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Comments on news posted 2010-09-15 11:07:28: According to the New York Daily News, Time Warner Cable and Cablevision have agreed to spend $10 million to provide WiFi service in 32 New York City parks in exchange for a ten year franchise extension. ..


Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

1 edit

I have to Give New York City Credit

At least New York did not do what San Fransisco did with the purposed free city wide system Google wanted to install in San Fransisco The city council bargained like a bunch of legendary rug merchants. Google was going to install and maintain the system for free, and access was to be free but the City Council acted like Google owed the city for being a successful business with all kinds of demands that caused Google to drop the whole thing. New York at least got a Wifi system that might be expanded, who knows but it is a start. I personally think .99 cents a day is a bargain. Good show New York.
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: I have to Give New York City Credit

True - $0.99/day is a bargain, assuming there's no upfront user cost.

$0.99/day would work out to ~30/month... hmmm not much different than a hard line, or a 'cheap' 3G connection.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

sold at too low a price

for the type of banwidth that could be consumed in a PARK of all places.. it should've been free, unlimited for what the cable companies got in return!

nyc is selling out to businesses at TOO LOW A PRICE! in return the people of nyc got screwed.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

2 edits

Re: sold at too low a price

said by tmc8080:

the people of NYC got screwed.
From where I sit in the High Plains of Wyoming it would seem to me the People of New York City are getting screwed on a daily basis by the City anyway. The tax system in New York City to my point of view is so Byzantine it is running people and business out of the city. With this WiFi system a person and sit back with their iPad and plan their vacation, perhaps to Wyoming where they can sit with their backs to a log pole pine taking in the wide open vistas, and relax.
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT

99 cents a day..

has the taxpaying New Yorker all shook up?
Is he also concerned that taxi cabs make money off taxpayer funded streets?

TW And cablevision are FOR PROFIT Companies..not charity organizations. The point of what they're doing is that they're putting up front 10 million dollars so that people can have a service in the parks if they want it and if they choose to use it.
That doesn't and shouldn't make it be a free service.

The fact that they're going to spend the 10 million and allow everyone a free 30 mins a month on the service is well intended I think and targets the casual user who might want to check their email ..maybe get directions if they're a traveler or whatever. It's not about providing someone a 24/7 connection to replace their home connection. And, if that's what they want..99 cents a day..priced PER DAY mind you..is also a very fair price to ask for such a considerable upfront investment.

It's great that NY will have this. And the price and terms are fair.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: 99 cents a day..

I'm curious about whether TWC/CV/Comcast customers get free park WiFi. If so, the deal's even sweeter. Folks with FiOS pay 99 cents per day, people with cable get the service for free. The $10 million is NOT taxpayer money so I see no problem with this.
Bobcat79
Premium
join:2001-02-04
For that price, you can get a cell phone data plan and have access while moving and in places other than the parks.
--
Critics are asking if Megyn Kelly blows goats.
Bobcat79
Premium
join:2001-02-04

1 recommendation

Profit in the parks

There are hot dog / soda carts in the parks. I assume the vendors are there to make a profit. We pay money to get a Coke; why should WiFi be any different?
--
Critics are asking if Megyn Kelly blows goats.
k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

Re: Profit in the parks

said by Bobcat79:

There are hot dog / soda carts in the parks. I assume the vendors are there to make a profit. We pay money to get a Coke; why should WiFi be any different?
I think you missed the point.
Those hotdog sellers have to pay for inventory. To provide wifi access, all an ISP has to do is setup some APs and run an internet connection to them. After that, the service runs itself. You only need to send people out for maintenance. ISP's do NOT pay per amount of data, they pay for the speed of data (assuming they don't have a backbone of some kind). Which I'm sure when the smoke clears, they will have some sort of cap for that .99c simply because they want to continue the illusion that they pay per byte.
So, some of the costs would be:
+ Equipment (one time)
+ Maintenance
+ Cost of the speed of bandwidth/month
Which, to an ISP the last item is pennies compared to the amount of profit they can get from this deal.

aztecnology
O Rly?
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA

Re: Profit in the parks

said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

said by Bobcat79:

There are hot dog / soda carts in the parks. I assume the vendors are there to make a profit. We pay money to get a Coke; why should WiFi be any different?
I think you missed the point.
Those hotdog sellers have to pay for inventory.
lolwht...?
--
.:|:. This link for rent...!
Bobcat79
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Neither hot dogs nor bandwidth is free.

Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

2 edits

Re: Profit in the parks

said by Bobcat79:

Neither hot dogs nor bandwidth is free.
I'm sure the ISP's can squeeze at least 1Mbps from their Tb/sec backbone.

