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Comments on news posted 2010-12-16 17:11:18: For years during the network neutrality debate, some supporters warned of a future that involved customers paying more money if they wanted to access certain content. ..

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voipnpots2
join:2010-11-15
U.S.

1 recommendation

voipnpots2

Member

re

I highly disagree with this. What makes the internet the internet is the ability to access any server or network around the world at any time you want. I don't disagree with Comcast's 250GB cap, but if they were to put more "caps", I would feel I'm getting screwed. To think that they can control access to what content you get almost seems communist in a way. If you go over to a friend's house and want to use the internet, you shouldn't be limited to whatever service he's subscribed to and only have access to certain websites. You should have access to everything, and what should determine the price is the speed. If my ISP charged extra for YouTube, I would drop YouTube, because I don't use it that much.

What's going on here is greed. Websites and internet companies (as well as other companies *cough*Best Buy*cough*) are foaming at the mouth to get more money, and going against what is natural and logical just to gain more.

Unfortunately, in our society, money has taken over, and has gotten in the way of morals, common sense, and ethics.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to FrontirCynic

Member

to FrontirCynic

Re: how is this new?

"CEO's of ISP's. phone cos, content providers all want the same thing: make as much money from you as they can without you going to a competitor."

Is this much different than...

Employees (a.k.a. consumers) want the same thing. Make as much money as they can with out being fired or laid off?

Why is it greed when the provider of any service wants to make more money but when the Employee (consumer) wants to make more it's not?

buzz_4_20
join:2003-09-20
Dover, NH
(Software) Sophos UTM Home Edition
Ruckus R310

buzz_4_20 to Rogue Wolf

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to Rogue Wolf

Re: All I want for xmas....

My ISP is a dumb pipe... And I LOVE it... I can get a faster connection from Time Warner. but my "Dumb" pipe is the best Internet service I've ever had.

It's NEVER been down, It's always consistent, and it always works...

no throttling, no "network management" no "value added services"

I'd rather pay more for a quality dumb pipe than for anything else...

I'll use the pipe as I see fit, that's what I pay for...

Somnambul33t
L33t.
Premium Member
join:2002-12-05
00000

Somnambul33t

Premium Member

NN - a solution in search of a problem

This has yet to happen yet we're supposed to pass far-reaching legislation handing over the reigns of the internet to the federal government because it MIGHT happen? please...the Internet FLOURISHED without government "regulation" and will continue to do so as long as we keep it that way.

WHT
join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX

WHT to NyNexit

Member

to NyNexit

Re: come on FCC

said by NyNexit:

Anyone else want to take bets on when ISP's will be deemed Title 2 common carriers by the FCC.

It would affect ISPs that would wish to (caution - industry buzz wards ahead) "monitize the prioritization of packets", in other words create an internet "fast lane", or to continue QoS priorities, traffic-bursting to speed up web pages (and thus slow down longer duration downloads), usage throttling, etc.

For me, I can adapt to a Title II landscape by selling different daily download limits. I can give everyone at least 1.2 Mbps and a couple of hundred MB per day. That will satisfy over 90% of my subscribers.
old_wiz_60
join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA

old_wiz_60

Member

The FCC..

will certainly agree to proposals from the carriers. The carriers slip enough dirty money to Congress and the regulatory agencies to get away with pretty much anything.

This will continue until people simply stop using higher priced services. Advertisers will suffer as well since on a metered usage plan, ad blocking software will become a hot item.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to fiberguy2

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to fiberguy2

Re: guys stop your fing b*tching please

Id not be shocked if the ISP division is more profitable per customer than the TV division at a cable company. I mean the cable companies get charged more and more every few months for content but the cost they pay per GB or even TB tends to fall.

rchandra
Stargate Universe fan
Premium Member
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
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rchandra to buzz_4_20

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to buzz_4_20

Re: All I want for xmas....

It seems naiive to claim your Internet connection has never been down, unless you've only had it say a couple of months. All telecomm connections experience downtime; it's just a matter of how much/little.

