dslreports logo
site
spacer

spacer
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


view:
topics flat nest 
Comments on news posted 2010-08-26 12:32:14: We've explored how the Goorizon alliance is the regulatory equivalent of a bobble-head doll: cute and stuffed largely with air, but primarily designed to pre-empt tougher consumer protections. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

Lobby

Is all this BS intended to circumvent the already loophole filled agreements they made to purchase the spectrum in the auction?
--
Let them eat FIBER!



Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:38

No, it's just layered on top of those meaningless Carterfone rules to ensure a good fauxsumer show.



gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

I dunno if I agree with that. They are spending a lot of money for just show?

Good business strategy to get all the ducks lined up in a row before the LTE networks come online for easy killing and plucking.
--
Let them eat FIBER!



Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:38

3 edits

3 recommendations

They are spending a lot of money for just show?
The goal is to lay down a regulatory framework that prevents the FCC from expanding its authority through Title 2 reclassification, under which the FCC would have some actual authority to regulate ISPs. Verizon hopes to either get an entirely voluntary, self-regulatory system in place, or to get one of their well-lobbied Democrat or Republican friends in Congress to draft a law based on their proposal before more progressive laws with tough protections can be tabled. Both of those would be entirely for show, with Verizon proclaiming they support consumer protections, but having written said rules, knowing precisely how to get around them.


morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
Reviews:
·Charter

Verizon's Arrogance and Greed

Verizon's arrogance and greed is simply amazing. Perhaps more amazing is the fact that VZ managed to glom onto Google and get them to switch their net neutrality tune while gaining some credibility and goodwill from a Google partnership.

Google's goodwill has no where to go but down. Bad move.


Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1

1 recommendation

United States is now a Third World Country.

Goorizon is to big to regulate. Goorizon will payoff lawmakers as necessary to buy legislation favorable to them. American Lawmakers have only the interest of the wealthiest Three Percent of American Citizens in mind they do not have any respect for ordinary American Citizens.



NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA

1 recommendation

Have you ever been in a 3rd world country?


SuperWISP

join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY

Proposal would let the camel's nose into the tent.

The big problem with the "Goorizon" proposal is that it would allow the government to regulate the Net. Once that camel's nose is in the tent, that would be it -- game over! The FCC would attempt to acquire the power to enforce "decency" on the Net. And because any traffic prioritization would be deemed to be "presumptively" wrong, quality of service would go into the toilet and rates would go up.

The Internet has prospered for 27 years with no regulation, and it needs none. We should reject not only this proposal but all proposals to regulate the Net.



Back Haul

@myvzw.com

Brett,

Are the special access lines you use to carry your WISP traffic back to the Internet backbone part of the "Internet"? If so, then I am curious why you think the net has never been regulated. You yourself have advocated all over the place for even more stringent special access regulations, since they are an input to your business.

Also, if what you really mean is last-mile ISPs like yourself, you are wrong there too. All sorts of webs of regulations have applied since the birth of the Internet, from the Computer Inquiries to ISP-bound traffic access charges, to the 1998 Advanced Service Order. We are only recently in an era of un-regulation.


Angrychair

join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL
reply to SuperWISP

Proving once again, "only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."


chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Mediacom

Verizon a consumer's predator?

"Here's a real fact: Verizon wants what any massive, government-pampered duopolist wants: more strings-free taxpayer money, a lazy regulatory body with no consumer protection authority whatsoever, government protection from competition, and the ability to engage in any business practices they like, no matter how unethical or anti-competitive."

Sounds like the top executives would fail a business ethics course if they went back to college.


Angrychair

join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL

Business ethics? Isn't that an antithetical?



coldmoon
Premium
join:2002-02-04
Broadway, NC
Reviews:
·Windstream
reply to chgo_man99

said by chgo_man99:

"Here's a real fact: Verizon wants what any massive, government-pampered duopolist wants: more strings-free taxpayer money, a lazy regulatory body with no consumer protection authority whatsoever, government protection from competition, and the ability to engage in any business practices they like, no matter how unethical or anti-competitive."

Sounds like the top executives would fail a business ethics course if they went back to college.
The only people that the execs are accountable to are the shareholders who (presumably) have profit as their top priority. I don't think they would care what grade the execs got in their ethics classes or even if they ever took such courses...

JMHO

Mike
--
Returnil - 21st Century body armor for your PC


aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA
reply to Karl Bode

Re: Lobby

Good job Karl.

I wonder if big V pays their lobbyist with their $1.99 phantom fee...

»Verizon's $1.99 Phantom Fee Returns
--
.:|:. This link for rent...!


chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA
reply to Angrychair

Re: Verizon a consumer's predator?

These courses do exist. At least in private schools.


chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Mediacom

2 edits
reply to coldmoon

I think schools really mean well by teaching those courses.

The more people in power who have some ethics, the less need for a regulation in government level.

These courses became very widespread since fall of Enron.

But unfortunately, the reality seems to be very different with government agencies overlooking consumer protections and going to bed with corporations for their money.

They should still teach those courses though. They should be in public schools as well.


WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX
reply to SuperWISP

Re: Proposal would let the camel's nose into the tent.

said by SuperWISP:

The big problem with the "Goorizon" proposal is that it would allow the government to regulate the Net. Once that camel's nose is in the tent, that would be it -- game over! The FCC would attempt to acquire the power to enforce "decency" on the Net. And because any traffic prioritization would be deemed to be "presumptively" wrong, quality of service would go into the toilet and rates would go up.

