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Comments on news posted 2010-09-09 18:17:29: Threatening job losses or reduced investment if regulators do X (X being anything from new consumer protections to price controls) has been a staple in the incumbent telecom lobbyist playbook for years. ..

pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora

Premium Member

Corporate greed and politics

Sigh.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: Corporate greed and politics

This is how things are done. For anyone who believe, or hopes, otherwise, I suggest a visit to our nation's capitol. Maybe other interested constituents should begin visiting their congress critters to balance out the situation.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to pandora

Premium Member

to pandora
Of course government operations on the golden rule.

The one with the gold makes the rules, in this cases its the mega telecoms with the gold(well dollars).

but really unless a congress critter ends up in risk of being "voted off the island" hes not going to listen to the letters he gets when Corporation_01 just handed him tends of thousands of dollars or more.
gorehound
join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME

gorehound to pandora

Member

to pandora
more government BS.in the end we consumers will get the screwjob.
and this will effect conservatives or liberals.
better wake up usa and vote good this year.
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora

Premium Member

Re: Corporate greed and politics

The only anti-business as usual group of late is the TEA party.

A problem with the TEA party is it's conservative / traditional agenda along with political and economic reforms. I'm uncertain how well thought out their agenda is, how cohesive it is, and if it doesn't contain unnecessary baggage that will keep it from ever succeeding.
lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL

lesopp

Member

Re: Corporate greed and politics

I am not a TEA party member, but I am six months unemployed and I'll take any agenda that creates real jobs. I do not see the current progressive agenda doing that, I have grown tired of the rhetorical saved or created mantra and am willing to give the TEA party ideals a chance. Guess how this independent and many others will vote on November 2nd?
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora

Premium Member

Re: Corporate greed and politics

said by lesopp:

I am not a TEA party member, but I am six months unemployed and I'll take any agenda that creates real jobs. I do not see the current progressive agenda doing that, I have grown tired of the rhetorical saved or created mantra and am willing to give the TEA party ideals a chance. Guess how this independent and many others will vote on November 2nd?
I kinda felt that way when voting for Obama. He promised change, and bipartisanship, then appointed the most partisan member of the house to be his chief of staff, and excluded Republicans from just about every meeting on significant legislation.

I would like to think the TEA party stood for something, but after the bipartisan candidate has established the most partisan executive since FDR, I'm not holding my breath.

XBL2009
------
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL

XBL2009

Member

Re: Corporate greed and politics

said by pandora:

said by lesopp:

I am not a TEA party member, but I am six months unemployed and I'll take any agenda that creates real jobs. I do not see the current progressive agenda doing that, I have grown tired of the rhetorical saved or created mantra and am willing to give the TEA party ideals a chance. Guess how this independent and many others will vote on November 2nd?
I kinda felt that way when voting for Obama. He promised change, and bipartisanship, then appointed the most partisan member of the house to be his chief of staff, and excluded Republicans from just about every meeting on significant legislation.

I would like to think the TEA party stood for something, but after the bipartisan candidate has established the most partisan executive since FDR, I'm not holding my breath.
Republicans/Democrats just play a game while corporate money wins every battle.
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora

Premium Member

Re: Corporate greed and politics

said by XBL2009:

Republicans/Democrats just play a game while corporate money wins every battle.
Very cynical, but it appears also true.
jfd15
join:2008-01-07
West Sacramento, CA

jfd15 to pandora

Member

to pandora
i love Corporate GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!

GREED IS GOOD!!!!

DataRiker
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
00000

DataRiker

Premium Member

Love It

LOL @ Baghdad Bob

Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium Member
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT

Subaru

Premium Member

Re: Love It

said by DataRiker:

LOL @ Baghdad Bob
lol came here to say the same he was friken the highlight of the war almost

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 edit

1 recommendation

FFH5

Premium Member

Industry hates regulation;will lobby hard against it

Lobbying isn't about truth. It is about winning. And painting the worst possible outcome of regulations is a tool. It isn't industries job to be a NEUTRAL analyst and describe a likely outcome. Just like it isn't advocates opposing the telecom industry to portray likely outcomes. Advocates minimize the effects of regulations, even if history shows that isn't likely either.

Congress, as is usual in cases where both sides portray diametrically opposed positions, will choose a path of least resistance. And if anti-industry advocates don't have overwhelming support, they will lose. Money trumps voters every time unless the voters are VERY motivated and up in arms over an issue. Does anyone here think the public at large is up in arms over net neutrality?
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

Re: Industry hates regulation;will lobby hard against it

said by FFH5:

Advocates minimize the effects of regulations, even if history shows that isn't likely either.
Well that would be a real shame, seeing how positive an effect regulations have had in the telecom sector in countries like France and Japan.

