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Comments on news posted 2010-10-25 09:24:42: Last week we noted that Verizon lost 165,000 DSL users during the third quarter, the company telling Broadband Reports than only about 20-25% of those subscribers upgraded to Verizon FiOS. ..

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axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

axus

Member

Perhaps they hope everyone will switch to wireless

Telcos have wireless, cable does not. So, telcos would love to see everyone drop wired connections and get everything over the airwaves. Where network neutrality rules shouldn't apply, of course.

Wireless is cool, but for anything that really needs 100mbps, I think I'd prefer a wired connection.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

Re: Perhaps they hope everyone will switch to wireless

The telco providing service here, CenturyLink does not have any association with wireless service providers. When Centurylink merged with Quest they hitched their wagon to a dead horse. You will soon hear a loud sucking sound as companies like Verizon and AT&T take suck up DSL Customers when the cost for LTE and WiMax becomes competitive with DSL. I have been considering signing up with Millenicom so I can take my broadband connection with me. Companies like Frontier and Fairpoint will find many of their customers bailing out of DSL as long as the price is right and 4G Service Providers do not impose ridiculously low CAPS. I believe that one reason that Verizon and AT&T have not increased deployment of FIOS and U-verse is that they believe that the future is wireless broadband and that they do not want to hitch their wagon to a dead horse.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Perhaps they hope everyone will switch to wireless

said by Mr Matt:

I believe that one reason that Verizon and AT&T have not increased deployment of FIOS and U-verse is that they believe that the future is wireless broadband and that they do not want to hitch their wagon to a dead horse.
I believe you are right. It is MUCH cheaper to deploy broadband that way, with a lot less problems signing right of way deals with local gov'ts. The only problem with the wireless plan is the ever increasing noise they will get over antenna placement and the wacko groups starting wireless is giving cancer to my baby lawsuits.
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99

Member

Re: Perhaps they hope everyone will switch to wireless

makes me wonder where the hell they get funds for these frivolous lawsuits. They are not cheap. At worst they should be able just to protest.

At least there is not many of them. Not in Midwest for sure.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

1 recommendation

en102 to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
I think that in general, rural wireless 'should' be much cheaper for both voice and data to support than POTS/DSL as well as cable /HSI/voice.

Personally, I suspect that VZW knew this a long time ago, and planned for this with their sale of POTS/DSL to Frontier. If I thought of it - I would expect that those highly paid folks in the war room at VZ/VZW would have.

trainwreck6
join:2010-09-21
off track

trainwreck6 to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
Wireless makes you vote Republican.

DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA

DavePR to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
That is completely delusional. There is not enough spectrum and 4G doesn't penetrate the suburbs any better than DSL or CATV. Wireless broadband will always have a "premium" price.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: Perhaps they hope everyone will switch to wireless

Many that live in the 'suburbs' of a moderate sized city would most likely have cable and/or DSL. Many that live in more rural areas, or smaller towns not near a decent sized city are probably stuck with either DSL (if they can get it) or cable by a local mom/pop company (if they are within the town limits). Nothing wrong with that, in general, but if you can't get decent service on DSL/Cable, why not use wireless ?
I will agree that it can require a premium cost. Places like Canyon Country, CA have both Uverse and TWC offering high speed. If you were somewhere around CA-58 and US 395, your choices may be limited. The same goes with many rural areas across the country that telcos/cablecos won't invest due to lower population density and cost of deployment/support.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·StarLink

SimbaSeven to axus

Member

to axus
said by axus:

Telcos have wireless, cable does not. So, telcos would love to see everyone drop wired connections and get everything over the airwaves. Where network neutrality rules shouldn't apply, of course.

Wireless is cool, but for anything that really needs 100mbps, I think I'd prefer a wired connection.
You forgot to mention their wonderful 2GB Cap (at&t) or 5GB Cap (Verizon, everyone else). Then they can charge you as much as they want if you go over.

