with full bars as much as they do. My family has had all three providers and I am happiest with Sprint. Although I don't have "5 bars" everywhere, I have a reliable service, which is much more important. I've also never been in an area that was dead for me but the other networks worked. Verizon may be better in the middle of nowhere, but I'm in NY and Sprint is king here.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
VZ got that network by buying everyone and anything they could especially in the MidWest when it was GTE Mobility here. Without that VZW wouldn't be what it is today, nor would the merger of Dobson's Cellular One which was TDMA at the time of the buyout of VZW. Airtouch Midwest was one of the last companies in the MW area that VZ touched and that was the draw of their coverage here.
--
www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products!
NyNexit

join:2009-11-01
Huntington, NY

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

yup... Verizon is essentially a bunch of baby regional bells daisy chained.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

very true! and the day will come when them at AT$T are put back in their place and broke up once again and when that happens they'll be an add on from the Judge saying "these companies are NEVER to be able to merge together again nor form another company of the same size".

And that will be all.
--
www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products!

MrMaster
jetsetter
Premium
join:2000-12-16
St Thomas, VI
said by nltech:

said by Z80A:

I love the idea of unlimited everything for free. But Sprint is bleeding cash like Grant took Richmond; close to a billion a quarter. At the same time, despite all the goodies they are still losing customers, net loss of 75,000 last quarter alone.

It is not a sustainable situation by any measure. One would think that losing money in wireless wasn't possible given the success of Sprint's competitors. Sprint manages to do it every quarter.
The only reason why some people use Sprint rather than superior networks such as Verizon or AT&T is for these unlimited and lower cost plans. Take that away and it will be more like hemorrhaging.
Speak for yourself. AT&T has a bullshit network and I drop calls every fucking day. My wife has Sprint and has no problems.

I'm switching to Sprint at the end of the year. I'm fed up not being able to take a call on 3G. NO MATTER WHERE I AM in this city. I don't even use an iphone. I use a 9700 blackberry. My iphone clients have the same problem.

Sprint isn't as bad as they use to be for customer service.
--
One never notices what has been done; one can only see what remains to be done. -Marie Curie
nnaarrnn

join:2004-09-30
Nitro, WV
ATT can't touch Sprint's network.

iLive4Fusion
Premium
join:2006-07-13

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

said by nnaarrnn:

ATT can't touch Sprint's network.
Depend's on the market, Sprint sucks here if you leave the interstate. AT&T is great.
--
2010 Ford Fusion Sport
nnaarrnn

join:2004-09-30
Nitro, WV

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

ha! that's funny. It's the exact opposite.

bcsman

@covad.net
Don't know about Verizon because I have no experience but the AT&T network is CRAP in New York City and S.F. Bay area and environs and many parts of Texas so AT&T may be just dandy where you live but that doesn't make it a superior network. You can't maintain a call so many times with AT&T (if you can actually place one to begin with) and then they have the huevos to suggest another device to use to their service (at an acquistion cost and monthly charge mind you) for a service you're paying for . I've NEVER had a dropped call on my Srint line in the 9 years I've been with them so AT&T may LOOK good on paper or in a statisitical model but if it doesn't perform when you need it then its of no value much less a superior network.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·row44

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

said by bcsman :

Don't know about Verizon because I have no experience but the AT&T network is CRAP in New York City and S.F. Bay area and environs and many parts of Texas so AT&T may be just dandy where you live but that doesn't make it a superior network. You can't maintain a call so many times with AT&T (if you can actually place one to begin with) and then they have the huevos to suggest another device to use to their service (at an acquistion cost and monthly charge mind you) for a service you're paying for . I've NEVER had a dropped call on my Srint line in the 9 years I've been with them so AT&T may LOOK good on paper or in a statisitical model but if it doesn't perform when you need it then its of no value much less a superior network.
Im talking about all over the country from driving everywhere.
Living in several different states.
Verizon always has issues while ATT gets a GSM signal in way more places and works better inside a building.
--
Your behavior is inconsistent with your desire to be treated like everyone else.
cw30000

join:2008-07-11
SOLUTION: KILL NEXTEL

Honestly, years ago, I have many friends with Nextel devices, now hardly anyone still use them.

They need to drop Nextel or simply spin them out and let them die.
wispalord

join:2007-09-20
Farmington, MO

Re: Sure...keep bleeding $1B a quarter

i work at sprint they are slowly killing nextel and offering more percks to upgrade iden to cdma
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
said by Z80A:

I love the idea of unlimited everything for free. But Sprint is bleeding cash like Grant took Richmond; close to a billion a quarter. At the same time, despite all the goodies they are still losing customers, net loss of 75,000 last quarter alone.

It is not a sustainable situation by any measure. One would think that losing money in wireless wasn't possible given the success of Sprint's competitors. Sprint manages to do it every quarter.
Yes, unlimited everything for free. That's exactly what we're talking about. Are you sure you're reading the same thing as the rest of us?

gigahurtz
Premium
join:2001-10-20
Palm Coast, FL

In other words...

Sprint will eliminate Unlimited plans within the next 6 months. They are trying to play the "good guy" role and when all this blows over with AT&T they will follow suit.

•••••

i5xswipe

@76.226.184.x

right move

I am glade to hear Sprint is holding their own ground and not being a sticking with the unlimited data. This will prove to be a real advantage to them over the next couple years.