..not to mention most ISPs get a discount for getting a huge pipe. What frustrates me is some charge by the byte when they're getting charged by the speed.

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1

Re: Profit in the parks

said by Simba7:

I'm sure the ISP's can squeeze at least 1Mbps from their Tb/sec backbone.
thats quite a bit of a stretch -- considering that if a transit backbone is using something like packet over sonet links, technology only exists for n*oc768 (~40gbps). 40gbe and 100gbe are still in the pipeline and have not been standardized yet.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."

Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

Re: Profit in the parks

said by tubbynet:

thats quite a bit of a stretch -- considering that if a transit backbone is using something like packet over sonet links, technology only exists for n*oc768 (~40gbps). 40gbe and 100gbe are still in the pipeline and have not been standardized yet.
I meant multiple redundant backbones. Some of the larger ISP's (or backbone providers) usually have several.

..and that's 40GbE on a single link. We all know that a fiber bundle usually has several tens/hundreds of them.

Also, 40GbE and 100GbE are official. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Gigabit_Ethernet
--
Bresnan 18M/1M
MyWS[E5200@3.75GHz,4GB RAM,2x1TB HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2GHz,2GB RAM,120GB HDD,Win7]
Router[2xP3@1GHz,512MB RAM,18GB HDD,SMC 8432BTA,2xDigital DE504,Compaq NC3131,Intel Pro/1000MT,IBM Gigabit Ethernet-SX,Allied Telesyn AT2560FX,Gentoo Linux]

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1

Re: Profit in the parks

said by Simba7:

..and that's 40GbE on a single link. We all know that a fiber bundle usually has several tens/hundreds of them.
but the fiber bundle may or may not carry all of the same isp's transit traffic. the issue with having several hundred strands per bundle, is the optics, linecards, chassis, and management to be able to handle all of said terminations. at the current packet over sonet max rate -- thats still a bundle of 25 sets of strands. not saying it doesn't happen -- but thats quite a stretch to say that it *always* happens.

Also, 40GbE and 100GbE are official. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Gigabit_Ethernet
yes -- as of 17 june 2010. show me a manufacturer that has done more than demo their phy and show me a kit maker that has 40gbe or 100gbe running currently in a box for sale.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."

WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
said by Bobcat79:

Neither hot dogs nor bandwidth is free.
Nice play on "Animals and proles are free." Thumbs up.
k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
said by Bobcat79:

Neither hot dogs nor bandwidth is free.
Did I say it was? No.
Please reread my post.
talz13

join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH
said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

ISP's do NOT pay per amount of data, they pay for the speed of data (assuming they don't have a backbone of some kind).
I thought they only paid for the amount of data, not necessarily the speed.

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:

ISP's do NOT pay per amount of data, they pay for the speed of data (assuming they don't have a backbone of some kind)
if an isp has a backbone -- transit is free, but the peering is not. the transit path simply allows them to carry data where cheap peering is available (or to provide "in house transit" to different nap's in the country).
at the end of the day -- if the destination resides out of the control of the isp's network, then traffic will have to be handed off to another carrier -- sometimes at a cost. depending on the size of the carrier, traffic agreements, load sharing, etc, the peering may be "free" since the two peers will come to an agreement that traffic will be roughly equal and differences split at the end of the quarter/half/year, etc (generally true for tier-1 access). however, if the isp is a residential access network that is not an old lec (i.e. your mso's) and they don't have a significant userbase from which to draw destination traffic from -- they will probably end up paying for throughput in one way or another (something like 95th percentile or so).

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."
chimera

join:2009-06-09
Washington, DC
Those vendors pay the city for the right to sell in the park. TW isn't being charged for this by the city.

CrazyFingers

join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO

1 edit

Re: Profit in the parks

And the hot dog vendors don't give away three free hot dogs per person per month.
Apples to oranges.

Nick
Purveyor of common sense
Premium,VIP,MVM
join:2000-10-29
Smithtown, NY

Probably free for subscribers

For what it's worth, Cablevision already offers FREE WiFi across parts of Long Island. The SSIDs on the WiFi stations also advertize Comcast's Xfinity and Time Warner SSIDs with the intent being that if you are a Cablevision/Comcast/Time Warner subscriber you roam for free on the other MSOs network.

What the article is probably not saying is that service will be free for subscribers of Time Warner and Cablevision (And probably Comcast) but people without subscriptions will have to pony up a dollar for a day. For people who travel internationally, a dollar for a day's worth of internet access is very cheap.