Only one that won't sock you with overages so far is CricKet (which isn't available here).

jchambers28
Premium Member
join:2007-05-12
Peculiar, MO

1 recommendation

jchambers28

Premium Member

DSL is on it's death bed

Lets face it DSL is on it's death bed. The Telcos will have to sped money to upgrade their networks or get left behind.

AMDUSER
Premium Member
join:2003-05-28
Earth,
ARRIS CM8200
ARRIS SB6183

1 edit

AMDUSER

Premium Member

Re: DSL is on it's death bed

Click for full size
Charter Speeds / Pricing

Frontier Speeds / Pricing
It wouldn't surprise me if Frontier had a problem with it, Charters' WI operations for its cable internet is already faster than Frontiers DSL..
In some parts of WI, Frontier has competition from Time Warner Cable as well.

As you can see, would you rather pay about $30 for 3 Meg DSL or about $30 for 8 Meg /1 Meg cable internet..
n2ubp
join:2007-07-13
Middletown, NY

n2ubp

Member

Re: DSL is on it's death bed

In my area a combined POTS / ADSL connection from Frontier also includes about $17 in fees, surcharges, and taxes.. The numbers don't say it all...

IowaMan
Premium Member
join:2008-08-21
Grinnell, IA

IowaMan

Premium Member

Re: DSL is on it's death bed

Agree with everyone else.
My area has Windstream
3Mb/768 $40
6 Mb/768 $45
12/768 $50

and Mediacom
3Mb/256 $30
12Mb/1 $47
20/2 $60
ncbill
Premium Member
join:2007-01-23
Winston Salem, NC

ncbill

Premium Member

Re: DSL is on it's death bed

promo $14.95/month for AT&T DSL up to 3MBps (no one here provisions for 6MBps)

Dry-loop for the same price (no phone service required).

DSL remains the cheapest broadband internet service.

I'm betting the above 'promo' price becomes permanently available, given the slowness of DSL vs. cable/fiber.

Eagles1221
join:2009-04-29
Vincentown, NJ

Eagles1221 to AMDUSER

Member

to AMDUSER
I'd pay 19.99 for 384/1.0 DSL.

AMDUSER
Premium Member
join:2003-05-28
Earth,

AMDUSER

Premium Member

Re: DSL is on it's death bed

Locally, I could get 6 Meg/768k DSL from AT&T w/o phone service for $19.99... not a bad deal.. very affordable.

dogtech7
Let Us Build It
join:2002-06-08
Toledo, OH

dogtech7 to jchambers28

Member

to jchambers28
They will not get left behind....att/verizon have a wireless business that is way more profitable than any wireline business and that includes cable.

Camelot One
MVM
join:2001-11-21
Bloomington, IN

1 recommendation

Camelot One

MVM

Fios I get, but uVerse?

If Verizon ever stops with the crazy billing "mistakes" and lousy customer service, Fios will be a rock solid product. So I understand why those in Fios markets, once switching to Fios, are happy.

But uVerse is just rebranded DSL. (speed wise) I'm not sure AT&T customers are going to be happy with those speeds for very long.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Fios I get, but uVerse?

because ATT has customers thinking that U-Verse is ALL FTTH. they will tell you ANYTHING to get you to buy the product. 2 years ago they were telling people that they had to sign up with U-Verse if they still wanted to get their TV channels as they were an all digital product and cable wasn't and they'd lose TV. Some people also don't like the local cable company; some hate the telco. I for one hate the local telco.
jkeelsnc
join:2008-08-22
Greensboro, NC