Sprint I love my EVO, I wish I had WiMax in my area, but we all know LTE will be the World Standard in the coming years, so lets start deploying both, otherwise this will be your demise!

hep cat
do da dirdy bird

join:2001-02-17
Decatur, GA

Re: right move

Don't worry. From what I have read here and there it's not a hard or costly switch over to LTE from WiMax
--
Bowling: It's cleaner than baseball.
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Re: right move

My guess is that Clearwire will stick with WiMAX for a while( or do both) and that Sprint will eventually slowly convert 1900Mhz CDMA to LTE, but not for several more years.

CDMA will die someday but it will take 10+ years. Sprint will eventually have to go LTE but Clear doesn't have to and I hope they keep WiMAX alive as it's not controlled by the telcom industry. As long as the cable industry invests in Clear, they'll keep WiMAX going.

Steve B
Premium
join:2004-08-02
Seattle, WA

Is He Sure??

Is he sure it "adds complexity for customers" or is it "adds complexity for our employees"? We all know one of the reasons why they started the SE plans was because of the enormous amounts of billing problems that Sprint had. A lot of the reps were poorly trained and never could seem to handle what Sprint offered then. So they do SE. So again, I have to wonder if its really about the customers or the employees.
talz13

join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH

Re: Is He Sure??

said by Steve B:

Is he sure it "adds complexity for customers" or is it "adds complexity for our employees"? We all know one of the reasons why they started the SE plans was because of the enormous amounts of billing problems that Sprint had. A lot of the reps were poorly trained and never could seem to handle what Sprint offered then. So they do SE. So again, I have to wonder if its really about the customers or the employees.
But when added complexity for the employees results in poor customer service, it could easily be extended to complexity for the customer when they have to fight over the phone to get their bills straightened out.

Steve B
Premium
join:2004-08-02
Seattle, WA

Re: Is He Sure??

It's not the case of poor customer service because of complexity. It's a case of complexity for the employees because they were poorly trained. If the reps were trained properly, it wouldn't have been hard to deal with.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

free markets, consumer choice

dont' worry... price and value go down, and sales go down. these things have a way of balancing themselves out, didn't $5 gasoline do that? and those are some of greediest bastards in the world (the oil companies and refiners, not necessarily the franchise-ees). unlike the addiction to oil, a cell phone price gouge is a habit that's more easily broken.

problem (for handset makers & carriers): these handsets which they are making into the millions will be like lettuce on the docks which will rust at retail if they can't move them so, the trend (despite the triopoly market of AT&T, Verizon and Sprint) to eliminate unlimited from it's core products is happening.. will eventually see some revised tiered plans. if you've noticed, gas prices ticking up.. so does everything else in proportion.. so the middle of the year is a bad time to renew contracts it seems.

the phones really aren't that great, and there is a portable device market w/o phones that use wifi which are just as tasty as the post paid cell phone multi function device. there is only so much the consumer will tolerate before that walled garden is the bricked wall of monopoly.
talz13

join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH

Re: free markets, consumer choice

Click for full size
Speaking of gas prices, here's my latest view on that. The price of gas is 'tick'ing upward, but not nearly like it was during the spike of '08.

AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1

Re: free markets, consumer choice

said by talz13:

Speaking of gas prices, here's my latest view on that. The price of gas is 'tick'ing upward, but not nearly like it was during the spike of '08.
Gas is going up due to artifical increases. (BP disaster)
--
standard disclaimers apply.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

unlimited as a real competitive advantage

It can't be a competitive advantage if Sprint doesn't bother to offer service in your area.
flbas1

join:2010-02-03
Fort Lauderdale, FL

Sprint is looking good . . .

Sprint has a very attractive package. the Sprint U301 is a usb 3G/4G aircard for $60/month. which, by itself it what it is.

but, when you start to consider that the usable 4G speeds being discovered are around 4-6M, (currently planned) unlimited consumption on 4G, has room to grow to 144M, and $60/month, things get tricky.

For example, uVerse is more expensive, and is currently limited to 24M. wimax is a fraction of the uverse - but uverse isn't mobile, and there are likely to be more infrastructure problems (cut cables, etc). And, its not capped - yet (think iPad/iPhone successes "for the consumer")

and then there is everyone's favorite - comcast. yea. they get similar speeds, unless you are in the right area, where you can get 50M. But, comcast is a shared line. that doesn't guarantee you get what you are paying for - it means you and your neighbors get to share the line. You get to pay for the speed, but consume the remaining bandwidth from your neighbors. it is more expensive than Sprint. and it is capped @ 250G - which makes the service ridiculous: you can pay more to quickly get to your cap, or you can pay less to slowly get to your cap (since most have the arbitrary cap of 250G)

So - what does all of this mean? once Sprint offers 4G in my area, it will be cheaper than ATT and Comcast, uncapped, mobile (can use it at starbucks or in another city), not bad as far as speed, etc.

Add netflix and hulu, and it is a very worthy competitor to cable.

•••••

old_dawg
"I Know Noting..."

join:2001-09-22
Westminster, MD

Meh

Once Danny Boy and the rest of the Kansas City cowards finish draining the last drops of cash from the corpse and float away on their golden parachutes, all this commentary will be moot.
--
"Our network engineers are aware of the problem..."