The Internet has prospered for 27 years with no regulation, and it needs none. We should reject not only this proposal but all proposals to regulate the Net.
Better "decency" rules than let thieves run wild.

WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX
reply to coldmoon

Re: Verizon a consumer's predator?

said by coldmoon:

said by chgo_man99:

"Here's a real fact: Verizon wants what any massive, government-pampered duopolist wants: more strings-free taxpayer money, a lazy regulatory body with no consumer protection authority whatsoever, government protection from competition, and the ability to engage in any business practices they like, no matter how unethical or anti-competitive."

Sounds like the top executives would fail a business ethics course if they went back to college.
The only people that the execs are accountable to are the shareholders who (presumably) have profit as their top priority. I don't think they would care what grade the execs got in their ethics classes or even if they ever took such courses...

JMHO

Mike
The only people execs should be accountable to are the ones that SHOULD ENFORCE THE LAW.


N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2
reply to gaforces

Re: Lobby

The idea of "a lot" of money is relative.

If I thought I could make/save millions, a couple grand would be squat...
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2
reply to NOCTech75

Re: United States is now a Third World Country.

That question is often asked of people that make the claim that the US is a 3rd world country. I haven't seen many affirmative responses.


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2
reply to WernerSchutz

Re: Verizon a consumer's predator?

Then you need to remove fiduciary responsibilities and disallow private investment in corporate structures. Talk about a sure way to kill CAPEX and stifle innovation.



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to Mr Matt

Re: United States is now a Third World Country.

said by Mr Matt:

United States is now a Third World Country:
Not even close. And telecomm issues wouldn't be what could put us in to 3rd world status. What could is a massive continually growing deficit and sending jobs overseas faster than we create new ones in the US.

WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX
reply to openbox9

Re: Verizon a consumer's predator?

said by openbox9:

Then you need to remove fiduciary responsibilities and disallow private investment in corporate structures. Talk about a sure way to kill CAPEX and stifle innovation.
Fiduciary responsibilities are not an excuse to break laws without repercussions.

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
reply to openbox9

Re: United States is now a Third World Country.

Our lawmakers are behaving like those behave in a third world county. They are making decisions on behalf of special interests rather than acting on behalf of their constituents. Lawmakers accept payoffs campaign contributions from big corporate and write laws in their behalf. You do not have to live in a third world country with livestock running around in the streets to live in a country where lawmakers behave like those in a third world county.



NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by Mr Matt:

Our lawmakers are behaving like those behave in a third world county.
So what is your experience in making laws in a 3rd world country? What 3rd world country did you visit and participate in their government functions? What laws in the 3rd world country you were in did you pass?

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1

Jamaica 1973. At the time the government in Jamaica was corrupt. I was with a sales team that was invited to present our PABX systems to Continental Telephone. We gave up, because the local politicos wanted a significant pay off in order to allow our products to be imported to their country. The situation was so bad that Continental stopped all construction in the country. When the existing Jamaican government thugs were overthrown construction resumed.



NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA

Sounds like you weren't actually making laws in Jamaica, but thanks for trying, please drive through.


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
japan
kudos:2
reply to WernerSchutz

Re: Verizon a consumer's predator?

Broken laws? Did I miss part of the discussion?


WaltFrench

join:2010-08-07
Oakland, CA

1 recommendation

reply to WernerSchutz

Re: Proposal would let the camel's nose into the tent.

“The Internet has prospered for 27 years with no regulation…”

Of all the totally ridiculous, anti-factual statements that can be constructed in the English language, this is close to the worst.

The internet originated as a DOD project, 100% government funded. It was BORN in a government-driven environment.

Public access to the internet was originally thru telephone companies which were totally regulated in their obligation to act as "common carriers" who (a) could NOT discriminate as to who you could contact, and (b) could not be responsible for the legality of what you did on their network. Once upon a time, we had enforced network neutrality.

The FCC, created by your Congress in 1934, is charged with ensuring efficient, low-cost, most valuable management of the nation's airwaves. Wireless services have (at least, nominally) ALWAYS been under the government. The airwaves that cell phones use is licensed from the government.

Even the blatantly one-sided Verizoogle proposal doesn't dare make such obviously clueless assertions. Why do you? If you want to assert that govts always screw up business, go ahead. But I'm about to get on a (delayed) flight and am sure glad that the FAA requires Delta to inspect its planes, requires minimum rest times for crews, etc, on the flight I'll be on, unlike those poor souls who perished in Buffalo.

So, to your claim: it's absurd. To your political beliefs, ask any real economist: what are the conditions where a "free market" performs badly? When you have only two sellers controlling over half of a market, is there any reason to expect the country to benefit? PS: the answer is "Gawd, no!"


WaltFrench

join:2010-08-07
Oakland, CA

Karl, I know you had a lot of ground to cover...;

Perhaps the most blatant lie is the notion that we ALREADY HAVE a reasonably net-neutral environment. But in fact, wireless access today does not even meet the CarterPhone standard that broke down AT&T's landline monopoly.

Best example I can cough up: Verizon and AT&T, the dominant wireless carriers, forbid users from tethering other equipment to their company-provided equipment. Rather than define the AMOUNT of data you use, they arbitrarily restrict the EQUIPMENT that you can attach, and the TYPE OF USE you can make. That's two of Google's 2007 4 Freedoms, totally steamrollered today, and obviously not restricted under the Verizoogle proposal.