jkeelsnc

Member

figures

Is it any wonder? I had AT&T DSL for years without any serious problems. Then all of a sudden I started having disconnects and my connection down for a day at a time sometimes when I have work to do. I called tech support and checked my inside wiring etc many times over and the problem persisted. I simply ran out of time to deal with it and noticed that I was getting many PADT disconnects. Well, I don't know whose fault it was but finally just cancelled my connection and went with TWC. AT&T after that didn't even bother to try to do anything. TWC has its own issues. But with this kind of attitude and constant problems then what can you do (I had the same line for a year without problems and then all of a sudden problems, even tried a different modem, wiring from outside box, etc). Add to this that they cannot offer comparable speeds at comparable pricing and it adds insult to injury. Good riddens.
cerone
join:2001-10-28
Hollywood, FL

cerone

Member

Re: figures

DSL...Damn Slow Line...I had DSL for a very long time, since it became the greatest thing next to sliced bread. The area where I live is served on copper from the CO, what a pain in the neck. I "had" 1.5Mbps with my DSL. Everytime it rained I would loose sync. For years I tried to get Bellsouth and now at&t to atleast upgrade the system in my area but nothing was ever done. Then Uverse came around...is it available in my area? NOPE...

I was on a personal boycot on Comcast for many, many years...guess what I did...I became a Comcast Internet subscriber...WOW is all I can say!!!
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

gaforces (banned)

Member

The slow boat

Weeee

anonafac
@verizon.net

anonafac

Anon

what fios!!! from verizon yeah ok!

What fios verizon hasn't even thought about wiring for fios in brooklyn new york city in an area that has a massive construction and renovation in the area where homes an apartment are in the million dollar plus range. verizon reminds me of the kid who gets a jelly donut and eats the jelly and leave the rest for the garbage. i think they verizon are waiting for the tax payers of nyc to foot the bill to wire the city.And just for the record i called last month to see if i could get fios. and the answer i get from a rep is well not yet can i interest you in something else that's just as good, meaning dsl. So i do not know what verizons talking about because we have no fios in our area of new york city. and my friend in the next apartment over on my floor has been calling verizon for a few years trying to get dsl and they keep telling her we do not offer dsl in your area funny...I'm using verizon dsl and have had it for years so whats up with this verizon . i see no real truth in anything verizon says or does.
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99

Member

Re: what fios!!! from verizon yeah ok!

Thats like, if Verizon was in Chicago, they wired parts of Gold Coast and River North, but left Lincoln Park and Lakeview behind!

Pathfinder5
Dazed Confused
Premium Member
join:2000-03-26
New York, NY

Pathfinder5 to anonafac

Premium Member

to anonafac
Verizon installed 559 new FIOS customers in Brooklyn last week. I don't know where you live but it is all over Brooklyn.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

1 recommendation

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: what fios!!! from verizon yeah ok!

not that big of a number. Considering i've seen MSOs sign up customers faster than that when they expand- WOW signed up 700 in 3 days when they moved to my city.

Talk about numbers. VZ's product isn't taking off like they hoped. They only moved to FTTH to get rid of the line share agreements with DSL and to be on their own. Was a win win for them. Customer's still got stuck with the same ol' telco who could careless about anything but the profit moving in.

FiOS will be dead--as far as expanding anymore after most of their NYC agreement has been met. After that if you don't have it now- there will be a good 98% chance you'll never see it and will be sold off.

runzero
join:2005-09-16
DC

2 edits

runzero

Member

Re: what fios!!! from verizon yeah ok!

said by hottboiinnc4:

FiOS will be dead--as far as expanding anymore after most of their NYC agreement has been met. After that if you don't have it now- there will be a good 98% chance you'll never see it and will be sold off.
I believe there's something called "the future." You've also been repeating that "sold off" phrase a lot around the news areas; you do realize it's only the rural Verizon territories that were sold off, with the exception of some <1% of non-profitable FiOS areas in Oregon and Washington? Take Los Angeles, for example. It may be out west, but it's a huge market for FiOS, which is why they chose to keep it.

