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Comments on news posted 2011-03-17 14:27:09: The only real way for the U.S. broadband market to shift from flat rate to metered broadband is if all carriers switch in unison -- ensuring that consumers can't vote against the idea with their wallet (many already can't). ..

page: 1 · 2 · next

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

1 recommendation

And there you have it...

Hey AT&T! You're not fooling anybody with this congestion BS. Just level with us and tell us the bosses all want a new Ferrari.

I saw a Verizon crew in my neighborhood in DC running fiber and asked if they were doing Fios installs. They said yes and that we'll likely have Fios this summer!
--
"We're going to start at one end of (Fallujah), and we're not going to stop until we get to the other. If there's anybody left when that happens, we're going to turn around and we're going to go back and finish it."
Lt. Col. Pete Newell: 1st Inf. US Army
brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1

Re: And there you have it...

AT&T owns part of the backbone.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

Re: And there you have it...

What backbone?

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
The government owns the backbone. AT&T only maintains it.

Napsterbater
Meh
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-28
Milledgeville, GA

Re: And there you have it...

said by ArrayList:

The government owns the backbone. AT&T only maintains it.

uh no..

DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

1 recommendation

Re: And there you have it...

the backbone is owned by multiple major ISP's and web sites
their isn't jsut one back bone and its more of a web

dru6

join:2000-09-14
Corona, CA

Re: And there you have it...

said by DarkLogix:

the backbone is owned by multiple major ISP's and web sites
their isn't jsut one back bone and its more of a web

That is true, but irrelevant. While the internet has lots of competition, broadband access to most homes in America is through one of a handful of companies who are either ILEC (Incumbent telco) or MSO (cable companies).

The FCC has embraced an oligarchy of residential ISPs over true competition. The dupoly of cable vs dsl was deemed enough competition, even though with telcos having monopolized territory, and franchise agreements for cable companies, consumers have no choice in broadband providers other than frick vs frack. Overbuilding is possible, and alternates such as municipal broadband or wireless projects are possible, but almost without exeception, the telcos use every trick in the book (including Astroturf campaigns) to thwart any serious alternative.

There was a lot of discussion recently after Egypt and other countries turned their internet "off - like a switch" and how could that be? Well, when you have a state-owned telco they control nearly all the residents. Sure, there are workaround including international dialup. It's unthinkable that we could have that here in the US, but it is more than theoretically possible for the government to declare an emergency and matter of national security, make a handful of calls (less than 10) and block a given site, service, or technology for 90% of the country within a very short time.

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
uh yea. they own the fiber maybe not the routers.

Napsterbater
Meh
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-28
Milledgeville, GA

Re: And there you have it...

Again no.

Where are you getting this idea?

dru6

join:2000-09-14
Corona, CA

2 recommendations

You're kidding, right?

There are a number of independent Tier 1 backbones, including XO, Level3, Global Crossing, NTT Verio, Sprint, and many few have even heard of. AT&T and Verizon have both acquired several independent tier 1 networks over the years. AT&T has the original AT&T network, plus SBC, BellSouth, etc, Verizon rolled up MCI, uunet, Genuity, and others over their years.

The openness and competition in the backbone isn't the problem. There is enough competition and independence at the backbone exchanges around the country. Nobody controls the backbone, but that doesn't mean consumers should not be concerned by AT&T's move.

Thanks to corporate welfare and generosity by the FCC, the government owns nothing and controls none of the backbone or last mile access, they gave it away to their favorite sons.

Here IS the problem: 5 companies (AT&T, Verizon, Time Warner, Quest, Comcast) control a huge percentage (90%+ and growing) of broadband connectivity to residences in the US. If those 5 all got together and uniformly implemented metered service or caps, most of America, and companies like Netflix could be screwed overnight (or go back to red envelopes and machines)

Today's news story is right.... these caps are never effective when implemented by one company. But don't be shocked if these guys are conducting summit meetings at a retreat on some Caribbean island as I write this. AT&T may have drawn the short straw to publicly announce caps and metered service on wireline broadband.

