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Comments on news posted 2010-11-19 13:27:32: It's been somewhat entertaining watching Frontier Communications lately, given they've been working overtime to downplay the fact that the vast majority of the company's customers still reside on frequently expensive, last-generation 1. ..

page: 1 · 2
rifleman69

join:2006-04-12
Beaverton, OR

1 recommendation

Cuckoo

She's cuckoo! Can Frontier offer DSL to former FiOS customers who don't have the copper anymore without having to reinstall a new copper connection?

Chris 313
Come get some
Premium
join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Vonage
·Comcast
·Comcast Digital ..

1 recommendation

Re: Cuckoo

said by rifleman69:

She's cuckoo! Can Frontier offer DSL to former FiOS customers who don't have the copper anymore without having to reinstall a new copper connection?

I doubt it. I certainly wouldn't go back to copper if I had Fiber.

IowaMan
Premium
join:2008-08-21
Grinnell, IA

Re: Cuckoo

If I had fiber I would certainly go for it. The DSL tops out at 12Mb and Cable is 20Mb. I would be very happy with a 15/5 fiber connection though.

speedhacksn

@comcast.net

Re: Cuckoo

No, you wouldn't... I HAD fiber from Frontier. Guess what my speeds were? 3Mbit down... 786kbit up. Yeah. I switched to Comcast. For the life of me I still can't figure out why anybody would chose fiber for a slower connection.

I tried to raise hell with them, didn't work. Oh well...

AMDUSER
Premium
join:2003-05-28
Earth,
kudos:1
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Time Warner Cable
The only " deploys fiber to the home "all across the country that Frontier deploys is for its Ultra long haul [nationwide] backbone.. unless they leased it. [From Level 3, or another provider.]

When Verizon still ran the operations it was estimated that the FTTP FiOS was saving $110 year in maintance costs, per line by switching from copper to fiber optics.

Chris 313
Come get some
Premium
join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Vonage
·Comcast
·Comcast Digital ..

1 recommendation

Smoking?

What is this idiot smoking? If I had a FiOS 50 meg connection, why would I want to downgrade to something slower for the same or only slightly less savings?

Whatever she's smoking that makes this sound like a good idea, I want me some of that!

BBBanditRuR
Dingbits

join:2009-06-02
Parachute, CO

1 recommendation

Re: Smoking?

Well, let's play along with her logic:

50 Mbps is roughly 1 Mbps per $1 ~ $50 so....

It sounds like a FANTASTIC deal with Frontier's DSL @ 6 - 7 Mbps costing $6.99 right!

right?

wrong...

Chris 313
Come get some
Premium
join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Vonage
·Comcast
·Comcast Digital ..

Re: Smoking?

said by BBBanditRuR:

Well, let's play along with her logic:

50 Mbps is roughly 1 Mbps per $1 ~ $50 so....

It sounds like a FANTASTIC deal with Frontier's DSL @ 6 - 7 Mbps costing $6.99 right!

right?

wrong...

I heard that. I remember reading a Frontier article that just about mirrors your math. I wouldn't pay for something that slow, but costs that much.
dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
said by BBBanditRuR:

Well, let's play along with her logic:

50 Mbps is roughly 1 Mbps per $1 ~ $50 so....

It sounds like a FANTASTIC deal with Frontier's DSL @ 6 - 7 Mbps costing $6.99 right!

right?

wrong...

Trying to price broadband as dollars per Mbps isn't valid, and never has been. It would be like saying that a car with a 100 horsepower engine should only cost 1/3 as much as the same car with a 300 horsepower motor.

BBBanditRuR
Dingbits

join:2009-06-02
Parachute, CO

Re: Smoking?

said by BBBanditRuR :

Well, let's play along with her logic:

The hint is in bold.

Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
Even then.. Let's look at actual math here..

$40 for her 7mbps (if that) DSL connection = $5.14/mbps
$90 (or $140) for a 50/20mbps FiOS connection = $1.79 (or $2.80)/mbps
..or.. $65 for a 20/20mbps FiOS connection = $3.25/mbps

Still.. the FiOS connection still is cheaper per mbps and there's no chance in hell they can shove 50mbps (let alone 20mbps) though copper with usable distance.
--
Bresnan 18M/1M
MyWS[E5200@3.75GHz,4GB RAM,2x1TB HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2GHz,2GB RAM,120GB HDD,Win7]
Router[2xP3@1GHz,512MB RAM,18GB HDD,SMC 8432BTA,2xDigital DE504,Compaq NC3131,Intel Pro/1000MT,IBM Gigabit Ethernet-SX,Allied Telesyn AT2560FX,Gentoo Linux]
dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

Re: Smoking?

said by Simba7:

Even then.. Let's look at actual math here..