Pathfinder5
Dazed Confused
Premium Member
join:2000-03-26
New York, NY

Pathfinder5 to hottboiinnc4

Premium Member

to hottboiinnc4
said by hottboiinnc4:

not that big of a number. Considering i've seen MSOs sign up customers faster than that when they expand- WOW signed up 700 in 3 days when they moved to my city.
How much competition did WQW have at the time? And did they have the installation process that FIOS does?

ropeguru
Premium Member
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

ropeguru

Premium Member

Duh...

That says it all...
robd4
join:2007-07-10
Oak Creek, WI

robd4

Member

HMMMM

Didnt AT&T and the others get stimuls money for this like two times now? what about the areas where cable is not an option att should start to pushk out DSL there
Bob61571
join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL

Bob61571

Member

"Frontier's only saving grace is they face low-quality

competition in many markets"
from Karl's commentary above.

Frontier's biggest cable competitors in Central Illinois are Comcast and Mediacom.
Per consumer surveys by JD Power and Consumer Reports,
Karl has it about right on these 2 Frontier cable competitors.
ricklerre
join:2009-06-22
Brooklyn, NY

ricklerre

Member

Bad Math

Karl, your math is wrong. The linked response says 25% of their FiOS additions are from existing DSL customers.

(25%*226,000)/165,000 = 34.2%

so, about 35% of the customers upgraded to Fios, not 20-25%
dstke
join:2010-02-10
San Francisco, CA

dstke

Member

AT&T DSL Deal

I dropped my analog lines and basic dsl service for dry loop dsl. I got DSL Pro for $5 less per month than the slower basic. DSL elite runs the same price as my old basic with 6mb down and 768kb up.

wcweaver
Premium Member
join:2002-02-22
Fort Myers, FL

wcweaver

Premium Member

CenturyLink DSL

I live in an area that used to be Embarq. Now it is CenturyLink. We are in a peculiar situation. CenturyLink can only deliver 512 Kbs even though they advertise sell it as 1.5. People don't seem to know about speed tests. I have neighbors that have CenturyLink DSL and they are amazed at the my internet speeds. Many have, as a result went to Comcast.

The subdivision about a mile further down the road served by the same CO can get 6MB. All of the telephone cables from our CO go down the road at the entrance to our subdivision. I-75 separates us from the CO (about a quarter mile south of I-75) and all the cabling comes under the I-75 overpass and then down the street to our subdivision

CenturyLink will not spend any money to give us faster speeds. Therefore Comcast supplies 6/1 which although more expensive has almost all of the customers. At least those that know anything about internet speeds. Some don't care as all they do is check their email.

I spoke with several of the CenturyLink technicians at lunch one day and they said the copper in our subdivision is so bad it even effects voice quality is poor (Ihave VOIP) and CenturyLink is steadily losing POTS customers to VOIP mainly Comcast phone.

As I stated in a prior post, I hope a viable competitor would buy CenturyLink as true competition is the only thing that will improve this ridiculous situation.
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

2 edits

chgo_man99

Member

Re: CenturyLink DSL

And I want to move to Des Moines, IA if I get a job at Drake University. Nice college town and some parts of neighborhood are served with fiber to the home (or fast VDSL) Qwest 40/5. But since they got bought by CenturyLink I wonder if their service won't go downhill.

The only other alternative is Mediacom 20/2.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4 to wcweaver

Member

to wcweaver
read: up to. and DSL always has that HUGE range for speed. Much depends on where you're at from the CO.

Pashune
Caps stifle innovation
Premium Member
join:2006-04-14
Gautier, MS

Pashune

Premium Member

It's their fault...

...for not getting me speeds faster than 1.5 mbit fast enough.

I said bye to DSL 2 years ago.. and what do ya know, they start installing VRads all over town all of the sudden. I'm not falling for it; I'm too busy enjoying my 10/1 cable connection.