But by and large, I would agree...I want my vendor (currently Time-Warner/Roadrunner) to get me to/from the rest of the vendors (Level3, AT&T, Verizon, BT, NTT, etc.), agnostic of everything (protocol, address, etc.) except for RFC1918 addresses (shouldn't allow them out or feed them to me) and DSCP (if I set the bit(s) for low delay (for VoIP for example), I want that respected,and have those packets prioritized).
borka
join:2003-04-01
Ponte Vedra, FL

1 recommendation

borka to WHT

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to WHT

Re: What If I Charged You Extra to Download Movies?

said by WHT:

Once you exceed your limit, you are throttled to 256 Kbps for the rest of the billing period - Fast enough for basic internet usage. Since we're not charging for overages, this is not a "monetizing" model.

Let me guess, you run this wisp in an extremely rural area, where DSL nor cable is available, so for %99 of your customers its either dialup, satelite or you? correct?

What happens if I want to download a game from STEAM? games are usually around 4.5GB...

what happens if i have 4 computers at home, and i run updates on all of them, bringing me over your 600MB DAILY limit. and what if this happens on my FIRST day of my billing cycle? I will now be stuck to 256k for 29 more days???? all for using 700mb in one day??

This is the worst data allowance that i have EVER heard of.

You do realize that once your customers have ANY other choice, you will be out of business fairly quick.

buzz_4_20
join:2003-09-20
Dover, NH

buzz_4_20 to rchandra

Member

to rchandra

Re: All I want for xmas....

I've had this connection for 2.5 years. It's entirely possible that it's been down. If so it's never been during active usage.
RJARRRPCGP
join:2010-12-17
North Springfield, VT

RJARRRPCGP to WHT

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to WHT

Re: What If I Charged You Extra to Download Movies?

256 kbps is a joke! It's NOT 2001!
RJARRRPCGP

RJARRRPCGP to WHT

Member

to WHT

Re: come on FCC

It won't in Windsor county, Vermont!

Stay the h*** away from Vermont! You're not welcome in Windsor county, Vermont!

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues to TamaraB

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to TamaraB

Re: Then

North Americans in general are sheep , the encroachment will be little by little,till one day you'll wake up and realized what's happened.
amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22

amigo_boy to sonicmerlin

Member

to sonicmerlin

Re: typo

said by sonicmerlin:

There are no "hogs". Bandwidth is dirt cheap. It costs them 3-4 CENTS/GB.

I use 4-5 gb per month. ISP's should only charge me 12 to 20 cents per month?
said by sonicmerlin:

Why are you so fanatically stubborn...

Perhaps I'm not the fanatic.

rchandra
Stargate Universe fan
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join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
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1 recommendation

rchandra to jim_p_price7

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to jim_p_price7

Re: What would I do?

so...could you pass along some of your knowledge please? I too am curious as to the actual approx. cost (to TWC) of the 10/1 connection I now have. All I have for comparison is the statement from my former coworker that a DS-3 was about 44K/mo. That was quite a few years ago though.
borka
join:2003-04-01
Ponte Vedra, FL

borka to WHT

Member

to WHT

Re: come on FCC

Why are you so proud of your extremely limiting data plans?

you seem very happy to squeez your customers.

$99 for 2Mbit and ~100GB of data is WAY overpriced.

What happens if a person goes over your rediculous daily cap on the FITST billing day? now they are stuck for a whole month on 56k ??

I can see 20GB , 50GB , 100GB MONTHLY caps, and once over, you throttle.

But to throttle for the remainder of the month, for downloading ONE DVD or GAME is bull$it.

ctceo
Premium Member
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN

ctceo to jim_p_price7

Premium Member

to jim_p_price7

Re: What would I do?

Yeah. The drone mindset they force upon us is quite encumbering isn't it.

WHT
join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX

WHT to borka

Member

to borka

Re: What If I Charged You Extra to Download Movies?

said by borka:

Let me guess, you run this wisp in an extremely rural area, where DSL nor cable is available, so for %99 of your customers its either dialup, satelite or you? correct?

