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Comments on news posted 2010-09-27 08:27:40: Despite unprecedented recent changes in telecommunications surveillance, and AT&T and Verizon's involvement in wholesale shuffling of data directly to the NSA -- the U.S. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next
decifal

join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN
kudos:1

1 recommendation

@#$@#

Thanks Cheney, your twin tower blessing has truely screwed this country up in the long run

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

2 recommendations

Re: @#$@#

Really? You really believe that? There isn't much I can post to your statement that won't get deleted by a mod.

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

Re: @#$@#

And we wonder why this country is in soooo much trouble.

Parogadi
What? Stop Looking At Me Like That
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Racine, WI
In Soviet America TV watches you.

Quick, someone hook up some leads to the founding father's graves! We just solved the energy crisis!

jchambers28

join:2007-05-12
Alma, AR
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·Cricket Broadband
·AT&T Wireless Br..
said by battleop:

Really? You really believe that? There isn't much I can post to your statement that won't get deleted by a mod.
pm it to em.

bigstick

@centurytel.net
nah,its ok.its dems now huh.

hgh

@rr.com
said by decifal:

Thanks Cheney, your twin tower blessing has truely screwed this country up in the long run
Actually you should thank Clinton. This isn't a Patriot Act thing it's a Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act thing.

»www.askcalea.net/
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communicat···ment_Act

"We're not talking expanding authority," FBI general counsel Valerie Caproni told the Times. "We're talking about preserving our ability to execute our existing authority in order to protect the public safety and national security."

Internet and phone networks are already required to have eavesdropping abilities thanks to a 1994 law called the Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act, but the mandate does not apply to communication service providers -- like Research in Motion, maker of BlackBerry devices.

swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia

1 recommendation

said by decifal:

Thanks Cheney, your twin tower blessing has truely screwed this country up in the long run

It started with the rise of corporations in the 19th century (selling defective equipment to both sides in the civil war). Once they took over the government, we were headed for fascism. This is a late stage.
--
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." -- 9th Amendment, U.S. Constitution.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: @#$@#

Bingo

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Blame this one, blame that one.

No wonder things are in the shitter, and circling the bowl. People fall into the political spinster's blame games and screw us while we fight out here amongst ourselves.

They all suck, people. All the politicians are out for themselves and they only care about their own families, their major contributors, and the money.

So, to blame Cheney, to blame Bush, to Blame Clinton, to blame Obama is pointless.

BLAME THEM ALL!
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power
ross7

join:2000-08-16

Re: @#$@#

said by N3OGH:

Blame this one, blame that one.

No wonder things are in the shitter, and circling the bowl. People fall into the political spinster's blame games and screw us while we fight out here amongst ourselves.

They all suck, people. All the politicians are out for themselves and they only care about their own families, their major contributors, and the money.

So, to blame Cheney, to blame Bush, to Blame Clinton, to blame Obama is pointless.

BLAME THEM ALL!
Some do deserve special mention...

fgh

@rr.com

1 recommendation

said by swhx7:

said by decifal:

Thanks Cheney, your twin tower blessing has truely screwed this country up in the long run
It started with the rise of corporations in the 19th century (selling defective equipment to both sides in the civil war). Once they took over the government, we were headed for fascism. This is a late stage.
You don't even know what Fascism IS. Get a clue dude.
Expand your moderator at work
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
Hate to break it to you guys but this is nothing new. And it did not start with 9/11 or Dick Cheney. Spying and communications interception has been with us for millienums (millenia?) And every President has authorized it.

When Obama got into office I'm sure he got the briefings and basically said "oh shit, this stuff is real" and acted like every other President who realized that national security was his job. Why do you think he's essentially continued every national security program that his predecessors started, and taken the same posture with his positions in that area? You may think many things about him but he's clearly not stupid.

Oh yeah... so when is Gitmo going to be closed, again?
chimera

join:2009-06-09
Washington, DC

Lost my Vote

If this keeps going forward he's lost my vote. The damning thing about this is that both major parties would still force this through in the name of national security, but I can't vote for anyone who wants this in good conscience.
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

Re: Lost my Vote

said by chimera:

If this keeps going forward he's lost my vote. The damning thing about this is that both major parties would still force this through in the name of national security, but I can't vote for anyone who wants this in good conscience.
then he should have already lost your vote. Obama has not only continued the same policies Bush had in place, but has actively worked to increase the capability for illegal wiretapping.

now they are using the state secrets claim to prevent any ruling on whether or not the U.S. govt can kill a U.S. citizen with no judicial process.

make no mistake: there is absolutely no difference between the two administrations in this area and if anything, Obama has been more aggressive in defending and expanding executive power in the name of the 'war on terror'.

this is just the latest in an ongoing process.

swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia

1 recommendation

There is some hope: »news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20017671-281.html : "a federal appeals court has ruled that encryption code is protected by the First Amendment's guarantee of freedom of speech, meaning that open-source developers may be able to continue to produce secure software."