Besides, I've already checked several addresses for DSL direct speeds; all I can still ever find is 1.5 mbit and 3 mbit, which is useless and unstable due to high line attenuation.
FloridaBoy
join:2009-06-22
Bradenton, FL

FloridaBoy

Member

Just Curious

Someone, in another thread, posted the Verizon Results from the quarter. Looking them over, I see Verizon grew consumer revenue 1.1%. I was surprised really because I thought they had been bleeding too many landline customers for that. Has Fios reached a point it can now offset those losses?? If so, you have to think they made the right choice even if the growth isnt that great. Anything positive in comsumer has to be good news.

bosKarl
@army.mil

bosKarl

Anon

Why I dumped DSL...

No FIOS here (1 mile from the Pentagon as the crow flies). It is either Comcast or Verizon DSL.

Had DSL, but in Northern VA service from Verizon is a disaster. Within a neighborhood that was built in the 1920s, the infrastructure is not the best and phone lines are noisy. Call up Verizon and they give you the day they're gunna show. No two or four hour window, just the day (stopping at 5PM). Mon through Fri only. So you get to take the day off work.

Which I did, and it ended with a no show. Service cancelled.

Comcast here is FAR from perfect, but at least you can schedule on a weekend and you're given a two hour window. It's like Verizon wants to drive people off.

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

aaronwt

Premium Member

Re: Why I dumped DSL...

said by bosKarl :

No FIOS here (1 mile from the Pentagon as the crow flies). It is either Comcast or Verizon DSL.

Had DSL, but in Northern VA service from Verizon is a disaster. Within a neighborhood that was built in the 1920s, the infrastructure is not the best and phone lines are noisy. Call up Verizon and they give you the day they're gunna show. No two or four hour window, just the day (stopping at 5PM). Mon through Fri only. So you get to take the day off work.

Which I did, and it ended with a no show. Service cancelled.

Comcast here is FAR from perfect, but at least you can schedule on a weekend and you're given a two hour window. It's like Verizon wants to drive people off.
Verizon here in wodbridge schedules weekend appointments

RA Voda
@clearwire-wmx.net

RA Voda to bosKarl

Anon

to bosKarl
Have you checked into offerings from Clear?
dlsnyder
join:2007-08-27
Moreno Valley, CA

1 recommendation

dlsnyder

Member

DSL not dead yet

For the value oriented non-techie customer, DSL still offers a significant value proposition. FiOS and cable offer service speeds that are far in excess of what many people need, which is basic connectivity for email, web browsing, and the occasional file transfer (like OS updates and such). Cable in my area offers a basic tier that matches basic DSL speed, but costs $10 more per month, even when bundled with TV service.

Zuben
@qwest.net

Zuben

Anon

Re: DSL not dead yet

I agree. I want no part of Comcast or any other that tries to upsell channels when there's nothing on them? We've seen the majority of the stuff on the road, and except for footbal/baseball, the local PBS is a helluva lot better and more interesting

larry111q
@lgk.com

larry111q

Anon

ya right

fios reaches 60% of their footprint because they sold off the majority of the footprint that doesnt have fios.
jakesta45
join:2010-10-11
Lac Du Flambeau, WI

jakesta45

Member

Wait.....what?

"Frontier's only saving grace is they face low-quality competition in many markets, though cable service extends to roughly 97% of the country."

So I live 3 miles outside of my town and I'm part of the 3%?????????????????????

WHT
join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX

WHT

Member

Footprints are not footprints

quote:
Verizon says FiOS now reaches 60% of their footprint
You can look at a map and tell that's obviously not geographical footprints. What they mean is customer base, or it could be even any other numeric value that impresses investors. Like when AT&T used minutes of cell phone use as a metric for market penetration.
WhatNow
Premium Member
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

WhatNow

Premium Member

New England

Not sure which state maybe Vermont but did they not announce a bunch of the small towns were going to build a FTTH to every customer that had a phone or power. That would sink Frontier.

In semi-rural areas just past the burbs some form of wireless is the best bet. Until you get FTTH the distance or density between houses is just too far for copper based systems to offer any speed above 3 maybe 6 meg.
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