Consider that 150/250 gigbytes seems almost insanely generous until you calculate the number of 1 hour HD programs or 2 hour movies it takes to get there.

All of the telcos and cable cos are extremely nervous by the rapid shift from cable and satellite subscription services to streaming internet delivery. Americans are doing something today that the bumbling FCC couldn't achieve - al la carte services and pricing. Services that have no online accessibility like HDNet, Stars, HBO, risk becoming obsolete and in decline. And now you have Netflix, Amazon, and others bypassing their own pay-per-view cash cows via their "unlimited internet" which is usually priced as a loss leader to make bundles look attractive.

Wait until the wall street guys figure this out.
TheGuvnor9

join:2006-06-23
Beverly Hills, CA

Re: And there you have it...

Collusion to fix prices in this country (USA) is illegal. I think public perception on this issue is winning. Look what is happening in Canada.

Chuck kCAR

@teksavvy.com

Re: And there you have it...

The opposite is true in Canada. Collusion is the norm, our internet service is worst than almost all the third world countries.
qworster

join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA
Actually now TWO companies are doing it the biggest cableco and the biggest telco.
And since they operate by region, in some regions you will have the choice of one capped company-or the other capped company.

dru6

join:2000-09-14
Corona, CA

Re: And there you have it...

said by qworster:

Actually now TWO companies are doing it the biggest cableco and the biggest telco.
And since they operate by region, in some regions you will have the choice of one capped company-or the other capped company.

Absolutely.... and people in those areas have no choice but to live with capped service.

It will be interesting to see how the FCC weighs in on this....but someone in Washinton will claim "yes, competition is alive, people can still rent as many on-demand movies from their cable provider as they want."

OK, so that's $3.99 each vs $10 from Netflix for as many as I want, but I have to watch the meter to make sure I don't hit the cap...... ?!?

ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2

Re: And there you have it...

I keep asking this, nobody ever answers. Does anyone know if Netflix pays the film industry any $$ for every download? Seems like the visual Napster.
Core0000
Premium
join:2008-05-04
Somerset, KY
Reviews:
·Time Warner VOIP
You know what you just said, reminded me so much of Atlas shrugged, in how things went with the multiple train companies at the beginning of the book, that its not even funny. *Sighs*

Verizon is leading the way trying to innovate, and you have all of these other companies that, rather than trying to advance, or bring new services.. they are sticks in the mud just trying to hold on to the old ways... generally speaking.

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
Huh?

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
said by brianiscool:

AT&T owns part of the backbone.

Just stop it, you clearly don't have a clue about the topic,

DC DSL
There's a reason I'm Command.
Premium
join:2000-07-30
Washington, DC
kudos:2
said by IPPlanMan:

I saw a Verizon crew in my neighborhood in DC running fiber and asked if they were doing Fios installs. They said yes and that we'll likely have Fios this summer!

What's your neighborhood? I'm in western Dupont Circle...we keep hearing late 2012 as the absolutely earliest possible availability, but more likely not until 2014-15, which is when they are required to have it here.
--
"Keep calm and carry on."

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

Re: And there you have it...

I'm in the Northeast area of Dupont. I saw the Verizon crew running fiber on 18th St. NW while walking around.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
I'm in the same general location, and I've heard the same thing. There's also no Fios in the city. It's all in the suburbs in NoVa and Maryland...

DC DSL
There's a reason I'm Command.
Premium
join:2000-07-30
Washington, DC
kudos:2

Re: And there you have it...

said by jjeffeory:

There's also no Fios in the city. It's all in the suburbs in NoVa and Maryland...

There actually is FiOS in the District, but the way the agreement with the city was worked out, the highest-income neighborhoods such as Dupont/West End/Georgetown can't have it until a bunch of the historically low-on-the-list-or-forgotten-altogether ones not only have it available but have also reached designated take rates.
--
"Keep calm and carry on."
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

Re: And there you have it...