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA

Re: Lost my Vote

I'd like to see them stopped. If I knew how to program I'd be writing encryption software myself... regardless of what uncle sam says.
gorehound

join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME
this bill will also try to cripple the P2P stuff.This government really sucks the big one.
we need to vote the two major parties out of washington.no more democrats and no more republicans.both are just tools of corporate crud and do not represent the people of this country

Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House
said by chimera:

If this keeps going forward he's lost my vote.
But why?
If you supported candidate Obama for his rare Senate vote in support of massive NSA wiretapping; why would this be a problem for you?

No disrespect, but this is kind of an odd time to raise a privacy concern.

NV
--
Any Goal that is Driven by Animosity, is Empowered through Deceit.
chimera

join:2009-06-09
Washington, DC

1 recommendation

Re: Lost my Vote

While I'm not a fan of wiretapping I consider it within the bounds of the existing environment of paranoia and understanding. Everyone already understands that phone conversations could be monitored, but that doing so requires a large number of man-hours to do so.

This would require programmers to rebuild countless pieces of software from the ground up while making them less secure and more vulnerable to attack. To be honest I don't have a huge problem with the NSA listening in on someone's blackberry messenger emails, but I do have a massive problem with them forcing the developers to create a glaring security hole that could be exploited by others.

This also leads to the possibility of data mining to a degree which is impossible with any other form of communication. To do this for the postal system a person would be needed to open, scan and reseal every envelope. To do with with phones would require countless terabytes worth of audio stored or highly unreliable text to speech software used to record data and tens of thousands of computers to do it.

Doing this with emails and and other previously secure text based systems would require a million dollars or so worth of hardware. That's chump change and that's too cheap for something that could be abused so easily.

So to summarize the three reasons this causes this response are:

1. It will require a massive cost as developers need to rework all previously secure software.
2. It will create security holes in this software.
3. It makes the cost of data collection far too low to prevent abuse in the case of a warrantless wiretap.

Fritz Owl

@sonic.net

VPNs


One thing the government certainly cannot restrict is VPNs, lest they want to raise the ire of big business

People will simply go to offshore VPN providers there are a number of the around

Parogadi
What? Stop Looking At Me Like That
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Racine, WI

Re: VPNs

And when all public devices are backdoored and they force IPv6? The general public has no idea what a VPN is, and you'll be caught up for trying to Google it.

Murdoc
Premium
join:2009-02-08
Manitowoc, WI

Another way to silence free speech huh?

Smugglers? That's the reason? Must mean to track down them free thinkers speaking out against crap like this.

FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

3 edits

ISP's can do this - ask RIM

RIM has already done the things being asked for their Blackberry phones in various countries in order to stay in business. So while some will claim technically undoable, or too costly, if mandated by gov't it can be done. Here is what is being asked for:

¶ Communications services that encrypt messages must have a way to unscramble them.

¶ Foreign-based providers that do business inside the United States must install a domestic office capable of performing intercepts.

¶ Developers of software that enables peer-to-peer communication must redesign their service to allow interception.

The smaller ISP's will find it difficult but the FBI had already set aside millions to assist them for the 1994 CALEA law. This new law will just be more penalizing for non-compliance. But the requirements already exist in the law and have withstood court challenges.
»www.fcc.gov/calea/

dslcreature
Premium
join:2010-07-10
Seattle, WA

Re: ISP's can do this - ask RIM

In the CALEA law it is only the responsibility of the telecom to provide decryption keys if they have said keys to provide in the first place.

From my read your trying to assert this is just an additional grant of authority when in fact they are orthagonal issues.

Specifically conducting a wiretap is separate concept from a law requiring all software companies to provide the means to embark a private encrypted communication. ISPs are not software or "information service" companies.

It's illogical and unreasonable to require a Telecom to know or possess all keys for all data transiting their network.

It's illogical and unreasonable to expect software produced in other countries not subject to intercept would not be readily available to US citizens.

You can technically get away with making US based "information services" such as facebook comply with such requirements but all this does is push illicit communication out to foreign "information services" where the influence of US based LEA is lower and more complex.
Halfdead14

join:2009-03-01
Paso Robles, CA

Ridiculous

This is pathetic, we can't get anything else done as a nation except budding into everyone's privacy.
GroovyPhoenx

join:2006-05-22
Gloucester, ON

Re: Ridiculous

said by Halfdead14:

This is pathetic, we can't get anything else done as a nation except budding into everyone's privacy.
Tongue firmly in cheek! And what are you hiding you worry about needs of privacy? I mean didn't you know that the govt analizes even the crap that is flushed down the toilet for possible leads into drug rings and other nefarious plots?!