And the terms are still being worked out on this....
--
-Stupidity, like hydrogen, is one of the basic building blocks of the Universe.
-Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Misc

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

1 edit

Great for Tourists

This would be a great thing for Tourists. To what ever device they have they could download maps, restaurant locations, museums, etc. It just adds one more information source.

I keep thinking of what San Fransisco could have had. Google was going to have a push advertising system, it would have kept track of your location and then offer up ad's for businesses in your intimidate area. You see an interesting restaurant across the street and you refer to your smart phone or Touch and look for that eatery and pull up their menu. I remember the Businesses in the City were absolutely clamoring for it. Alas San Fransisco was more i interested in Blackberry's for Bums then helping out their tax base.

--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Probably free for subscribers

Y'know, if OptimumWifi also had the 99 cent per day access fee...well, that would be really useful since I hear it's all over the place in NYC, but is currently limited to OOL/TW/Comcast users (no FiOS).

Nick
Purveyor of common sense
Premium,VIP,MVM
join:2000-10-29
Smithtown, NY

Re: Probably free for subscribers

I don't understand what your point is. Since it's a free service to subscribers, opening it up as a commercial enterprise MAY result in an insufficient infrastructure being in place and not being able to handle the load. Much like AT&T complains about iPhone users.

There are other business purposes to have WiFi available for B2B applications.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Probably free for subscribers

Not opening it up for free...opening it up for pay. More people would get on the network, sure, however only those folks who don't have cable already can't access it anyway...

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
Confirmed over at CED magazine. Free to subscribers.

»www.cedmagazine.com/News-Time-Wa···510.aspx
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.
eggboard
Premium
join:2000-11-18
Seattle, WA

Cable firms pay 5% of gross revenue

NYCwireless is forgetting that the cable firms are already paying 5% of gross revenue as a franchise fee. This is a side deal over and above that.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Cable firms pay 5% of gross revenue

No kidding. So if you're paying $50 per month for internet $2.50 of that goes to NYC gov't. Pretty sweet deal for them (the gov't).

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

1 edit

Re: Cable firms pay 5% of gross revenue

Cable modem service or internet service in general is not subject to franchise fees. This is based on a FCC ruling.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Cable firms pay 5% of gross revenue

Ah k.

SSidlov
Other Things On My Mind
Premium
join:2000-03-03
Pompton Lakes, NJ
Cable TV service does pay franchise fees. And in most home/apts around here that's $50-100 a month once the deals run out. A few years ago an audit showed that TWC applied the fee incorrectly and NYC got an extra $7mill payment.

»www.nyc.gov/html/doitt/html/busi···le.shtml
--
»www.Warpstock.org
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Non-Profit Tantrums

NYCWireless appears to be upset that they didn't get to dine at the table and suck up more taxpayer funds to provide [more of] their so-called "free" service.

(It ain't free. Contributions to their 501(c)(3) deprive the Treasury of tax revenues.)

cabana
Department of Adjustments
Premium,Mod
join:2000-07-07
New York, NY

Park - novel idea - how about go there to get away from wireless

sigh ... I like to be as connected as the next person. It is annoying enough when I visit the park to have to seek out places where I am not sitting next to "she who must spill all of her gripes at the top of her lungs" cellphone girl - or "he who must yell at subordinate for not pulling his weight" cellphone man - or "she who must yell at her boyfriend for fill in the blank" cellphone woman.

While you do see laptops now - most people seem to get - parks should be a haven to get away a bit. With wireless I guess that means even more people will be toting all sorts of this and that on their "picnic" blanket.

I look forward to seeing someone perched in a tree with the laptop up there

Yes ... I know this is not the point of the conversation ... and Yes ... I know "bizness" ... is business ... but I am annoyed anyway

SSidlov
Other Things On My Mind
Premium
join:2000-03-03
Pompton Lakes, NJ

Re: Park - novel idea - how about go there to get away from wire

@cabana:

Sigh, this could be true, and everyone can always turn off their devices or put them on silent.

But this is NY the city that never sleeps whose employers are tracking your position and availability with that blackberry or other phone they gave you.

