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Comments on news posted 2010-12-14 11:36:03: Earlier this month Level3 proclaimed that Comcast was violating net neutrality by demanding they pay a new connection fee to deliver Internet video services to Comcast customers. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · next

amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America

hahaha

That is just awesome. Nice graphs too.

Hope this settles for the best - so far it seems like it could end badly for all parties involved


AlfredNewman

join:2010-03-25
Columbus, OH

Comcast lying?

Say it ain't so. I know this isn't the first time they've been caught deploying some very shady networking techniques to get more money but this is getting ridiculous


patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

These graphs prove why consumer ISPs are so stingy on upload speeds (sold in units of 128 or 256 kbitps), since if they let all their residential customers upload, alot of the paid peering would turn into free peering due to the ratios leveling out costing massive money for the consumer ISPs.


vzguy71

join:2006-02-11
Albany, NY
kudos:1

TATA

Ok so if Level 3 gives in and pays Comcast to peer directly, and avoid TATA, Netflix traffic is saved...but what about the other traffic that is still being affected by saturated TATA links? How does this affect day to day browsing for Comcast customers? Comcast is still refusing to upgrade these links just to screw with providers like Level 3? Doesn't sound any better than their Sandvine stunt.



jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

2 recommendations

said by vzguy71:

Comcast is still refusing to upgrade these links just to screw with providers like Level 3?

No. Comcast is screwing its customers.

It's like paying for a buffet and finding the food trays empty because comcast can't fill them fast enough. Other companies (Level3) can fill the trays with food but comcast wants to also charge them money to do so.

It seems like L3 is doing a favor for comcast by providing data for free instead of comcast having to buy more bandwidth on its own. Instead, comcast wants to charge L3 for the privilege of delivering the data?

If I were running L3, I'd tell comcast to screw off and make it a point to let every comcast subscriber know why their netflix isn't working well.

hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
reply to vzguy71

L3 already agreed to pay Comcast. They admited that. So they actually believe in a paid internet model by paying. They could have said "NO" but didn't

But it would be smart for Netflix to co-lo in to the ISPs. Hell they'd save $$$$$ out the ass by avoiding CDN all the way. Drop a few servers in side the Comcast, ATT, VZ, WOW, TWC and other large networks and be done with it. They'd avoid a helleva lot of issues with L3 and the other CDN providers.


devnuller

join:2006-06-10
Cambridge, MA

1 recommendation

Pick one link and throw mud??

Out of how many and across how many peers with massive content shifts happing every day.

Out of all the postings here with GREAT performance, excellent stats in the rankings, and only a few occasional one off issues, how much can you trust this mud slinging?

Think there is any motivation behind the poster?



SysOp

join:2001-04-18
Douglasville, GA
Reviews:
·MetroPCS

imgsrc.ru seems to load better on comcast via proxy

So, this is why my connection to imgsrc.ru servers keep getting reset and timing out when using Comcast at home?

Because Comcast won't play nice with the other kids in the Global Communications sandbox?

If I use a proxy or other ISP, my connection to imgsrc.ru seems to work just fine



Anony987654

@comcast.net
reply to devnuller

Re: Pick one link and throw mud??

This is one router out of how many? How do we know this wasn't about a day before it was upgraded? And how we do know it wasn't from a disgruntled ex-employee with a axe to grind?



PhoenixDown
FIOS is Awesome
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to hottboiinnc

Re: TATA

In some ways that would be more expensive and incur extra overhead and headache for netflix as they would have to manage each colo and maintain multiple agreements with various isp's.

And the cost of that colo would only go up as every other provider wanted to do the same (Amazon, redbox, etc) since each would have to provide equipment, not use the already existing L3 equipment. Space and Power are huge issues at some colo sites.
--
~ Insert a Funny Sig Here ~



fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to jjoshua

Except that Level3 is profiting from this immensely via its CDN business.

Level3 can't tell Comcast to screw off because then they'd lose the free peering so critical to their cut rate CDN business.



swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
reply to hottboiinnc

I dont believe that can be done, the content providers will not allow it.
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fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to patcat88

Re: Comcast lying?

said by patcat88:

These graphs prove why consumer ISPs are so stingy on upload speeds (sold in units of 128 or 256 kbitps), since if they let all their residential customers upload, alot of the paid peering would turn into free peering due to the ratios leveling out costing massive money for the consumer ISPs.

No, not really. The upload speed problem is simply due to the return plant issues and the fact that the return frequencies are much lower and subject to a lot more noise than the forward path. That's it. No grand conspiracy here, move along.

The average residential user does not really use a lot of upload, at least for legal, non-p2p traffic.


jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to fifty nine

Re: TATA

said by fifty nine:

Except that Level3 is profiting from this immensely via its CDN business.

Level3 can't tell Comcast to screw off because then they'd lose the free peering so critical to their cut rate CDN business.

Why shouldn't L3 be allowed to profit? Comcast feels that they are entitled to L3's profits because comcast's customers are the reason for L3's existence?

L3 should cut off comcast's links for 1 day to teach them a lesson.


Mattxdc

@sbcglobal.net
reply to hottboiinnc

Until one day Comcast changes the lock on the server room and refuses to let Netflix in anymore (probably the same day they place a whole bunch of new properties on their TV Everywhere platform). You can't tame the lion by placing your head in its mouth.


WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX
reply to fifty nine

Re: Comcast lying?

Nicely left out was the LEGAL p2p traffic.



fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

said by WernerSchutz:

Nicely left out was the LEGAL p2p traffic.

Yeah, because most people who use bittorrent are downloading linux distros, lol


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to jjoshua

Re: TATA

said by jjoshua:

said by fifty nine:

Except that Level3 is profiting from this immensely via its CDN business.

Level3 can't tell Comcast to screw off because then they'd lose the free peering so critical to their cut rate CDN business.

Why shouldn't L3 be allowed to profit? Comcast feels that they are entitled to L3's profits because comcast's customers are the reason for L3's existence?

L3 should cut off comcast's links for 1 day to teach them a lesson.

They are allowed to profit. Comcast is also allowed to make a business decision that protects their profit and doesn't suddenly increase their operating costs. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

As I've said before, Level3 has more to lose from this because if they cut off Comcast, nothing but Level 3's bottom line is affected. Netflix traffic will find its way through Akamai or LLNW. Level 3 has no choice but to play ball here.

backness

join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2
reply to fifty nine

Re: Comcast lying?

really?

That old chestnut?


WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX
reply to fifty nine

said by fifty nine:

said by WernerSchutz:

Nicely left out was the LEGAL p2p traffic.

Yeah, because most people who use bittorrent are downloading linux distros, lol

Ever heard of foreign TV using p2p transmission ? Did not think so.

WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX
reply to backness

said by backness:

really?

That old chestnut?

Cable shills do not go to training but only every three years or so.

WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX
reply to fifty nine

Re: TATA

said by fifty nine:

said by jjoshua:

said by fifty nine:

Except that Level3 is profiting from this immensely via its CDN business.

Level3 can't tell Comcast to screw off because then they'd lose the free peering so critical to their cut rate CDN business.

Why shouldn't L3 be allowed to profit? Comcast feels that they are entitled to L3's profits because comcast's customers are the reason for L3's existence?

L3 should cut off comcast's links for 1 day to teach them a lesson.

They are allowed to profit. Comcast is also allowed to make a business decision that protects their profit and doesn't suddenly increase their operating costs.

Using their monopolistic / collusion techniques without restriction, of course.


Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1

I am thorougly disgusted with Comcast.....

They can't seem to get their shit straight....



fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to backness

Re: Comcast lying?

said by backness:

really?

That old chestnut?

Sure. Tell us all of the legal p2p traffic that people are uploading. I'm all ears.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to WernerSchutz

said by WernerSchutz:

said by fifty nine:

said by WernerSchutz:

Nicely left out was the LEGAL p2p traffic.

Yeah, because most people who use bittorrent are downloading linux distros, lol

Ever heard of foreign TV using p2p transmission ? Did not think so.

Absolutely. But how much P2P foreign TV is legal and non infringing? And how significant a percentage of internet traffic is it, compared to file sharing for copyright infringement?


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to WernerSchutz

Re: TATA

said by WernerSchutz:

Using their monopolistic / collusion techniques without restriction, of course.

Of course. And Level 3 is just a saint, aren't they?

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

1 recommendation

reply to vzguy71

I have been making this argument from the beginning as I saw right through Comcast as I educated myself on them.

Comcast links with a couple other T1 providers as well and already has agreements with them in which they pay Comcast to reach Comcast ISP consumers. They do not pay Comcast to reach other users on the internet, just Comcast subscribers.

Thus, if someone wants to reach Comcast consumers and is willing to pay they go through those links so that they get "preferred" treatment. If you are not willing to pay to get to Comcast ISP consumers you go through TATA. Guess which one a company that relies on good bandwidth to survive will chose? As L3 has shown, they have no choice but to pay up or be reduced to TATA level of service.

Comcast has essentially implemented per service / application "tubes" that they will collect additional fees on as it "prioritizes" bits thus violating net neutrality rules.


kcblack
Premium
join:2000-09-11
Chicago, IL

so, upgrade...

I mean, I don't understand what the issue is...

A little surgery, some filler and they can upgrade to some bodacious TATAs and 95+ of the male population that uses Comcast would be very happy.

(I know, I couldn't help myself. It was a moral imperative to post this. Apologies to all, lol).

Seriously, I'm the customer so they should spend some of those ridiculous profits to upgrade the backbone links to provide me with a fast, cheap pipe to the net for whatever I want to do with it.



markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5
reply to WernerSchutz

Re: Comcast lying?

I'm on Comcast. How do I upload P2P foreign TV from my home in the USA? I want to upload something, I have no use for it right now and this sounds interesting. Does it come in the mail on DVD? Do I need a C-band satellite? How exactly do I upload foreign television on a Comcast network?
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markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5
reply to fifty nine

Re: TATA

said by fifty nine:

said by WernerSchutz:

Using their monopolistic / collusion techniques without restriction, of course.

Of course. And Level 3 is just a saint, aren't they?

In this particular case, new evidence leans towards Level 3 being a victim. I really don't care if the eat dogs and spit on trees, for this topic it is leaning that Comcast is using collusion techniques which raise rates on internet services to provide the service (trickle all the way up and then back down again) by artificially reducing supply.
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Show off that hardware: join Team Discovery and Team Helix