Camaro
Question everything
Premium Member
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA

1 recommendation

Camaro to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
I totally agree you make great points on protecting ones interest/business model but your last line is what the few people like me try to do any chance i get is EDUCATE people,because uneducated people don't give two shits until that unregulated pricing systems nails them in the wallet.

Jim Kirk
Premium Member
join:2005-12-09
49985

Jim Kirk to FFH5

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to FFH5
said by FFH5:

Lobbying isn't about truth.
Something you're well acquainted with.
nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD

nasadude to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
you got it exactly!

U.S. = banana republic

U.S. govt is a corporatocracy

vzw emp
@144.191.148.x

vzw emp to FFH5

Anon

to FFH5
Some of you may recall a popular anthem for the hip-hop world: C.R.E.A.M - Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
Well, in government cash is king.

Corporations spend money to lobby our elected officials to pass laws in their favor. They also make contributions to the campaigns of those sympathetic to their cause.

Our representatives seek these campaign contributions to get (re)elected (sympathy with the donor is based solely on the size of the donation) because he who has the most cash can usually buy the most exposure to potential voters.

And as for us in the voting public, well, much like our elected officials who don't bother researching an issue prior to voting, we often don't do our own research when we select whom to vote for at the polls (google "Alvin Greene"). Apathy rules, and whoever has name recognition (or the best campaign slogan, or party affiliation or looks the cutest/most honest/trustworthy) usually wins.

The sad part is the general public won't wake up and do anything about it until something really bad happens (a la BP. Lax regulators, literally in bed with those they are tasked with overseeing, and no public outrage until a disaster occurs).
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

1 recommendation

Mr Matt

Member

The Two Percenters are at it again.

The Broadband industry is a reflection of the make up of the US population and economy. Two Percent of the population controls 95% of the wealth. A small percentage of companies control the broadband and communications services.

Let the uneducated vote in the greedy old pigs (GOP) this November so they can permanently reduce taxes for the wealthiest 2% and block any relief for communication services customers.

zalternate
join:2007-02-22
freedom land

1 edit

zalternate

Member

Re: The Two Percenters are at it again.

'Propaganda' from the 'greedy old pigs' is running rampant. Keep the Rich, rich. And keep the poor in the Sheeple position with blinders on.
Consumers keep screwing themselves by acting on mis-information.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

1 recommendation

openbox9 to Mr Matt

Premium Member

to Mr Matt
said by Mr Matt:

Two Percent of the population controls 95% of the wealth.
And ~40% pay no taxes to support our government...maybe they shouldn't have a voice?
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

Re: The Two Percenters are at it again.

Forty percent pay no taxes because they do not have any income. They do not have any income because their jobs have been sent overseas on a slow boat to China and are living in poverty.

It was just brought to my attention, on a talk show, that all employed persons pay a 15% payroll tax until they have earned over 100,000.00 Then they stop paying the payroll tax. The payroll tax is regressive. The two percenters pay a smaller portion of their income in payroll taxes than 98% of Americans.

Do you want to allow Americas wealthiest 2% to keep their tax cut so that they can buy another yacht, Rolls Royce or a home theater for their Twenty Million Dollar Mansion while your neighbors are being evicted from their foreclosed homes because they were tricked into buying a house that they could not afford by the Wall Street Weasels. The same weasels are screwing consumers on communications services by not disclosing the true cost of their services when they quote prices.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Re: The Two Percenters are at it again.

Don't forget how much interest these super wealthy earn off shore where it cannot be taxed by the US Government.
jfd15
join:2008-01-07
West Sacramento, CA

jfd15

Member

Re: The Two Percenters are at it again.

yeah, steal their money...Get 'em, Get 'em....
viperlmw
Premium Member
join:2005-01-25

viperlmw

Premium Member

Re: The Two Percenters are at it again.

said by jfd15:

yeah, steal their money...Get 'em, Get 'em....
Hyperbole. No one said anything about stealing anything. Taxes are levied and assessed, and paid by all. No thieving necessary.

Everyone pays some form of tax. Even welfare and unemployment are taxed. My Navy retirement is taxed. Everyone pays sales tax, gasoline tax, various excise taxes, etc.
lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL

lesopp

Member

Re: The Two Percenters are at it again.

Appearantly taxes are not paid by all. »latimesblogs.latimes.com ··· irs.html
viperlmw
Premium Member
join:2005-01-25

viperlmw

Premium Member

Re: The Two Percenters are at it again.

said by lesopp:

Appearantly taxes are not paid by all. »latimesblogs.latimes.com ··· irs.html
This is superfluous to this conversation. You're reply is still not correct, as even these folks are paying all the other taxes and fees out there. Income tax is only one piece of the revenue pie.