$40 for her 7mbps (if that) DSL connection = $5.14/mbps
$90 (or $140) for a 50/20mbps FiOS connection = $1.79 (or $2.80)/mbps
..or.. $65 for a 20/20mbps FiOS connection = $3.25/mbps

Still.. the FiOS connection still is cheaper per mbps and there's no chance in hell they can shove 50mbps (let alone 20mbps) though copper with usable distance.

Tell it to the 20M and 40M VDSL2 (over copper) connections I see every day.

Yes, faster connections are going to have a lower cost per Mbps- but that's irrelevant because you don't have the option of paying by Mbps. For those who don't require faster speeds or are looking for a cheaper alternative, the price per month is all they're concerned with.
sbcretired

join:2006-01-07
Scottville, MI

Re: Smoking?

If you dont have a problem spending money go fast, but if you have a budget, a 1.5 dsl maybe all we can afford. I am sure that would be around $25 mo, maybe less.
dishrich

join:2006-05-12
Springfield, IL
said by Chris 313:

What is this idiot smoking?

WOW, she's the Carly Fiorina of Telco's...

fibreISking

@verizon.net

Re: Smoking?

said by dishrich:

said by Chris 313:

What is this idiot smoking?

WOW, she's the Carly Fiorina of Telco's...

you're giving her too much credit... i'm thinking more along the lines of Darl McBride, former CEO of SCO which tried to sue anybody and everybody (including IBM, and, get this, their OWN customers) using linux, claiming that they owned the copyrights for it.

spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·SureWest Internet
said by Chris 313:

What is this idiot smoking? If I had a FiOS 50 meg connection, why would I want to downgrade to something slower for the same or only slightly less savings?

Whatever she's smoking that makes this sound like a good idea, I want me some of that!

Exactly. When you consider that locally, Frontier charges $49 for barely 3meg dsl and Surewest (which I currently subscribe to) charges $65 for 25/25 synchronous Fiber connection (bundled), it is apparent somebody is smoking the ging on a regular basis. Frontier sucks A-- in so many ways.
--
The weekend is here, grab a can of beer!
Ammler
Premium
join:2005-04-19
Pittsburgh, PA

1 recommendation

Lisa, is that you?

I wonder if she is related to Lisa Hook at all???

Seriously???

BashATT

@alltel.net

Not Just frontier

I see alot of "Frontier" bashing here lately and it's rather... frustrating because they are not the only one with these problems. Whats worse is the other company (ATT) has lived with these problems and admits there is a problem but refuses to address it.

AT&T in a lot of places barely has 28.8kbps internet much less DSL, at least Frontier is trying.

Yeah I know AT&T says "We are putting UVerse Everywhere" but at the same time they said in 2002 we would have DSL... Yeah right...
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Not Just frontier

You can't bash, ATT, VZ, or Google on this site. Especially Google (Justin uses them for Adwords and you can't make Google mad when they control your paycheck).

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

Re: Not Just frontier

Yeah. AT&T and Verizon NEVER get bashed here.

mr_slick

join:2003-05-22
Lynnwood, WA

please dont take my low speed fiber!

i only have the 15/5 connection and used to have 10/2. I dont need any faster but i sure as hell dont want to go back to an interleaved 3/.768 line! The 10/2 was the perfect price/speed point for me and now after being 'forced' to upgrade the 15/5 is not bad... Beats dsl or comcast.

NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1

Sell FiOS business (internet & cable TV) back to Verizon

Sell FiOS business (internet & cable TV) back to Verizon.
rifleman69

join:2006-04-12
Beaverton, OR

Re: Sell FiOS business (internet & cable TV) back to Verizon

Someone else will buy us out, could be a local-utility in the next year or two. Frontier has no idea what to do with us FiOS customers, just like I said back when this deal was first announced.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

Re: Sell FiOS business (internet & cable TV) back to Verizon

Discontinue FIOS. Go back to DSL. Make business model on collect USF subsidies.

pjhofmann

join:2000-08-22
Cary, NC

Re: Sell FiOS business (internet & cable TV) back to Verizon

said by patcat88:

Discontinue FIOS. Go back to DSL. Make business model on collect USF subsidies.