Oye, well that sounds familiar. and sucks, cause Comcast's PQ sucks, but their data speeds are ok for me.

Cuchulainn
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts

join:2000-11-09
Chevy Chase, MD
We've had FiOS in MoCo for four plus years now. I love DC - have lived there most of my life - but between the crap schools, even-crappier public services and the persistent gubmint kleptocracy I had to leave. You want FiOs? Move.
rgemeni

join:2002-08-20
Brooklyn, NY
Saw the huge fios pole installed in front of my home 5 months ago. A couple of days ago they had 2 vans working on it. Still waiting but hoping someday soon.
gorehound

join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME
yes this whole thing is a crock of BS and i hope many ddrop ATT and show them we aren't gonna take it.
LIERS !!!

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA
kudos:1

Uh Oh

I wish you would have edited the article to make it more "Geek"-proof. With every Verizon article comes the 30 thread rant about Karlgate and his secret plan to rule the world through Verizon. (NOT Verizon Wireless!)

BHNtechXpert
BHN Staff
Premium,VIP
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL
kudos:148

Re: Uh Oh

said by jmn1207:

I wish you would have edited the article to make it more "Geek"-proof. With every Verizon article comes the 30 thread rant about Karlgate and his secret plan to rule the world through Verizon. (NOT Verizon Wireless!)

Huh?

I'm not seeing any of that here unless you count a several noobs posting about things they know nothing about (eg: the backbone twins....geesh are you guys serious or just kidding...hopefully kidding )

But now that you mention it... it was a bit uncalled for Karl to lump TWC with AT&T and we all know why he did it... BUT...what Karl failed to say in that sentence was that the TWC metered thingy was a limited test and it's over...done..finished...everything back to normal. AT&T on the other hand is not just testing...it will be everywhere and unless people leave them in droves it will become the norm for AT&T users.

If anyone else has called Karl on it GOOD! They should, because using the two together for this example was deliberate especially as it applies to Verizon. He knows that TWC and Verizon are bitter enemies and if he can possibly sway you the reader into buying his pet Verizon with with a cleverly written "article" implying... "Hey look...that evil TWC is doing the same thing as AT&T but Verizon isn't" he will most certainly do it.....in fact he just did.

Apparently others noticed as well....nice catch!
--
"I can’t give you a surefire formula for success, but I can give you a formula for failure: try to please everybody all the time."
~ Herbert Bayard Swope
Network Guy
Premium
join:2000-08-25
New York
kudos:2

Good for them

AT&T and Comcast could use another PR black eye
WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

Re: Good for them

How many eyes to they have ? They already seem to be quite black already.

Alan18

@63.111.21.x

The only real way for the U.S. broadband market to shift...

The first sentence is just untrue. I have the choice between only ATT and Comcast where I am moving soon, and this is a step up from the Comcast only option I am currently enjoying. ISPs can do whatever they want unilaterally and in many to most cases, their captive audience won't have any choice but to grin and bear it.

treichhart

join:2006-12-12

that is funny stuff bc there used to be DSL is getting caps

that is some funny stuff bc there used to be dsl is getting caps what they think they wont put caps on there fios in the future?
Expand your moderator at work

fatness
subtle
Premium,ex-mod 01-13
join:2000-11-17
fishing
kudos:14

Re: that is funny stuff bc there used to be DSL is getting caps

said by treichhart:

that is some funny stuff bc there used to be dsl is getting caps what they think they wont put caps on there fios in the future?

Verizon DSL isn't getting caps (to the best of my knowledge).
»www22.verizon.com/Residential/Hi···t/#plans
--
I don't have a problem!

OneEye

join:2006-04-15
Peachtree City, GA

CAPS

Are there any honest Senators or Representatives in Congress that will deny the lobbyist money and help citizens get a fair deal from DSL providers?