Mirazh

join:2001-03-01
Mountain View, CA

Re: Ridiculous

An essential part of capitalism is the competitive edge.

Your every word tracked, logged, categorized and analyzed via computer to let those in control and access of such technology and who have already established connections in an industry you're trying to brake into with your product.

Government colluding with corporations...NAH.. Never!

HA.

The only NEW companies that will SEEM to innovate in the future will be those who have been given the green light via politics through buying off the people.

While I agree privacy is pretty much dead, that does not mean we should go ahead and give a green light to people, government or corporations to legally partake in exploiting it.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere.

If not, then there is really no need to even create when someone else can easily steal or buy off your idea from collected communication between you and your fledgling business/partners etc.

We used to despise monopolies in our society, because we once understood the corruption of control and how that philosophy actually steals freedoms from those who are born later on.

It seems these days do to fear of competition and the unknown people have taken stock in corruption.

I suppose only when we have few meaningful choices left in our lives will we wake up and see our mistakes of today.

And don't even get me started about the ridiculous patent laws/business practices. Its on the same wave length.

Murdoc
Premium
join:2009-02-08
Manitowoc, WI

Is there any groups out there fighting against this?

Where do I find them at? And whos for this bill?

KodiacZiller
Premium
join:2008-09-04
73368
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Re: Is there any groups out there fighting against this?

said by Murdoc:

Where do I find them at? And whos for this bill?
Yes, the EFF is on the front lines in regard to cyber privacy rights. They are the ACLU of the Internet and have taken issues like this to court numerous times. If these things concern you, I highly suggest you and others make donations to the foundation.
--
Getting people to stop using windows is more or less the same as trying to get people to stop smoking tobacco products. They dont want to change; they are happy with slowly dying inside. -- munky99999

Murdoc
Premium
join:2009-02-08
Manitowoc, WI

Re: Is there any groups out there fighting against this?

Thanks

dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO

it's ok... they are good guys...

As you know they would never bypass warrants (or general 3rd party/judicial oversight) since that's one of our rights as a citizen!

... and even if they did say for some very important reason (that they couldn't tell us)... everything would get sorted out properly... they would never grant blanket immunity for said law breakers... come on... you guys worry too much
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

encryption illegal

So PGP is now illegal just as it was 15 years ago?

I'm waiting for it to be revealed that the FBI and CIA have Verisigns and Thwate and Equifax and Geotrusts private key and can spoof anyone in the world. Also Intel has a list of all the TPM endorsement key in all the TPM chips in the world ready to be subpoenaed.

KodiacZiller
Premium
join:2008-09-04
73368
kudos:2

Re: encryption illegal

said by patcat88:

So PGP is now illegal just as it was 15 years ago?
No, it's not illegal now and I doubt it will ever be. The government lost this fight in the 90's when they put Phil Zimmerman in jail (the inventor of PGP). The Feds eventually dropped their case because they knew it was a losing battle (you know, that pesky thing called the 1st amendment).

I'm waiting for it to be revealed that the FBI and CIA have Verisigns and Thwate and Equifax and Geotrusts private key and can spoof anyone in the world. Also Intel has a list of all the TPM endorsement key in all the TPM chips in the world ready to be subpoenaed.
I do not doubt any of those things. This is why the Certificate Authority model sucks. Who watches the watchers? Who verifies that the CA's are not giving out their private keys and forging certs for LEA's? Hell, who even knows if some of the CA's are not actually ran by the Feds? We don't. We have to trust, and trust is a very bad practice when trying to secure data.

Again, we have been down this road at least twice in the 90's (Zimmerman and also the Clipper Chip) and the government gave up then. The encryption cat is out of the bag and it ain't going back in. It's impossible to regulate information and knowledge that has been on the Internet for decades. If they take down PGP, people will just use GnuPG and other free alternatives where the developers have no commercial interests and can't be bullied.
--
Getting people to stop using windows is more or less the same as trying to get people to stop smoking tobacco products. They dont want to change; they are happy with slowly dying inside. -- munky99999
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
said by patcat88:

So PGP is now illegal just as it was 15 years ago?
You've got your facts wrong. It was never illegal per se. The legal question was around the export of encryption algorithms outside the USA, which was restricted by law at that time. (It is still restricted but the rules are much more lenient, and current PGP implementations are exportable to most countries/entities.)

It's quite clear to me at least that Zimmerman did violate the export regulations at that time, however a case was never prosecuted.

tiredtired99

@bellsouth.net

2 recommendations

planted traditional bugs

"because smugglers used peer-to-peer software" to communicate -- forcing the agents to use traditional bugs.