They do that and I'll have to go back to Comcast. I have had two outages from Frontier internet service in the past 2 weeks, hope it's not a harbinger of things to come.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
not a bad idea as VZ and ATT do that now.
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
said by rifleman69:

Someone else will buy us out, could be a local-utility in the next year or two.

You're right and Frontier should probably make some phone calls (starting with AT&T) and see what kind of offer they could get for the fiber neighborhoods.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Sell FiOS business (internet & cable TV) back to Verizon

Will never be sold to any local utlity; let alone ATT.
rifleman69

join:2006-04-12
Beaverton, OR

Re: Sell FiOS business (internet & cable TV) back to Verizon

said by hottboiinnc:

Will never be sold to any local utlity; let alone ATT.

Wanna bet? Pretty sure the Silicon Forest has enough money to tell Frontier to take a hike and let the local municipalities run the fiber.
wasvznowftr

join:2010-07-13
00000

Re: Sell FiOS business (internet & cable TV) back to Verizon

said by rifleman69:

said by hottboiinnc:

Will never be sold to any local utlity; let alone ATT.

Wanna bet? Pretty sure the Silicon Forest has enough money to tell Frontier to take a hike and let the local municipalities run the fiber.

HA! i'll take that bet!! "Silicon Forest"? You mean Washington County? Sorry, don't think so.

Who's going to run it? Contract out to Frontier employees?

Who's going to pop in to manholes and crack open 864 strand distribution fiber cases (which by the way also contains office fiber that runs cell towers, major businesses, etc. Not just fios).

Is Washington County going to rent space in the 16 Central offices that house equipment or just the 9 that inside Washington County. What about the Video Office?

What about the switches in all of the central offices for the phone service? GTD5 and 5ESS switches that handle both the copper and Fios POTS lines. You're right. screw POTS - do VoIP. Go ahead and install all of your soft switches. And be ready to upgrade all of those ONTs that aren't VoIP capable.

Forget phone? No one uses landlines anymore (at least you and your buddies don't, so no one else does)?

Well nearly 2/3s of ONTS have dialtone, so when the "Silicon Forest" buys the fiber network for internet and a dying video product, get ready to piss off most of the subscriber base by telling them to go back to Frontier (or maybe Comcast) for dialtone (and ignore their DSL and cable internet while they're at it).

If there were a way for Verizon to parse out the fiber network and just sell off the copper network, there's a chance they'd still be here. Oregon fios is a success story, believe it or not.

There's no news here, just move along. The CEO is just saying she wants here customers that have a perfectly good copper pair available to buy $30 DSL if they want and not be forced to take a $50 FIOS product - which is basically what Verizon was doing.

firehawk618

join:2003-05-29
Have you seen how hard Frontier is advertising / pusing FiOS to new customers?

I seriously doubt they have any intentions of selling / pulling the plug on it.

alchav

join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT
Reviews:
·ooma
Verizon doesn't want it back, that's why they sold it in the first place! How sad that I was right, Upper Management at Frontier Communications don't have a clue on all this Technology. The Average Person doesn't know or care how they get their Broadband, as long as it's cheap! It also seems that Upper Management at Frontier doesn't have a grasp on Broadband Technology, if they want to go back to Copper DSL. Even if they left the Copper there, I doubt that it's any good. The Market and the Money are not there for FiOS, and the DSL Copper route is costly too.

cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT

2 recommendations

There *is* a market for slower broadband

The reality is that there are plenty of people for whom a fast connection is a waste of money. Granny has no need for 50M, she can get her email on 1.5M as well. I know plenty of people who stick with DSL although faster connections are available.
Personally I had 30/5 OOL, moved and got 18/2 through Uverse - then downgraded to 12/2 for $20 less/month. The reality is that for 99% of use there is no real-life difference when you get past the 6-7M mark.
Unless you are a heavy gamer that isn't willing to throttle down the pr0n downloads while playing or you have a family where 3-4 people have no life, anything faster than 3M will do just fine.