Correct, or some other WISP.
said by borka:

What happens if I want to download a game from STEAM? games are usually around 4.5GB...

The download isn't completed then.
said by borka:

what happens if i have 4 computers at home, and i run updates on all of them, bringing me over your 600MB DAILY limit. and what if this happens on my FIRST day of my billing cycle? I will now be stuck to 256k for 29 more days???? all for using 700mb in one day??

Then I guess you're in the same situation of anyone that has a satellite connection of 200 MB per day. You can pay me for a higher monthly data allowance or take your computers into a computer shop and pay them.

If you go over your daily limit, you are only rate limited until the next day, not until the end of the month.
said by borka:

This is the worst data allowance that i have EVER heard of.

Then you haven't heard of Hughesnet's 200 MB limit, or their 500 MB limit with their $349 per month plan.
said by borka:

You do realize that once your customers have ANY other choice, you will be out of business fairly quick.

That's fine with me. 90% of my subs can live with my rates. if they can't, then I'll be glad to let my competition loose money on them.
said by RJARRRPCGP:

256 kbps is a joke! It's NOT 2001!

You misread what I said. 256K is the guaranteed rate, but typically closer to 2 Mbps. Wireless last mile delivery is a shared resource, its not like a committed DSL or cable internet service.

If anyone really needs a guaranteed 1.5/1.5 Mbps connection, we can assist them in getting a T1 line installed and they will enter into a contract with the T1 provider for $600 to $900 per month.
WHT

WHT to ctceo

Member

to ctceo

Re: What would I do?

said by ctceo:

It just costs a bit of time,effort & resources. Nothing more. Anything else is a fabrication of possession.

Let's see....$10,000 per tower site, licensed backhaul links at $10,00 a link, staffing, insurance, vehicle maintenance, equipment. That's a lot more than "a bit".
WHT

WHT to borka

Member

to borka

Re: come on FCC

said by borka:

you seem very happy to squeez your customers.

$99 for 2Mbit and ~100GB of data is WAY overpriced.

What happens if a person goes over your rediculous daily cap on the FITST billing day? now they are stuck for a whole month on 56k ??

But to throttle for the remainder of the month, for downloading ONE DVD or GAME is bull$it.

$99 for 100 GB is in line with lots of WISPs. 80 to 90% of my subs use less than 10 GB per month.

As I posted above,

If you go over your daily limit, you are only rate limited until the next day, not until the end of the month.

Squeezing the customers? Compared to the alternatives such as $600 to $900 for a 1.5 Mbps T1 (unlimited downloads) or $349 for 5 Mbps and 500 MB satellite, I offer a bargain.
chances14
join:2010-03-03
Michigan

chances14 to Kamus

Member

to Kamus

Re: The Consumer is in Charge

said by Kamus :

Does anyone else here think that ISP's are simply trying to delay the inevitable?

Sure, they might get away with this crap for a while, and actually delay the demise of stupid data plans such as the examples given here, and a world where we need to pay for "voice" and "TV" from these people.

But if it's really true that the cost of bandwidth for backbones halves every 9 months, and will continue to do so for a while... they're just doomed.
At some point it will get cheap enough so that new players enter the arena, and offer compelling data only flat rates.

I mean, if it wasn't for the "last mile" problem, we could already take advantage of all this unused bandwidth.
So i guess what we need is for prices to drop for "last mile" deployment a lot more before we can take advantage of all the bandwidth they'd rather never have us get.

Wireless of course is a different story altogether, and it looks like a billionaire only business for quite some time.

But really, is it hard to imagine a 10 bucks 1 gigabit wired connections by 2020 if prices keep dropping like a rock?

I'm interested to know people's opinions about this subject. Because i'm a bit optimistic on the future of the internet. I think that once prices come down enough, we could very well see a surge of new ways to connect to that network that our current last mile land lords won't give us access to.