How about removing all restrictions on competing DSL providers stringing fiber wherever they wish and allowing users to vote with their wallets.

Remove all monopolistic protections.

•••

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Verizon should give Verizon the memo

Verizon is also pushing LTE as a home broadband solution for "underserved" areas, and LTE definitely comes with caps and overages.

Maybe the division of Verizon that is touting an unlimited free for all with FiOS should talk to the other division that claims that they need caps and overages to manage the network...

Just remember who said this:

quote:
The problem we have today with flat-based usage is that you are trying to encourage customers to be efficient in use and applications but you are getting some people who are bandwidth hogs using gigabytes a month and they are paying something like megabytes a month. That isnt long-term sustainable. Why should customers using an average amount of bandwidth be subsidizing bandwidth hogs?

Sabre
Di relung hatiku bernyanyi bidadari

join:2005-05-17

Re: Verizon should give Verizon the memo

Remember that the mantra is "Wireless is different."
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Re: Verizon should give Verizon the memo

said by Sabre:

Remember that the mantra is "Wireless is different."

It really is different and that is exactly why it should not be the basis of a national broadband plan in any first world (or second world) country.

OneEye

join:2006-04-15
Peachtree City, GA

It's Time...

It's time for the largest content providers on the Internet to join together and bankroll the development of a truly independent network. (Google, Netflix, Amazon, etc.).

If they don't, the day is coming when their business model will be strangled by the existing ISPs.

••••••••

Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

Verizon offered unlimited on the iPhone but not for long

Verizon offers unlimited on that new LTE phone but admits not for long

Verizon offers unlimited on FiOS....but not for long...they WILL go metered at some point

I have FiOS too and love it

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Re: Verizon offered unlimited on the iPhone but not for long

They claim they use smart network management to punish the heaviest users and they "optimize" videos to alleviate congestion.

Which is worse, IMO.
WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

Fair and Balanced

OMG, Verizon condones ebook piracy !!!!!!!1111
kevin_pink

join:2006-10-15
Bronx, NY

Re: Fair and Balanced

lol

alchav

join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT
Reviews:
·ooma

It's all about the Last Mile.....FTTH Wins!

I told you guys years ago, Verizon Wins with FTTH. Like the article says, Verizon's investment in FTTH let's them handle the Gluttons with more easy. When people start using and wanting more Bandwidth, Verizon can sell their High End Products and people will want it and pay good money. In order for the other Companies to catch up they will have to invest in FTTH.

•••••

antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4

...

I want FIOS in my neighborhood, Verizon.
curls310

join:2007-09-26
Hillsdale, NJ

FIOS rules

Best triple play service to date. Suck it AT&T.

jsinaiko
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Chicago, IL

Verizon in Chicago?

When will Verizon and FIOS come to Chicago (if ever)? All of our major providers have caps - AT&T, Comcast, and even RCN which isn't available in my area anyhow.

Pathetic.
--
Illegitimati non carborundum
zeddlar

join:2007-04-09
Jay, OK
Reviews:
·exede by ViaSat
·McDonald County ..

An idea

Here is a stellar suggestion, insted of up to speed advertising and making people mad when they don't get those speeds and worrying about congestion slowing everything down to the point no one can get the up to speeds why don't we just try this.

Use a computer model to forcast what the speeds on your line would drop to given as much congestion as you could possibly ever see and advertise your service speed at that speed with the words "or faster" after that. then customers are going to see at least the speeds advertised or better at all times and thus you have a very happy customer base and you have no worries about congestion which truth be known, they really don't now, they just overstate what their service can do in the real world and then blame the consumer when their expectations don't pan out and people start yelling. Oh and get rid of outsourced foreign customer support.

Just think, an Ozark hillbilly is smart enough to think of this but the corporate minds can't see past their pocketbooks long enough to out think even me, LMAO.