••••••••••••••••••
chgo_man99

join:2010-01-01
San Jose, CA

She's obviously witch

She thinks she got stupid or uneducated customers because most of her service area is rural!

there is only one thing that could shake things up, mandate open line sharing at a reasonable cost to other carriers and encourage competition! But our beloved government will never do that.

In EU, they would already get heavily fined for lying and unhealthy monopolistic practices.
turbobuick86

join:2001-10-09
Whittier, CA

Fios is nice, but things add up differently...

fios triple play for $85? add surtaxes etc., it quickly shoots to over $100. Need a couple HD dvr's, add some more. What is the realistic price for Fios triple play basic with a couple hd dvrs?
miball

join:2005-08-17
Seattle, WA

Fios 20/5

I have FIOS 20/5 for $39.99, where are they getting the $50? No way would you ever convince me to go back to DSL
kevin_pink

join:2006-10-15
Bronx, NY

Re: Fios 20/5

25/15 for $19.99/mo here
not stand-alone of course...
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

dsl would be nice back in this era, no?

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtBBBaHuKXM

Scatcatpdx
Fur It Up

join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR
Reviews:
·Comcast

It about profit

Verizon must be laughing on the way to the bank.
There is many hint that FIOS would be technological marvel but a business and deployment disaster. The elephant in the room Broadband Reports is ignoring is why did Verizon had a fire sale and sold it assets to Frontier after spending so much to deploy FTTH in the first place. The problem is nobody has yet figure how to deploy FTTH cheap enough to make it profitable and convince a majority of residents its a product we want to buy.
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Re: It about profit

said by Scatcatpdx:

The elephant in the room Broadband Reports is ignoring is why did Verizon had a fire sale and sold it assets to Frontier after spending so much to deploy FTTH in the first place. The problem is nobody has yet figure how to deploy FTTH cheap enough to make it profitable and convince a majority of residents its a product we want to buy.

You do realize that Verizon sold 4.8 million mostly rural landlines to Frontier and only about 100,000 of them were FiOS customers. Verizon is profitable, has kept most of its FiOS areas and without them it might as well get out of the landline business altogether. FiOS already makes up about 50% of all Verizon consumer wireline revenues and the more mature FiOS areas are already at 35 to 40+% penetration. IMHO Verizon never expected or considers it necessary from a revenue perspective to exceed 50% FiOS penetration.

ck75253

@144.70.2.x

FIOS Customers Speak UP!

Hey folks,

I'm a Frontier employee (former Verizon employee) who got sold as a slave during the madness. Our wonderful new CEO is trying to do as much as possible to get out of the FIOS market. Those of you on FIOS need to write, picket, yell, scream, kick, whatever you can to keep it. She's under the delusion that you can get 200 Mbps over copper with DSL. That's the direction they're going. Do what you can to keep what you got!

Someone asked what a true 20/5 FIOS bundle costs with DVR's etc., it's about $130.00 after you take on all the fees, HD charges, Equipment Rental Fees, etcs.

MonkeyLick78

join:2002-01-27
Hixson, TN

Verizon

I didn't realize Verizon was so expensive and slow compared to other fiber providers. Their top speed is slow compared to a lot of the major cable ISP's too. If Comcast can manage 105/20 with a much larger footprint, there's no reason for Verizon to top out at 50/20. It shows poorly on fiber as a whole when the biggest provider for residential fiber service is getting beaten (by a pretty significant amount) by some cable providers.
Most of their tiers aren't even symmetrical.:\ There's no excuse for their top tier to be anything less than 100/100 in at least some major markets. If Comcast can manage their premium tier with their technically inferior cable network and far larger footprint then why not do the same? People are willing to pay a premium for superior speed.

••••••••••
wasvznowftr

join:2010-07-13
00000

Call me a shill but...

The reality on the ground is this:

FiOS is NOT going away where it is deployed. If anything, I believe you may actually see an expansion to some degree. In a recent meeting with the VP of Engineering for the West Coast, I heard it from the man's mouth, that he would rather push more fiber and spend the money on FiOS upgrades than bring and let the DSL go where EXISTING FiOS is available.

Where FiOS was available, Verizon by and large would not sell DSL.