However, in another discussion, you're point w/regards to the link is valid, and totally pisses me off!
jfd15
join:2008-01-07
West Sacramento, CA

jfd15 to viperlmw

Member

to viperlmw
it is theft, at the point of a gun(and threat of incarceration) and you know it is...so sad to see how many on here hate "the rich" and willing to have the gov't steal from them on their behalf...
viperlmw
Premium Member
join:2005-01-25

viperlmw

Premium Member

Re: The Two Percenters are at it again.

said by jfd15:

it is theft, at the point of a gun(and threat of incarceration) and you know it is...so sad to see how many on here hate "the rich" and willing to have the gov't steal from them on their behalf...
So you are saying that the assessment and collection of taxes by a constitutionally elected government is equivalent to theft? The rich shouldn't pay tax? That's just ludicrous!
amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22

amigo_boy

Member

Re: The Two Percenters are at it again.

said by viperlmw:

said by jfd15:

it is theft, at the point of a gun(and threat of incarceration) and you know it is...so sad to see how many on here hate "the rich" and willing to have the gov't steal from them on their behalf...
So you are saying that the assessment and collection of taxes by a constitutionally elected government is equivalent to theft? The rich shouldn't pay tax? That's just ludicrous!
He didn't say the wealthy shouldn't pay any tax. Just that the tax should be flat. You pay 10%. They pay 10%.

We don't have a flat tax, and never did. There are reasons against such a tax, which could explain why no credible movement for such a "flat" rate exists. The largest intellectual deficit of such a tax system is that even those who propose it don't really propose a "flat" system. They propose 0% for the first $16k of income, and 18% for every dollar over that amount.

That's two rates. Not "flat." And, it validates the point behind progressive taxation: that lower-income dollars are more "essential" and "basic" than high-income dollars.

It doesn't make any sense to exempt the first $16k because it's "essential" to a basic standard of living. But, the $10 over $16k isn't. Or, worse, that the $10 over $16k is equally essential to a basic standard of living as the $500,0000 over $16k.

So, "jfd15" was engaging in a bit of hyperbole.

1. He suggested he supports a tax system he probably doesn't. Or, at least not one that would ever have a chance of existing.

Therefore, in the absence of a truly "flat" income tax, we're left with progressive taxation and the questions that naturally arise concerning how levels of income are more or less essential to a basic standard of living.

2. He suggested that everyone who supports such progressive taxation is a "socialist."

But, he didn't want to talk about how he uses zoning laws to "steal" from his neighbor. (See my earlier reply to him for more details).
jfd15
join:2008-01-07
West Sacramento, CA

1 recommendation

jfd15 to Mr Matt

Member

to Mr Matt
the 15% payroll tax is for Social Security and what, Medicare? its actually split 50/50 between the employer and employee but if you dare to be self-employed you will indeed pay the 15% all by yourself....

and yes, i do want to "ALLOW" the wealthiest 2% to keep their money because THEY EARNED IT....

•••••
amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22

1 edit

amigo_boy to Mr Matt

Member

to Mr Matt
said by Mr Matt:

It was just brought to my attention, on a talk show, that all employed persons pay a 15% payroll tax until they have earned over 100,000.00 Then they stop paying the payroll tax. The payroll tax is regressive.
I like a lot of what you've said. But, you're not describing the above accurately.

I believe you're referring to Social Security, which is (technically) an insurance premium (Google for "FICA" which is called "insurance.").

Although the "premium" stops at $100k of income, it is very far from "regressive."

Go here and download the PDF (top-right corner). Print it, and "figure" your Social Security benefit by hand.

You'll see:

• The first 90% of your monthly benefit comes from the first $700 of monthly income.
• The next $3800 in monthly income contributes just 32% to your monthly benefit.
• The next $4000 in monthly income contributes just 12% yo your monthly benefit.

It stops there because earners didn't pay "premiums" on incomes above that level.

So, as you see, on the receiving side, it's significantly progressive. People who earned more, paid more, and didn't receive a proportional benefit.

Maybe it should be more progressive. Maybe the "disability" component of Social Security should be removed and treated like the welfare program it is. Maybe Social Security "retirement" benefits treated more like an annuity (real insurance).

