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Comments on news posted 2010-12-09 16:34:50: Back in July Netflix launched a streaming only video option in Canada, which immediately raised the question of how well this service would play with the low bandwidth caps and high per gig overages common to most Canadian ISPs. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


misterjarret

@rsmrichter.com

no comment necessary

analysis was spot on. telcos will trump over the top providers such as netflix, as telcos own the most important piece of the value chain - the conduit.


iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast

What are they smoking?

At 1.5 Mbps one hour of video is 675 MB. On Verizon's 10GB, $80 plan that works out to $5.40 in bandwidth costs. A full movie at 1.5 Mbps (120 minutes, let's say) would cost more than in-flight pay-per-view!

At $1 per GB we're talking about much more reasonable numbers as far as cost per streamed movie goes, but you're still better off swinging by the nearest Redbox (discounting gas costs) if you're going to watch a longer flick and your connection is in overage mode.

If you look in the wireless ISP forum, everyone over there is freaking out about how Netflix streaming is going to demolish their bandwidth and network infrastructure, because they're paying $300+ per megabit to get 'net access out to these places. The result may be that those WISPs will raise prices or implement caps because the cost of delivering ISP service with no caps and standard usage patterns just want way up :/

This is why a net-neutral, inexpensive middle mile is CRUCIAL to making stuff like Netflix et al work. Especially since everyone is likely to be watching Netflix at around the same time of day, pushing peak load to new highs...


hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

NetFlix would have a better run at this if they started trying to partner with ISPs and others- especially in the state. They could by-pass a lot of CDN deals by doing that.



DavidT
She turned me into a newt

join:2006-09-01
Oakville, ON

Great

Thanks for being the voice that we needed Netflix, well done.



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

1 recommendation

reply to iansltx

Re: What are they smoking?

said by iansltx:

This is why a net-neutral, inexpensive middle mile is CRUCIAL to making stuff like Netflix et al work

"Middle mile" fiber is dirt cheap these days, its the "last mile" that is more expensive.


spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·SureWest Internet
reply to misterjarret

Re: no comment necessary

said by misterjarret :

analysis was spot on. telcos will trump over the top providers such as netflix, as telcos own the most important piece of the value chain - the conduit.

That, and the Comcasts of the world will not let their Pay tv model be trumped by the Netflix's of the world. They will squeeze that pipe and only jack diddly s--- will come out. Netflix is delusional to think otherwise.
--
The weekend is here, grab a can of beer!


thegeek
Premium
join:2008-02-21
right here
kudos:2

Why Would Netflix Worry?

The consumer is still going to subscribe to Netflix if that is what they want. If they have a low cap then they end having to stream fewer movies. The fewer movies that Netflix has to deliver to the consumer the higher their profit margin.



FutureMon
Ach Du Lieber
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2000-10-05
Seaside, CA
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

Netflix "bundled" with ISP Broadband plan?

I wonder how long it will be before Netflix becomes part of a "bundled package" offered by ISP's.

The ISP can charge extra to allow unmetered Netflix streaming, and Netflix gets their (smaller) cut from the ISP as opposed to charging the consumer directly.

It could even be a package linked to the ISP's TV package as opposed to linking it to the internet access.

Much like you'd pay $9.99/month for showtime.

- FM
--
This just in from the department of redundancy department...



AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to thegeek

Re: Why Would Netflix Worry?

Plus they have no contractual obligations with carriers or overhead stock to deliver movies like they do in the states. If things don't work out, they load up the servers and move to Beverly.... you know the rest.
--
If my online experience is enhanced, why are my speeds throttled??


hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
reply to FutureMon

Re: Netflix "bundled" with ISP Broadband plan?

thats what i said above basically.....and would allow NF to connect direct to the ISP and not worry about CDN.



skuv

@rr.com
reply to FutureMon

I could see Cable and Sat companies wanted to do this with their settop boxes and add to or possibly replace their expensive VOD installations.