Frontier figures that there shouldn't be a reason to have to sell a minimum 15/5 FiOS service for $50/month (along with the significant associated installation costs of a fiber drop, ont, etc) when someone is - like it or not - perfectly happy spending $30 on a 3 Mbps DSL on copper that is already in place.

Frontier has also created a 5 and 7 Mbps FiOS Lite tier.


•••

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

Beginning of the end...

for FIoS customers in Frontier land? Sounds like to me they are ready to get rid of all of Verizon's deployments and go back to what they think they know best.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

stuck? move forward

the only way forward is to FTTP.. no doubt the technology is getting cheaper. as the copper rots on the vine.. it should be replaced with fiber. a bundle of fiber can serve hundreds of customers, where a copper bundle serves dozens. of the wide geography that frontier has, pick the best towns to deploy fiber. work with customers, municipalites and government to make moving foward possible. if not, frontier is doomed to fail.

at&t knows that as much as they are deploying DSL, the end game is FTTP, once comcast lights up docsis 3 and lowers the price of 50 - 100mbit tiers with symmetric bandwidth (most obvious places will be where Verizon FIOS overlay, meaning adjacent at&t geography is next). at&t will have to commit millions of dollars scraping remotes with fiber node boxes. all to maintain it's customer base who want more bandwidth.

although frontier is mostly in the north.. the real competition between the trio of comcast, verizon & at&t will begin in the southern US-- that's where the majority of the NEW fiber deployments are happening.. stretching from the atlantic coast SOUTH & WEST.
chances14

join:2010-03-03
Michigan

This makes me mad

They are wasting money installing dsl in areas where there is fiber and nobody will use it. Yet there are millions of customers, me included, across the country who are dying to have any other internet option beside satellite and dial up.

xpbx
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Comcast

when you hear this....

many 1st level vz field mgrs have been receiving pamphlets and such promo material that has "verizon/frontier" printed on it. read into this what you want. but vz is going to get rid of all copper within 10-15 yrs and the techs will be installing LTE equipment on every job visit. vz/froniter is a partnership/spinoff/spinco that is only the start of vz focussing all their efforts on fiber and wireless. this does not include copper. anyone that hasnt figured this out already is prolly living in a cave.
chances14

join:2010-03-03
Michigan

Re: when you hear this....

said by xpbx:

many 1st level vz field mgrs have been receiving pamphlets and such promo material that has "verizon/frontier" printed on it. read into this what you want. but vz is going to get rid of all copper within 10-15 yrs and the techs will be installing LTE equipment on every job visit. vz/froniter is a partnership/spinoff/spinco that is only the start of vz focussing all their efforts on fiber and wireless. this does not include copper. anyone that hasnt figured this out already is prolly living in a cave.

maybe where you live they will be, but i can gurantee that they won't be doing any of that where i live for a long long long time

alchav

join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT
Reviews:
·ooma
said by xpbx:

many 1st level vz field mgrs have been receiving pamphlets and such promo material that has "verizon/frontier" printed on it. read into this what you want. but vz is going to get rid of all copper within 10-15 yrs and the techs will be installing LTE equipment on every job visit. vz/froniter is a partnership/spinoff/spinco that is only the start of vz focusing all their efforts on fiber and wireless. this does not include copper. anyone that hasn't figured this out already is prolly living in a cave.

Now this makes a lot of sense, Copper is Dead in more ways than one. Relying on existing Copper or laying new Copper, is a no win situation. Fiber is the future, so let's move on!
ck75253

join:2010-12-08
Dallas, TX

Fiber in Frontier Area is going away

Hey folks,

Former Verizon, current Frontier Employee here, just wanted you folks to know that Fiber is not the main direction for Frontier at this time and as far as we can tell not anytime in the future either. For whatever reason they're hanging their hat on DSL. The CEO claims you can get 200/200 out of DSL and that's the direction they're wanting to go so if you have Fiber, start letting the company know they need to make their investments in that technology instead of trying to bring DSL/HSI back to life.

Also, for those of you in the Verizon Fiber area who also have Copper availability, they (VERIZON) is going to get rid of their Copper facilities. It currently has projects underway to eliminate copper in any of their areas. They're goal is to force everyone to Fiber. If you're on copper and don't want to go to Fiber then your only option will be to switch to another provider. Just wanted to give you folks a heads up!