I dare say, that these monopolies will come crumbling down once bandwidth gets cheap enough.

i'm not optimistic at all. until all these monopolies of ISP's are gone, prices will never go down nor will they feel the need to expand or upgrade their networks
56403739 (banned)
Less than 5 months left
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL

56403739 (banned) to Corehhi

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to Corehhi

Re: The highest appeal

Wrong again. The databases already exist, and are often subpoenaed by the government and the RIAA/MPAA among others. You're about 10 years behind what is really going on now.

trainwreck6
join:2010-09-21
off track

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to wifi4milez
Screw Godwin. The Nazi's never went away!
elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA

elray

Member

Go for it! Bring it on!

I don't need YouTube or most of the uses that it seems folks here can't seem to live without. But clearly, any ISP who pulls a stunt like this will be filing Chapter 11 soon, and whoever buys up their facilities at pennies on the dollar won't make the same mistake again, and will have the added benefit of a lower cost basis.

Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium Member
join:2000-08-05
united state

Snakeoil

Premium Member

You can keep it.

Sounds like the providers want a time machine and go back to the glory days of AOL.

Where you paid 25 Bucks a month for just 20 hours of time. Then you got a surcharge for any time over that. I remember my AOL bill hitting 100 bucks, many a month.

Granted it will be easier for cable companies to roll back to that time. They don't have to share their pipe with a 2nd or 3rd party. hence why there is no competition in the cable market.

I remember when DSL came out, the first provider in my area was winfire. Bellsouth was a few months behind, even though winfire used Bellsouth's copper.

Why can't cable companies be forced to open their pipeline to resellers like that?
Cell phones have resellers [Virgin Piggy backs on a major carriers network, as does a few other companies like it], telephone service has different providers. Sure AT&T may own the copper5, but I can use a different phone service provider if I wanted to [not that there are many out there].
So why is cable so protected? Is it because they buy seats in the government?

So getting back to topic, if they started running a tier service, I'd go with the "switch it off option".
My kids would hate it because they wouldn't get their world of warcraft. My wife would hate it because she'd miss out on facebook. I'd hate it because I'll miss out on porn.
Speaking of which, why aren't the game companies like Blizzard weighing in? How much bandwidth does a game like Warcraft/Starcraft consume in a given month. I know it may not be as much as Netflix or youtube, but I'm sure it's a decent number.

trainwreck6
join:2010-09-21
off track

trainwreck6 to jim_p_price7

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to jim_p_price7

Re: What If I Charged You Extra to Download Movies?

And also said by someone who is unwisely a Rays fan.

Kenny91
@direcway.com

Kenny91

Anon

Some already do this...

Look at HughesNet. If you want to watch a few Youtube videos with this ISP then you HAVE to buy the more expensive plan since they cap users at 200MB per day on their cheapest plan. Depending on the length of the videos and the quality.... that could be anywhere from 3 - 10 videos before you get fapped.

Even the $80/month package they have is limited (425MB/day).

Maybe the rest of the ISPs are finally going to restrict everyone else so we aren't the only ones suffering.
FredIsDead
join:2010-02-24
San Antonio, TX

FredIsDead

Member

you people are silly

These are VENDORs trying to sell something.

The equipment they have sold to ISPs is probably either sitting in a lab or one node of their network and is being used to measure network usage, so that they can tell what is long haul, CDN, metro and Netflix/torrent/software patch usage.

No one is buying this gear to put into all of their production network.

The "deal with the devil" we are getting ready to make is that the internet will stay neutral and they will just charge us by the byte. They alternatives are either getting the source side to subsidize the last mile, prioritizing traffic using this kind or equipment, or stopping the major network that are going to need to happen to move more unicast video over the internet.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena to Rogue Wolf

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to Rogue Wolf

Re: All I want for xmas....

said by Rogue Wolf:

That would relegate your ISP to being a "dumb pipe", which is every major ISP's worst nightmare.

Be that as it may, all I want IS a dumb pipe. One that isn't going to cost me any extra money then what I pay monthly for said pipe.

addy3
@174.137.72.x

addy3 to FFH5

Anon

to FFH5

Re: The highest appeal

"and you think violent revolution over cell phone data plans is the solution? "

it would be a really good place to start
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