If they could add Netflix to their settops and have their subscribers just stream Netflix through the settop, they could eliminate a lot of overhead.

Netflix should be trying to sell something like this hard if they aren't already. I'd suspect that they are looking for deals like this.


hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Sat doesn't have a very good way to do this. The end user would have to have their STB on HSI. So there is still a middle man with that. if they did it with an MSO it would turn out better. Or even a DSL ISP. I could see an MSO or Indie ISP wanting to partner.


iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
reply to wifi4milez

Re: What are they smoking?

If you have fiber in a area, yes. If not then no.



fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to hottboiinnc

Re: Netflix "bundled" with ISP Broadband plan?

I believe directv is already doing on demand via hsi.



fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to thegeek

Re: Why Would Netflix Worry?

Exactly my thoughts. Netflix must be thankful for bandwidth caps. The "all you can eat" model has a limit and they get to blame ISPs for that limit.


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to hottboiinnc

Re: What are they smoking?

Sure, bring on additional ESPN 360-like deals. No thank you. Or are you referring to utilizing each ISP an a CDN, hence having to negotiate several hundred deals opposed to a couple that they do now? That will likely drive up Netflix's costs even more than content distribution rights already have. Eventually ISPs will implement, and enforce, usage caps to minimize the impacts of services like Netflix. Consumer costs will rise and everyone in forums like this will complain about greedy ISPs and how they shouldn't offer services they can't provide.


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to FutureMon

Re: Netflix "bundled" with ISP Broadband plan?

said by FutureMon:

The ISP can charge extra to allow unmetered Netflix streaming, and Netflix gets their (smaller) cut from the ISP as opposed to charging the consumer directly.

Thank you Disney for your ESPN 360 extortion. Now we have people wanting similar types of deals for other services.


JfromC
Problem

join:2010-10-30
Cobourg, ON
kudos:1

1 edit

This is why Net Neutrality is CRUCIAL!

This is why Net Neutrality is CRUCIAL! ISPs should have no right in dictating what I use my paid for bandwidth allotment for be it NetFlix or... I dunno lesbian bondage.

ISPs also need to come to the table with a little more realistic numbers for what an average user is going to be now that there are so many sources of data on the net; from Youtube, to downloading multi-gigabyte games on Steam.

Sure there is a place for the 10gb plans, for Nana and Papa to get email and pictures from their family etc. There should be very high business rate plans for very heavy users. But these days 60gb a month (what Cogeco gives the Standard Package) is not enough for an "Average User" who is going to download Streamed Media. Who is going to download Multi-Gigabyte games from Steam. Who wants to send their family a home movie they made in Movie Maker or iMovie.. etc. etc. etc.

It feels like a day of reckoning is coming, and it's going to be the lobbyists and large ISPs that win the battle.. The only way to win is to tell these huge corporations to stuff their internet connectivity where the sun don't shine, but where does that leave us? Without *any* internet which kind of defeats the purpose of fighting for Neutrality and reasonable Rates and Caps in the first place...


hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
reply to openbox9

Re: What are they smoking?

no its partner with the ISPs, especially like indie ISPs and offer them a TV product. read below and you'd understand instead of claiming another ESPN 360 deal. and by the way---It's not a bad deal.


hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
reply to fifty nine

Re: Netflix "bundled" with ISP Broadband plan?

yes it is but you have to buffer the movies according to them. they download and then play. which is a waste when you can just do this.


hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
reply to openbox9

WTF! Disney is NOT requiring ISPs to carry ESPN360. It's only an option. If they don't wanna carry it they don't have to. Nothing lost. That portal is NOT bundled with any TV offerings that they normally would require. claiming it's extortion is a flat out lie. They're not extorting anything.


hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
reply to JfromC

Re: This is why Net Neutrality is CRUCIAL!

no such problem. Net Neutrality is a cry from what was the king of all- Google. And now the only one bitching about it is Free Press (like they always do) and Level3,

When NN becomes an issue then we can talk about it even being a such thing until then; meh, and move on.