But, it's misleading to focus on the 15% (employer/employee) "contribution" as a flat (regressive) tax without revealing how that 15% is distributed when a "claim" is filed. We'll never have thoughtful reform if we don't understand what it is we're reforming. (Like the other side who mislead people by saying it's a savings account, and they can do better with private savings.).

footballdude
Premium Member
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO

1 recommendation

footballdude to Mr Matt

Premium Member

to Mr Matt
said by Mr Matt:

your neighbors are being evicted from their foreclosed homes because they were tricked into buying a house that they could not afford by the Wall Street Weasels.
That's the funniest thing I've read online today. Help me! I got tricked into buying a house! It's not my fault!
amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22

amigo_boy

Member

Re: The Two Percenters are at it again.

said by footballdude:

said by Mr Matt:

your neighbors are being evicted from their foreclosed homes because they were tricked into buying a house that they could not afford by the Wall Street Weasels.
That's the funniest thing I've read online today. Help me! I got tricked into buying a house! It's not my fault!
Technically, the same thing could be said for Bernie Madhoff's victims. They should have known above-market yields don't occur without above-market risks.

The problem during the real-estate bubble was cash poured into mortgage-backed securities for the same reason: above-market yields which looked like AAA-grade due to the trickery of CDOs and CDSs.

With all that cash pouring in, just dying for mortgages to invest in, we ended up with reassurances to home buyers, like "Suzanne researched this... you can do it:"

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· d-tWYmZw


Sure, home buyers were ultimately responsible for being misled. But, as was the case with Enron, Madhoff, et. al., we tend to take a dim view of those who mislead.

In this case, the financial industry (and investors) were bailed out. I believe it had to be, or it would have taken us all down further than it already has. But, this is another example of why wealth (and income) disparity has widened to levels that make us have more in common with corrupt nations.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

2 recommendations

openbox9 to Mr Matt

Premium Member

to Mr Matt
said by Mr Matt:

Forty percent pay no taxes because they do not have any income.
Sure they don't. They more likely don't have any income above a certain threshold based on our screwed up tax code.
said by Mr Matt:

that all employed persons pay a 15% payroll tax until they have earned over 100,000.00
Which tax are you specifically referring to? Medicare? Social Security? The withhold rates are 1.45% and 6.2% respectively. The Social Security tax tops out at $106.8K of income in 2010. Of course, the benefit from the program is capped as well. So, not really regressive considering the benefit is capped.

Feel free to read more if you're interested: »www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p15.pdf
said by Mr Matt:

Do you want to allow Americas wealthiest 2% to keep their tax cut
I think as a society we pay too many taxes as it is, so yes, I believe the tax cuts should stand for everyone.
said by Mr Matt:

while your neighbors are being evicted from their foreclosed homes because they were tricked into buying a house that they could not afford by the Wall Street Weasels.
Wow. What a distorted understanding of reality. If anyone did the tricking it was our government that wrongly suggested that everyone should own a home and used its mortgage arms of Fannie and Freddie to attempt to make it a reality.
said by Mr Matt:

The same weasels are screwing consumers on communications services by not disclosing the true cost of their services when they quote prices.
Huh? What Wall Street weasels are screwing consumers on communications services?

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

3 edits

1 recommendation

FFH5 to Mr Matt

Premium Member

to Mr Matt
said by Mr Matt:

Two Percent of the population controls 95% of the wealth.
Here are the CORRECT numbers:
10% of the population controls 30% of the income -

»www.cia.gov/library/publ ··· rRow=#us
United States lowest 10%: 2%
highest 10%: 30% (2007 est.)
And compare to the WORLD avgs:
World lowest 10%: 2.5%
highest 10%: 29.5% (2003 est.)
»sociology.ucsc.edu/whoru ··· lth.html
And as for WEALTH distribution the top 20% of the population owns 85% of the wealth. NOT 2% owning 95% as you claim.

And an interesting chart:


More info:
»www.wider.unu.edu/public ··· 8-03.pdf
Check Table 1

••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
jfd15
join:2008-01-07
West Sacramento, CA

jfd15 to Mr Matt

Member

to Mr Matt
the title of this thread is the best...."OMG THEY'RE AT IT AGAIN, THEY WANT TO KEEP THEIR MONEY!! OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!"

••••••

jack b
Gone Fishing
MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod

jack b

MVM

Net Neutrality

Has worked perfectly fine forever, ever since Al Gore invented the internet, up until now, that is.

We have AT&T to thank for creating the net-neutrality debacle. Or is it boondoggle.

DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA

DavePR

Member

Re: Net Neutrality

I thought it was Comcast throttling Bittorrent. That's when I became aware of the concept.
qworster
join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA

1 edit

qworster

Member

Swanson knows his argument is empty ......

"Swanson knows his argument is empty, but assumes his readership is well-stocked with idiots."

Yeah-most of whom work for the FCC.
axiomatic
join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

axiomatic

Member

Their bluff...

...CALL IT!!!

I would love to see these idiot CEO's screw themselves over by reducing the jobs that manage their own respective network infrastructures. I can see no better an example for the need for net neutrality then to let these CEO ass-hats go forward with their dastardly plan.

Irony... it's whats for breakfast.