So they had to get off their fat arses and get in a car and drive down to the subjects location and actually look at them and spy on them like they are supposed to do in the first place? Sounds like more fat old guys that don't want to work. Hey if we hire some of those smugglers to work in the old guys govt jobs we can pay them less and they will probably do the job as it was meant to be done instead of sitting in front of a computer all day.

If the fuzz can't tail someone successfully then the fuzz lost fair and square. That alone should be the thrill of the job for them but no they have to be control freaks these days. Gotta know everything without working hard to know it in the first place. Sounds like they have been taking some lessons from our greedy american bashing CEOs that do nothing while getting millions and keeping their job too.

Camaro
Question everything
Premium
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA
kudos:1

Re: planted traditional bugs

Damn right lazy bastards,but the fact of matter is the FBI has wanted the master keys for years ever since a common US citizen could pronounce the word encryption.

koam
Pink Pecker
Premium
join:2000-08-16
East Puddle

1 recommendation

Headline

2 Years ago the headline here would have read "Bush & Cheney Want Easier Internet Wiretapping".

Uncle Sam is now Obama & Holder. The real Uncle Sam wouldn't go for this shit.
milkman82

join:2006-06-19
Cleveland, OH

Better story next time.

This story sucks on dslreports, I found a couple different news websites to have more detail on this issue.

old_dawg
"I Know Noting..."

join:2001-09-22
Westminster, MD

Hope & Change?

WHAT?, Bush didn't do it? I thought this was all hope and change, stop the seas from rising, transparent gummint?.
--
"Our network engineers are aware of the problem..."

zalternate

join:2007-02-22
freedom land

ultimate power

Once G.W. Bush gave the CIA and FBI and police ultimate power after 9/11, it is something that they will never release hold of.
So unless future governments openly restrict powers that the CIA and FBI were given, except the governments will then appear weak in mandating the restrictions.

So publicize the original perpetrator of the acts against law abiding people and don't make it the blame game against anyone who follows the original war monger that removed your Rights and Freedoms under the guise of your neighbor being the biggest terrorist in the world, even that she is 94 years old and white.
Once your Rights and Freedoms have been taken away via "security" and "safety", it takes many years to get it back in some very small form.

Why is the digital world of communications not protected by the Law? Well actually it is. But since the wording is not exact, we are all convicted criminals, subject to monitoring at the whim of someone who doesn't care about our Rights and Freedoms.
--
Consumer Rights is more than just a suggestion.

fg

@rr.com

Re: ultimate power

By your logic we should be blaming Abraham Lincoln!
dforan

join:2000-12-09
Willoughby, OH

This might be GOOD Ha Ha

What will Uncls Sam do with all the spam.. Maybe the Uncle Sam can figure that one out HA

nyc guy

@verizon.net

Encrypt it.

Just start to encrypt everything, email, turn it on for P2P, whole drive encryption, etc etc. Encryption is the one thing the NSA/CIA dread, and they have tried and failed in the past to outlaw such software. It is the one thing they cant defeat on a large scale as to data mine mass amounts of info. Imaging if all traffic was encrypted, I can see there grumpy long faces now.

Belinrahs
I have an ego the size of a small planet
Premium
join:2007-09-07
Nashville, MI
Reviews:
·FreedomNet Wirel..

1 recommendation

Ridiculous

Full disclosure: I consider myself a Dem. However requiring all devices and services to be wiretap-ready is a bit too much and I would not be in support of that in any way! If this bill were to pass, I would say hasta la vista, "by the people, for the people" when 90%+ of the people would be strongly against such a measure.
--
Running on a Motorola Canopy WISP!
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5

2 recommendations

Move along. Nothing to see here.

The government has ALWAYS been able, at some level, to intercept communications. First telegraph messages, then cables, then phone calls. This is really just more of the same.

Intercepting communications is one of the big tools that law enforcement and counterterrorism has, and it's not a political, Republican vs. Democrat thing. Nor is it new because of the Internet, encryption software, or 9/11. It's something that's been important for a long time for crime prevention and prosecution, and national security.

The Internet is not magically in some alternate universe where normal rules don't apply, despite what you may think.

As long as we have governments, wars, terrorism, and crimes, we will have communications interception. Most other countries are more open about it than we are, probably because of the knee-jerk reaction you get in this country when the subject is brought up.

Frankly, whether the FBI or NSA has the ability to read/listen to/watch my stuff, with the appropriate controls and orders in place, is about 487th on my list of things to worry about.

•••••••

Geminimind
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Sacramento, CA

HECK NO

KEEP YOUR GOVERNMENT HANDS OFF MY DAMN INTERNET. lol

zen1

@optonline.net

NONSENSE

damn, didn't they get ANY technical input before they came up with this nonsense?. this would ONLY allow them to monitor the communications of most regular people, TERRORISTS etc. WILL use encryption!!. how could this make any sense, unless they want to listen to the latest cake recipes or something!.

••••