GlennAllen
Sunny with highs in the 80s
Premium
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA
reply to skuv

Re: Netflix "bundled" with ISP Broadband plan?

I suppose you mean Netflix should partner with a satellite broadband provider (since the high[er] latency should be mostly irrelevant)... yeah, works in theory (but what's the max # of users that could be streaming [HD] concurrently?).



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to iansltx

Re: What are they smoking?

said by iansltx:

If you have fiber in a area, yes. If not then no.

There is a glut of backbone or "middle mile" fiber available in many areas, even in rural locations. That has never really been the problem (at least not for the past 10 years), and it wont likely ever be. The issue has been getting from the fiber interconnection points to the homes, and middle mile fiber has nothing to do with that. Last mile fiber is the challenge most ISP's face when looking to build out new networks.
--
"No you won't" -The American people to President Obama (11/2/2010)



88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
reply to hottboiinnc

said by hottboiinnc:

no its partner with the ISPs, especially like indie ISPs and offer them a TV product. read below and you'd understand instead of claiming another ESPN 360 deal. and by the way---It's not a bad deal.

You do realize that ESPN3 still counts against you cap with Comcast and Charter even though ESPN has deals with them.


88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
reply to thegeek

Re: Why Would Netflix Worry?

said by thegeek:

The consumer is still going to subscribe to Netflix if that is what they want. If they have a low cap then they end having to stream fewer movies. The fewer movies that Netflix has to deliver to the consumer the higher their profit margin.

The fewer movies I can stream the less of a bargin Netflix seems. Thus I cancell my subscription which = LOST REVENUE.

regmanabq

join:2006-10-18
Albuquerque, NM
reply to JfromC

Re: This is why Net Neutrality is CRUCIAL!

Exactly, they provide the road, who is to say what I use it for?

This is like if the phone companies owned the airwaves when cell phones came about. The trouble is that the cable companies whose entire business model is built on TV is now in many places the sole provider of internet access.

Until that changes, which I really don't see how it can, we may be doomed to get our TV via over priced forced down our throats 200+ channel plans. That will really make me sad since I enjoy the freedom to just buy netflix and watch the shows I wish without the 100usd bill per month to pay for shows I will never watch.

Then again, I just discovered today that for Qwest, my provider, 12mbs service is finally available for us loyal customers, at $20 a month higher cost than for new subscribers who also get their first six months at 30 bucks. So much for encouraging customer loyalty.


rahvin112

join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT
reply to wifi4milez

Re: What are they smoking?

Most people don't realize that part of the dot-bomb growth in the late 90's was the installation of thousands of miles of dark fiber. Between L3, Qwest and a dozen others there is so much long and medium haul fiber in the ground right now that they might never need to install it again. I don't think L3 has even lit (powered up) 1/3 of the fiber they have in the ground right now.

There's a huge glut of capacity that was driven by the mythical "exaflood" and investors that were throwing money at anything associated with the internet. (plus good planning that knowing the digging was expensive so putting in dozens of fibers and only using a couple immediately was the norm) In fact the only thing driving prices are maintenance and bond payments on the carriers that didn't go bankrupt. Most of the long haul providers barely make money and I wouldn't be surprised if the economics are the same in the medium haul market. The key point here is that the only thing driving prices is maintenance and bond payments. More traffic means maintenance costs spread over more data meaning prices are constantly going down. Fiber prices are dirt cheap, I remember when a DS3 cost $50K a month. The only thing limiting consumers right now is last mile. Once the last mile can handle it there is plenty of capacity in the long haul market.



jacoby

@wayport.net

If cable cos kill NetFlix, they kill their internet business

People are paying for bandwidth to actually use it! If all I can do is get email and simple web surfing from my internet, then I'm dropping the internet and using the phone! I already don't subscribe to cable and just use NetFlix. They want to kill my bandwidth pipe, they're gone!



Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

They should be as it is obvious with AT&T's 2gb cap

that companies are lowering their caps to trap users into penalties

I expect home users to soon be dealing with these laughable caps