Just my 2 cents worth.
--
HughesNet elite plan/.74 dish w/1watt trans. / 9000 modem / 3 computers on a linksy's wired network
jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2

Re: An idea

said by zeddlar:

why don't we just try this.

advertise your service speed at that speed with the words "or faster" after that.

Same reason that cars aren't advertised as $50,000, or less! But when you see "Starting at $22,000", it looks like the car is less than half the price, even if the average model ends up going for $40,000.

Consumers (as a whole) are fairly ignorant and most just fall for what the marketing tells them. Many don't understand what the speeds mean in the first place, so they'll just choose the provider that advertises the highest number.

JBond69

@ps.net

Verizon: No Plans To Meter Usage

AT&T wanted to go against progress. South Korea talking about deploying Gigabit broadband to all housewhole by the end of 2012.
AT&T wanted the US consumers to back with dialup. That's ashamed.
The only thing they care about is $$$. The don't care about customer satisfaction at all. By capping user's broadband they will lose all their customers.
Bravo!!! Verizon FIOS not to follow AT&T
In what country are we? Are we in a 3rd world or 1st world country?

Poeple stop using AT&T!!! move Verizon FIOS or other unlimited broadband ISPs!!!
WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

Re: Verizon: No Plans To Meter Usage

OMG !!!! South Korea condones ebook piracy. Bomb them !

/Fair and Balanced
/sarcasm
JBond69

join:2011-03-17
Silver Spring, MD
AT&T wanted to go against progress. South Korea talking about deploying Gigabit broadband to all housewhole by the end of 2012.
AT&T wanted the US consumers to go back with dial up. That's ashamed.
The only thing they care about is $$$. They don't care about customers satisfaction at all. By capping user's broadband they will lose all their customers.
Bravo!!! Verizon FIOS not to follow AT&T
In what country are we? Are we in a 3rd world or 1st world country?

People stop using AT&T!!! move to Verizon FIOS or other unlimited broadband ISPs!!!

djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO

Re: Verizon: No Plans To Meter Usage

You realize most people who have AT&T DSL do not have Verizon as their phone company, so they don't have that choice, right?

My choices are reasonably fast TWC cable (not capped currently but they've made it clear it's coming), reasonably fast AT&T U-verse, and ADSL at 1/5 the speed from unlimited resellers.

I'd like to switch to an unlimited reseller on principle, but I don't think I can shoot myself in the foot to that degree. I like my fast speeds, even if it means I'm "going to hit my cap faster" (reality is that I've never used more than around 200GB in any month). I'm way far from the CO, so none of the CLEC ADSL2+ will ever be an option.

So I'm on the fence about jumping to Time Warner. They've had all sorts of issues in the LA area lately and I can only imagine it will get worse when AT&T's hogs jump ship, too.

*Sigh* ... this sucks.
--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
BTW, there are some SLIM geographies where AT&T and Verizon compete head to head for last mile wireline service.. albeit not much, but it still exists (mostly in the Southern USA). Will be interesting to see how lobsided the customer loyalty against AT&T becomes after the deadline.
milkman82

join:2006-06-19
Lakewood, OH
Happy to see at least one telecommunication company left with honesty! Wish they could come to Cleveland/Lakewood area. However, didn'y AT&T make the same statement with Uverse at some point?....

fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering
Reviews:
·Vonage
·Comcast Digital ..

2 recommendations

I smell shit in this story. Verizon: No PLANS to Meter Usage. Of course they don't have any PLANS to do it. However, Comcast is doing it, AT&T is doing it. Verizon is not going to stand by and not get more $$$.

Verizon is lulling people to sleep and then they will begin their cap nightmare. "Get your services through Verizon. We don't cap because it is not in our PLANS."

A year later: Due to the overwhelming demand for our products, we have to implement caps. Right, it's not in the PLAN.
--
A citizen of The United States of Amnesia. How quickly we forget.

•••••