And for the private citizen? ATT et al are screwing you on the data rates, so some more free wifi or more wifi hotspots if you're a TWC/CV/CC customer is a good thing.
--
»www.Warpstock.org
NyNexit

join:2009-11-01
Huntington, NY

harsh reality

Why do so many people insist on everything being free on the internet? If you don't want to pay ONE DOLLAR, then conduct your internet related business at home before you leave for the park. DONE, end of story.
Nothing is free, and it shouldn't be. If the cable companies are willing to light up 32 parks, they should at-least recoup their equipment,labor and up-keep investment.
If you don't want to pay a dollar to surf the web in the park on a nice day, then pay $4 for a latte, sit at a tiny wobbly table and get online that way, or go to the library. Better yet get a JOB.
The funny thing is, I'll bet the same people who complain about paying a dollar for Wi-Fi, are the same people with overpriced phones and data plans.
-Sorry had to get that out.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

Re: harsh reality

said by NyNexit:

Why do so many people insist on everything being free on the internet? If you don't want to pay ONE DOLLAR, then conduct your internet related business at home before you leave for the park. DONE, end of story.
Nothing is free, and it shouldn't be. If the cable companies are willing to light up 32 parks, they should at-least recoup their equipment,labor and up-keep investment.
If you don't want to pay a dollar to surf the web in the park on a nice day, then pay $4 for a latte, sit at a tiny wobbly table and get online that way, or go to the library. Better yet get a JOB.
The funny thing is, I'll bet the same people who complain about paying a dollar for Wi-Fi, are the same people with overpriced phones and data plans.
-Sorry had to get that out.
My point earlier wasn't about getting something for free.. it's about the exchange of goods and services in kind. Cablevision and Time Warner haver a LOCK on lots of NON-FIOS deployed regions of NYC for 10 YEARS in exchange for what amounts to chicken feed... no doubt NYC gets to charge some money too as part of the cable-tv bill per "HEAD" in addition, but could have gotten unlimited used in the parks instead of limited usage. Deals of these kinds are called CROSS SUBSIDY whereby neither party has to spend oodles of money to promote one another. The upkeep of WIFI cable-modem hotspots isn't really that expensive once the initial investments are in place. It's usually a bank of about 4-20 wifi endabled cablemodems on 4-10 channels depending upon geogrpahy covered. Nevertheless the wifi deployed is the CHEAPER "G" variety as well so costs are coming down between $20 - $40 per cablemodem/wifi-g combo unit compared with $60 - $300 upto 5 years ago in volumes.

If we look around.. Verizon isn't exactly falling all over themsleves to DOLE-OUT free wifi across NYC any time soon to cannibalize the nascent WIRELESS BROADBAND they charge for.

The notion of giving anything away for free anymore means it must not be good or has this conservative leaning negative connotation of socialism attached to it. Let's face it, Bloomberg woudln't allow that kind of socialism to rear it's head in NYC any time soon-- there always had to be a catch.

We're entering a new cycle in which the big chill in the political climate moves on to invade/infect the ECONOMIC CLIMATE. Started about 2007ish and gearing up for a "Heck of a 2011"
majortom1029

join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
kudos:1

1 edit

hmm

I know everybody is PRO FIOS around here and bashes the cablecompanies every chance they get but how come this part was left out?

"In addition to WiFi, the cable companies agreed to provide more than $30 million in new upgrades to the city's communications infrastructure and to increase the number of Public, Educational and Government (PEG) Channels available on their systems to 17 from nine.

Time Warner also agreed to set up 40 community broadband access centers in local neighborhoods, while Cablevision agreed to work with the Department of Education to establish media centers in certain public schools.

"

Timewarner and cablevision as part of the deal will help upgrade The cities communications infrastructure for the city government, aand education .

•••••••
ernstk

join:2001-05-08
Middle Village, NY

Fee waived for TW/CV subscribers

nycwireless.net has the Cable Franchise Media Briefing and it says there on page one (right after the 99 cent bit):
"Fee waived entirely for TW/CV broadband subscribers"
Klaus Ernst NYC

squirrel83
cheers

join:2005-05-02
Honolulu, HI

google free wifi

hasn't google had free wifi in central park for years?

heat84
Bit Torrent Apologist

join:2004-03-11
Fort Lauderdale, FL

1 edit

MAC address Spoofing?

I'm sure you could do that and get as much free usage as you want. Though I guess you'd have to do it every 10 minutes which could get annoying.

FastiBook

join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA

No thanks!

I prefer real free wifi.

- A
--
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4

30 minutes/month

LOL what a joke!

SSidlov
Other Things On My Mind
Premium
join:2000-03-03
Pompton Lakes, NJ

Re: 30 minutes/month

said by dvd536:

LOL what a joke!
The service they offer is already 3mb service. And you should take a look at the map of the area it covers across 3 states. »optimum.net/WiFi/Find and 60% of the population in that area? They get it without extra charges.
--
»www.Warpstock.org